Author Topic: V85tt swingarm movement  (Read 509 times)

Online Sye

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V85tt swingarm movement
« on: June 20, 2021, 11:53:06 AM »
Hello, I have been doing a bit of cleaning with my V85tt on the centre stand. If I push or pull the swingarm I get around 5 - 6mm (1/4") movement side to side. Is this normal as I've never owned a bike that does this?
Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2021, 12:48:09 PM by Sye »

Offline Huzo

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2021, 01:16:58 PM »
No it’s not normal and can be fixed.
The left pivot pin has a lock nut, if this is loosened the pin can be wound in to remove the slop and the nut re-tightened.


It is in behind the foot peg bracket which must be removed



There is a thread here called “V85 facelift”. If you look at reply #30, you’ll see there is a comment on this very thing.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 02:03:41 AM by Huzo »

Online Sye

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2021, 01:35:10 PM »
Thanks Huzo, will sort it tomorrow. Sye

Offline Huzo

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2021, 01:45:36 PM »
Thanks Huzo, will sort it tomorrow. Sye
:thumb:

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2021, 01:45:36 PM »

Offline tazio

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2021, 04:48:28 PM »
Huzo, you definitely have done more to advance/spread knowledge on the V85 than anyone else I know. Glad we've got you here. :thumb:
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Offline Huzo

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2021, 06:04:21 PM »
Huzo, you definitely have done more to advance/spread knowledge on the V85 than anyone else I know. Glad we've got you here. :thumb:
Thanks mate, but I started from a low base....

Online Sye

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2021, 03:04:10 AM »
Huzo, I have two questions. Can I remove the pins completely one at a time to grease them? The manual says 50nm torque for the lock nut and R/H pivot pin but no mention of the L/H pivot pin. Is this just a snug fit without any preload?

Thanks, Sye

Offline Huzo

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2021, 05:38:38 AM »
Huzo, I have two questions. Can I remove the pins completely one at a time to grease them? The manual says 50nm torque for the lock nut and R/H pivot pin but no mention of the L/H pivot pin. Is this just a snug fit without any preload?

Thanks, Sye
Yes Sye.
The right pin can be withdrawn independently of the left, but I would advise that you support the weight of the swingarm assembly as you withdraw the pin.
If you allow the assembly to drop at all, you will be placing a cruel twisting motion on the other (left) pin.
Here’s the thing..
No demons await you if you want to take both pins out, but as you’ll guess, the swingarm will want to thrash around, so as you suggest one at a time will be good.
When you re-fit the right one after applying some grease to the pin and thread, snug it down as specified, there is no pre load on this one...(use a good anti seize on the pin because you have steel into aluminium, the lubrication of the bearings is already done, they are sealed units..).
Over to the left...
Loosen the nut and wind the pin out, clean and grease prior to re assembly.
Note that the spigot on the pin is a parallel sliding fit into the swingarm bearing, it is NOT a tapered roller and the winding in of the pin is only to remove the end float that you have noticed. The bearings are not adjustable, when you discover wear and subsequent play, give them the arse and put new ones in.
As you wind the pin inwards, you will feel the play reducing to eventually zero, do not slam the pin hard against the bearing, it will only serve to bugger it up...
A nice touch by hand will serve you well and nip the locknut up behind...
Happy days....(I wish everything was that simple...).
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 08:49:28 AM by Huzo »

Online Sye

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2021, 06:45:48 AM »
Thanks Huzo, I have a plan now. Remove wheel and shock bottom linkage, use wooden blocks to support both sides and remove one at a time. I have some Loctite 8012 moly paste that I will use to lubricate both sides. PITA really on a three-month old bike but hey-ho, that's life and at least I know it's been done.

Thanks again for your help, you are a gent.  :thumb:

Offline Huzo

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2021, 08:47:12 AM »
Thanks Huzo, I have a plan now. Remove wheel and shock bottom linkage, use wooden blocks to support both sides and remove one at a time. I have some Loctite 8012 moly paste that I will use to lubricate both sides. PITA really on a three-month old bike but hey-ho, that's life and at least I know it's been done.

Thanks again for your help, you are a gent.  :thumb:
Yeah mate, you obviously are at liberty to pull the pins if you so desire, but remember that the lubrication is in the sealed races. The interface between the spigot and the race is not where the movement occurs.
If all you want to do is get rid of the end float, then taking off the left hand foot peg mounting bracket, loosening the lock nut and lightly nipping up the adjustable spigot, will fill your needs.
I did not really get why you wanted to pull them in the first place, but thought I’d give you the pointers anyway...

Are you sure you are not confusing a perceived need to do the V85 pivot bearings, with the very real need to do the ones that are neglected from the factory in the Norges/Griso’s etc...?

Online Sye

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2021, 09:06:15 AM »
Thanks Huzo, I did get the impression that Guzzi's in general were lacking greases from the factory. I will take your advice and just do the left side. Much easier anyway  :grin:

Thanks, Sye

Offline Huzo

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2021, 09:14:20 AM »
Thanks Huzo, I did get the impression that Guzzi's in general were lacking greases from the factory. I will take your advice and just do the left side. Much easier anyway  :grin:

Thanks, Sye
:thumb:

Online Sye

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2021, 11:34:33 AM »
Ha ha, sounds easy but after an hour of trying to get one bolt out I've given up for today. Managed to get the front inner bolt out of the footrest hanger using a long extension bar from the other side. Can't budge the back inner one though. Luigi must have used a tube of thread lock on it.

Will heat it up tomorrow to try and soften the threadlock then have another go at it.

Never worked on a Guzzi before and may never again after this.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 02:06:18 PM by Sye »

Online Off @ 90

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2021, 02:03:31 PM »
Good idea to pull both shouldered  pins out  one at a time .The factory don't grease them and they corrode into inner race of ball bearing . The V7s have a shim washer on RH side only not sure about V85 .
Duncan

Offline Huzo

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2021, 12:55:49 AM »
Good idea to pull both shouldered  pins out  one at a time .The factory don't grease them and they corrode into inner race of ball bearing . The V7s have a shim washer on RH side only not sure about V85 .
Hmmm.
Although that is at odds with my final comment, there’s no doubt that what you suggest is the best way to go.
Especially if you enjoy the buggerising around... :thumb:

Online Sye

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2021, 02:03:55 AM »
Hmmm.
Although that is at odds with my final comment, there’s no doubt that what you suggest is the best way to go.
Especially if you enjoy the buggerising around... :thumb:

How did you get the inner footplate bolts out Huzo? I'm having a bugger of a job getting at them and they've been thread locked to within an inch of their life.

Offline Huzo

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2021, 02:40:23 AM »
How did you get the inner footplate bolts out Huzo? I'm having a bugger of a job getting at them and they've been thread locked to within an inch of their life.
I’d have to be out there doing it to be certain Sye, but if memory serves, one of them is a 13 or 14 and I used a long extension from the opposite side.
I seriously don’t recall it being too bad, I would say so if it was.
In addition to the three outward facing ones



I seem to recall one 13 or 14 mm hex head bolt lower down near the foot peg with the head on the back.
I’ll go out and have a look before it gets too dark and take a shot if I can.
Give me your cell# or ring me on +61437070946
See if this helps..
https://youtu.be/F2LWr9wBoCs
« Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 02:56:10 AM by Huzo »

Online Sye

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2021, 04:54:35 AM »
Thanks Huzo, I think they must have changed from hex heads to 6mm allen heads and that's the problem. It's difficult to get sufficient purchase on them as they are on the inside and access is very restricted. I will give it another severe looking at this afternoon.

Thanks for your help. Sye

Offline Huzo

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2021, 06:40:37 AM »
Thanks Huzo, I think they must have changed from hex heads to 6mm allen heads and that's the problem. It's difficult to get sufficient purchase on them as they are on the inside and access is very restricted. I will give it another severe looking at this afternoon.

Thanks for your help. Sye
For that type of thing, you can cut a suitable length of Allen key and get a socket on the end.
I just thought that if you still have the cat. converter on your bike, then you probably are a bit restricted for room.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 06:42:51 AM by Huzo »

Online Trialsman

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2021, 07:35:35 AM »
Thanks Huzo, I think they must have changed from hex heads to 6mm allen heads and that's the problem. It's difficult to get sufficient purchase on them as they are on the inside and access is very restricted. I will give it another severe looking at this afternoon.

Thanks for your help. Sye

That is the case with the 2021 where it is now an M10 socket head.  I tried cutting down an Allen with the grinder but, as Huzo said, they are Loctited too well.  I next used an Allen on a socket with a long extension. That is good for some but the right side needs a universal also and there is little room.  It took much longer to remove them than expected.  I bought four stainless flange-headed bolts to go back in their place.  Installation was a breeze from underneath with a common wrench. By the way, when I tore down the steering head the bearings had oil, at most, on the races so they got packed with the Belray waterproof grease.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 11:27:56 AM by Trialsman »
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Online Sye

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2021, 08:15:53 AM »
YIPPEEEEE, it's done! 3 hours to remove two M10 allen head bolts, 5 mins to remove the M10 & M12 footpeg hanger bolts and 2 mins to adjust the bearing pin. Heating the hanger bracket helped to soften the thread lock.

Somewhere in Mandello del Lario is a podgy Italian gentleman sitting in his underpants with a large bowl of pasta. Every now and again he looks up and chuckles to himself for no apparent reason. His family think he is going senile but he knows better. He's the man who changed the design of the inner bolts from hex head to allen key. Every now and again he pictures the poor sods with skinned knuckles and swearing under their breath. This gives him great pleasure, so he gives a wry smile followed by a chuckle. The b@st@rd!

Looking at the setup it seems that if the pin isn't located properly, then the locknut cannot do it's job? The locknut is blind and only moves down the thread about 10mm, so if the pin is too far out then it can't lock against the shoulder. It took a full 2 turns to seat properly.

Thanks for the help and advice everyone, it's much appreciated. Special thanks to Huzo for his time on the upside down side of the world.

Offline Huzo

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2021, 11:54:09 AM »
Scousers rule.
 :bow: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
« Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 11:56:58 AM by Huzo »

Online Muzz

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Re: V85tt swingarm movement
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2021, 04:06:58 PM »

Somewhere in Mandello del Lario is a podgy Italian gentleman sitting in his underpants with a large bowl of pasta. Every now and again he looks up and chuckles to himself for no apparent reason. His family think he is going senile but he knows better. He's the man who changed the design of the inner bolts from hex head to allen key.

His name is Luigi; we who are long in the teeth know he is also the one who lost his grease pot early in his career. :evil:  He helped design the hydro engine and the first of the 8 valve motors among his other notable achievements.
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