Author Topic: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps  (Read 810 times)

Online sdcr

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New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« on: April 07, 2021, 12:12:51 PM »
We’ve all followed Luaps story regarding his Moto Guzzi purchase, and subsequent ongoing issues.

Well, here is a another manufacturer, that apparently has quality issues, and it’s an expensive brand.

After reading page one, you can skip to page 54 to get to the meat of the problem. It is a long thread.

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=727751&page=55
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 03:52:17 PM by sdcr »
John

Offline Milosh

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2021, 02:45:23 PM »
Not for nothing, but I haven't read Luap's story. Where is it?

I read one thread where he put 17,000 miles on a MGX and another saying he had 600 miles before he traded it in?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 03:04:52 PM by Milosh »
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Online sdcr

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2021, 03:12:31 PM »
Sorry, I cant find the thread. Basically, issues that dogged the bike, until he had enough, and got rid of it.

Not for nothing, but I haven't read Luap's story. Where is it?

I read one thread where he put 17,000 miles on a MGX and another saying he had 600 miles before he traded it in?
John

Offline Milosh

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2021, 03:49:29 PM »
Did he have two of them?
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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2021, 03:49:29 PM »

Online sdcr

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2021, 03:53:08 PM »
Not sure, maybe he will chime in.

Did he have two of them?
John

Online oldbike54

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2021, 04:19:18 PM »
 Only one MGX , he probably doesn't want to be reminded .

 Dusty
We should probably look to the Mayans for advice on how to deal with shortages of gasoline and TP . Those folks had chronic shortages of both.

Offline GeorgiaGuzzi

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2021, 08:05:01 PM »
Not for nothing, but I haven't read Luap's story. Where is it?

I read one thread where he put 17,000 miles on a MGX and another saying he had 600 miles before he traded it in?

IIRC, 17k miles and it ate some very important bits of the motor. Took months and months and months and finally the dealership got his bike fixed. 600 miles after getting it fixed it derped out again, which was the last straw. If I was independently wealthy I woulda bought it and encased it in cement so it couldn’t harm any other riders.

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2021, 03:23:22 AM »
IIRC, 17k miles and it ate some very important bits of the motor. Took months and months and months and finally the dealership got his bike fixed. 600 miles after getting it fixed it derped out again, which was the last straw. If I was independently wealthy I woulda bought it and encased it in cement so it couldn’t harm any other riders.
Strap a parachute on and ride the bastard off a cliff.

Offline Milosh

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2021, 07:03:21 AM »
IIRC, 17k miles and it ate some very important bits of the motor. Took months and months and months and finally the dealership got his bike fixed. 600 miles after getting it fixed it derped out again, which was the last straw. If I was independently wealthy I woulda bought it and encased it in cement so it couldn’t harm any other riders.

I appreciate the clarification. Thank you.
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Online LowRyter

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2021, 07:30:20 AM »
Looks like Porsche is stopping all sales on those models with the 4.0 engine. 

I did glance at the thread.  The car never made 600 miles and was in the shop for weeks at a time on several occasions.  It died on the road for good on the busiest intersection in Houston.  This is $100k+ car.  Funny, how the photos of the car looked so trick when he drove the car home and how frumpy the photos looked when parked DOA.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/porsche-issues-stop-sale-2021-220000051.html

Porsche is recalling 190 of its 2021 Cayman, Boxster, and 718 Spyder models with flat-six engines over a connecting rod that can crack and lead to engine damage, stalling, and potentially a fire. The German automaker has also issued a "stop sale" order on the coupes


Unclear why the dealer changed out the fuel pump and later the entire fuel system when the engine was blowing a conrod. 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 07:34:53 AM by LowRyter »
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Offline mechanicsavant

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2021, 07:50:39 AM »
Not for nothing , I made a living for 25 years fixing “brand new cars” . I don’t care if you’re buying a Porsche, Cadillac, Rolls Royce , Yugo , Tesla etc, They all have a Service Dept. & a warranty. And some will “Fail to live up to their design potential “. IMHO lean production , A lack of “beta testing “ & bean counters are the largest bunch of culprits . Oh and lets not forget engineering faux pas . Huh , it worked great in the lab . Nobody intentionally builds bad product , I hope , but it’s not uncommon for stuff to slip through the cracks . I could go on but that discussion is best left for a rally campfire  :boozing:

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2021, 07:56:11 AM »
 Computer modeling is no replacement for the old "test to destruction" method of determining weak spots .

 Dusty
We should probably look to the Mayans for advice on how to deal with shortages of gasoline and TP . Those folks had chronic shortages of both.

Offline Luap McKeever

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2021, 08:17:55 AM »
Not for nothing, but I haven't read Luap's story. Where is it?

I read one thread where he put 17,000 miles on a MGX and another saying he had 600 miles before he traded it in?

Long story kind of short: Bike was under warranty when I reported it using oil. Tulsa dealer didn't file the claim and went out of business. Favorite uncle died and I forgot all about pursuing it until it was out of warranty. Called Piaggio and they told me to take it to a dealer, pay for diagnostic and they'd honor it and fix it. We agreed to wait until fall when I could go without it since it didn't appear to be too serious. Bike didn't last that long, timing chain tensioner broke and had no choice. Took to closest dealer 4 hours away where it sat for 7 months. Received very little communication from both dealer and Piaggio unless I checked myself. I finally wrote the CEO of Piaggio to get some results. Piaggio did pay for the parts, but not the labor (renege #1). Finally get the bike back and notice it's still using a little bit of oil. Call dealer and he said due to it sitting for so long that the rings might take a bit to reseat. Bike stopped using oil as predicted after about 600 miles but the bad taste was already in my mouth and I never got a "warm fuzzy" again from it and was always wondering when it would leave me stranded again so I traded it for a new Indian (dealer 10 minutes from home). Guy buys the MGX from Indian dealer and rides it 500 miles when oil pump quit. It sat in the same OKC dealer for months again and new customer picks it up and rode for about 2 weeks when the same exact timing chain tensioner broke again. The last I heard, the bike is still in OKC. So,the bike has been in the shop 3/4 of it life.  The first 15,000 miles on it were great. Then boom. I put a total of right at 18K on it, but those last 3K were very troubling.

I really hope that Piaggio ponies up for a new motor for that lemon. The whole thing has left such a bad taste in my mouth that whenever I hear of someone buying a new Guzzi I sort of cringe a little bit. And believe me, that's not easy for me to say since I've ridden Guzzi exclusively since 1996, have over 200,000 miles on them and have promoted the brand loyally for decades. But, Piaggio screwed me over pretty badly so I just cannot see myself being loyal to the new Guzzis or Piaggio for that matter. It's my hope that someone else buys them out and focuses on dealership expansion, quality and customer service. That happens and I'll gladly buy another new one. I still have two, 2001 models that I adore and ride regularly. But I'll never buy another new Piaggio built Guzzi and I'll let anyone that wants to know about my experience.

Now FWIW, the MGX was becoming my favorite Guzzi of all time. I loved the look, the handling, the seating position, everything.
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Online sdcr

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2021, 09:50:46 AM »
I am a hopeless Moto Guzzi addict, I simply loved the design, engine, the history etc. But, when I read about Luap’s (and others) nightmarish experiences with Piaggio and some dealers, I also cringe.

I’d really like a new V7, or if they do the 850 version, but find it difficult to reconcile a purchase, while witnessing these Company travesties.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 09:51:20 AM by sdcr »
John

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2021, 10:13:56 AM »
Statistics...need to really see what % of the motorcycles built are having serious life threatening issues.  Writing off an entire brand due to less than 1% major failures is an emotional reaction, not a fact based on. 

Cannot extrapolate that new V7's, V9's or vV85's are all going to fail just because 1 or 2 MGX's bit the dust.

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2021, 10:15:20 AM »
Computer modeling is no replacement for the old "test to destruction" method of determining weak spots .

 Dusty

Porsche just ran one of their new models for 24 hours at 185 mph non stop....that's pretty good testing for destruction!
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Offline mechanicsavant

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2021, 11:51:21 AM »
Wow 185mph. For 24 Hrs.non stop ! That be some fuel tank!!!

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2021, 12:23:20 PM »
Wow 185mph. For 24 Hrs.non stop ! That be some fuel tank!!!
:boozing: :thumb: :thumb: 

If One needs to be that specific...



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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2021, 03:21:22 PM »
Statistics...need to really see what % of the motorcycles built are having serious life threatening issues.  Writing off an entire brand due to less than 1% major failures is an emotional reaction, not a fact based on. 

Cannot extrapolate that new V7's, V9's or vV85's are all going to fail just because 1 or 2 MGX's bit the dust.
No, the new Guzzis aren't all going to fail. Isn't the real take-away from Luap's tale the fact that Piaggio did NOT step up as it should? And that parts availability is just miserable? And that communication from the dealer was very poor as well?

And this is not the first story about bad treatment from Piaggio, just a rather extreme one.

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2021, 03:38:55 PM »
I haven't seen Luap's old bike in the shop since they replaced the oil pump.   I didn't know the tensioner had gone out again.  So sad.

So far as the Porsche.   I skimmed the beginning, middle and end of the story.  It was sort of a tragedy, the guy ordered the car, had his trade sold in consignment, finally got the car, was so proud of the gorgeus car and it quit on him when he took it home.  He never got more the 500 miles or so on it.  Total nightmare.  Porsche was sending him all this glorious wonderful customer marketing swag while the car was laid up in the shop with all kinds of failure codes and the mechanics were clueless.   

Other than my Honda Accord, all my bikes and even daily driver car were all purchased used.  First, I'd like to know if there were any reliability issues and then find a creampuff with all the recalls done at a depreciated price.  The Accords are generally reliable and keep high resale, so I just opt for a new one heavily discounted with a stick shift (now, no longer available).
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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2021, 04:17:00 PM »
No, the new Guzzis aren't all going to fail. Isn't the real take-away from Luap's tale the fact that Piaggio did NOT step up as it should? And that parts availability is just miserable? And that communication from the dealer was very poor as well?

And this is not the first story about bad treatment from Piaggio, just a rather extreme one.
Not only were Piaggio relatively useless, the repair that was done blew up as well....!

Offline mondtster

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2021, 06:09:18 PM »
Computer modeling is no replacement for the old "test to destruction" method of determining weak spots .

 Dusty

Indeed it is not, but durability testing is still performed by the OEMs. Unfortunately, the testing can sometimes be too structured and problems aren't uncovered until it is too late.

Online sdcr

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2021, 06:27:21 AM »
Paul,

My post was referring to the company that owns Moto Guzzi, and some dealers, not the machine themselves. When I purchase a new vehicle, with a new vehicle warranty, my expectation is that the company and its dealerships will hold up their end of the contract. I’ve purchased a new Moto Guzzi in the past, 2000 V11 Sport. I had a dealer refuse warranty work, even back then.


Statistics... Writing off an entire brand due to less than 1% major failures is an emotional reaction, not a fact based on. 

Cannot extrapolate that new V7's, V9's or vV85's are all going to fail just because 1 or 2 MGX's bit the dust.
John

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2021, 12:28:45 PM »
Not for nothing , I made a living for 25 years fixing “brand new cars” . I don’t care if you’re buying a Porsche, Cadillac, Rolls Royce , Yugo , Tesla etc, They all have a Service Dept. & a warranty. And some will “Fail to live up to their design potential “. IMHO lean production , A lack of “beta testing “ & bean counters are the largest bunch of culprits . Oh and lets not forget engineering faux pas . Huh , it worked great in the lab . Nobody intentionally builds bad product , I hope , but it’s not uncommon for stuff to slip through the cracks . I could go on but that discussion is best left for a rally campfire  :boozing:

But when there is an obvious design flaw & they keep on making them, I find that inexcusable. A certain BMW timing chain tensioner comes to mind. History is full of this stuff because egos won't let them admit mistakes. I belong to a Fiero forum and one of the members has a BMW shop out East. He flat out told us to NEVER buy a BMW without running it past him 1st, so we would not be getting stuck with one of their many lemon models.
No trees were harmed by the conveyance of this message, but a lot of electrons were seriously disturbed.

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Re: New vehicle ownership sage, that rivals Luaps
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2021, 03:00:24 PM »
Paul,

My post was referring to the company that owns Moto Guzzi, and some dealers, not the machine themselves. When I purchase a new vehicle, with a new vehicle warranty, my expectation is that the company and its dealerships will hold up their end of the contract. I’ve purchased a new Moto Guzzi in the past, 2000 V11 Sport. I had a dealer refuse warranty work, even back then.

Thanks Sdcr!  All clear.... :thumb: :thumb:
Paul R
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