Author Topic: Any fans of "Zen and the art of m/c maintenance"? I could use some here pls  (Read 11486 times)

Offline Old Jock

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A bit different to what I thought but it runs from the ignition switch through the kill switch and then to the sidestand relay.

The sidestand relay is de-energized when in normal operation (typical odd Guzzi wiring) and also gives the feed to the starter solenoid, so if you can start it the relay is not doing anything abnormal

However as the fault is intermittent and not lasting too long it might be an idea to swap that relay out or over with another relay just to eliminate it and also take a look at the connections around that relay, clean and seating well, you know the drill. Although it's a bit of a forlorn hope, a relay dropping out occasionally is one thing, picking up is quite another. What I am wondering about is if the sidestand switch is dodgy and possibly just making, or the stand is rattling about just enough to occasionally trigger the switch.

You could eliminate that by pulling the grey wire off terminal 85 on relay 41 (remember to check the stand mind when you take off)

I don't know Digiplex at all, but it looks like there is also a relay in there and also a phase sensor make sure the relay is good and the phase sensor pickup is clean

Forget what I said about the coils I'm talking mince the Digiplex sort of makes the comments redundant. What you could do is tap into 87a terminal on relay 41, red and white wire going to the Digiplex and check it for voltage you could tap into it with something like a Positap or make a short fly lead with another wire coming off to monitor with the voltmeter

http://www.posi-products.com/posiplug.html you can get them off Amazon a zillion time better than Scotchlocks

If you used heavier gauge on the ignition then it should be good but I still worry a little, how hot is hot...............b urny burny or just warm. It also depends on quality too (although Guzzi are no angels in that regard) As an aside I prefer thinwall cable it has a far higher current carrying capacity

You are in Blighty Yes? I'm in Jockland AES do thinwall

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/

Yes if you fried the coils it would show up in a resistance check again as I know sod all about the Digiplex I don't know if it has built in protection or not, you could check if you want by leaving the ignition switch on and just feeling the coils after 5 or minutes, if there is no protection they will get warm quite quickly usually. If you want to stay on the safe side when doing any work with the ignition switch on put the kill switch to "kill"

Be interested to know how you get on


Offline izzug otom

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Hi Old Jock, thanks for some useful thoughts and ideas.

"and a compression test as been completed?"

Just did this before I turned into a washing machine service man for the evening, which ended up well, I'm pleased to say, as it's now fully working again. The results on both sides were 170psi. I don't know the spec for the engine is in that regard though.

A bit different to what I thought but it runs from the ignition switch through the kill switch and then to the sidestand relay.

The sidestand relay is de-energized when in normal operation (typical odd Guzzi wiring) and also gives the feed to the starter solenoid, so if you can start it the relay is not doing anything abnormal

However as the fault is intermittent and not lasting too long it might be an idea to swap that relay out or over with another relay just to eliminate it and also take a look at the connections around that relay, clean and seating well, you know the drill. Although it's a bit of a forlorn hope, a relay dropping out occasionally is one thing, picking up is quite another. What I am wondering about is if the sidestand switch is dodgy and possibly just making, or the stand is rattling about just enough to occasionally trigger the switch.

You could eliminate that by pulling the grey wire off terminal 85 on relay 41 (remember to check the stand mind when you take off)

I don't know Digiplex at all, but it looks like there is also a relay in there and also a phase sensor make sure the relay is good and the phase sensor pickup is clean

Forget what I said about the coils I'm talking mince the Digiplex sort of makes the comments redundant. What you could do is tap into 87a terminal on relay 41, red and white wire going to the Digiplex and check it for voltage you could tap into it with something like a Positap or make a short fly lead with another wire coming off to monitor with the voltmeter

http://www.posi-products.com/posiplug.html you can get them off Amazon a zillion time better than Scotchlocks

If you used heavier gauge on the ignition then it should be good but I still worry a little, how hot is hot...............b urny burny or just warm. It also depends on quality too (although Guzzi are no angels in that regard) As an aside I prefer thinwall cable it has a far higher current carrying capacity

You are in Blighty Yes? I'm in Jockland AES do thinwall

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/

Yes if you fried the coils it would show up in a resistance check again as I know sod all about the Digiplex I don't know if it has built in protection or not, you could check if you want by leaving the ignition switch on and just feeling the coils after 5 or minutes, if there is no protection they will get warm quite quickly usually. If you want to stay on the safe side when doing any work with the ignition switch on put the kill switch to "kill"

Be interested to know how you get on


Thanks Old Jock.

The side stand switch has been deactivated by a previous owner, however the wiring is still in place, so I'll check the grey lead is not still connected to relay (41) in case it might be shorting somewhere.

The phase sensor I checked a couple of days ago, there wasn't any crap collected on there though. I'll check the digiplex leads and connections, as well as the relays.

I think, looking at it, I just used the original wires for hotwiring it up, so there shouldn't be a great increase in resistance. The wires get quite warm, but nowhere near too to hold by hand.

Here's the hotwiring. I made this simple dash lights holder and had the ignition barrel did fit nicely into the hole there before the thieving to erags that was stealing
I'll be sure to keep you updated mate, thanks.

https://ibb.co/cZrX9y


The only reason, I suspect, that I got her back, after the cops raided a house across town, was that they couldn't start her up. Cops charged me around �200 to collect her with my breakdown cover.  When I got around to sorting her out again, it took me a day or so to find this broken pin in a connector block, connecting the main powerfeed from the loom to the ignition switch, I joined it back up using the post connectors as shown here. I assume this wouldn't cause a high resistance. Obviously thisis usually well wrapped up in ininsulation tape. I just removed the tape for the photo.

https://ibb.co/jXQE6d

Izzug
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 11:45:02 PM by izzug otom »

Offline Old Jock

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From the pictures the wire gauge appears fine to me

The post connections look a little iffy but as long as they are secure and well crimped then they too should be fine

Don't know the correct compression either but 170 sounds good and the main thing is both sides are the same

Sure you have, but have the molex connectors have been checked and all the connections there secure?

I'm starting to struggle a little, but you could certainly try a heavyish flying lead from battery to Digiplex input to eliminate the power supplying the Digiplex, if that still produces the same effects we can eliminate all the wiring and then you'd need somebody more familiar with Digiplex to chime in as I'd be guessing and I don't do guessing when trying help others, if I've an idea I post, if I don't I'll sit on my hands

Sorry for the obvious but the battery health is good and the bike is charging Ok? All the earths especially Digiplex and battery are secure and clean? 

This is getting tricky, I'm away for a think

Offline izzug otom

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Cheers mate, Yeah, I'm in Blighty, Nottingham. A few of us are actually thinking of taking a tripto Scotland this summer I apreciate you chiming in with any ideas and giving it further thought, you're a gent.! I guess if I fit a flying lead which I'll do this afternoon, from battery to Digiplex, it would save chasing nothing I guess , but I guess I could have a gremlin thats tempermental.

It would still leave the wiring from alternater, rectifier and the leads that hook up to the coils to check.

I'm just going to go check the sidestand wiring that's still on the bike, and check all the digiplex connections. I know the earth is good as I removed from the frame and wire brushed the adjoining surfaces. Same with the battery's earth. I'll then make a flying lead for it and testride it. Anyone any idea if it's important that I fuse the flying lead direct from battery to digiplex?

I'll also check any wires that affect the ignition in the connector blocks, seeing as the main power supply to the ignition had broke inside the connector itself, there must be a fair chance of other damage even if not visible. I'll then have a look the kill switch and digiplex relay.

Cheers, Izzug

Wildguzzi.com


Offline Old Jock

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A fuse is always a good idea I would guess 10 perhaps 15A

I don't know how often the fault manifests itself, but I'm oping that you can ride far enough to be reasonably certain that the lead eliminates the fault or that you actually still get the cutting out and then you can move on from there

If you are up in Jockland and anywhere near Glasgow gives us a shout and we could meet up either elsewhere or Glasgow itself

Offline izzug otom

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Hey sorry, I've been ill with  bug for a couple of days.

Before trying the flying lead to the electronic ignition I switched relays over. I've done this before with no joy, but this time it made a huge difference. On acceleration she never faltered, in fact she flew like she hasn't flown for a long time, everytime. Before this she'd consistantly falter.

When out on the ride I switched the relay again and she really struggled. Like and idiot I didn't note which one I'd switched and two or three of them faltered badly and I eventually found the one that worked ok......... Does that figure though, could a relay falter under the higher load of the ignition system, and not for the lights, starter etc? It doesn't make much sense to me, but that's what happened.

One thing it hasn't cleared up is the missing on idle and low revs, maybe up to an 1/8th throttle.

The miss is consistant and on the left side. On idle, it doesn't seem to matter if I turn the air mixture screw all the way in or 3 turns out on the left carb. Nor does the idle screw have any effect on the left hand side. On the right hand side it effects things as you'd expect it to.

I'll try and get a video of this made today so that the tone of the misfire can be understood by ear, rather than me try and explain it.

I'm going to try and find somewhere in town that stocks the relays, but I suspect I'll have to order them online.

Cheers Izzug

Offline izzug otom

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Also Old Jock, when you say run a flying lead from the battery to the digiplex, I assume you mean to remove the exising positive feed to do this?

Cheers

Offline izzug otom

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Oh, I knew there was something else. On my speedo, it has a mode for showing voltage whilst running, and when it was missfiring the voltage fluctuated from 11.4 to 12.7. When it was higher revs it was steady around 13.7.

I tested this a couple of weeks ago and it was reaching 14 with some revs and maintaining 12.7 on idle.

I'm not sure a dodgy relay can cause these issues, but that's the next step for now I guess.

Cheers Izzug

Offline Old Jock

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The only relay I can think that could affect the Digiplex is the Sidestand relay that's the only one that is on the pos feed, although from Carl's diagram it's normally de-energised. There looks like some sort of relay in the Digiplex itself but I have no clue about it.

The fluctuating voltage is making me think earthing issues, check to see the reg/rec is properly earthed down as if it's not that could be the reason for the fluctuating voltage and it could play havoc with the Didgiplex electronics

I'm not sure which generator is on this, possibly the Ducati Energia single phase jobbie, you could add another earth from the mounting screw on the Reg/Rec to a known good earthing point, it's a common mod, may also help your problem and will not do any harm, 2-2.5 mm^2 CSA, in other words a beefy wire don't use anything thin.

Missing idle and no effect on air slide stop screws, I'm wondering about your carb setup and cables. Put plenty of slack in to your throttle cables to make sure the slides are dropping completely and when you pull on the throttle as soon as one lifts the other should too. When you drop the slides they should make a "clonk" when the hit the idle/slide stop screw, if a cable is pulling on one even the tiniest amount it will knock the idling all over the place. You'll probably need to remove the tubes from airbox to carbs to allow you to see the slides.

The mixture screw not sure, but I had too tight cables on my LM1000 they only lifted one slide a fraction but it played hell with the idle, once I sorted it out, I could not believe how well the bike idled after that.

Forget the fly lead for now, you would disconnect the exisiting pos feed when you do it yes, but your testing seems to be leading other directions

Any help? I've got problems of my own right now with the FI on an 1100 which is so out of whack right now I'm convinced the bike is trying to kill me

John


 


Offline izzug otom

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Yeah I did balance the throttle slides by feel. I had someone nudge the throttle open slowly whilst I had a finger in theback of each carb, needed adjustment, checked again, all was good. I ensured there was slack in each cable and they both gave a resounding knock when letting go of the throttle, but again I'll re-check this. I did do all this with the tank off, so I guess there's a slight possibility of a snagged cable.

Yeah, I was going to check the side stand wiring too. Can it simplybe removed from the relay, as it isn't in use anyway, or does it need to maintain contact? I'm sorry if that sounds stupid, but electrics and me :cry: . EDIT:- Sorry mate, you've covered that above, just remove the grey wire from the relay.  :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 06:31:13 PM by izzug otom »

Offline sidecarnutz

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The advance mechanism on the DigiPlex is mechanical and vacuum operated. The hose on it's vacuum feed is prone to dry rotting and leaking. Moisture gets in there and the mechanism can bind up. A fresh bit of vacuum hose and a shot of silicone lube up into the mechanism on the DigiPlex box can help. Had this issue on my first Cali III some years ago.
yeah, I might be addicted to brake fluid. But I can stop any time I want.

2002 Kawasaki ZR7S
2021 Royal Enfield 650 Conti GT

Offline izzug otom

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The advance mechanism on the DigiPlex is mechanical and vacuum operated. The hose on it's vacuum feed is prone to dry rotting and leaking. Moisture gets in there and the mechanism can bind up. A fresh bit of vacuum hose and a shot of silicone lube up into the mechanism on the DigiPlex box can help. Had this issue on my first Cali III some years ago.

Thanks mate, the pipes are probably ready for a change anyways, but I did give the whole intake and vacuum side a thorough WD40 testing, but it didn't show anything anywhere. It'd probably affect both sides too, rather than just the left.

Cheers, Martin

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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It sounds to me like it could be ignition also
Check the Voltage at the coil
Measure the resistance from the plug caps to chassis, both sides should be identical, I'm guessing 8,000 Ohms
If the spark is weak when you open the throttle the extra mixture requires a higher Voltage for the spark to jump the gap.
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Offline Old Jock

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Ahhh Martin you've attracted Kiwi Roy to the case, listen to him the guy REALLY REALLY know his onions when it comes to the Elek-Trickery

Good luck I'm keeping my eye on the thread from time to time

I was thinking that the drop in Volts you see from the misfire may just be attribitutable to the drop in RPMs when one side starts to cut, the revs will drop and that will reduce the generator output, so I could be leading you up the garden path there. The additional earth the Reg/Rec though is still a good idea and worth a look if it's easily accessible.

I also thought it might be an idea to measure voltage at the coil at one point so I'd defo do as Roy asks

John

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 I assume this bike has a factory electronic ignition? Does it still use a typical Guzzi distributor with an electronic device and mechanical advance? Or is the ignition full electronic with nothing mechanical? It's easier for a weak ignition to fire a richer mixture ,you said it runs a bit better with the chokes on...The electronic ignition may have issues... This is assuming the "chokes" when closed are not passing extra fuel to the engine... But usually the idle will be way off normal with leaky cold start plungers.

Offline izzug otom

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It sounds to me like it could be ignition also
Check the Voltage at the coil
Measure the resistance from the plug caps to chassis, both sides should be identical, I'm guessing 8,000 Ohms
If the spark is weak when you open the throttle the extra mixture requires a higher Voltage for the spark to jump the gap.

Hi Roy, I much appreciate you dropping in here. I'm going to disconnect the side stand wire from the relay and then I'll measure the voltage at the coils. I did measure the voltage there, I had to undo the LV wire connector plugs in order to get the probes from the voltmeter to connect. I can't remember what the readings were, but they seemed normal to me. However that doesn't tell you anything, so I'll take accurate readings and post them up

I checked the resistance of the coils themselves and the HT leads and caps, but not from caps to chassis. I'll do that pronto, and get the results down here.

When you say you also think it may be the ignition, I assume you mean the something on the ignition side as opposed to the digiplex unit itself? The reason I ask is that I have a spare Digiplex, but its a 2ts 501A from a Nevada small block, whereas the one fitted to my Cali is a 2ts 500A, and wondering if it might be worth a shot?

"Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since 1921" Haha, I just about peed my pants when I saw this. Electrics phase me at the best of times but I'm trying to see this as an opportunity to gain better understanding, and will be indebted to you if you can help enlighten me in any way.  :wink:



Ahhh Martin you've attracted Kiwi Roy to the case, listen to him the guy REALLY REALLY know his onions when it comes to the Elek-Trickery

Good luck I'm keeping my eye on the thread from time to time

I was thinking that the drop in Volts you see from the misfire may just be attribitutable to the drop in RPMs when one side starts to cut, the revs will drop and that will reduce the generator output, so I could be leading you up the garden path there. The additional earth the Reg/Rec though is still a good idea and worth a look if it's easily accessible.

I also thought it might be an idea to measure voltage at the coil at one point so I'd defo do as Roy asks

John

Thanks mate, I do remember taking the readings voltage readings from the coils, can't remember what they were though, doh! Yes that thought ran through my mind, about the engine cutting, so might the voltage, rather than the voltage drop when missing on idle, causing the missing, ah, confusing though.

I'll PM you re visit to Scotland, we're just trying to set dates. ;) Hope you're getting somewhere with your bike's 'trying to kill you' issues....


I assume this bike has a factory electronic ignition? Does it still use a typical Guzzi distributor with an electronic device and mechanical advance? Or is the ignition full electronic with nothing mechanical? It's easier for a weak ignition to fire a richer mixture ,you said it runs a bit better with the chokes on...The electronic ignition may have issues... This is assuming the "chokes" when closed are not passing extra fuel to the engine... But usually the idle will be way off normal with leaky cold start plungers.

The only adjustment re timing is a digiplex connection to retard it by 2 degrees.

I don't think the choke plungers are the issue, but I'm not really sure how to check them for sure. It might be worth me swapping them over and see if the issues switch to the right handside. When I was getting more serious backfiring and the carb interiors were being blackened by the richness, the choke plungers did have blackening on them. I assumed with the back pressure from the backfiring would have been enough to push the plungers up.

Is there any way of checking for sure if a choke plunger is not sealing correctly, other than replacing it?

https://ibb.co/iMg6bd

https://ibb.co/bAmTpy

https://ibb.co/hYyf2J

This blackening was only there like this when opening the throttle suddenly would result in the engine dying out instead of accelerating. That appears to be cured now, just leaving the missing left side on tickover/very low revs.

I've ordered a couple of relays. One from Gutsibits, and one from AES (thanks John). I think it's the same spec, if so they're a damn sight cheaper, take a look if you're in the UK. £5.75 inc. VAT as opposed to £12.60 inc. VAT. I'll let you know if it's not the same, but it looks to be. https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/1032#flash-msg
https://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/TheShop/index.php?f=d&q=ELA01560

Sincere thanks to you all, Martin


Offline izzug otom

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Hi there, further to my previous post.

It sounds to me like it could be ignition also
Check the Voltage at the coil
Measure the resistance from the plug caps to chassis, both sides should be identical, I'm guessing 8,000 Ohms

Hi Kiwi_Roy, the voltage at the coils is showing at 12.7v on each side.

The resistance between plug cap and chassis is 11k on the R/H and 11.18k L/H

My coils I removed from the bike gave readings of :- R/H primary 1.0 Secondary 31.80k
                                                                             L/H primary 1.3 Secondary 32.50k

Stupidly, although I took readings of both coils when fitting the spares I had, I only managed to write one down for some reason, and that read:- primary 1.3, secondary 33.31k.

Does that give you anything to go on?

I've removed the side stand switch wire from the relay. I'll go take a quick ride and see if there's any difference before re earthing the rectifier......... one thing at a time so I'll hopefully be able to pinpoint the issue.

One thing I should perhaps have mentioned, although it's been the same for at least a couple of years now, is that the charge light comes on at idle. I've never been concerned about this, as I figured it must be a faulty sender, as the charging voltage shows on the replacement speedo I fitted, and has always shown what it should as far as voltage when charging or actual battery voltage when the engine is switched off. I hadn't thought to mention this though, as I've become so used to it that it didn't enter my head.
Edit, Whoops, silly me, looking at the wiring diagram, the rectifier is the sender for the charge warning light. So I need to run some checks there. As recommended by Old Jock, I'll run a fresh wire from the rectifier mounting bolt to a solid earth point. I believe I can test the rectifier and alternator with a multimeter. I'll check out how to do that on good old youtube, and get back to you with the results.  :violent1:

Thanks, Martin
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 11:07:52 PM by izzug otom »

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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12.7 should be plenty of Voltage for the coils

The Digiplex grounds out the other side of the coils so it needs to have good grounding not just fixed to the chassis, perhaps add a ground wire from battery Negative to any point that's presently grounded

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1994_California_1100.gif

Does it have the pointy European fuses as the schematic depicts
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 11:35:16 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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I took her out for a good run yesterday to see if I could find more indication of the issues at hand, but in reality it just got more eratic, leading me to believe it must for sure be an ignition fault.

Sometimes when accelerating from low revs, the engine would cut, then I'd drop down a gear and the engine would take hold again and away she flew. Other times I'd be accelerating in a lower gear at higher revs, the engine would cut, this time stepping up a gear, thus accelerating in low revs, the bike would take hold and fly again.

Thus, two totally conflicting sets of circumstances brought about the same failure. I have to deduce from that, that what I'm looking for is an ignition fault, and doubting it's the coils themselves, as it'd be unbelievable bad luck if I swapped a dodgy coils for another with exactly the same issues. I will try swapping the old R/H one for the spare I've fitted to the problematic L/H side, but it's sop remote a chance, it's hardly worth bothering with.

When the engine dies on acceleration, it's either the left side failing and the right can't take that throttle on it's own and gets bogged down....... or both coils are not producing sufficient sparks due to a fault somewhere back in the electrics feeding them.

It's really easy for this kind of fuckery to hide itself. It will most likely be something very simple if only I could trace it. As I said above I'm no expert with electrics, but I have a multi meter and a pair of eyes.......... here goes again.  :wink:

Izzug
This really sounds like a weak spark to me, My EV did something similar when the carbon core ignition wire went open .
Your reading of 11K from plug cap to chassis is more than I have seen, I would expect it to be more like 8,000

Can you add a 12V lamp to the coil supply to verify it's constant when the engine cuts out?

I have seen a dirty ignition switch cause a similar problem, flick it a few times to see if there is any change.

Could you post a link to the Carl Allison Drawing that best represents your bike?

« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 11:34:18 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline izzug otom

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Thanks Roy, I don't know if you've read through it all, I know it's a bit long winded, but the cutting out under any sudden throttle has stopped, or appears to have done. This happened when switching relays over. The engine power is much more there now with it too.

However that still leaves me with a missfiring engine on tickover and very low revs, and on deccelaration. miss, miss, miss, miss, cough, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss,cough kind of thing. The idle screw and mixture screw on the left carb don't seem to have any affect at all on the, even though there is spare play in both throttle cables and the slides are coming down with a resounding clunk.

I'll check the ground to the digiplex, but I'm pretty sure it already meets up with an earth from the battery, but I'll double check that.

Bearing in mind the battery warning lamp staying on until a bit more revs than tickover, and although this was the case before the currents problems, do you think there's much chance the rectifier, or a bad ground to it could be causing the issue, now it seems restricted to very low revs. Or do you think I might be barking up the wrong tree there?

I've been going on the same schematics drawing of Carl's as the one you posted above. It seems accurate so far.

"Can you add a 12V lamp to the coil supply to verify it's constant when the engine cuts out?" - Not really Roy, with those sealed plug contacts, as in this photo. https://ibb.co/k5Wc1d

"I have seen a dirty ignition switch cause a similar problem, flick it a few times to see if there is any change." - There is no ignition switch since some toerags stole her. I've continued to hotwire it with male/female spade connectors. I have ensured these are a solid tight connection when testing.

If 11000 is too high, I assume it's something that's affecting both sides, making the digiplex earthing seem logica (there you go, see? I'm learning already, Only a few days ago I could see nothing logicical in electrics at all!!  :laugh: ), but I'm not sure where the relay No.10 is yet and I'm guessing that, or it's connections, must be a suspect at this point too, unless my logic is running away with itself.  :wink:

I have a couple of small'ish holes come through on the bottom of the silencers, could that be enough to upset the idle to this extent, and to the point of the left carb's idle screw and mixture screw not affecting the idle speed or missfire. I'd have thought not, but I'll stand to be corrected.

Thank's for your time and thoughts.  :bow:

Offline izzug otom

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Unless I'm doing something stupid, I really don't know what is going on at the moment, but I can't get a reading from my rectifier on any combination of poles.

If I'm correct, with the rectifier removed from the bike, and with the multi meter set to diode. Red pole of m/meter to black lead of the rectifier, black pole from m/meter to the yellow leads from rectifier, and vice versa, gives me no readings at all. Doesn't make sense as it definitely works.

It is a new very cheap multi meter, maybe the diode position doesn't work.

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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The schematic shows a Ducati Energia Regulator

You should get a reading with the diode tester
Red lead to yellow, black lead to red of about 0.5 Volts
Same on the other yellow
The diodes in these regulators are between the yellow and red
Yellow---->|------Red-----|<-----Yellow

I really don't think it's a battery Voltage problem, it should run even if the battery was a bit low e.g. 10 Volts

Could you plug the muffler holes with muffler putty to see if the popping improves?

I assume you are referring to relay 10, I don't know what that's required for
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline Charles in Lake Charles

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Digiplex Ignition on SPIII and Spada

On my SPIII with a Digiplex ignition, it would occasionally quite and then restart, a most dangerous situation. In an effort to fix it, I replaced the ignition relay with a SPDT relay (5 pin). With the new relay, it just wouldn't run. Upon checking, I found that the 5 pin relay is in fact a SPST relay with the center pin just another connection to the 87 pin. So what you have is two 87 pins connected (both are designated as 87, not one 87 and one 87A). On the SPIII, the center pin needs the connection to the outer pin in order for the ignition to work. I removed the connectors from the collector and tighten them up before reinstalling. Everything is now fine.
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98 Yellow Centauro, 93 SPIII, 1978 LeMans,
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Offline izzug otom

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The schematic shows a Ducati Energia Regulator

You should get a reading with the diode tester
Red lead to yellow, black lead to red of about 0.5 Volts
Same on the other yellow
The diodes in these regulators are between the yellow and red
Yellow---->|------Red-----|<-----Yellow

I really don't think it's a battery Voltage problem, it should run even if the battery was a bit low e.g. 10 Volts

Could you plug the muffler holes with muffler putty to see if the popping improves?

I assume you are referring to relay 10, I don't know what that's required for

Yeah Roy, I watched one or two youtube vids and got it set to diode, but couldn't get any reading from it. I suspect the diode part of the new cheapo m/meter isn't working as the Rec/Reg (same thing?) is clearly doing it's thing. I went in there to run a good earth from the rec/reg to the (cleaned) main chassis point to wich the Neg battery post runs to. It's also the same good earthing position for the Digiplex (you asked about that Roy).  Whilst I was in there I checked the AC voltage from the alternator, and all good there, going to 80+v with some revs.

Got ya on the voltage not being the issue mate, thanks for clearing that up.  :wink:

I could putty the exhaust up, but the MOT Test is due the 20th of this month and was hoping to fin someone to weld me some plate on them. The holes are at the underneath of both silencers. I'm not ure if the putty would get in the way of welding. I quite like the look of bandaged exhausts though, so that's an option I guess, but probably more expensive than having the welding done. I could maybe try the old fizzy drink can jubilee clipped over the holes for a temp test, but maybe I should just get the welding sorted out pronto.

Yeah Roy, relay 10, no wire colours to it to determine which one, though I can check which the other 4 are by checking the colours going to them. There are 5 on my fuse/relay block.

I'm taking her for a good ride tmro as I need to see my parents, so I'll report back.

Cheers Izzug
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 04:52:31 PM by izzug otom »

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Digiplex Ignition on SPIII and Spada

On my SPIII with a Digiplex ignition, it would occasionally quite and then restart, a most dangerous situation. In an effort to fix it, I replaced the ignition relay with a SPDT relay (5 pin). With the new relay, it just wouldn't run. Upon checking, I found that the 5 pin relay is in fact a SPST relay with the center pin just another connection to the 87 pin. So what you have is two 87 pins connected (both are designated as 87, not one 87 and one 87A). On the SPIII, the center pin needs the connection to the outer pin in order for the ignition to work. I removed the connectors from the collector and tighten them up before reinstalling. Everything is now fine.

What Charles sez. I tried to get Carl to understand the Guzzi diagrams weren't correct, but never quite got that job done.  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
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Offline izzug otom

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Onefrom Guzzi is on the left. I can't figure the little shitty diagrams, can anyone say if the one on the right is on the same layout as the Guzzi one?

Thanks

relays photo
https://ibb.co/fZsybd

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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The resistance between plug cap and chassis is 11k on the R/H and 11.18k L/H

My coils I removed from the bike gave readings of :- R/H primary 1.0 Secondary 31.80k
                                                                             L/H primary 1.3 Secondary 32.50k

Stupidly, although I took readings of both coils when fitting the spares I had, I only managed to write one down for some reason, and that read:- primary 1.3, secondary 33.31k.

Does that give you anything to go on?
 
 
The resistance doesn't add up from cap to chassis should be the greatest as it's the sum of cap, lead and coil.
Switch the meter leads around also, any difference points to a corroded connection creating a cell.


relays photo
https://ibb.co/fZsybd
Yes the relays are the same, just different make

I'm thinking less and less about electrical
The mixture screw should make a difference, perhaps it has a blocked passage

You should balance the carbs again, one way is to use a drill bit under the slide as a gauge, both sides the same but if you have ports for a "U" tube manometer just make one from plastic tube and some engine oil
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 10:26:32 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline luthier

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I really don't know how you have the patience for this. If it were me, I would have fitted a points dizzy and got a pair of good quality car coils, new copper wire leads and be done with it.
I did that to my Cali when the ignition started to play funny buggers and after it was always rock solid. But I'm a grumpy old man.
 And you izzug otom are a backwards kinda guy.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 03:13:15 AM by luthier »

Offline izzug otom

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The resistance doesn't add up from cap to chassis should be the greatest as it's the sum of cap, lead and coil.
Switch the meter leads around also, any difference points to a corroded connection creating a cell.


relays photo
https://ibb.co/fZsybd
Yes the relays are the same, just different make

I'm thinking less and less about electrical
The mixture screw should make a difference, perhaps it has a blocked passage

You should balance the carbs again, one way is to use a drill bit under the slide as a gauge, both sides the same but if you have ports for a "U" tube manometer just make one from plastic tube and some engine oil

Thanks Roy. I think changing the relay instantly cured the opening throttle and engine dying. I switched a couple over and not sure if it was the side stand relay or the digiplex relay. Ayway I have a couple more to play with. Thanks for ID'ing them as the same. I spent a good while trying to figure it out. I've obviously got a lot of Moto Guzzi schooling in electrics to go yet.  :wink:

I'll switch M/meter leads over and try the plug cap to chassis resistance again. It's reading virtually the same each side, seeing as it's effecting both equally would that narrow it down to an earth somewhere.

I see what you mean with the figures not adding up. That's my fault Roy, I'm sorry. The coils' figures have the decimal place out  :violent1:. They were reading 3,180 and 3,250 (3k+, not 31 and 32k)

I'll rebalance the carbs, yeah I usually use a couple zipties instead of drill bits. I had a pair of vacuum guages, until I lent them to a friend. I'm thinking of buying another set, but I'm intrigued by the home made manometer, I'll check that out on youtube, thanks.

By ports do you mean the screws into the inlet manifold Roy?

I can't understand the holees in the exhaust being responsible for so much difference and just on one side, both sides have holes in the silencers. I've had carb cleaner through all the orifices and jets, etc. and was very thorough. However I am wondering about the choke plunger. I can't see anyway of checking them in situ, so maybe swapping them over will make the miss, cough 'n splutter swap sides.

Having said that, I wonder if there's a way if checking leaking with the float bowl off. Any ideas, per chance? It would explain being very rich on the left, and possibly too much fuel running through, therefore the idle and very low revs might not be affected by richening or weakening via the mixture screw, and possibly the idle screw can't raise the slide enough to let adequate air in to compensate. Does that make much sense?

Cheers, Martin
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 05:00:43 AM by izzug otom »

Offline izzug otom

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I really don't know how you have the patience for this. If it were me, I would have fitted a points dizzy and got a pair of good quality car coils, new copper wire leads and be done with it.
I did that to my Cali when the ignition started to play funny buggers and after it was always rock solid. But I'm a grumpy old man.
 And you izzug otom are a backwards kinda guy.

Ah but what if you then found it was the side stand switch or a simple dodgy relay.

"And you izzug otom are a backwards kinda guy." Hahahaha! :grin: :grin: :grin:

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