Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: greer on March 29, 2019, 05:42:50 AM
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Well, Doug made the trip to Sloan's for the brake line recall (a bit over 200 miles round trip) and discovered the final drive leaking on the way home with oil all over the rim, hub, and exhaust. Now, we knew there was a risk when we bought the bike, so we're not complaining, just trying to figure the best approach. Using Scott's thread for reference:
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=92045.0
Scott's bike has a build date 03-16, ours 04-16
Hittman kindly provided me with the info identifying the good run of rear differentials beginning with serial #SM14827, ours is SM01294...??? (We're certain of SM012, the last digits are sketchy as they seem barely stamped and hard to read)
Per Pete, it takes special tools to dissemble the bevel box on the V9
It's considered by some dealers to be a confirmed known issue and resolved by replacing the entire final drive
The previous owner bought our bike in Jan or Feb 2017 so the warranty has expired
We bought the bike a couple of weeks ago and I called Sloan's (talked to Brandon, I think) first thing to inquire about any recalls pending. I also told him we were concerned about a potential final drive leak and being just out of warranty. He'd never heard of the issue but agreed to make note of our expressed concern on the service record. The bike was fine on the trip down yesterday so Doug didn't mention any concerns, just got the recall done and headed home.
So, where to go from here? We bought the bike from the original owner at 1075 miles, it has 13XX on it now. Thanks and please let us hear your thoughts on the matter.
Sarah
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I'd start by calling Sloan's to see if there is anything they can do to help.
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Sloans is a family owned business with 3 generations of Sloan men working their. The elder Bill Sloan sent me a personal hand written note thanking me for my business when I bought the Carbon their.
I've gone on guided dual sport poker run rides with Curtis Sloan, and negotiated directly with Matt Sloan on my purchase.
Give them a call and see if they will go to bat for you with Moto Guzzi. They carry Moto Guzzi because they like the brand. They don't sell many but with 13 brands in house they can afford to keep carrying them.
Provide to them as much evidence as possible about the issue and about Moto Guzzi stepping up to help other owners.
Good Luck
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Oh dear,.
I better keep an eye on mine thanks Sarah, might ask my dealer if it's a potential problem on mine. Replacement sounds expensive 😬😕
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Just for the heck of it Kev, what is the serial # stamped into the bottom of your differential? Look for the shiny milled flat, easy to see once you stand on your head. Ha Ha.
Thanks folks, I will do my best to contact Sloan's today. Please stay tuned.
Sarah
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Just for the heck of it Kev, what is the serial # stamped into the bottom of your differential? Look for the shiny milled flat, easy to see once you stand on your head. Ha Ha.
Thanks folks, I will do my best to contact Sloan's today. Please stay tuned.
Sarah
Hey Sarah, just dragged myself out of bed to look at my bike. Bloody hard to read as you say but my phone camera sort.of got it.. SM014537, is that in the OK range ??
Cheers
Kev
(https://i.ibb.co/zRyj5yP/IMG-20190330-085206.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zRyj5yP)
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Whether you have warranty or not, I hope you get it fixed and running and enjoy the ride.
If you enjoy the bike, if you're riding it in the end, no big deal.
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Whether you have warranty or not, I hope you get it fixed and running and enjoy the ride.
If you enjoy the bike, if you're ridinging it in the end, no big deal.
Agreed .. I emailed my dealer today giving them the number to make them aware of it. Asked if there's anything they can do to fix it under warranty (mines not leaking yet ) or do we just have to wait for the warranty to expire and it to start leaking. Sounds like it could be an expensive repair.
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I talked with Sloan's yesterday and they've asked for the bike, so we''ll head down this morning. Thanks again everybody, I'll keep you posted.
Sarah
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I talked with Sloan's yesterday and they've asked for the bike, so we''ll head down this morning. Thanks again everybody, I'll keep you posted.
Sarah
Hope it turns out good for you guys. :thumb:
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Couldn't have asked for better treatment at Sloan's. Jason plugged our VIN # into the system and confirmed the warranty ran out last month, just our luck, but we knew that going in. He took down all the details and noted that it appeared to be another instance of a well-known issue, and accepted a copy of notes I'd made from researching the forums. We'll see. Thanks again, everybody.
Sarah
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From memory, (I stopped being an 'Official' service agent about this time.) when the V9 was first launched with its new bevelbox etc. it was like the Cali 1400 was when it was first launched. If anything went wrong with the bevelbox the solution was to buy a new one! Even a dodgy seal was considered irreparable!
Thankfully that nonsense was seen to be just that, nonsense, and both boxes now have a selection of special tools available for the pulling apart and fixing of the newer bevelboxes. Can you do it without them? I have no idea, although I haven't found any bit on any Guzzi yet that I haven't been able to McGyver my way around. I do know though that having the correct tools always helps immeasurably and I've never regretted shelling out for them even if they turned out to be pretty lame, (Examples being the alternator belt tool for the 12 and 1400's and the clutch tool for same.)
Pete
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Couldn't have asked for better treatment at Sloan's. Jason plugged our VIN # into the system and confirmed the warranty ran out last month, just our luck, but we knew that going in. He took down all the details and noted that it appeared to be another instance of a well-known issue, and accepted a copy of notes I'd made from researching the forums. We'll see. Thanks again, everybody.
Sarah
So, did you leave the bike with them?
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Yep twowheel, Sloan's kept the bike, and Jason says he thinks the tech should be able to take a look at it in the next few days.
pete, it was you I referenced above regarding the special tools. We were tempted to keep the bike and fly in on it ourselves, but for the worry about the tools needed. From the info Hittman passed along, the actual fix (other than replacing the entire rear diff.) is to use 1000 grit sand paper to polish the surface seal # GU90413 sits on. Evidently a batch was let thru early on with poor machining leaving a rough area that destroys the seal in short order. When researching the V9 early on, Enzo told us Moto Guzzi chose to replace the entire assembly rather than fool with the repair.
Sarah
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Hi guys,
Looks like it is not a problem down under...
The official reply from the Importer is
There is no recall that we are aware of nor any Piaggio notification regarding leaking transmissions.
Hope this helps
Cheers Vicki
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OK, got the bike back from Sloan's yesterday. They determined the oil was from the transmission vent and not the final drive. The tech said the transmission specifies 500cc of fluid, and he drained 1000cc from ours, so grossly over-filled. He said he rode it 50 miles since correcting the fluid level and could not detect a leak anywhere. Doug aims to put miles on it today if the weather will cooperate. Stay tuned.
Sarah
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And there it is. Good news.
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if he feels like a longish ride, there is a guzzi breakfast in georgetown, ky.
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OK, got the bike back from Sloan's yesterday. They determined the oil was from the transmission vent and not the final drive. The tech said the transmission specifies 500cc of fluid, and he drained 1000cc from ours, so grossly over-filled. He said he rode it 50 miles since correcting the fluid level and could not detect a leak anywhere. Doug aims to put miles on it today if the weather will cooperate. Stay tuned.
Sarah
Good news, but unfortunately not a rare occurrence with motorcycles in general.
Some bikes have tricky procedures to check fluid levels. Some bikes have multiple drain plugs and other fasteners that aren't meant to be used as drain plugs. I've seen a few overfilled bikes over the years and read about many more on various forums.
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It's interesting to hear that result, maybe someone filled it up the same as the old V7 / 5 Speed Smallblock capacity spec... I remember hearing of that happening with the first 6 speed V7's too.
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Thanks, everybody. And look out blu guzz, you might find us on your doorstep one of these days. I'll have to say we can't help but be skeptical of the diagnosis, but we're blaming it on paranoia. The sunburst of oil all over the rim and tire looked exactly like the pictures posted in the final drive leak threads, so we didn't investigate further, already feeling doomed as our diff. serial # fell within the range. The tech said he cleaned the bike, sprayed it with powder and went for a ride, saw a leak coming from the transmission vent and no where else. He removed the vent and found it completely gunked, so he cleaned it, added the proper amount of fluid and no further leaks. We are beyond hopeful, and I'll follow up later today. Thanks again.
Sarah
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I'm asking this question out of ignorance so be gentle.
If your final drive serial number falls within the range of known troubles, Why would they not simply deal with it? (Even if that is not the source of your recent trouble.)
John Henry
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Looks like the PO did his own 1st service and did not look in a manual of any kind for a V9.
Glad that Sloans is hanging in there as a dealer and doing things right. They been a great dealer from their start.
If there is no service bulletin on an issue from factory and no issue on said bike it doesn't get fixed. They are not going to fix things that aren't broke.
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Good news, Sarah! I have been waiting to hear the results. Enjoy the ride, now. I'm sure that all will be well with this diagnosis.
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Doug here. The PO did take the bike to a dealer to have the initial service done and even gave us the receipt showing what was done. Evidently they didn't know the amount to put in or the gearbox was filled twice by mistake. I rode it about 40 miles today and still no leaks so hopefully that was the problem. We are still concerned about the issue with the final drive that some have had with the 2016 and early 2017 bikes, especially since we have about a 6,000 mile trip planned this summer. We'll keep you posted.
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Thanks, everybody. And look out blu guzz, you might find us on your doorstep one of these days. I'll have to say we can't help but be skeptical of the diagnosis, but we're blaming it on paranoia. The sunburst of oil all over the rim and tire looked exactly like the pictures posted in the final drive leak threads, so we didn't investigate further, already feeling doomed as our diff. serial # fell within the range. The tech said he cleaned the bike, sprayed it with powder and went for a ride, saw a leak coming from the transmission vent and no where else. He removed the vent and found it completely gunked, so he cleaned it, added the proper amount of fluid and no further leaks. We are beyond hopeful, and I'll follow up later today. Thanks again.
Sarah
Good news indeed ! Can you describe where this vent is or send a pic so I know what to look for Sarah.
Thanks
Kev
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The vent is on top of the transmission and is somewhat like a short chapstick sized cylinder. It lets air that expands out of the transmission. This link might take you to a photo that shows it. Doug https://www.rescogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/2016-Moto-Guzzi-V9-Bobber-Test-Ride-Engine.jpg
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Good news Greer, glad it turned out that way.
Wondering if a thread title change might be in order? What with the hundreds of new V9 owners coming on board, rumors may get started! :whip2:
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Good idea Kidsmoke. Done. I'm going to ride the heck out of it before our trip in June and see what happens. Hope I don't have to change the title again. Doug
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Good news Greer, glad it turned out that way.
Wondering if a thread title change might be in order? What with the hundreds of new V9 owners coming on board, rumors may get started! :whip2:
Now I'm confuzed, all talk up to now has been of a leak in the final drive / bevel box .. now you describe the gearbox itself being over filled ???
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I apologize if we used the wrong terminology, KK. The gearbox was overfilled and leaking from the vent. You'll see it when you click the picture link Doug posted above, find the Agip oil sticker and follow it straight up, the vent is the post at the top of the gearbox.
Sarah
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I read this thread before performing the 1st service on my V9 Roamer. This is good background information, to be sure.
For ours, I simply drained the transmission overnight, then measured a half liter, and poured it in, and then tried to figure out if the fill level was correct. Does anyone know of a way to determine the fill level of these transmissions, other than a "drain and measure" ???
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i believe with the bike level, fluid should come to just barely the bottom of the upper check and fill hole. Pretending that this zero is the hole - 0 here.
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i believe with the bike level, fluid should come to just barely the bottom of the upper check and fill hole. Pretending that this zero is the hole - 0 here.
The service manual states:
Pour in new oil, observing the quantity indicated in the table "capacity"
This must be the NEW ! IMPROVED ! model, that never leaks, and always seeks the proper level by expelling any excess lube.
:thumb:
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I read this thread before performing the 1st service on my V9 Roamer. This is good background information, to be sure.
For ours, I simply drained the transmission overnight, then measured a half liter, and poured it in, and then tried to figure out if the fill level was correct. Does anyone know of a way to determine the fill level of these transmissions, other than a "drain and measure" ???
My experience ONLY with a V7ii six speed which specifies 500mL also. I put 500 mL in the first time, and it puked after hard running on highway at 70 mph. So I concluded that 500 mL is if transmission is new and dry. Now I use 450 ml and all ok. And it hasn't blown up (20,000 km on the clock). I know the V9 is a different motor.
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Same gearbox though.
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I'm finding the term "transmission" confusing. Is it the gearbox or the final drive (bevel box) ? Is there any consistency for this term?
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I'm finding the term "transmission" confusing. Is it the gearbox or the final drive (bevel box) ? Is there any consistency for this term?
The Breva book is somewhat confusing in that respect Dave; I remember reading it and thinking one litre ain't gonna fit in that wee box. :grin:
I tend to refer to them as the gearbox and the diff; ok, I know it's not really a diff but here in Kiwiland most people know what is being referred to.
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We call it the final drive, Moto Guzzi calls it the rear transmission.
https://www.parts-motoguzzi.com/moto-guzzi-motorcycles/850-MOTO-GUZZI-MOTORCYCLES/V9/2017/V9-Roamer/Engine/Rear-transmission--Components/479/42/1253006972/1144
Sarah