V7 Map Comparison - GT vs Beetle Map (GuzziDiag)

[ponti_33609]

Just reporting for those that might find this useful.

Bike - 2014 V7R

I purchased Mistral Slip-ons a few months after purchasing my V7.  The stock looked really bulky to me and I had previous experience with Mistrals on my V11Sport  several years back.  For ~$500 I believe the are probably the best bang for the buck.  Especially where there are not true power upgrade gains and is mostly a weight, sound and aesthetic benefit only.

AFter installing the Mistrals I noticed a slight pop on deceleration.  Mistrals seem to be the one exhaust you can "get-away" with keeping the factory map.  I noticed no change in my V11 when I installed them as an FYI.

Because life has been good to us, my better half said to get a new map to help with the new exhaust.  I saw posts on GuzziDiag but not sure I saw at that time they were doing anything with the V7.  I didn't want to mess with removing "stuff" from my bike and sending off so I purchased their Flash tool at a cost of $495 plush shipping so I think it cam to total of $515 when complete. The process involved me reading my existing map and sending it off via email and a new, enhanced map was returned.

GT Map-  I immediately felt the bike ran smoother and seemed as if the throttle response was "quicker".  I was still experiencing the slight popping as well (but less than the stock map) and I think the bike took slightly longer to warm up than with the original Guzzi map.  GT sent me second map to try but unfortunately it seemed to be about the same.  Although this is probably not true, it felt like the stumbling on initial start-up seemed to worsen over time.  I reached back to GT and they suggested I unplug the O2 sensors.  I asked if that could be done thru the map and not sure if I really got a response I understood but in the end unplugging was the advise.  Note:  I didn't do this which may have corrected my issue.

Recently - I read here that GuzziDiag (Beetle) had produced a map for the 1 TB V7.  For "fun" I reached out to Mark (Beetle) and asked him about it.  I described what I did.  To my surprise having never spoken with him nor do I post here as frequently as I did in the past, that he said, buy these cables, click this link and see if this one is any better.  We made a gentlemen's agreement that if I preferred his map we would work out payment arrangements.

Beetle Map - I installed his map earlier this week.  To my surprise all of my cold stating issues were gone.  Did he disconnected the O2 sensors in the map?  I am guessing so.  I also noticed his map was even smoother than the GT map.  Subjective and maybe it wasn't but it felt as if it was.  I did still notice just a slight pop every so often on deceleration.  Additionally, I felt like the throttle response might have been slightly less than the GT map but this might also be that I felt that way due to the over-all more smooth feel to this map.  Anyway, I reached out to Mark who quickly shot me one more map to try.  The smoothness was still there, no pop at all and the throttle felt a bit quicker (again, I might be imagining :>).

Conclusion - Both maps are better than the stock map.  I believe even without a change of exhaust you would benefit.  Both folks were easy enough to work with although GT seemed a bit busier at times than Mark....but overall no complaints.  I may be the only person to have run both maps back to back and why I wanted to post. 

Which map am I sticking with?  The GuzziDiag/Beetle map.   I believe it is better in my V7.  Feels smoother, I didn't need to unplug sensors and no pop at all on decel.  This is a bit different than my Mistral statement where I claim it is the best bang for your buck.  The Beetle map at $100 plus $40 for cables at Amazon versus $515 for the GT is the best bang for the buck....the difference is the map seems better to me as well.  It wins on both counts.  So for the average "Joe" you can pocket the $375 for something else to buy and be super happy with the GuzziDiag tools and map.

[Kev m]

 

Thanks for writing that up.

[Andy1]

Did you try running with the standard map and unplugging the lambda sensors under the side covers?
Costs nothing and has worked well on my 2014 1TB V7 Stone with Mistrals (dB killers left in place).  Once I was happy that this mod worked (I had the bike on a dyno) I unscrewed the lambda sensors from the exhausts and fitted stainless steel bungs in the holes.  Total cost �10.

The bike has run like that for about 1500 miles.  Much smoother pick up, no hesistancy, and no popping on deaccel.  Fuel consumption has not changed - and I can hold a higher gear as the bike runs better mid-range.

Above about 4000rpm the bike was always OK - I believe that at higher revs the ECU runs open circuit so removing the lambdas would have no effect.

Removing the lambdas richens the mixture.  I can't help but think that the lambdas were fitted as a bodge to get the bike through Euro 3 emisson laws and removing them simply puts the bike back to how MG originally designed it.

Andy1

[ponti_33609]

Did you try running with the standard map and unplugging the lambda sensors under the side covers?
Costs nothing and has worked well on my 2014 1TB V7 Stone with Mistrals (dB killers left in place).  Once I was happy that this mod worked (I had the bike on a dyno) I unscrewed the lambda sensors from the exhausts and fitted stainless steel bungs in the holes.  Total cost �10.

The bike has run like that for about 1500 miles.  Much smoother pick up, no hesistancy, and no popping on deaccel.  Fuel consumption has not changed - and I can hold a higher gear as the bike runs better mid-range.

Above about 4000rpm the bike was always OK - I believe that at higher revs the ECU runs open circuit so removing the lambdas would have no effect.

Removing the lambdas richens the mixture.  I can't help but think that the lambdas were fitted as a bodge to get the bike through Euro 3 emisson laws and removing them simply puts the bike back to how MG originally designed it.

Andy1

I didn't do that with the stock map and I didn't do a re-map with Mistrals on my V11.  I have just read that a remap, even with stock pipes will run much cooler.  Maybe others much more intelligent about these things than I am can chime in if this is actually as good as changing maps.

[Andy1]

Hi Ponti,
Modern engines always seem to be set up too weak (emissions) and remapping / removing the lambdas richens the mixture - which will cool the engine down.
Remapping is of course the better solution as a remap can modify the air / fuel ratio at all engine speeds and loads.......and no doubt would be required if less restrictive silencers or air filter were used......but the stock map with lambdas removed seems to work well when Mistrals are fitted to a 1TB V7(and will probably work well with standard pipes, but I have not tried that combination).
 
Just seems a simply mod for people to try before remapping.  I am sure I am not the first to do it...I think it was Kev who suggested I try it?

Andy1

[fotoguzzi]

$515 for the Guzziidiag?
I didn't want to mess with removing "stuff" from my bike and sending off so I purchased their Flash tool at a cost of $495 plush shipping so I think it cam to total of $515 when complete. The process involved me reading my existing map and sending it off via email and a new, enhanced map was returned.

or did you mean the GuzziTech ?

[Kev m]

Foto - yeah he wrote that a little confusing. He was saying why he originally decided to go with GuzziTech, presumably once Guzzitech stopped having people remove their entire throttle body and mail it across the country and started using a Rexxer reflash tool.

Hi Ponti,
Modern engines always seem to be set up too weak (emissions) and remapping / removing the lambdas richens the mixture - which will cool the engine down.

<snip>
 
Just seems a simply mod for people to try before remapping.  I am sure I am not the first to do it...I think it was Kev who suggested I try it?

Andy1

Hi Ponti,
Modern engines always seem to be set up too weak (emissions) and remapping / removing the lambdas richens the mixture - which will cool the engine down.

It's a bit of an oversimplification (which I don't tend to like).

Yes, sure, modern engines ARE set up lean AT POINTS IN THE MAP. But not everywhere in the map. And that doesn't necessarily translate to weak, since the best power is made on the lean side of the balance between lean and rich. Remember too rich wastes fuel, contaminates oil, and yeah it runs cool, but sometimes cool is bad (winter/cold-damp climates etc.).

Hi Ponti,
Just seems a simply mod for people to try before remapping.  I am sure I am not the first to do it...I think it was Kev who suggested I try it?

Probably wasn't me. I don't like removing parts of a system that are operating correctly, even if many feel that it is a bridge too far.

Sure you can eliminate the lambda's from a system and it may run well, but it will likely not run AS efficiently and it WILL pollute more. I just don't get behind that logic, not if it can be made to run well within confines of the map and sensors (which I think hundreds of millions of cars proved a long time ago).

I think too many people just want to tinker with their bikes to say they've tinkered with their bikes.

I also think half the "benefits" people claim about smoothness and power increases comes from fooling themselves. Not saying that increases in smoothness and performance don't occur, I just think some people make mountains out of mole hills.

So it likely wasn't me that suggested it, unless it was a quick diagnostic check.

[ponti_33609]

Foto - yeah he wrote that a little confusing. He was saying why he originally decided to go with GuzziTech, presumably once Guzzitech stopped having people remove their entire throttle body and mail it across the country and started using a Rexxer reflash tool.

Thx Kev, yes, I am a terrible writer......that $515 was fro GT.




It's a bit of an oversimplification (which I don't tend to like).

Yes, sure, modern engines ARE set up lean AT POINTS IN THE MAP. But not everywhere in the map. And that doesn't necessarily translate to weak, since the best power is made on the lean side of the balance between lean and rich. Remember too rich wastes fuel, contaminates oil, and yeah it runs cool, but sometimes cool is bad (winter/cold-damp climates etc.).

Probably wasn't me. I don't like removing parts of a system that are operating correctly, even if many feel that it is a bridge too far.

Sure you can eliminate the lambda's from a system and it may run well, but it will likely not run AS efficiently and it WILL pollute more. I just don't get behind that logic, not if it can be made to run well within confines of the map and sensors (which I think hundreds of millions of cars proved a long time ago).

I think too many people just want to tinker with their bikes to say they've tinkered with their bikes.

I also think half the "benefits" people claim about smoothness and power increases comes from fooling themselves. Not saying that increases in smoothness and performance don't occur, I just think some people make mountains out of mole hills.

So it likely wasn't me that suggested it, unless it was a quick diagnostic check.

[NorthfieldV11Sport]

This thread could be very important to many of us who have had serious fueling problems with the V7.  I also put the Mistral cans on my wife's 2013 Stone and it has continued to have problems with cold starts and backfiring in spite of installing the updated factory maps.  I will now install Beetle's map and keep my fingers crossed.  Thanks for letting us benefit from your experience!! 

[sign216]

Lambda (oxygen) sensors and their effect on running are good.  They adjust each cylinder's air-fuel mix according to how each cyl is running. 

If your bike is too lean, it's the map's issue, not the sensors.  Yes, yanking off the sensors is easy, and adjusting the map is hard.  Sometimes you have to do the hard thing.

Find a way to adjust the map, alter the sensor input, or use one of the other ways to adjust the air-fuel mix. 



But...still feel free to take off stuff, etc, and if your feel your bike runs better, then it's a success.

[Andy1]

Hi KevM,
Sorry - Must have been somone else - just dug out the pm you sent to me last year that pointed to the free shareware available via this forum - which you told me 'will allow you to shut off the Lambda sensors'.  So someone else must have suggested removing the lambdas earlier on.  Not that it really matters whom it was, I just wanted to give credit where due.

I do find it strange, however, that people seem happy to try remaping which costs quite a lot of money and work, and which could do anything to their engine, rather than trying the simpler method of removing the lambdas.  Maybe they get a feeling of 'security' from buying a solution, although the solution they are buying may not be well proven.

Oh - and the change to my bike was not just noticed by me.  My local MG dealer had the bike back due to the original ECU failing.  After fitting a new replacement they realised the bike still had a hesistancy in the lower part of the rev range, which they were unable to tune out.  I took the bike back and did a bit of reading around, and was thinking about a remap when I discovered the lambda removal solution.  After doing that mod I revisited the dealer and they rode the bike again - and they were very impressed by how it now rode.

Anyway, each to their own.  I have put forward an alternative solution to the low running V7 engine problems that has worked well for my bike, which I thought might be of use to others.

Andy1

[sign216]

Before re-mapping I made an O2 sensor modifier for $30, similar to FatDuc, MemJet, etc.  It worked well and was easy and cheap enough ( https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157629649665070 ). 

I suggest modifying the Lambda sensor is better than taking it off, but I can't argue with the economy of simply removing it.

[oldbike54]

 Simply adding or subtracting fuel via a fat duc or similar device isn't solving the problem . Beetle's maps change fueling according to RPM and load , O2 mods can and will dump too much fuel into an engine leading to all kinds of problems . Yo , Mr Roper , weigh in here . Mark , where are you ?

 Dusty

[Kev m]

I do find it strange, however, that people seem happy to try remaping which costs quite a lot of money and work, and which could do anything to their engine, rather than trying the simpler method of removing the lambdas.  Maybe they get a feeling of 'security' from buying a solution, although the solution they are buying may not be well proven.

It's all good. I guess I'm saying that the "simplicity" by default makes it a blunt hammer instead of a scalpel.

The stock maps, though imperfect in parts of the range for emissions purposes are at least not just pig rich all the time, and that's potentially what you get when you force it the stock map into open loop only operation with no other changes.

I doubt that Beetle just adds fuel all over the place. I suspect strongly he takes it out too.

[fotoguzzi]

 
I do find it strange, however, that people seem happy to try remaping which costs quite a lot of money and work, 

I thought Guzzidiag was free (plus a few dollars for cables) and you can do all that re mapping without buying into Guzzitech solution.

[sign216]

Simply adding or subtracting fuel via a fat duc or similar device isn't solving the problem . Beetle's maps change fueling according to RPM and load , O2 mods can and will dump too much fuel into an engine leading to all kinds of problems . Yo , Mr Roper , weigh in here . Mark , where are you ?

 Dusty

Dusty,

I hear you, and note that O2 mods are adjustable, depending on spark plug readings.

In the end I used a programmable ECU (MyECU  from Australia), because big bore cyl and pistons on the V7 required a more complete solution.

Joe

[Andy1]

Hi Fotoguzzi
The OP said it cost him $140 for Beetle's solution - plus it must have taken some work installing
Andy1

[pete roper]

I thought Guzzidiag was free (plus a few dollars for cables) and you can do all that re mapping without buying into Guzzitech solution.

Guzzidiag can be downloaded for free but anybody half way decent will make a contribution to the developers. A LOT of work has gone into it and the 'Reader' and 'Writer' programmes.

Log-building a map is not a quick or easy thing. A lot of money gets spent on fuel, servicing and tyres and to do it properly requires a depth of understanding of how the ECU operates that the vast majority of us simply don't have.

Currently Mark is undertaking some pretty serious and involved development work with the MUIG3 and it is requiring considerably more 'Work arounds' than the comparative simplicity of the W5AM. He gave me a brief run down of what he's discovering before Christmas but I wouldn't dream of trying to explain it here as I'd probably get it wrong. The gist of it though was that the MUIG3 is a horrible POS that shouldn't be used on anything bigger than a moped! one of its major problems being its TPS interpretation and for logging purposes he's actually having to build a 'Ghost' TPS to aquire accurate data for map building.

He's a busy man with a family and it's the summer holiday for us in Oz but I'm sure he'll respond in good time.

[fotoguzzi]

Oh.
Note to self, buy next Guzzi used and well sorted out.
And of course I would donate if I needed to get Guzzidiag.

[ponti_33609]

Hi Fotoguzzi
The OP said it cost him $140 for Beetle's solution - plus it must have taken some work installing
Andy1

Yes. I paid for Mark's map and the cables were $40. Very little work involved. I read the GT map just in case and then wrote his. Then selected the Throttle Learning option in the Guzzi Diag tool. The steps between the GT Box and Mark's were the same. Honestly, I prefer using my pc but could see some preferring the GT box but steps were the same.

So to be clear, Mark's option was about $375 less and at least on my bike works better. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[darkstar1269]

Below is a clip form another forum (Honda) that addresses very well the popping on deceleration when changing pipes. My girlfriend had Mistral pipes on her V7R and they did sound great, looked good and had some minor popping. After reading this I found a pair of universal fit shorty reverse cone mufflers and threw them on my V7. Popping, yes, sound a bit throatier than the Mistral actually, plugs, look great after 2000 miles so far. This is just my experience with popping, which is OK with me, and what I found in my research...(no-remapping done, but I don't have any cold start issues, I can wait a minute before speeding down the road to let her warm up, it's kinda a little bit of her character i like so much)


Deceleration Backfire is caused by fuel burning in the exhaust manifold or header.

No ifs ands or buts, that�s what causes it. But the bigger question is how does gas get there in the first place, and that�s a bit more complicated. Generally, there are a variety of ways it gets there, and a variety of things that can make the backfiring worse. But there�s a kicker, and something you should understand before we go any farther:

A motor in perfect tune will exhibit deceleration backfiring.

Therefore, just because your motor is banging it up, doesn�t mean there�s anything wrong. And consequently:

Getting rid of the noise means de-tuning your motor.

Yup. If you�ve jut got to eliminate that popping, you�ll have to accept the fact that your motor is going to be forced to run rich to do it, and that isn�t necessarily a good thing. So lets talk about what causes the problem.

Ok, so you�re riding along at some given rpm, and suddenly you decide to decelerate, and you reduce the amount of throttle. This causes an �overrun� � that is, the motors rpm is turning faster than the fuel provided can support, so the motor begins to spool down. This causes a couple of things to happen.

First, when you close the throttle, you are also closing the throttle plates. This reduces the air and fuel flowing into the motor, and increases the vacuum (lowers the pressure). This results in less air and fuel in the cylinder during the power stroke, which in turn results in a lower pressure in the combustion chamber. Remember I said earlier, that the A/F mix burns faster in proportion to the pressure applied? Well, when we reduce pressure this way, the mix burns slower. This results in two things happening.

1. The lower burning fuel generates less heat, and the cooling effect of the non-burning fuel tends to �quench� the flame front, or slow it down even further. Because the mix is burning much slower, the exhaust valve can open before all the fuel is consumed, and the unburnt fuel is ejected into the exhaust.
2. The engine designers, in order to promote smoother idling and better combustion, retard the spark when the throttle is shut, and this results in the mix being lit later.

So, now we end up with unburnt fuel in the exhaust, and burning fuel being ejected into the exhaust, and bang! Backfire. In addition, Honda has added a device called a �programmed air injection valve� (Pair Valve) that actually injects some fresh air into the exhaust to help this process along � since fully burning the fuel results in cleaner exhaust. So the backfiring is not only a normal part of the engines operation, it�s also intentionally amplified by Honda! Of course, normally, that massive bazooka pipe Honda hangs on your bike hides most of the noise, but it�s there, even when you can�t hear it.

So the bottom line, is: That backfiring is perfectly normal and expected. If you�ve just got get rid of it, that�s up to you. You�re entitled to set your motor up the way you want, and your goals are your goals. But don�t refer to it as �fixing� the popping. Rather, the correct way to think of it is �de-tuning a bit to get rid of the popping�.

[lucian]

Beetle map's rule . Best $ you can spend modding a F.I. guzzi.

[Andy1]

OK Guys, going back to basics and considering a V7 in standard trim (or with Mistrals with dB killers fitted, because they seem to make little difference) - please shoot my logic down.


1. The V7 has a characteristic of running not quite right below 4000rpm.  This can show as the bike being easy to stall, hesitant, not wanting to hold a steady throttle.  Above 4000rpm the V7 runs fine.

2. The ECU operates closed circuit below 4000rpm and open circuit above 4000rpm.

3. In closed circuit operation the air / fuel ratios defined by the program in the ECU are adjusted by the lambda sensors.

4. Adjustment of the lambda sensors only effects the engine below 4000rpm.

5.  'Adjustment' of the lambda sensors may mean adding a resistor (compensator) or removing them altogether with the objective of making the air / fuel ratio richer below 4000rpm.


If all the above are correct then adjusting the lambdas would seem to be a good method to improve how the V7 engine runs.

(Other V7 mods and other engine types may well require the engine to have a re-map.  Lets just stick to the engine configuration found in the OP's and my bikes).

This is in no way meant as any criticism of those who do remapping as I am sure on a lot of bikes it is the only way to go - but maybe on the V7 there is a simpler way?

Please shoot my logic down.

Andy1
 

[pete roper]

No, with the MUIG3 fixing those issues is more complex than on say a W5AM bike not least because of the crappy stepped TPS signal.

Incidentally unplugging the lambda sensors is a really poor idea. There is a big difference between turning the lambda input off and simply unplugging them.

[beetle]

I feel compelled to pipe up. That load of BS from the Honda forum is nether correct nor helpful. I've no idea how Honda do their thing, but I do know how Marelli FI works. I don't add fuel to prevent popping. Yes, that will work, and it I can tell you that are definitely not 'de-tuning' (Egads!) your engine should you do that. Why? Because the area of the throttle/RPM curve in which the exhaust pops is never used on an open throttle in cruise or acceleration.

So, please ignore that load of tripe.

Most popping will not hurt. It can be annoying, but generally not problematic.

Simply disconnecting the sensors is not the best way to deactivate lambda. This will set the ECU in a permanent error state. I've not tried it on a V7, but does this not throw an error light? On the more clever ECU's you'd get the red triangle of death, plus a massive SERVICE warning if your dash has that ability.


Oh yeah, if anyone simply wants lambda switched off in a stock map, I'll happily do that for free.

[Kev m]

OK Guys, going back to basics and considering a V7 in standard trim (or with Mistrals with dB killers fitted, because they seem to make little difference) - please shoot my logic down.


1. The V7 has a characteristic of running not quite right below 4000rpm.  This can show as the bike being easy to stall, hesitant, not wanting to hold a steady throttle.  Above 4000rpm the V7 runs fine.

2. The ECU operates closed circuit below 4000rpm and open circuit above 4000rpm.

3. In closed circuit operation the air / fuel ratios defined by the program in the ECU are adjusted by the lambda sensors.

4. Adjustment of the lambda sensors only effects the engine below 4000rpm.

5.  'Adjustment' of the lambda sensors may mean adding a resistor (compensator) or removing them altogether with the objective of making the air / fuel ratio richer below 4000rpm.


If all the above are correct then adjusting the lambdas would seem to be a good method to improve how the V7 engine runs.

Well for starters I don't accept your 1st premise. I have about 14k miles on a STOCK (unmodified or remapped) 2013 V7 and though it DOES exhibit stalling/rough running for the first few minutes after a cold start, THAT'S IT. It does NOT have a problem running below 4000 rpm (as I often spend much of my time in the 3000 rpm range) and once that initial warm up is done it does NOT want to stall, does NOT surge, and does NOT have any problem with a steady throttle.

I'm not sure about 2 and 4, so I'll wait for someone who has played with the maps to answer but I don't know why there would be such a relatively moderate hard rpm cut off for open/closed loop operation. Yes most vehicles go to open loop at higher rpm, but generally that's more based on throttle position (i.e. you could be at 2k or 3k rpm and past a certain throttle opening or sudden change in throttle and it normally goes straight to open loop). Conversely steady throttle at say 3k or 4k rpm could easily cross into closed loop.

Remember closed loop just means the motor starts to use feedback from the O2 sensors to better dial in the mixture for economy, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Yes it may mean leaner mixtures and higher combustion temperatures, but there's no reason those alone are harmful under normal operating conditions and within the parameters programed by the OEM.

As such assumption 3 is correct.

[pete roper]

Simply disconnecting the sensors is not the best way to deactivate lambda. This will set the ECU in a permanent error state. I've not tried it on a V7, but does this not throw an error light? On the more clever ECU's you'd get the red triangle of death, plus a massive SERVICE warning if your dash has that ability.

The V7 dashes are dumber than dogshit and don't have any OBD to speak of. I don't know if disconnecting the lambdas will throw the 'Check Engine' light but from what is being said it would appear not. What it will do I'm pretty sure is, having detected the error, throw the ECU into default 'Limp' mode. On W5AM bikes this is readily apparent and you can feel it.

I first experienced the joy of this when experimenting with one of those awful 'Fat-Duc' widgets way back in the mists of time. Not knowing or understanding as much as I do now I thought the idea of fooling the ECU by altering the lambda signal sounded pretty smart. It isn't, for a variety of reasons, but what would happen is when the signal got outside of what the ECU registers as *Acceptable* range it has a cow and drops into limp mode while throwing up the service warning and triangle of death as Mark says. When it happens you can definitely feel it as the bike goes wishy-washy and feeble!

The V7 situation will be different as the change will occur as soon as the ignition is on so you wouldn't 'Feel' the change occurring as you ride but make no mistake. It'll be in 'Limp' mode.

Pete

[Andy1]

Hi Peter,
You are right - no warnings of any sort in +1500 miles with the lambdas removed from the bike.  I did dyno the bike with and without the lambdas connected and it made about 1hp more with them disconnected so I don't think the ECU is in a limp mode.  Unfortunately I did not get A/F ratios as the probe would not fit inside the end of the Mistrals.

Sounds like the V7 ECU is more basic than on other machines so maybe a lambda adjustment suits it?

Hi KevM
Interesting that your bike runs sweet - but from my experience and that of many others, a lot do not.  So why is yours different?  I do not fiddle or modify my bikes for no reason and my V7 had run properly (with the original silencers or Mistrals) then that is how I would have left it.

Andy1




 

[pete roper]

Hi Peter,
You are right - no warnings of any sort in +1500 miles with the lambdas removed from the bike.  I did dyno the bike with and without the lambdas connected and it made about 1hp more with them disconnected so I don't think the ECU is in a limp mode.  Unfortunately I did not get A/F ratios as the probe would not fit inside the end of the Mistrals.

Sounds like the V7 ECU is more basic than on other machines so maybe a lambda adjustment suits it?

Hi KevM
Interesting that your bike runs sweet - but from my experience and that of many others, a lot do not.  So why is yours different?  I do not fiddle or modify my bikes for no reason and my V7 had run properly (with the original silencers or Mistrals) then that is how I would have left it.

Andy1

 

A one HP difference in dyno runs not only means nothing as it's an at best 2% change, easily accountable by circumstance. Also WTF does peak HP matter when what you were complaining about was the sub 4,000rpm, small throttle opening behaviour??

At least try to be consistent.

[beetle]

Sounds like the V7 ECU is more basic than on other machines so maybe a lambda adjustment suits it?
 

The MIU G3 is very basic. Despite being originally designed for a single cylinder, it can actually operate two cylinders independently and has a MAP sensor. Mechanically it's a POS and once the TPS cam wears sufficiently, the whole MIU unit must be replaced. The TPS itself is fairly low resolution and barely adequate. It's not the ideal choice for a relatively large capacity engine when compared to the scooters it was designed for.