Author Topic: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization  (Read 3744 times)

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1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« on: October 04, 2018, 07:27:48 PM »
Read all the TPS Procedure descriptions and they seem logical.

Best I can sort out of the pile is:
(With throttle pushrods disconnected)

With the LH throttle butterfly FULLY CLOSED I should see a reading of 150 mV (ignition key ON) between pin #1 and pin #3 on the TPS.

After setting the TPS to this closed butterfly voltage I should wind in the butterfly stop screw  (ignition key on) until I read a 500 mV at the same test position.

Then I should completely close both air bypass screws and balance the manifold vacuum on an idling engine by adjusting the Right Hand butterfly stop screw.

Then adjust idle speed to 1,050-1,100 using the air bleed screws to change the idle mixture ratio.

Then connect the pushrods under NO TENSION OR COMPRESSION and check vacuum at 1,500-3,000 RPM. Do any imbalance touch up with the balance screw at the LH pushrod link.

Double check everything and if still within specs call it finished.

MAIN THING I'M CURIOUS ABOUT FOR MY '98 V11EV:
Are the two voltages correct for this bike?
Are Pin #1 and Pin #3 the correct sources for the voltage readings?

As an aside the bike has run well for the last 20,000 miles. It gets about 36 MPG. It does smell a bit rich at idle and slow traffic will give me black plugs. Do I want to tweak the trim pot on the computer or will that open up a can of worms.

Exhaust is stock mufflers with a simple crossover pipe.


'98 MG V11 EV
'96 URAL SPORTSMAN
'77 MG 850T3 FB

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2018, 07:39:27 PM »
Then I should completely close both air bypass screws and balance the manifold vacuum on an idling engine by adjusting the Right Hand butterfly stop screw.
The tie rod has to be in place here if I get your meaning. Once you bring up the tps voltage (520mv I thought) you want the tie rod on to bring both tb�s in sync.
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« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 07:46:07 PM by fotoguzzi »
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2018, 08:03:07 PM »
I'm pretty sure that for setting the throttle stop the linkage should be disconnected.  I think the op has it right.

Sorry I can't confirm the numbers.  150 and 525 come to mind.  If it takes more than about 3/4 turn on the air bleeds to get the idle speed right, 500 is too low.

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 08:14:44 PM »
I'm really comfortable with my procedural order.

The TPS and left hand butterfly screw establish a correct butterfly position for the left hand throttle body.
Balancing the vacuum at the right butterfly with the stop screw will set the throttle bodies up as a matched pair.

Then the two butterfly pushrods are installed tweaking the synchronizing screw at the left bell-crank as necessary to make the push rods drop in place WITHOUT MOVING either butterfly.

Fine tune the linkage connection balance with the synchronizing screw and the throttle open enough to clear both butterflies of their idle stop screws.

I'm just looking for GUARANTEED NUMBERS on the two Voltages and the point where they are measured.

Thanks

....and a comment about tweaking the trim pot on the big computer to clean up a rich idle.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 08:16:23 PM by n3303j »
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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 08:14:44 PM »

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2018, 08:29:45 PM »
Here's what I learned about the trim screw.. it takes a few miles of riding for it to set up so half a turn then ride a little on fully warmed up engine. I once turned it too much went riding and after maybe 2 miles it went all bonkers and wouldn't run well at all.
Also it can only turn so far and then fall off the cog so never dial it far like 2 or 3 full turns.
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2018, 11:14:40 PM »
There's no one right way, reading through your procedure it should work.
For a high mileage bike I like to use both idle screws otherwise you may find the idle is not consistent, the idle stops are a fixed point.
I like to back off the idle stops using a slip of paper between the screw and the stop as a feeler gauge, set the screw to just grip the paper
The 150 mV with butterfly fully closed is correct but don't get hung up on the 500/520, that's just a starting point to give you something like the right idling position, better to just set the idle speed IMHO ignoring the mV reading.
You can ignore that step and just use the fast idle lever to get it idling then screw both idle stops in the same number of flats until its idling nicely.
I think most owners start with the air bleeds partially open e.g. 1 turn each.
Just read through a few different procedures and adapt one you like.

As for the TPS, if you have the large P8 ECU you can take the cover off the connector and make a permanent connection to pin 17 (that's what it shows on the attached document)
http://www.dpguzzi.com/efiman.pdf  This document is worth printing out for your EV
If its a 15M ECU there's some confusion some drawings show pin 1 others show pin 11, stick a sewing pin through the wire to make contact and the right one will scan from 150 mv to ~4-1/2 Volts as you open the throttle then you can bare a little insulation and solder a tap into it.
If you attach a wire and end it with a blue butt splice it makes a handy socket for your multimeter probe the negative lead can just go to battery negative or chassis.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 11:37:39 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline JoeB

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2018, 07:06:16 AM »
The original settings stated in early instructions from sources like "Guzziology" for the large P8 box are 150mv baseline, and 378mv +/- 15mv.
The manual link mentioned by Kiwi_Roy is a must have but ignore the instructions there on setting the TPS.
It states to loosen the TPS, wind it up, release and tighten down.  :shocked: Better luck at winning the lottery than having it set properly. At least it didn't work for me!
The trim pot will affect low end mixture. Just mark where you are starting from and adjust slowly 1/4 turn or so at a time. As others stated it takes a while to settle.
I've found if I rev the bike and notice little to no farting out the exhaust as it passes down through 3000 rpm I'm in the ballpark. Seems the leanest point on the curve is around 2800 rpm. Something to do with emission standards at the time. Take a few rides and tweak if needed
 If you check it with a CO meter after this you'll probably find you're going to be a tad rich at idle.
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2018, 10:11:39 AM »
The P8 ECU is 2.1 degrees at idle (378mv), and the 15M ecu is 3.6 degrees at idle (524mv). You have a P8.

Then connect the pushrods under NO TENSION OR COMPRESSION and check vacuum at 1,500-3,000 RPM. Do any imbalance touch up with the balance screw at the LH pushrod link.

The LH pushrod adjust is mainly for off idle balance. Open the throttle a bit to say 2500 RPM, and adjust that pushrod for balance. The idle stop screws (and air bleeds) are for idle balance.

The 98 EV has the dreaded temperature sensor in the valve cover. Those never get the engine temperature and idle mixture right. Some people even install a resistor and switch to bypass the sensor for that reason.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 10:23:14 AM by Wayne Orwig »
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Offline toolittletime

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2018, 08:11:15 PM »
There's no one right way, reading through your procedure it should work.
For a high mileage bike I like to use both idle screws otherwise you may find the idle is not consistent, the idle stops are a fixed point.
I like to back off the idle stops using a slip of paper between the screw and the stop as a feeler gauge, set the screw to just grip the paper
The 150 mV with butterfly fully closed is correct but don't get hung up on the 500/520, that's just a starting point to give you something like the right idling position, better to just set the idle speed IMHO ignoring the mV reading.
You can ignore that step and just use the fast idle lever to get it idling then screw both idle stops in the same number of flats until its idling nicely.
I think most owners start with the air bleeds partially open e.g. 1 turn each.
Just read through a few different procedures and adapt one you like.

As for the TPS, if you have the large P8 ECU you can take the cover off the connector and make a permanent connection to pin 17 (that's what it shows on the attached document)
http://www.dpguzzi.com/efiman.pdf  This document is worth printing out for your EV
If its a 15M ECU there's some confusion some drawings show pin 1 others show pin 11, stick a sewing pin through the wire to make contact and the right one will scan from 150 mv to ~4-1/2 Volts as you open the throttle then you can bare a little insulation and solder a tap into it.
If you attach a wire and end it with a blue butt splice it makes a handy socket for your multimeter probe the negative lead can just go to battery negative or chassis.

I added the wire as described above in red for future use......seems like an excellent idea.

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2018, 09:21:54 PM »
Thanks for all the good information.

TPS set at 150 closed and 378 for idle.
Air bleeds about 1.5 turn open for best mixture and 1.1K RPM.
Balance with the U tube manometer puts the oil columns within a half inch of each other at any RPM from idle to 3K.

Should have done this 20,000 miles ago when I got the bike. It's smoother than its ever been since I've gotten it.
'98 MG V11 EV
'96 URAL SPORTSMAN
'77 MG 850T3 FB

Offline rodekyll

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2018, 08:40:52 AM »
A half inch is too much.  What size hose for your balancer, and what fluid?

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2018, 10:09:38 AM »
A half inch is close enough.. :whip2:  :smiley:
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2018, 01:07:43 PM »
Alrighty then.

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2018, 06:02:54 PM »
A half inch is too much.  What size hose for your balancer, and what fluid?

This is a "U" tube with each end connected to a manifold test port. It is far more sensitive to pressure differentials than a mercury column.

Tube is 5/16" clear vinyl. Fluid of choice is ATF. Doesn't hurt anything if it gets sucked through the intake.

Like this one:
http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp
'98 MG V11 EV
'96 URAL SPORTSMAN
'77 MG 850T3 FB

Offline rodekyll

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Re: 1998 V11EV California Throttle Body Synchronization
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2018, 07:28:28 PM »
I use 3/16 or 1/4" clear tube and used 70w gear oil.  It's very precise and doesn't do the bubbles and bouncy business that less heavy fluids do.  Although I've been informed that 1/2" is acceptable, if I couldn't adjust a healthy engine to dead even with the u tubes I make I'd be embarrassed.

 

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