Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: welshrob on February 28, 2016, 04:21:36 AM
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I`ve been using the search function on both of these topics and not coming up with the answers.
Lot`s of old posts about Todd reflashing the ECU but not who Todd actually is or how I get in touch with him? :rolleyes:
I`m not going to start complaining g about the way the forum is laid out, it is what it is, I suppose and I`m sure you`ve heard it all before.
So, I have a twin throttle body 2009 Classic.
The stock pipes have been drilled through, it sounds nice, but I have read a few of posts about the Mistral Cross Over pipe.
I`ve seen them on the MG Cycles site, certainly not an expensive mod.
Is it possible to just bolt it straight on, or is it best to remap the bike?
If I just buy it and bolt it straight on, will it improve anything apart from the sound?
Who is Todd, where is Todd and how does he reflash the ECU?
Does he send you a map that you can flash into the bike yourself like Tune ECU with Trumph, or do you send your ECU to him?
Thanks in advance.
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15MRC. No need to spend money on snake oil.
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To answer some of your questions, Todd is the proprietor of Guzzitech.com both a forum and online parts supplier.
Guzzi being such a small manufacturer the aftermarket is pretty small limiting economy of scale and options for many things.
Can't tell you anything about an aftermarket crossover on the Smallblock except that it likely changes nothing but sound and looks.
15MRC. No need to spend money on snake oil.
I suspect that Pete is saying you don't need to pay for a reflash since you can use GUZZIDIAG (shareware), and the related map reader/writer along with some inexpensive appropriate OBDII cables to load a map (assuming Beetle or the like has made one for the 2TB V7).
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I've got the same bike. The crossover eliminates the baggy intermediate muffler and makes it easy to access the gear box drain. Didn't have any effect on sound or tune on my bike with stock mufflers. I do my own maintenance and change fluids more often than required, so worth the money for me.
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I've got the same bike. The crossover eliminates the baggy intermediate muffler and makes it easy to access the gear box drain. Didn't have any effect on sound or tune on my bike with stock mufflers. I do my own maintenance and change fluids more often than required, so worth the money for me.
Oh, that makes sense. That's why I changed the crossover on my Jackal many years ago.
Come to think of it the newer 1TB motors have a smaller crossover in the first place which makes access easier. So yeah, that alone would be motivation for me on a 2TB.
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Todd did a reflash on my 2013 V7R when I added Mistral mufflers and a SS crossover. It took two tries but the end result was very acceptable. My biggest issue was popping on decal and it now 99% gone. Todd will also ask you if you want the o2 sensor disabled.
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The previous method for re-flashing was for you to remove the ECU from the bike, send it in to Todd who would change the mapping tables on it. Guzzitech now sells a reflashing tool that you use to manage your own map changes.
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The previous method for re-flashing was for you to remove the ECU from the bike, send it in to Todd who would change the mapping tables on it. Guzzitech now sells a reflashing tool that you use to manage your own map changes.
That was the main puzzle. Removing the ECU and sending it to the USA is not something I am keen on doing.
Thanks all of you who responded, that has pretty much answered all of my questions. I`ve already done an oil change, it was not something I found particularly difficult so I would not buy the crossover pipe just to make the rear drain plug easier to access and if there are no other benefits I don`t see the point in buying one.
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I suspect that Pete is saying you don't need to pay for a reflash since you can use GUZZIDIAG (shareware), and the related map reader/writer along with some inexpensive appropriate OBDII cables to load a map (assuming Beetle or the like has made one for the 2TB V7).
I had no idea what Pete was saying either :grin: but I`ve seen the GuzziDiag thread.
I`ve used TuneECU with various Triumphs, it`s not hard to put a map in, triumphrat.net has a whole board with tutorials on downloading it, using it and tuning with it but map sharing is the most popular way on that forum.
For example when I tuned my Bonneville I had created a map on the dyno to suit the particular set up, ie. air injection and o2 sensors removed, airbox restrictor plate removed, K&N filter and pipes fitted.
The finished map is a hex file which I shared by email etc with several other members all running the same set up and they have also shared it in turn.
So is it possible to get an "off the peg" map to suit an 09 V7 classic with pipes, that I can just download? Or do I need to create one from scratch?
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When the Cat is still in, the engine holds backpressure. Is it running lean you think? You can check the plugs. Little people put the v7 on the dyno, but before changing anything, a baseline about how it is now would be good. Maybe spend a few $ and get a dyno with air fuel log to start with.
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When the Cat is still in, the engine holds backpressure. Is it running lean you think?
Yes, absolutely, I don`t need to check the plugs to know that. ALL bikes without a smart ECU will run slightly lean when you replace the stock pipes with aftermarket ones, until you remap or rejet the bike. Mostly at lower throttle openings and rarely enough to harm the bike.
Aftermarket pipes = popping on deceleration. This is the same with carburettor bikes, if you just bolt some pipes on, they will pop on deceleration until you put a bigger pilot jet in and/or raise the needle, to allow more fuel in at lower throttle openings.
Sorry to keep harping on about Triumphs but they are my main point of reference. If you buy a set of pipes for your Triumph, the dealer will download a new map, to give a slight power advantage and to make it rich in the lean spots that the pipes have now cause in the stock map. It`s mostly about fuelling but they also have different ignition maps too.
So, the Dealer will have access to four different maps for the Bonneville, stock, Triumph off road (Tors) Arrow 2-2 slip ons and Arrow 2-1 full system. These maps are also widely available online to users of Tuneboy or TuneECU. Now you might have a different set of pipes, like British Customs Predators for example, which don`t perfectly match any of these maps, but the dealer usually knows that the Arrow 2-1 map is the richest and most agressive and will be the closest to run with the predators. Likewise the TORS map will be closest to use with a pair of stock pipes that have been bored out.
So in 2 minutes you can load a pre set map to work with your pipes that is not going to be 100% PERFECT, like one created specifically for that bike on the dyno but it will be 95% perfect and certainly MUCH better than running with pipes and the stock map.
Typically, with one of these maps you`ll also get a 4-8hp increase (sometimes at the expense of a bit of midrange) more torque, better throttle response and no popping on decel.
In fact, running ANY one of those four maps with pipes is going to be better than running the stock map, because the bike will not be running lean.
And it will also be much better than creating a map from scratch using guesswork to alter the fuel and ignition tables.
So, going back to the last unanswered question. I know there are not going to be any dealer maps available but is anyone sharing their own? Is there a map available anywhere for me to download using Guzzidiag that someone has created to make the bike run better with pipes, or does everyone just create their own map from scratch using guesswork and manually altering all the tables?
Anyone?
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So, going back to the last unanswered question. I know there are not going to be any dealer maps available but is anyone sharing their own? Is there a map available anywhere for me to download using Guzzidiag that someone has created to make the bike run better with pipes, or does everyone just create their own map from scratch using guesswork and manually altering all the tables?
Anyone?
I`m bumping this from page 3 because I`m hoping deep down that someone IS actually able to answer it? :laugh:
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Most Guzzistas don't seem to want to fool around with modifying the fueling maps that come stock with the V7. Instead, the most popular option is to purchase the map upgrade from a company like Guzzitech; the second most popular is to get the ECU upgraded at the dealer with the latest OEM map and live with it.
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Most Guzzistas don't seem to want to fool around with modifying the fueling maps that come stock with the V7.
Yes, that certainly seems to be the case!
Instead, the most popular option is to purchase the map upgrade from a company like Guzzitech;
Thanks for the info. I`ll join the Guzzitech forum! :thumb:
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Yes, that certainly seems to be the case!
Thanks for the info. I`ll join the Guzzitech forum! :thumb:
For the Guzzitech money a local dynoshop can make one for your bike with your gas. And you still keep money in your pocket.
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Yes, absolutely, I don`t need to check the plugs to know that. ALL bikes without a smart ECU will run slightly lean when you replace the stock pipes with aftermarket ones, until you remap or rejet the bike. Mostly at lower throttle openings and rarely enough to harm the bike.
Aftermarket pipes = popping on deceleration. This is the same with carburettor bikes, if you just bolt some pipes on, they will pop on deceleration until you put a bigger pilot jet in and/or raise the needle, to allow more fuel in at lower throttle openings.
You've got some popular misconceptions in this post.
All OEM maps aren't lean EVERYWHERE in the map because emissions isn't regulated at all rpm/conditions.
Many OEM maps are lean at idle and other closed loop points but are rich (sometimes very much so) at open loop operation, especially acceleration/WOT.
This was true with carbs to when say a lean pilot jet was used with rich main for similar reasons.
Similarly whether or not an opened exhaust or airbox benefits from more fuel will friends l depend on how well those components are operating together. Just like straight pipes on a Harley actually hurt midrange, it all depends on pipe diameters, shapes, lengths, and if it's causing reversion.
Popping similarly may not be an indication that you need MORE fuel, as it may be caused by continued injection with closed throttle deceleration.
Anyway, not a lot of people play with the V7 tune because there's not much to gain with more significant changes. Also their efficiency tends to be part of the appeal and efficiency often tends to be the first casualty of remapping.
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I`m bumping this from page 3 because I`m hoping deep down that someone IS actually able to answer it? :laugh:
Im with you. Also hoping others can chime in with options other than Guzzitech. Todd basically told me he gets 1,000 emails a day and not to expect a reply to any email. I kid you not.
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For V7 Classic owners, I've added the 15RC Lambda-Off-No-Pop map to my website as a free download.
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For V7 Classic owners, I've added the 15RC Lambda-Off-No-Pop map to my website as a free download.
Does this applies to Stone as well or there would be a different map?
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For V7 Classic owners, I've added the 15RC Lambda-Off-No-Pop map to my website as a free download.
Thanks for stopping by! :thumb:
Paul
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Does this applies to Stone as well or there would be a different map?
The free download is for any twin throttle body V7 small block with the 15RC ECU.
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The free download is for any twin throttle body V7 small block with the 15RC ECU.
How about for single throttle body? or does it not need?
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Single throttle body maps are available to purchase.
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Single throttle body maps are available to purchase.
Are your maps for the V7 II the same for the V7 III?
Do your maps changing timing as well as fuelling?
Paul
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I am yet to see a V7-III map. I expect the software will be similar to the V9, in such that it will be as different to the V7-II as the V7-II is different to the first generation single throttle body V7. If someone were to send me one I could see what's going on.
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For those with the pre-2013 bikes a programmable ECU is/was available from Australia: MyECU. They have a forum where people post maps etc. http://cajinnovations.com/yabb0/YaBB.pl (http://cajinnovations.com/yabb0/YaBB.pl)
I've really enjoyed mine.
Joe
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For V7 Classic owners, I've added the 15RC Lambda-Off-No-Pop map to my website as a free download.
That's Todd's automatic reply. He's pretty much a one man operation and can't waste his time on questions that can easily be answered or already have been answered in the forums. Do some research don't just expect everyone too tell you what to do and don't believe everything people tell you.
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That's Todd's automatic reply. He's pretty much a one man operation and can't waste his time on questions that can easily be answered or already have been answered in the forums. Do some research don't just expect everyone too tell you what to do and don't believe everything people tell you.
I have had bad experiences with them. Guzzitech is all about the $$$.
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For V7 Classic owners, I've added the 15RC Lambda-Off-No-Pop map to my website as a free download.
Hi Beetle! Thanks for this! Question, will this map work for all Guzzi V7's including current ones? I have a 2013 V7 and I just ordered the cables but I want to be sure I'm not shooting myself in the foot. If not, could someone point me in the right direction? GuzziTech seems great, but for me, I have a used V7 that cost me $3800, so paying $500 to fix the ECU, is pretty steep. I feel like this is more of a fix than a performance increase.
Meaning that the stock mapping with lighter and less restricting mufflers is almost unridable. THANK YOU
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Beetle may be sleeping. If you have a single throttle body the map won't work, it goes by which ECU that is on the bike. If you have 2 TB's it will work.
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To clarify a little - the V7Classic has the 15RC ECU. This ECU seems have built in quite a bit of flexibility and also seems to have well sorted out of the box. For the 15RC, you do not need a reflash for the crossover (I didn't for the Agostini), you don't need a reflash for Staintunes, you don't need a reflash for Agostinis, & probably not Mistrals either. The 15RC copes/learns.
That has been my experience with a late 2010 V7C (map BC.0103278.A). Joe's 2009 V7C seems to have been unsatisfactory, hence the myECU upgrade, but the later factory maps seem to be fine.the Breva's & I think, the Nevadas have the same ECU, & probably the same maps.
The latest factory maps should be available from your local friendly Guzzi dealer, and FREELY available from Beetle (GRiSO.org). Beetle's free map is for the 15RC, and thus is NOT appropriate for the later single throttle body V7's. Do note that if you have a muffler with removable baffles, removing these may change things. My V7C seemed to cope with the Agostinis with the baffles removed, but I found it too loud (sorry Al) and quickly restored them. I don't know what would happens if you started putting holes in the mufflers, do so at your own risk, but I wouldn't recommend it.
I think that about covers it.but do ensure that everything else is working well - throttle bodies balanced, fuel filter not blocked, air filter in good nick, no leaks in the exhaust system, good plugs & caps & HT wires, etc, etc, before you start fiddling with the ECU.
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Hi Beetle! Thanks for this! Question, will this map work for all Guzzi V7's including current ones? I have a 2013 V7 and I just ordered the cables but I want to be sure I'm not shooting myself in the foot. If not, could someone point me in the right direction? GuzziTech seems great, but for me, I have a used V7 that cost me $3800, so paying $500 to fix the ECU, is pretty steep. I feel like this is more of a fix than a performance increase.
Meaning that the stock mapping with lighter and less restricting mufflers is almost unridable. THANK YOU
As Steve and Mal have pointed out, it's only for twin throttle body V7 Classic/Nevada/Breva
My maps for single throttle body V7's are 1/5th of the price of a GT map. And far superior.
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To clarify a little - the V7Classic has the 15RC ECU. This ECU seems have built in quite a bit of flexibility and also seems to have well sorted out of the box.
Joe's 2009 V7C seems to have been unsatisfactory, hence the myECU upgrade, but the later factory maps seem to be fine.the Breva's & I think, the Nevadas have the same ECU, & probably the same maps.
Malik,
My '09 V7 with the 15RC ECU was fine right from the factory. ... Until I added big bore pistons and cylinders from Italy. The added displacement sucked more air (like it was designed to) but that just leaned out the mixture and I had knocking.
MyECU was great, allowing me to adjust the air-fuel mix and timing to remove the knock. Before that, the big bore kit was a huge detriment, but the total control of MyECU resolved that. MyECU is only available for the "old" engines, not the new single throttle body motors.
And...when it was stock I did play with a DIY O2 sensor mod. It worked well and I recommend it, but I know others have had problems.
Joe
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"Todd" over at Guzzi Tech reflashed my 2004 Breva 750 in 2013. It made a real, major, improvement in tractability and fuel economy.
It was a mail-in-the-ECU process which took about 10 days round trip.
Don't have a phone # or email for Todd but you can send him a note here:
TO: Todd Eagan
400 Costa Del Sol Way
Malibu, CA 90265
Also here's a link to GuzziTech where you should be able to find Mr. Eagan and his services:
http://www.guzzitech.com/ (http://www.guzzitech.com/)
Also, here is a list of resources that will be of use to you with your V7 Classic:
http://www.dansher.com/bikepix/Guzzi/_V7_fyi.txt (http://www.dansher.com/bikepix/Guzzi/_V7_fyi.txt)
Enjoy,
'Geezer
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Malik,
My '09 V7 with the 15RC ECU was fine right from the factory. ... Until I added big bore pistons and cylinders from Italy.
Joe
I understand how that might change a few things in there, Joe. Must be satisfying. If anything like taking one of my Enfield 500 singles out to 535, that little bit extra made a comfortable increase in rideability. nothing startling, a tad more torque.(handles hills better), a tad more power, along with confidence that the crank's hardening wasn't going to wear through anytime soon. (I got the bike cheap because the crank had failed).
The O2 spoofer? I tried one out (the one from Corsa Corta) for a few thousand km, not a success on my bike - more popping, spluttering, engine warning light flickering, missing at 4,000 rpm. Removed it. I'm now unsure that the symptoms were solely due to the spoofer, but the bike seemed to run better without it. John at Motociclo reported that it worked well on some bikes, but not on others. There have been reports of detrimental effects in long term use. Now that there's more people around who know more about maps, it seems to me that it's better to make adjustments through the ECU rather than on top of it.
Anyway, I'm still happy with the V7C, gets me from A all the through to Z, and in style.
Mal
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Beetle has maps for all v7 versions.
here:
http://www.griso.org/