Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bad Chad on April 05, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
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But it's spring in the US, and great to be out on two big wheels again. And for all the grief CARC bikes get about being to top heavy, too heavy drive, blah blah, all I know is those claims are BS or at least in the mind of the rider! Yes, my Red Arrow 1100 Breva is a tad boobie up top, but boy does she roll on and ask for more. Too bad Guzzi let them die on the vine, there was some pretty fine engineering put into these soon to be heavily sought after bikes!
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The CARC Guzzis were among the best bikes Guzzi ever built.
They ARE easy too handle - much easier than the Tonties.
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Hoping to finally get our B out this weekend for an extended ride. We have a different seat to try out...and I finally got my leather jacket(aprilia racing) back from the repair shop.
Be careful of the potholes!
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Gearing up to haul a%s up north to DeKalb in the AM? If I come up to see mom this year I'll stop and visit.
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That first ride of Spring after a way too long Winter is something the SoCal guys don't "get." :smiley: I've had many now, and the feeling still hasn't gone away.
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Gearing up to haul a%s up north to DeKalb in the AM? If I come up to see mom this year I'll stop and visit.
That’s the plan!
Be great to see you this summer.
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Tomorrow's weather is looking good here, too. It probably won't be a Guzzi ride, since at age 76, I've apparently lost some lower body strength. When I get into an exercise program to help restore some of this lost strength, it'll be time for me to put the 1200 Sport back on the road. In the meantime, tomorrow's ride will probably either be on one of the other bikes in the stable:
- 1991 BMW R100GS
- 2014 Honda CB1100
That's it, folks. No more bikes in hiding. There's only these two, aside from the Guzzi.
I've owned the '91 Beemer since 1991, and she's recently had more $$ thrown in her direction than I care to admit. But still a great old ride that could carry me around this part of Ohio, or on another trip out West.
The Honda still needs me to do a final sorting out of the front forks, but I'm close. Starting to appreciate Honda's retro bike.
The 1200 Sport has slightly over 68,000 miles on the odometer since purchased as a leftover in 2009. Wonderful machine!
In any event, I'll be out tomorrow, once again on two wheels.
Bob
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I've owned the '91 Beemer since 1991, and she's recently had more $$ thrown in her direction than I care to admit. But still a great old ride that could carry me around this part of Ohio, or to another trip out West.
I honestly don't think there's yet a replacement for the R100GS. I really hoped that the V85TT might do it, but I don't think so. More power, sure. Equal or likely better handling, yes. Character, absolutely. But the same incredible simplicity, accessibility and field serviceability, nope.
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I honestly don't think there's yet a replacement for the R100GS. I really hoped that the V85TT might do it, but I don't think so. More power, sure. Equal or likely better handling, yes. Character, absolutely. But the same incredible simplicity, accessibility and field serviceability, nope.
Obviously, I agree with you, Tusayan. I purchased my R100GS from Andy Pelc Motorcycles, Canton, Michigan, in March of 1991, and have maintained and ridden this bike to slightly over 155,000 miles. I bought the GS without a demo ride, strictly on the say-so of the owner of Heritage BMW in Greensburg PA. I initially thought "what a thrashing machine." That was after several thousand miles on the bullet proof K bikes of the era. After a few thousand miles, the GS and I began to bond. Since then, the GS has been my 'go to' bike for over 28 years.
Obviously, I got over the K bike thing, though I really did/and still do like them. At least for the memories of all the good rides we shared.
Bob
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When my Big Breva is on song there's nothing better I'd rather be on
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Looks like beautiful weather today in Kentucky; must take the Norge for a long ride; getting it ready for a trip to Montana and Idaho, as soon as the high passes out there are clear of snow. Norges are wonderful bikes; sure wish Moto Guzzi would come up with a new version.
Jon
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I suspect the big 1400 California series bikes are wonderful machines. (here comes the 'but.') But I wish that Guzzi had continued to improve the CARC platform. To me, the early 2v Norge is one of the best looking full faired bikes ever, and my 1200 Sport is ideal for anyone that likes minimal (but some) wind protection. Competing against BMW with CARC rather than competing against Harley with a cruiser lineup made better sense to me.
IMHO.
Bob
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I think modeling the range on either BMW or Harley has over the last 15 years proved to be a failed strategy. Building reliable bikes that instead reflect Guzzis nearly 100 years (minus 15!) of developing its its own ideas and values is now proving more successful.
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The CARC platform took an essentially 1970's series of chassis as used on the V11's and bought it up to 21'st century standards. With the 8V motor they capitalised on both tradition and the ideal format for a hi-cam design. I find the whole argument that the CARC bikes somehow tried to mimic BMW disingenuous at best. If that were the case you could say that all Guzzi V twins are basically apeing BMW.
As for the fact that the smallblock series are a success? I think that is more down to the fact that most of the purchasers of the smallblock series like them because they look 'Retro' and care little or nothing about their engine design or performance. Form trumps everything. It has a genuine 1960's-70's chassis and looks. That is what's important to them AND THAT'S FINE and if it keeps the marque afloat? So much the better.
Thing is eventually the worm will turn. Then what? The V85 is a good start to modernising the smallblock range. Technically it has little to interest me and I'm disappointed that the motive package suffers, as new Piaggio/Guzzis always seem to, from penny pinching and half arsed steps. The abandonment of the reactive drive and rising rate rear suspension saddens me a lot but there it is. Many other manufacturers are returning to cantilever rear ends in the interest of cost so I suppose it's sensible for Guzzi to do the same. Removing the gear box oil pump strikes me as far more dubious penny pinching.
Finally I've never understood why they choose to release new models 'Half Baked' and always leave the motor till last as the final series upgrade? They did it with the Griso and now they appear to be doing the same with the V85. There is unquestionably an 8V version of this motor waiting in the wings, whether it will retain pushrods or will take the sensible step and go Hi-Cam nobody outside Piaggio knows yet and they certainly wont be talking, or at least telling the truth about it, anytime soon.
An 8V Hi-Cam, twin throttlebody, RBW controlled smallblock with preferably a reactive rear drive and really well sorted suspension straight out of the crate? There's yer 'Nuovo LeMans' right there. I'd be all over it like a rash! Shut up and take my money!
Pete
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The Griso was conceived as a redo of the Centauro, and was intended by Aprilia to use the Centauro engine... because they had it and in spite of it being expensive to produce. When Piaggio took over and inherited the unproduced concept they had money to redesign the engine too, but to get the bike on the market quickly they decided to sell it for one year (2007) with the 2V per cylinder engine versus using an expensive engine, raising the price to an unrealistic level and killing interest from Day 1.
The spine framed bikes were a late 1980s design, not a 1970s design, introduced by Guzzi in 1993. The Tonti frame was a 1970s design. These facts are fairly well established, so any disingenuity would be in slipping a decade. The original design was a one-off by Tony Foale in the early 80s. John Wittner copied the basic layout for his racebike, subsequently being invited by Alejandro DeTomaso to move to Mandello to help put the bike into production. The first prototype was shown in 1989 or 1990, and full production came in 1993.
The Breva, Norge etc are flat out copies of BMW, telelever emulator and all, ill conceived because it’s always bad business to compete with somebody at their own game. A year after the 1100 Breva was released BMW replaced the R1150 with the R1200 and that was the end of that Aprilia/Piaggio strategy.
I think the big block engines and bikes are done for good. Just like Cagiva/Ducati years ago, Piaggio is concentrating on the cheaper to produce version of its engine (the small block) and will incrementally develop it. Probably, unlike Cagiva, they’ll let sales of one successful model fund development of the next small block iteration. Given the unprecedented reception and marketable power of the V85TT I think there’s a pretty reasonable chance of them doubling or maybe tripling production with a sustainable product line.
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The spine framed bikes were a late 1980s design, not a 1970s design, introduced by Guzzi in 1993. The Tonti frame was a 1970s design. These facts are fairly well established, so any disingenuity would be in slipping a decade. The original design was a one-off by Tony Foale in the early 80s. John Wittner copied the basic layout for his racebike, subsequently being invited by Alejandro DeTomaso to move to Mandello to help put the bike into production. The first prototype was shown in 1989 or 1990, and full production came in 1993.
Oh come on! I'm very aware of Guzzis model history, I know when the various models were designed and produced. My point was that all of those designs were far from cutting edge or even contemporary with other things that were in production. Twin cradle frames like the Tonti, although far less clever, had been around since the fifties but by the 1960's they were almost de-rigeure, Cantilever rear suspension as used on the V11 first appeared on dirt bikes and then transferred across to road bikes with things like the RD-LC series which were seventies designs. That was the point I was making, not trying to re-write the manufacturing history of Mandello or get into a pedantic nit-picking contest about the whys and wherefore.
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The CARC platform took an essentially 1970's series of chassis as used on the V11's and bought it up to 21'st century standards. With the 8V motor they capitalised on both tradition and the ideal format for a hi-cam design. I find the whole argument that the CARC bikes somehow tried to mimic BMW disingenuous at best. If that were the case you could say that all Guzzi V twins are basically apeing BMW.
Pete
Hi, Pete, I didn't intend to imply that Guzzi was following BMW from an engineering standpoint, but only that they built a line-up of bikes made up of comparable models. I can only guess this was started during the Aprilia ownership period.
Guzzi BMW Classification
B1100 R1200 Naked bike
Norge R1200RT Touring
Stelvio R1200GS Adv Tourer
1200S R1200RS Sport Tourer
The Griso was on the road years before BMW brought out their R9T range of bikes. Today, I'd proudly park my 2012 Tenni Green 8vSE (sold 3 years ago) next to any of the current R9T models. That SOB was a cosmetic knockout, and one haul ass bike for a rather heavy machine.
Bob
I personally think Guzzi took a unique approach to their CARC final drive, by controlling movement of the ring gear vs pivoting the entire final drive.