Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: TommyR on May 06, 2019, 12:07:12 AM
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Heck, just 110 miles done on my new MY17 Stelvio and I already have oil leaking out of the sump pan joint to the block.
Has anyone ever seen this lovely leak before?
(https://i.ibb.co/yybwCr9/Oil-Accumulated-in-Sump-Guard-110-miles-5-5-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yybwCr9)
(https://i.ibb.co/J7cZRWb/Oil-on-Garage-Floor-110-miles-5-5-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J7cZRWb)
(https://i.ibb.co/Lt7RM6k/Oil-On-Garage-Floor2-110-miles-5-5-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lt7RM6k)
(https://i.ibb.co/VQHLkLD/Oil-Running-Fown-Back-of-Sump-110miles-5-5-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VQHLkLD)
Tom
removed spammy link -R59
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Dangit , that isn't good , although it is likely an easy fix .
Dusty
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Unfortunately if it's coming from the bell housing it's unlikely to be easy. Engine out job.
Pete
Oh, and check the oil level. It shouldn't be higher than half way between the 'Add' and 'Full' Mark's on the stick. If it's grossly over filled it's probably a blown rear mainseal. There are a couple of other leak points up there as well though. Not as many as the earlier bikes though.
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Bugger me! A new bike too. Looks like an early return to the dealer for service & repair.
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Don't know if these are like the older biikes I know
Had a leak at the sump and it wasn't the gasket (after 3 gasket changes I wised up) it was the rear seal running down the bell housing then around the gap where the sump meets the spacer and looks just like a gasket leak
Obviously as Pete states (when is it not?)
Check oil level
Clean it all up once clean you can use talcum or the like, when you run the bike to ascertain the source, I do hope it's no worse than the gasket.
I've an Sporti that I suspect has blown rear seal and it's going to be a right royal PIA..............en gine out then you can go fix it
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Could be anything looking at your pictures, oil comes from above. You need to clean the bike, and then drive a bit, and then look where it's wet.
And take the tank off, to have a good look from above.
Or let the dealer do it.
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Hello all,
Yes - Pete Roper, thanks - the engine oil level was about 0.5cm about the max fill level on the dipstick. How the hell stuff like this happens at the dealership [I refuse to believe it's the OEM fill in Italy] I`ll never know. Yesterday, In an attempt to see if was simply venting oil, I drained about 0.5 quart out of the sump thus returning the oil level to the top-fill mark on the dipstick, then ran the bike. Alas, I`ve still got oil dripping from the left side rear of the engine. I will call my local dealer today [luckily a different dealer to the useless crew who sold it to me over in CA]. Perhaps at the same time the dealer can remove all the air from my front brake circuit too. Hmm.
Thanks for your input guys....
Tom
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They make a spray on, powder like stuff for tracing leak paths.
Clean everything, then spray it on, watch where the leak is coming from. My guess, like. already mentioned, is overfill.
Good luck!
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Drip.
Those are drips.
Leaks are dessert plate sized.
Something to fix is dinner plate size. Bring more oil until it's winter.
:popcorn:
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Drip.
Those are drips.
Leaks are dessert plate sized.
Something to fix is dinner plate size. Bring more oil until it's winter.
:popcorn:
Said the guy who wears depends :laugh:
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THAT is so rude.
I'm playing defense for Chuck while trying to improve the conversational climate for my future self. R3~
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THAT is so rude.
I'm playing defense for Chuck while trying to improve the conversational climate for my future self. R3~
It's called sarcasm, I have known Chuck for a looong time. But just for you I will hold up a sign next time. :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/MV4M6qK/sheldon.png) (https://ibb.co/MV4M6qK)
img uploader (https://imgbb.com/)
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That’s a shame. What also concerns me is why is that oil so dark? The oil in my new Stelvio - 300 miles - is crystal clear. Unless you off road into the La Brea tar pits, I don’t understand. Is something else going on?
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That’s a shame. What also concerns me is why is that oil so dark? The oil in my new Stelvio - 300 miles - is crystal clear. Unless you off road into the La Brea tar pits, I don’t understand. Is something else going on?
I would say the first oil change is very important. New parts are just breaking in, mating together, that would explain some dirt/debris in the oil.
Part of break in usually includes frequent short run time, which makes condensation.
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I would probably drain the original oil and do a change with the PROPER amount (see Pete's post). Clean it up real good and see what happens.
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I would probably drain the original oil and do a change with the PROPER amount (see Pete's post). Clean it up real good and see what happens.
I wouldn't do anything but let the dealer figure it out and fix it. Isn't that one of the many perks of a new bike?
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I wouldn't do anything but let the dealer figure it out and fix it. Isn't that one of the many perks of a new bike?
Yea, but that depends on the "dealer", and how far away.
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check your breather hose(s)...
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I would probably drain the original oil and do a change with the PROPER amount (see Pete's post). Clean it up real good and see what happens.
I agree. Change the oil (proper level) clean the engine up check and make sure there's not a ton of oil in your air box and ride it.
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I would assume engine oil for various reasons...photo the main one.
It could also be trans oil... it's easy to tell- factory ENI oil in the trans has a bit of a sulfur smell. The crank case oil does not.
I had a similar issue- except my clutch plate spring retainer let loose and lodged into the trans case. Drop engine, split trans, replace case half, reassemble. Not for the faint of heart, but doable at home. Dropping/installing the engine was the biggest PITA of the entire project.
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Pull the lid to the airbox. If the bottom is full of oil the bike was over-filled. Mop it up, change the oil and you should be good to go. It take literally a pint over-full to create an Exxon Valdez spill on your garage floor. Don't trust the capacity listed in the manual. Check the oil with the engine warm, dipstick resting in the fill opening and the bike level. That's the factory suggested method. I actually fill with oil until it's at the top mark with the dipstick screwed in. I find the black plastic dipsticks kind of hard to read so I drill a couple very small holes in the fins of the stick. Oil fills the hole which makes reading the level much easier. Good luck!
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Latest and greatest on my oil leak. 5/11 My local dealer [Detroit Iron Cycles - great guys] took in the bike, told me he cleaned everything, checked the oil level, checked the airbox, removed the tanks, checked everything, rode the bike then left it on its side stand and on it's center stand. No leak. Cool. I picked up the bike yesterday 5/18, rode it 25 miles home, put it on the side stand...drip, drip, drip all over my shop floor. Rode it back to the dealer...drip, drip, drip all over his floor. Dealer pulled off the little plastic inspection cover on the right side of the flywheel housing. There, lo and behold, was lots of oil. The starter ring gear has been throwing oil all over the inside of the flywheel housing. Thus, must be a blown rear main seal or o-ring. Bike has to go back next weekend for an engine-out. I`m insisting on a new main seal and a new o-ring. Lets see!!! Not good news for a brand new bike but it's really clear to me this bike must have been abused at the original dealership, Eurocycle Sonoma of Windsor, CA. That's the penalty of buying a bike with some miles already on the clock due presumably to test rides by prospective buyers.
Cheers - Tom
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The seal failure likely has nothing to do with how the bikes been ridden. Sometimes seals are flawed from the factory, or the sealing surface has a tiny flaw that damages the seal. When I was about 16 I replaced two rear main seals in a row on my dad's car, requiring engine removal both times, before the third one functioned properly. That was frustrating.
A bike with say 3000 miles on it is more likely to have had any infant mortality issues worked out. That's why new bikes with zero miles have warranties, although personally I'd rather buy used and possibly avoid some hassles.
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110 miles?
I'd take it back and have my bank pull the check.
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I wouldn't do anything but let the dealer figure it out and fix it. Isn't that one of the many perks of a new bike?
The warranty repair of my 2017 Stelvio with 611 miles on it got approved by Moto Guzzi, with Moto Guzzi paying $269.20 to the dealership for the repair. This dealership (to the south of us, @Cage Free) sent me this in an email:
"The difference that you will be responsible for is $124.37. This difference is for the extra time that the technician will need in order to complete the work that is not reimbursed my Moto Guzzi.
When submitting for warranty coverage with the various manufacturers we carry, it is often the case that there is difference between what the manufacturer is willing to reimburse us for, and the amount that the repair actually cost to perform. This is because the manufacturer supplied flat rate labor times are extremely optimistic, and do not reflect a realistic amount of time for completion of repairs."
Before this eye opener, I would have agreed to "let the dealer figure it out and fix it." In my case (very different complexity level than what @TommyR needs), I did the repair myself.
I post this not to bash the dealership, but instead to educate Guzzi fans about new bike perk possibilities. Owner of the dealership seemed angry I purchased my Stelvio at a different dealership, this could be relevant, but that is speculation.
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110 miles?
I'd take it back and have my bank pull the check.
I'd be looking at that route also. Pulling the engine, replacing the main seal.....bad start in my opinion.
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110 miles?
I'd take it back and have my bank pull the check.
Note the OP bought the bike from a dealer in CA but OP lives in Michigan. "taking it back" ain't an option....neither is "pulling the check". It's still a warranty claim to be done by the dealer in Detroit.
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Hard test rides won't wreck a seal. Just bad luck. Just be thankful he's willing to fix it and smile when u pay up. Many won't now days
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So the original dealer had put way too much oil in it, is that correct? So I assume that contributed to (or caused) the seal/o-ring to blow out?
Whew, hope they take care of you. I assume you are looking at 6-8 weeks in the shop? (tear down, parts order, etc)
Stories like these make a V-Strom look more attractive. :grin:
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So the original dealer had put way too much oil in it, is that correct? So I assume that contributed to (or caused) the seal/o-ring to blow out?
Whew, hope they take care of you. I assume you are looking at 6-8 weeks in the shop? (tear down, parts order, etc)
Stories like these make a V-Strom look more attractive. :grin:
Be careful, I went there a few weeks ago with the vstrom question and it got nasty:)
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The two responders to this post who advised to take it back and pull the check, clearly live in some sort of self induced world of perceived superiority. First that is illegal, second I didn`t write a check, third the bike is covered under warranty. So, if you can`t make decent professional / technical contributions to this post then perhaps watching children's TV cartoons might be a better reality for you....
Now lets get serious. It's highly unlikely for a brand new seal to leak right out of the factory, but this bike is a MY2017 and therefore it's date of manufacture is probably in the calender year of 2016, thus it's been sitting for about 2 to 3 years "in the system" and i got a damned good deal on the MSRP. The engine had been overfilled at some point, i found the oil level to be 0.5 inches above the max fill level on the dipstick. I also found in the trip counters that between 0 and 110 miles whewn i got it, some dude had achieved a max speed of 100mph on the bike - a worrying indication of abuse at the original dealership. There were other indications of abuse at the original dealership including a smashed corner on the left pannier bag, an incorrectly installed new left riding light, and a broken left rearview mirror wire. But at the end of the day, the bike is generally superb and these are just annoyances that will get fixed at the expense of the dealer and Piaggio. If anything else comes up on the bike, i will deal with it, fix it and keep riding with a smile.
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TommyR: That is a great outlook. I am sure once it is sorted, you will have a great bike. Ride on.
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The two responders to this post who advised to take it back and pull the check, clearly live in some sort of self induced world of perceived superiority. First that is illegal, second I didn`t write a check, third the bike is covered under warranty. So, if you can`t make decent professional / technical contributions to this post then perhaps watching children's TV cartoons might be a better reality for you....
Seems a bit harsh.
Many of us have had experience with Guzzi over the past years (18 for me) that would indicate that the "cut your losses and start over again" path MIGHT be the only one to success. The dealer may have all the best intentions in the world, but if Guzzi doesn't back them, and they often don't (as many owners and dealers here can attest), then the dealer will be doing every lick of work and parts buying for your bike out of his own pocket, literally. Sometimes that doesn't end well.
Maybe not "stop payment on the check", but maybe "Hey, here's the bike, please let me have my money back, and we'll do something different."
Or go the path you're going; it MIGHT work out and if it does, that would be great.
Lannis
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I agree with Lannis about the “harshness “ of your assessment of the two members who offered possible alternatives, as you asked for opinions and advice from the forum members. Most of these guys has a vast amount collective knowledge and experience with dealing with Moto Guzzi dealerships as well as the mother company. Therefore the bottom line is simple, it’s your baby, deal with it as you see fit and if you are going to criticize the guys here for their responses, then don’t ask. No offense intended Sir.
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That's a really nice bike. :thumb:
:bike-037:
lol - I never seem to get an oil leak when under any sort of warranty. The most recent was a Yamaha Roadliner and I had to remove the engine from the frame. And everything else.
Post up some pics when ya get a chance.
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Now lets get serious. It's highly unlikely for a brand new seal to leak right out of the factory, but this bike is a MY2017 and therefore it's date of manufacture is probably in the calender year of 2016, thus it's been sitting for about 2 to 3 years "in the system" and i got a damned good deal on the MSRP. The engine had been overfilled at some point, i found the oil level to be 0.5 inches above the max fill level on the dipstick.
The age of the seal (three years old) is irrelevant to this situation. It's neither common nor hugely unlikely for a brand new seal to leak out of the factory. It happens occasionally, generally as a result of installation technique at the factory.
The seal may leak if the engine is flooded with oil, but is unlikely to be permanently damaged.
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I thought about a V-strom, and could have saved about $2K on one vs my Stelvio. But then I would be riding a V-strom. I am just not a V-strom kind of guy, I guess.
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Chill fellas .
Dusty
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Best of luck to you. I hope you have many happy miles. :thumb:
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The warranty repair of my 2017 Stelvio with 611 miles on it got approved by Moto Guzzi, with Moto Guzzi paying $269.20 to the dealership for the repair. This dealership (to the south of us, @Cage Free) sent me this in an email:
"The difference that you will be responsible for is $124.37. This difference is for the extra time that the technician will need in order to complete the work that is not reimbursed my Moto Guzzi
I personally wouldn't let that stop or slow the progress of the repair. Guzzi riders are cheap sometimes but that charge seems reasonable to me and I would even go so far as to offer a completion bonus if the repair can be done quickly. Parts supply should not be a problem. Otherwise sell the damn thing , you got a good price buying it, maybe you can cut your losses that way. It's probly only a seal and should not be a reliability issue
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One thing for me personally is my guzzi is the only bike I’ve owned that had character, a “ soul” if you will. I dunno why Italian mechanical things have it but they do! Good luck with that stelvio!
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Grand update on the new Stelvio Oil Leak. My local Dealer [Detroit Iron Cycles who I have to say, are my bloody hero's...awesome guys], happily took in the bike and even though I`d brought it elsewhere, spent 32 hours over 5 days removing the engine, opening the engine, and finding that the Guzzi factory had not bothered to put any RTV gasket on the flange of the rear crankshaft bearing housing. Consequently, oil was running past the flange, filling the flywheel housing and leaking out everywhere. The oil leak looked black because it was full of worn clutch friction paper material. After rebuilding the bike the problem was solved. The dealership told me that despite his best mechanic needing 32 hours to do this job [to get the engine out requires a strip down of pretty much the entire damned bike] Piaggio only reimbursed him for 6.5 hours. However, despite that Detroit Iron Cycles were willing to bump my bike to the front of their service line so I could make a trip I had planned. A week after I got my bike back, they even called me to check in and make sure all was ok. Excellent service.
One other note towards this entire post. I have to say some of the folk who contributed notes were particularly unhelpful. Advice such as, just ignore it and keep topping up the engine is "really good advice" when the leaking oil is spattering all over the rear tire or dripping on my garage floor. I tend to use this bikes for 10 day x 3500mile tours. Good one guys!! Other advice like, take the bike back and pull the check is even more dumb. It's not legal to pull an issued check....and furthermore I didn`t write a check for it anyway. It's probably best for these guys to avoid motorbikes and stay with mowing the lawn or something.
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Tom, I think you pretty much calculated the value for "free advice".
Enjoy the ride.
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Grand update on the new Stelvio Oil Leak. My local Dealer [Detroit Iron Cycles who I have to say, are my bloody hero's...awesome guys], happily took in the bike and even though I`d brought it elsewhere, spent 32 hours over 5 days removing the engine, opening the engine, and finding that the Guzzi factory had not bothered to put any RTV gasket on the flange of the rear crankshaft bearing housing. Consequently, oil was running past the flange, filling the flywheel housing and leaking out everywhere. The oil leak looked black because it was full of worn clutch friction paper material. After rebuilding the bike the problem was solved. The dealership told me that despite his best mechanic needing 32 hours to do this job [to get the engine out requires a strip down of pretty much the entire damned bike] Piaggio only reimbursed him for 6.5 hours. However, despite that Detroit Iron Cycles were willing to bump my bike to the front of their service line so I could make a trip I had planned. A week after I got my bike back, they even called me to check in and make sure all was ok. Excellent service.
One other note towards this entire post. I have to say some of the folk who contributed notes were particularly unhelpful. Advice such as, just ignore it and keep topping up the engine is "really good advice" when the leaking oil is spattering all over the rear tire or dripping on my garage floor. I tend to use this bikes for 10 day x 3500mile tours. Good one guys!! Other advice like, take the bike back and pull the check is even more dumb. It's not legal to pull an issued check....and furthermore I didn`t write a check for it anyway. It's probably best for these guys to avoid motorbikes and stay with mowing the lawn or something.
Tommy,
Hat's off to Detroit Iron Cycle! That's a dealer with a good attitude!
Enjoy your Stelvio, a CARC is a wonderful thing. :bike-037:
Hunter
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In England , if your buy a vehicle that proves unsatisfactory within the first 30 days, you can reject it. If something goes wrong between 1 and 6 months, the dealer has one chance to repair it, or he can replace it straight off. Thereafter, you're dependent on the warranty, but you'll not be expected to contribute to the dealer's labour charge. That's between him and the manufacturer,
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some dude had achieved a max speed of 100mph on the bike - a worrying indication of abuse at the original dealership
100mph on a 1000cc+ motorcycle is no great shakes, just depends where and in what circumstances it was done.
If I were buying a used bike it wouldn't worry me half as much as poorly assembled engine from the factory!
Hats off to the repairers though...above and beyond.
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If over filling the engine to just over the Full mark on the oil dipstick can blow the rear main seal, that’s very likely the fault of the selling dealer.
If filling the engine to the Full mark on the dipstick can make the engine blow oil out the breather system etc, that’s the fault of Moto Guzzi.
If the local servicing dealer will correctly fix it for under $150 that’s fantastic. Sincerely thank them with a smile on your face and a hearty handshake.
If the Moto Guzzi parts supply system doesn’t have everything needed to correct this in stock; again, that’s the fault of Moto Guzzi.
Glad to read such wonderful support from Detroit Iron Cycles. Awesome.
Yes, the V Strom does very well for good reason. Great bikes with a great dealership. Imagine that.
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It is great to hear about a superlative dealer taking care of you so well. Detroit Iron Cycles definitely sounds like a place that should be supported!!
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Grand update on the new Stelvio Oil Leak. My local Dealer [Detroit Iron Cycles who I have to say, are my bloody hero's...awesome guys], happily took in the bike and even though I`d brought it elsewhere, spent 32 hours over 5 days removing the engine, opening the engine, and finding that the Guzzi factory had not bothered to put any RTV gasket on the flange of the rear crankshaft bearing housing. Consequently, oil was running past the flange, filling the flywheel housing and leaking out everywhere. The oil leak looked black because it was full of worn clutch friction paper material. After rebuilding the bike the problem was solved. The dealership told me that despite his best mechanic needing 32 hours to do this job [to get the engine out requires a strip down of pretty much the entire damned bike] Piaggio only reimbursed him for 6.5 hours. However, despite that Detroit Iron Cycles were willing to bump my bike to the front of their service line so I could make a trip I had planned. A week after I got my bike back, they even called me to check in and make sure all was ok. Excellent service.
One other note towards this entire post. I have to say some of the folk who contributed notes were particularly unhelpful. Advice such as, just ignore it and keep topping up the engine is "really good advice" when the leaking oil is spattering all over the rear tire or dripping on my garage floor. I tend to use this bikes for 10 day x 3500mile tours. Good one guys!! Other advice like, take the bike back and pull the check is even more dumb. It's not legal to pull an issued check....and furthermore I didn`t write a check for it anyway. It's probably best for these guys to avoid motorbikes and stay with mowing the lawn or something.
Super glad to hear your problem was solved. And huge kudo's to Detroit Iron Cycle for stepping up and making a positive difference. A former boss of mine had a sign in his office "everyone here brings happiness; some by entering, others by leaving". Peace out man, your bike is up and running. :bike-037:
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First, you need to identify the cause and location of the drip. Worst case scenario is a blown rear main seal, but if this happened every time someone or a service tech overfilled their oil, this would happen all the time. Check your engine oil, trans oil, and try to identify exactly where it is coming from. Hard to do over the internet....
Once you confirm all oil levels are in range, and the source of the drip/leak, you will have a better idea where to go.
I had oil blown all over the left side of my motor on the MGX's inaugural ride home, turned out some of the casting on the head prevented a complete seal of the breather and thus spatter of oil. Frustrating on a new bike, but it was a 30 minute affair to remove tank, remove breather, clean things up, shave down the casting marks, then put some sealer and reattach the breather 3K miles later and all is well.
Take your time, find the source, communicate with your servicing dealer so they can document it. No need for the dram a vitriol some are indication..... Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, classy is always right...
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Outdtanding attitude from Detroit Iron Cycles!
Way beyond the call of duty, in my opinion.
I really hope your problem is fixed. Seems Detroit Iron now might have some risk on their hands?
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Good to see the problem has been resolved , kudos to Detroit Iron .
Dusty
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Hi to all,
after a very spirited ride last September there was a pool of oil under my stelvio, not a drop but a 1/4 cup.
Worries,clean ups and it stopped,reappearing from time to time but
not enough anymore to worry too much (I also ride flat tankers and other old Brit irons so a few drops of oil dont send me into a panic.)
Anyway by June this year it got bad again ;so tank was off , all the breather hoses were fine but the oil pressure sender plastic cap was cracked , a 10€ fix.
the oil was squirting backwards.
My two pence worth.
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Good to hear it's sorted. I hope they performed all the checks on the oil dowel length and used a new dowel o-ring as well? Also I hope the mention of RTV was your interpretation rather than what they used as it is a far from good choice of sealant for this application.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/950/40336109250_302b05069b_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/956/41241688895_6a368f3766_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/962/41241688085_ea4dddd661_z.jpg)
That one was off a much earlier model, a 2009 Griso from memory, that were built with a couple of defects. The bloke who butchered that one didn't have the flange puller either so he drove the flange out from the inside with a screwdriver used as a punch! This was his third attempt from memory but he kept missing the real source of the leak which was too long an oil feed dowel and bolts in the lower two flange bolt holes and he kept fitting a gasket which was deleted as part of the fix.
Pete
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Ahh, Pete, you certainly have seen some shaved apery. :grin:
RTV is not allowed here at the Ancient Airlines maintenance facility, by the way.