Author Topic: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT  (Read 52768 times)

Offline s1120

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2019, 07:03:25 AM »
I bought a tragedy of a 900GTS in 2013 and rebuilt it completely as below.  The GT belongs to a friend of mine and we were on a tour of Scotland.
The 864 Bevel engine in any form really is a wonderful creation.  Plenty of power from any revs, completely smooth and sounds glorious.
The downside is that the availability of parts is nothing like as easy as a Guzzi, and the prices are eye watering.  Mdina Italia in UK is a good source of spares, and I found Ian Gowanloch in Australia to be a goldmine of rare parts.
I did blog the rebuild here, but since the demise of photobucket most of the photos have been deleted.
http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/forum/showthread.php?19560-Another-900-GTS-story.-The-Black-Pig

DSC_1847 by Derek0812, on Flickr

What a difference a seat makes.  I don't mind the styling... as was said, so much water under the bridge at this point, makes it look fresh...  but that copper bike's seat.... it looks like its missing something..its like being left visually hanging...  the blue bike seat resolves itself... 
Paul B

Offline Tusayan

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2019, 08:06:07 AM »
Between the original 860GT and the revised 900GTS, Ducati built some GTs with a different seat.




Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2019, 05:05:56 PM »
Mine was just like the blue one in the picture except it was orange. It's one of the very few bikes I've had that I'd like to have back.  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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canuck750

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2019, 06:13:02 PM »
The downside is that the availability of parts is nothing like as easy as a Guzzi, and the prices are eye watering. 

Wow, you sure wern't kidding, I have been going through a couple Ducati specialist web sites including Bevel Heaven. Looks like if you put 'Ducati' in front of the part description the price doubles from the same part for a Guzzi!! 

I hope the 860 GT doesn't need much in the way of propriety Ducati pieces or it won't be in my stable for long. :shocked:
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 11:13:29 PM by canuck750 »

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2019, 06:13:02 PM »

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2019, 06:18:47 PM »
The downside is that the availability of parts is nothing like as easy as a Guzzi, and the prices are eye watering. 

Wow, you sure werne't kidding, I have been going through a couple Ducati specialist web sites including Bevel Heaven. Looks like if you put 'Ducati' in front of the part description the price doubles from the same part for a Guzzi!! 

I hope the 860 GT doesn't need much in the way of propriety Ducati pieces or it won't be in my stable for long. :shocked:

Welcome to the world of old Ducks.  :grin: :grin:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
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Offline Tusayan

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2019, 11:13:07 PM »
US vendors for bevel Duc parts are typically substantially more expensive for the same parts than Australian or UK vendors. 

Offline Roy gardner

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2019, 11:25:23 PM »
Oh dear! They tell us these days that life is about choices. I believe, IMHO, that there are two choices for bevel Ducati ownership.
I dont want to bag the beasts, they are lovely to ride while they are going, I nearly bought a 750GT once. Luckily, after I test rode it, the old boy at the bike shop said "take that Matchless shitter away & cash it in somewhere else & come back with the money & we will talk business". I also rode mates 860s, they made nice power & steered well but they couldnt keep up with my V7 Sport in the corners, they didnt have the ground clearance.
There are now 2 stories of 100,000 mile examples,the one above & my mate's 750 GT, maybe there are more, but they are a big deal for good reason.  We all know the short life big end stories, they are real, and when you know a bit of metallurgy you understand why. I have seen inside some at a workshop run by a good friend, he often showed us the gear shafts with pitting from the rollers pulling the hardening off, then there are the cracked heads, and, and, and.......

So, the two choices; 1, paint it, polish it & put it in the lounge, or 2, if you wish to ride it, biff the bullshit bevel engine in the bin, cut the front frame tubes out & fit a Vincent engine!
It will be cheaper to build a new engine. Buy cases from the VOC spares company then 1200cc squish band heads, barrels, pistons, crank, cam gear & 5 speed box from Terry Prince in Australia & you will have an engine your children & grandchildren will be able to buy spares for in their lifetime, at sensible prices.   PRT  :evil:

 
MGNOC L112
1973  850 GT (sold 1979)
1974  160 Stornello (bought new 1978)
1972 V7 Sport, (bought 1979, still running strong)
1977 Convert (bought 2009)
1974  850T (ComposT, pawned to buy Vincent parts!
1985? LM 1000 (saved from a savage, has become hotrod Convert)

Offline Tusayan

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2019, 11:55:01 PM »
There are a number of 750GTs that have been ridden 100K miles.  They were relatively low powered bikes that didn’t stress the big ends greatly.  The first 860s had a lot more big end issues but these were rectified to a degree by larger big end bearings fitted to later 860 engines.  They last a lot longer if you hold the revs to a reasonable number, in spite of the smooth engine and exhaust bark encouraging you to rev it past redline. My ‘83 Darmah went 40K miles before being torn apart, the big end bearings were still fine at that point but were replaced because the thrust washers were starting to saw slots in the pin. 

I don’t think Vincents are really relevant in relation to Italian v-twins - the bevel Ducati is in another world on the road.  In comparison with a Guzzi, my bevel SS is a better sport bike, my Le Mans a better mile eater, just as legend would have it. Cornering clearance is comparable and both can be improved.  I used to scrape the header pipe on my SS but longer Koni shocks and a NOS tucked-in Hailwood header for the rear cylinder almost eliminated that issue...  I’ve only touched the Hailwood pipe a couple of times  :grin:



 


« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 12:00:13 AM by Tusayan »

Offline tetarabra

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2019, 03:05:04 AM »
Vincent , powerfull tractor with plenty torque.
Goose , fast locomotive.
Duke , wild bronco.

Next can of worms : what oil for bevel Duke ?   :popcorn:

Rough Edge racing

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2019, 06:48:44 AM »
 I had two bought used 750  Ducati 750 GT's between the late 70's and 80's.  I don't remember overreving the engines as the power fell off quickly after about 7200 rpm..They were smooth compared to other bikes of the era.. Acceleration similar to a SOHC Honda 750...Remarkable stability and the slow   handling. After I sold the second Ducati I bought a well used Lemans1...The Guzzi was faster, lumpy at low speeds and smooth at higher RPM's. The Guzzi handled well but I did notice the rear suspension jacking up and down with throttle movements, better rear shocks may have helped... In comparison my 96 900 Monster has far quicker handling,runs  lumpy at low speeds but is much faster than any stock bevel drive..Any year V twin Ducati is a distinct experience and very different than other bikes ,especially Asian bikes..Better or worse is opinion of course.

Offline Groover

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2019, 08:23:21 AM »
Following this thread now. Want to learn more about this generation Ducati models.
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped
1980 Vespa SI Moped
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Offline geodoc

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2019, 12:13:43 PM »
My 750 GT basket saga:

http://forum.bevelheaven.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4543

For parts, got them all over the place. One of the better sources is Harne' in The Netherlands:

https://www.ducaticlassics.com/

He has a very nice lay-out for parts selection based on the parts manual diagrams.

These guys in Germany had some hard to find stuff: https://www.desmo.shop/

And these ones: http://www.unmuessig-moto-italia.de/DUCATI-Koenigswelle.22.0.html

Bevel Rubber too of course: http://www.bevelrubber.com.au/cart/

Also ORSP in Italy: http://www.oldracingspareparts.com/twin-models-3/750-gt-s-ss-1974/


Offline Groover

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2019, 12:20:34 PM »
Wow, I subscribed just in time for the score of the century on links! ^ Thanks!
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped
1980 Vespa SI Moped
http://scooteropolis.com/

canuck750

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2019, 02:13:36 PM »
My 750 GT basket saga:

http://forum.bevelheaven.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4543

For parts, got them all over the place. One of the better sources is Harne' in The Netherlands:

https://www.ducaticlassics.com/

He has a very nice lay-out for parts selection based on the parts manual diagrams.

These guys in Germany had some hard to find stuff: https://www.desmo.shop/

And these ones: http://www.unmuessig-moto-italia.de/DUCATI-Koenigswelle.22.0.html

Bevel Rubber too of course: http://www.bevelrubber.com.au/cart/

Also ORSP in Italy: http://www.oldracingspareparts.com/twin-models-3/750-gt-s-ss-1974/



Thanks George, excellent information. I am potentially diving off the cliff working on a deal to buy a complete but disassembled 1973 Ducati 750 GT. My 860 GT is supposed to arrive This coming Monday.

Jim


Offline Roy gardner

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2019, 03:40:43 PM »
Diving off a cliff?  Could be the start of something really worthwhile  :grin: try this; http://www.bikeexif.com/vincati    now aint that a pretty motorcycle!
These guys will help with new engine cases;  http://new.vincentspares.co.uk/ 
 Terry makes great cranks,  cheaper and stronger than any Bevel crank will ever be;  https://www.classicmotorbikes.com.au/spare-parts/ 
There are some great Vincent engine builders in Canada, I can get you some leads. Oh, and you can have an electric starter hidden under the motor where nobody will see it.   :grin:

I ride my Vincent like my Guzzis, it's done 4000 miles this year, same as my Lemonvert, which I know is not a lot, but that has been rain, hail and shine. I dont treat it like a delicate little flower, its seen 100 Mph and forded salt water. (We barged some bikes to a remote place & rode them home. The barge ramp couldnt get fully ashore, my magnesium racing magneto got douched but never missed a beat. It got douched again with fresh water when I got home)

Think about it, seriously! PRT
MGNOC L112
1973  850 GT (sold 1979)
1974  160 Stornello (bought new 1978)
1972 V7 Sport, (bought 1979, still running strong)
1977 Convert (bought 2009)
1974  850T (ComposT, pawned to buy Vincent parts!
1985? LM 1000 (saved from a savage, has become hotrod Convert)

Offline geodoc

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #45 on: April 24, 2019, 07:16:19 PM »
Should also mention too that Wolfgang Hearter in Nakusp BC Canada is a great source for 60's,70's, & 80's Brembo, Dellorto, CEV, etc. Exellent prices especially now if you're buying with US $'s.  He also just happened to have a 750 GT seat cover kicking around when I was looking for one, so ask him for Ducati-specific stuff too.

http://www.laverda.ca/




.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 07:18:41 PM by geodoc »

Offline Fnq1000

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2019, 09:11:16 PM »
Going to the dark side indeed  :evil: :evil:

The 860GT and now a 750GT surprise package fun times ahead.

In addition to the previously suggested webpages, in have not used but have heard good reports for these Aussie businesses
http://www.reband.com.au/ducati.html Mmmmm Gianelli 2-1 but the Coniti might be more appropriate for the GTs

https://beltandbevel.com.au

And due to the number of bevel Ducati (relatively) check out Australian eBay eg 860GT front mudguard and side cover each a reasonable $75 - no! I'm not the seller

Of all of my bikes, my daughters both say that they prefer the Darmah over everything else. I reckon you will enjoy and you'll end up making money on the 750.

Cheers
Jason

canuck750

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2019, 09:29:35 PM »
Should also mention too that Wolfgang Hearter in Nakusp BC Canada is a great source for 60's,70's, & 80's Brembo, Dellorto, CEV, etc. Exellent prices especially now if you're buying with US $'s.  He also just happened to have a 750 GT seat cover kicking around when I was looking for one, so ask him for Ducati-specific stuff too.

http://www.laverda.ca/


Thanks George,

Wolfgang rebuilt the bottom end of my Laverda SF1 and supplied most of the restoration parts for it + he has provided me with Brembo and CEV parts for years now, he is a prince! I plan on visiting him this spring.

Cheers

Jim Carey
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 06:34:27 AM by canuck750 »

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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canuck750

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2019, 09:33:18 PM »
Interesting 860GT: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1975-ducati-mike-hailwood-recreation-based-on-a-ducati-860-gt/



Looks like he put a fair amount of money into it. Sadly its very hard to sell a custom or tribute for anything close to what has been invested.

Offline Muzz

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2019, 02:15:21 AM »
Vincent , powerfull tractor with plenty torque.
Goose , fast locomotive.
Duke , wild bronco.

Next can of worms : what oil for bevel Duke ?   :popcorn:

I'll bite.

Isn't that the single weight GP50?
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Offline Roy gardner

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2019, 04:42:50 AM »
I'll bite.

Isn't that the single weight GP50?

Muzz, please dont start! I'm sure Tetarabra  knew this would start an avalanche! The 100k Mile 750 GT in Auckland ran on 20W50 high detergent diesel engine oil. Most of us Vincent owners run our roller bigends on modern multigrades same as our plain bearing Guzzii. The 50 weight myth is for Harley types, they own it!   :violent1: PRT
MGNOC L112
1973  850 GT (sold 1979)
1974  160 Stornello (bought new 1978)
1972 V7 Sport, (bought 1979, still running strong)
1977 Convert (bought 2009)
1974  850T (ComposT, pawned to buy Vincent parts!
1985? LM 1000 (saved from a savage, has become hotrod Convert)

Offline tetarabra

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2019, 02:58:21 PM »
Straight versus multigrade oil is also a can of worms on the Vincent side. :evil:
Interesting point is to see when Ducati switched from straight to multigrade oil.
To be continued ...

By the way Pushrodtwin, you bit  :boozing:

Offline Roy gardner

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2019, 03:26:45 PM »
Straight versus multigrade oil is also a can of worms on the Vincent side. :evil:
Interesting point is to see when Ducati switched from straight to multigrade oil.
To be continued ...

By the way Pushrodtwin, you bit  :boozing:

True, & True again.   :laugh: Must have a word with Mr Muzz about gullibility at the Guzzi rally in October, when I am there on my Vincent.  :wink:
MGNOC L112
1973  850 GT (sold 1979)
1974  160 Stornello (bought new 1978)
1972 V7 Sport, (bought 1979, still running strong)
1977 Convert (bought 2009)
1974  850T (ComposT, pawned to buy Vincent parts!
1985? LM 1000 (saved from a savage, has become hotrod Convert)

Offline Muzz

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2019, 05:01:18 PM »
True, & True again.   :laugh: Must have a word with Mr Muzz about gullibility at the Guzzi rally in October, when I am there on my Vincent.  :wink:

Look forward to it. :thumb:  Incidentally,  I knew precisely what I was doing. :evil: :grin:

Bye the bye, my bro also has a Vincent, but the 500 Comet.  Hasn't gone for some years now after he blew the big end.  He has since found out the bike had been hit early in it's life and required a new side cover.  Unfortunately, the seal on the oil spigot was left off :evil: and by the time he found out about it it was too late. :cry:  He is currently putting the finishing touches on his '30 DeSoto, and then I think it will be the Vin that starts getting his attention.
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
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Ya wake up in the morning and it's there

canuck750

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2019, 09:14:00 PM »
The 75 860 Ducati arrived this afternoon, no big surprises or disappointments, it's pretty much as advertised, some things worse than expected and some better.



It has been repainted, looks good from ten feet away, all the sheet metal will get stripped down to bare steel



It has the Aprilia signal lights, same as on the 750S / S3, standard CEV tail light. That whale tail seat is somethin else

Has the stock Brembo dual bleeder caliper and steel rotor, both are tired and need attention. I think period Guzzi's were built to a higher spec, the Duc has steel wheels and painted spokes compared to the Guzzi Borrani rims and stainless spokes

The master cylinder is not stock

The idiot light bezel is not correct for this model and the gauge housing is missing



Conti mufflers and Marzzochi shocks are stock

Engine looks reasonably clean, air boxes are missing, pod filters fitted

Seat pan looks ok, under the tool tray the electrical is mostly stock


The business end



Should be an interesting project, other bikes are ahead on the list needing attention so this gets moved into a corner. Lots of research to come.

My initial thoughts on the Ducati, I would take a nice V7 Sport or Le Mans over a bevel.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 05:30:09 PM by canuck750 »

Offline Groover

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2019, 06:14:49 AM »
Interesting on the Initial thoughts... I can see that though, maybe once you fire that thing up it will trigger a different type of love. I'm after a 77/78 Darmah, but when I look at them in detail (online, never seen one in person), I also conclude that the Guzzi seems to be a better machine overall.... then I hear a Darmah with Contis on YouTube, and then I change my mind again. It's a real emotional rollercoaster  :grin:
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 06:15:12 AM by Groover »
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped
1980 Vespa SI Moped
http://scooteropolis.com/

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2019, 06:48:26 AM »
 Ducati and Guzzi, arguably, stand apart from all other bikes...And  neither one is a substitute for the other....All Ducatis, especially bevel drives are dominated by the engine's mechanical presence...A non riding engineer friend said years ago my 750 bevel drive sounded like an engine inside of an engine..

Offline Glawster

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2019, 08:00:18 AM »

My initial thoughts on the Ducati, I would take a nice V7 Sport or Le Mans over a bevel.

Interestingly I sold the blue GTS (pictured earlier in this thread) in p/x for a V7 Sport.  Chalk and cheese of course!  The V7 Sport is rugged, reliable, better quality etc - I love it.  However, the 900GTS just has such a glorious engine.  Zero vibration and pulls hard from any revs.  You'll love it!  I definitely recommend junking all the electrical system, particularly the ignition.  I fitted a Sachse system and I'm sure that why the bike ran so flexibly and cleanly at all revs.  I had a brand new one in 1978 and it never ran smoothy until 2,800 rpm.
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Offline huub

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Re: Gone to the Dark Side - Ducati 860 GT
« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2019, 08:05:51 AM »
Quote
My initial thoughts on the Ducati, I would take a nice V7 Sport or Le Mans over a bevel.

guzzi's are better built and easier to live with , but if that was the most important, we would all be riding honda's
they both have their charm , but owning both , the guzzi's get 99% of the riding time. .....and i am still not prepared to sell the bevel

 

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