A question for the smart guys MC

[Penderic]

I can see where this is going.


The new 2066 Triumphs.

[oldbike54]

I can see where this is going.


The new 2066 Triumphs.

 Nope , the Doctor rides a modern Bonnie , although his particular model isn't available to the public. The average rider can't be trusted with a motorbike capable of going straight up 

  Dusty

[johnr]

Fascinating thread.

Most of the comments I was considering have already been said.

I think that, sadly,  we are living in the last days of internal combustion  engines (or hydrocarbon fueled engines off every stripe) and that means it has probably reached, or nearly reached,  it's peak.

There are a host of reasons for why this is so which I have just this second decided not to bother listing. The question is really what will replace it and when. At this stage it looks like electricity will be the thing, but it may not be in the end. 

Battery technology is key here and a breakthrough in that field will advance the electric vehical very rapidly indeed. When will that happen? Who knows. It could be 10 years away, it could be tomorrow.

The other problem facing electric vehicles is the energy required.  Those batteries will have to be charged. Think of the energy required for the operation of all the internal combustion vehicles in the world. (and lets include ships and aircraft here) It's enormous! If we are to replace it with electricity, that electricity will have to be generated somehow. How is that to be done? The fission reactor power station won't do. The fuel from them is really quite rare on the planet, far less plentiful than oil for example, and there is a really nasty waste problem with them. (Not to mention the potential for unpleasant accidents) Fusion reactors would answer if we could figure a way to control the process. That could happen tomorrow too, or never.

I do believe that faster than light travel is possible. In my physics classes we were taught that it is impossible for anything to actually reach the speed of light and were shown mathematical proofs of this statement. But that is obviously false because light itself reaches it's own speed. I don't think the possible methods under discussion  for exceeding light speed are a go though.

 I don't think we are thinking about it in the right way. If we think of the universe and all things in it as a system of energy (an idea that physics supports) and we then vibrate in harmony with the frequencies of a particular point in the universe, would we not then be at that point? Maybe. Maybe we have to evolve to the next level to understand this well enough to get a technology out of it. Maybe we would not much enjoy the process of such evolution. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Given the plethora of things lining up to give mankind a sharp clip to the left ear (resulting no doubt in a bad case of tinnitus) our future transportation may well be biological legs. Either our own or those of a horse.

[oldbike54]

 John r , Asimov predicted something very similar .

  Dusty

[Orange Guzzi]

like this but with one wheel.

            I see this and other versions of the hoover board.  The side by side works good, tight turns, forward reverse.

[Triple Jim]

            I see this and other versions of the hoover board.  The side by side works good, tight turns, forward reverse.

I hadn't heard that one yet, but I like it.  Since the Hover Boards seem to suck so much, I assume.   

[kirby1923]

I do believe that faster than light travel is possible. In my physics classes we were taught that it is impossible for anything to actually reach the speed of light and were shown mathematical proofs of this statement. But that is obviously false because light itself reaches it's own speed. I don't think the possible methods under discussion  for exceeding light speed are a go though.



I believe what Alberts theory states that you can't EXCEED light speed.
We are already getting very close to light speed in the big collider at Cern.

:-)

[oldbike54]

I believe what Alberts theory states that you can't EXCEED light speed.
We are already getting very close to light speed in the big collider at Cern.

:-)

 Doesn't my $3.00 LED flashlight already ... OH , never mind 

  Dusty

[Triple Jim]

I believe what Alberts theory states that you can't EXCEED light speed.

Well, he also said that it would take an infinite amount of energy to get to the sped of light, and that you'd have infinite mass if you succeeded.

[Penderic]

Hover boards imports into England were halted this week due to reports that up to 75% have problems with their lithium batteries overheating and many fires reported.



How about making a battery that uses "dark energy", the Casimiri effect and never have to recharge?
http://129.164.179.22/apod/ap151206.html

[johnr]

I do believe that faster than light travel is possible. In my physics classes we were taught that it is impossible for anything to actually reach the speed of light and were shown mathematical proofs of this statement. But that is obviously false because light itself reaches it's own speed. I don't think the possible methods under discussion  for exceeding light speed are a go though.



I believe what Alberts theory states that you can't EXCEED light speed.
We are already getting very close to light speed in the big collider at Cern.

:-)

He may have said that, and it's close enough, but it's not what his maths says.

We can approach the speed of light very closely indeed, but according to his maths we can not actually reach it. It's a bit like continuously halving an apple. No matter how small the remainder is when you halve it, there is always a bit left when you halve it again.
(frinstince, as you approach the speed of light the energy required to accelerate you approaches infinity. That's rather a lot!)

The effects of approaching light speed seem to me to imply that we actually become light energy, but as everything is energy to begin with so WTF? My head starts to hurt at that point.

[kirby1923]

He may have said that, and it's close enough, but it's not what his maths says.

We can approach the speed of light very closely indeed, but according to his maths we can not actually reach it. It's a bit like continuously halving an apple. No matter how small the remainder is when you halve it, there is always a bit left when you halve it again.
(frinstince, as you approach the speed of light the energy required to accelerate you approaches infinity. That's rather a lot!)

The effects of approaching light speed seem to me to imply that we actually become light energy, but as everything is energy to begin with so WTF? My head starts to hurt at that point.

I'm sorry John the math actually proves (never been disproved) that we cannot EXCEED light speed. Been a long time since I have been heavy in the calculations of relativity.
The math is hard to really comprehend for the layman but not only did it  prove to be right it proved Newton wrong  on the matter of gravity, the weak force. No star wars stuff here no pipe dreams just numbers.
Believe what you want!

No point in going further in my mind.

I have always enjoyed my time in NZ..now that is a dream come true

:-)















   

[Kentktk]

But take all this with a grain of salt.  I ride a V7 Stone.  So that's the kind of stuff you'd expect me to say, right?

Right, it`s exactly what would be expected.

[johnr]

I'm sorry John the math actually proves (never been disproved) that we cannot EXCEED light speed. Been a long time since I have been heavy in the calculations of relativity.
The math is hard to really comprehend for the layman but not only did it  prove to be right it proved Newton wrong  on the matter of gravity, the weak force. No star wars stuff here no pipe dreams just numbers.
Believe what you want!

No point in going further in my mind.

I have always enjoyed my time in NZ..now that is a dream come true

:-)

Well the only physics text I can easily lay my hands on is a school one which doesn't go into the question so yes, I'll let it go. I'll bet you a chocolate fish though that I'm right.

Sounds like you have been here quite often?

[pikipiki]

How much harder could you accelerate within the bounds of what we call a motorcycle? GP bikes need anti wheelie controls already and could easily put out 300 hp, but all seem to have stabilized at 250-265.

How much faster can you corner when your knees are on the deck and your elbow is getting there too?

This is on a track,we've been beyond what is sensible for street use  for 20 years.

A lot faster because the electric motor can produce maximum torque from a stand still and the control unit can adjust the torque much more precisely than can be achieved with an IC engine. Acceleration can be at the maximum all the way.

[Cam Lay]

Self-driving cars will have to be hooked up to some sort of infrastructure, I suspect. It'll be advertised as a convenience: avoid the traffic, take the smoothest or most energy-efficient route, save time. Give up just a little bit of autonomy for convenience, one increment at a time.

I'm not sure I am comfortable with that path. Your mileage, and the number of fellow travelers permitted on your road, may vary.

Watch out for nibbling ducks,
C

[pikipiki]

Self-driving cars will have to be hooked up to some sort of infrastructure, I suspect. It'll be advertised as a convenience: avoid the traffic, take the smoothest or most energy-efficient route, save time. Give up just a little bit of autonomy for convenience, one increment at a time.

I'm not sure I am comfortable with that path. Your mileage, and the number of fellow travelers permitted on your road, may vary.

Watch out for nibbling ducks,
C

Absolutely,

As we move from a commodity base economy to a service based economy, one in which you don't buy media but you stream media, you don't store your wealth in dollars but in bit coins governments will not be able to gather enough in taxation from purchase and income taxes. Focusing on property tax would only force more into renting or even trailers. You got to ask how will governments be able to tax their citizens. On movement the one thing which is increasingly measurable.

[Kentktk]

Everyone who stores their stuff in the Cloud will wake up someday to a nightmare.

[jas67]

....  our future transportation may well be biological legs. Either our own or those of a horse.

Queue the news stories of the hay shortage, and climate change caused by the methane emitted by billions of horses.    Then there is the rising E-coli levels in ground water from the runoff of all the horse poo left on the roads.

[oldbike54]

 Fellas , I'm gonna suggest that speculating on where motorbikes might be in the future is an interesting and difficult enough topic W/O delving into what future tax bases and money policy will be .
Something tells me even the real experts on those two subjects can't even predict 

  Dusty

[johnr]

Queue the news stories of the hay shortage, and climate change caused by the methane emitted by billions of horses.    Then there is the rising E-coli levels in ground water from the runoff of all the horse poo left on the roads.

A situation that brings about our return to biological transport would also in all likelihood bring about a vast reduction in population figures, to the point where we will be fortunate if mankind survives at all, so such problems, even news reports, are unlikely. Certainly not something to look forward to, but it's happened before and there are any number of things that could cause such a disaster some of which appear more or less immanent. 

[oldbike54]

 Back to the future (sorry, bad pun) of motorbikes . I think Lucydad's mention of ergonomically adjustable MC's is something to consider . One bike capable of being a comfortable standard and that can morph into a more sporting setup would be interesting .

  Dusty

[kirby1923]

Well the only physics text I can easily lay my hands on is a school one which doesn't go into the question so yes, I'll let it go. I'll bet you a chocolate fish though that I'm right.

Sounds like you have been here quite often?

Yes John I have had many debates and discussions on Albert's theory while a university student and they continue.

Rarely delve into the math these days.

I have a relative that is a professor of physics at a university that keeps me up on the latest developments.

I respect your views and I guess we all may be wrong or right..time will tell.

cheers,
mike

[jas67]

A situation that brings about our return to biological transport would also in all likelihood bring about a vast reduction in population figures, to the point where we will be fortunate if mankind survives at all, so such problems, even news reports, are unlikely. Certainly not something to look forward to, but it's happened before and there are any number of things that could cause such a disaster some of which appear more or less immanent.

So, you're talking about the Apocalypse then.     I'm not sure I'd want to survive such an event anyway, in which case, I won't worry about it.   
 

[Penderic]

Two speeds.

     

One forward, one back.

[keuka4884]

Welp, I'm late to this topic but here's my 2 cents. In 10 years it will not be possible to buy a gasoline powered motorcycle. Battery technology will have buried the piston engine. Elon Musk, Toyota, the Koreans and the Chinese are all putting big money into battery development. More than half the worlds new power plants built last year do not run on fossil fuels. The OPEC countries see the writing on the wall. So if you're a piston head, enjoy the ride. Your time (my time too) is OVAH. Electric vehicles are the future, and the future is fast approaching. Electric motorcycles will far outperform their gasoline cousins. Motorcycles will continue to be a source of great pleasure, so will continue to sell well.
Tires will have a majority of silicone in them. Rubber will slowly fade into history.
Due to battery development, small, boutique motorcycle manufacturers will be able to compete with the big boys for market share. We will see more manufacturers on the playing field.
   

[Penderic]

In the perfect world of the near future, I can easily see a local print shop spitting out a 3d printed motorcycle made of bio-deegradeable, recycleable pulped wood fibers and glue.

Just dont get it wet too much.

[molly]

In ten years time I would like to see a minimum of 100mpg for all vehicles. Let's face it modern bikes are full of gizmos but still are no better than  previous machines on fuel economy.
 Or a long overdue practical replacement for the piston engine not using fossil fuels would be better.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  I would be happy with the simple type 74 Imperial speeder bike as they were used in the Star Wars movie
 "Return of the Jedi".
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXj8VMfXsJU

[johnr]

Jim I think I would prefer this one, though I'm not sure where I would stow the tent and the saddle bags.


What I do see happening is a melding of the scooter and the motorcycle. This is happening to some extent now. We see what would still be classified as scooters appearing now with bigger engines and much increased capabilities. I see this trend continuing until there is no distinction between the two.

This has been attempted before to a limited extent by various feet forward one offs and sometimes attempts at manufacture.

An early attempt


A custom one (I think)


Most of these were hamstrung from the outset by lousy styling and in many cases by some built in impracticalities. The most successful was probably the Quasar which went into production for a while. It did not live up to it's looks though due to the choice of a low powered Reliant car engine. A strange choice and a pity.

The Quasar


I see such things in our future as we finally leave the over developed bicycle frame behind. Center hub steering is a good thing too.

Something like this perhaps.


It could come with or without full enclosure, maybe electric powered, or, as an interim measure diesel-electric? The electric part maybe incorporated in the back wheel?