Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yodastien on May 06, 2019, 12:03:46 PM
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Does any one know if there is a cam I can get for my V7 racer? I would like a little bit more power
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This place lists two different high lift cams for small blocks.They have different valve timing too probably. One is from Scola who did a lot of tuning work on racing big blocks
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This place lists two different high lift cams for small blocks.They have different valve timing too probably. One is from Scola who did a lot of tuning work on racing big blocks
Wich Place?
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https://guzziepiu.de/shop/
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Getting more anything from a Herron head smallblock is like getting blood from a stone and an excercise in futility.
Pete
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This place lists two different high lift cams for small blocks.They have different valve timing too probably. One is from Scola who did a lot of tuning work on racing big blocks
Hi there. Can you tell approximately how much power the new block can give us? I just wont to understand whether this is necessary or not. Thanks.
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Hi there. Can you tell approximately how much power the new block can give us? I just wont to understand whether this is necessary or not. Thanks.
Tomas - just out of curiosity, what year (model) racer? If it's a Heron head the conventional wisdom is that with the amount of money you might spend on say a second bike (like a used Ducati) you still won't be as fast as said second bike.
NOW I also get the impression that the Hemi heads breath better and there might be more of a benefit to trying this on a V7III.
Of course if you HAVE a I or II and then BOUGHT a III you would instantly gain about 25% more power. Just saying.
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No snark intended , seeking any significant power increase from a Heron head Small Block is an exercise in futility . Don't believe the dyno charts from anyone trying to sell you aftermarket performance parts for a Heron Head Guzzi , nothing but snake oil . Some years ago the shop that looks after Billy Joel's Guzzis performed thousands of dollars in engine mods , skimmed the head , different cam , exhaust , etc . Seem to remember they picked up maybe 2 HP at near redline :shocked: :laugh:
Dusty
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I am looking at the 4v conversion but i have considered ordering the new v3 cylinders and heads and some big bore pistons
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I am looking at the 4v conversion but i have considered ordering the new v3 cylinders and heads and some big bore pistons
You can't bore Nikasil cylinders . Seriously , just wait for the V85 engine in a roadster .
Dusty
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I am looking at the 4v conversion but i have considered ordering the new v3 cylinders and heads and some big bore pistons
I don't think it would be that simple...
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I don't think it would be that simple...
It isn't , except for someone like Pate , or Steve , or Martin . Those guys can do all kinds of amazing stuff us mere mortals are incapable of :shocked:
Dusty
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I'm going to have to take down a 650 lump sooner or later and suspect that the piston to head clearance could be tightened up a bit.The inlet and outlet ports could probably be cleaned up a touch too. There won't be much at all in hp gains but I'm convinced that blueprinting engines is a good thing and seeing how far out my big block components was surprising.Putting in a cam with higher lift would liven things up a bit as the standard small block ones are as much lawnmower as it's bigger brothers.
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After loads of cash, time, and frustration, you'll end up with a . . still very slow bike.
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I'm going to have to take down a 650 lump sooner or later and suspect that the piston to head clearance could be tightened up a bit.The inlet and outlet ports could probably be cleaned up a touch too. There won't be much at all in hp gains but I'm convinced that blueprinting engines is a good thing and seeing how far out my big block components was surprising.Putting in a cam with higher lift would liven things up a bit as the standard small block ones are as much lawnmower as it's bigger brothers.
I believe there is a major difference between the smallblock and big blocks in terms of head design and the is the limiting factor. The heron head.
That is why I wonder if there is more to be found messing with the new V7III and its Hemi head.
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It's for a 650 NTX Kristian....enduro bike with the gear set from the 500's so not chaseing after more kph, just want to perk it up a bit more. Probably won't bother with the cam but the rest costs hardly anything other than time and will improve performance for sure .
As for going for the v7 111 lump kev it's more a matter of finding one.If one is available for a good price then sure, why not !
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of course it is about what you can find, we are Guzzisti !
Lario top ends if you can find, even with std cam & carbs absolute chalk and cheese v heron heads still superb fuel economy
v9 wreck or leftover another good start
esp. cos of rear drive getting rid of coupler
I have to have one of them for my hot lario, can’t see coupler lasting long with any serious power through it
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I am thumbs up on the Heron heads. The stuff of vintage fighter airplanes and race cars.
Good for Guzzi for sticking w them.
Joe
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I too like the Heron heads. Just cool, weird, old stuff.
And to the OP. No disrespect. But there is really no earthly reason to try to hot rod a small block. The stock motor is very tractable, reliable, durable, and enjoyable. I think it’s a peach. Enjoy it for what it is.
It will cruise at 85+ mph all day. Will out accelerate virtually all cars.
If you really want another 3, 5, 7 horsepower, get a more powerful bike.
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a good blueprint , raised compression, pipe and bigger carbs make a huge difference to a V65,
i used to run a V65TT with these mods.
right now i would love a hot camshaft for my lario, but it is not worth the 500 euro guzziepiu is asking for theirs..
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I too like the Heron heads. Just cool, weird, old stuff.
I reference the book Racing Engine Preparation by Clive Trickey. Pages 22 - 24 where he recommends the Heron head and points to their successful use by the Ford and Cosworth racing engines.
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Try This:
(https://i.ibb.co/0KpBptt/Moto-guzzi-w103-engine-00.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0KpBptt)
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I'm going to have to take down a 650 lump sooner or later and suspect that the piston to head clearance could be tightened up a bit.The inlet and outlet ports could probably be cleaned up a touch too. There won't be much at all in hp gains but I'm convinced that blueprinting engines is a good thing and seeing how far out my big block components was surprising.Putting in a cam with higher lift would liven things up a bit as the standard small block ones are as much lawnmower as it's bigger brothers.
Have a Domi myself. Brought it over from Italy last year...rode it to work today. There's ALOT of aftermarket for the engine as it's the same as the US spec XR650L.
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Meanwhile, I think the heron head Moto Morini 350 may have been the most powerful 350cc in the 70's, possibly even in the 80's (supposedly a bit over 40hp on the sport). I own a standard GT model, and there's definitely a big difference between it and a V35 Guzzi. Also got a Kanguro (enduro) model overbored to 400cc (but kept it at low compression), and I swear it seems to accelerate a lot better than my 750 Breva. Probably has a lot to do with the flywheel weight too... But if you go into theory, with two valves per cylinder, a Heron head has some advantages too (more squish, better burn, higher intake speeds...). My friend also raced with a 350 Morini, overbored to 500cc, with milled Yamaha R1 pistons inside, and that thing is just amazing for a 500cc two cylinder bike...
But of course, here's a stock morini piston:
(http://www.motomoriniclub.nl/img0053.jpg)
And here is what a V7 uses:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T-7PKzKRY50/UAYTRgK0Q2I/AAAAAAAABqc/_PPhFLh6pv0/s1600/bigbore.JPG)
I doubt a Guzzi is anywhere near as tuned as it could be, and there aren't many people who'd make decent performance parts for a heron setup.
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F-22,
Here's a picture of the V7 big bore (820cc) piston from R.A.M. of Italy. The valve cutouts here, and on the orig V7 are smoother and less abrupt than the Morini. I think it's better, although I admire Morini's output and performance.
Joe
(https://i.ibb.co/rHmVFMk/SDC10144.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rHmVFMk)
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Always wanted a Moto Morini 3 1/2. Seemed like an Italian version of a Yamaha RD-350, except 4 stroke. And a bit more civilized. Maybe one day.
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Why fret about small horsepower gains?
But you got some room to add a lot more foot/pounds ...
(https://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic008/just-people-power_zps1wt2x3ke.png)
:grin: of torque.
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F-22,
Here's a picture of the V7 big bore (820cc) piston from R.A.M. of Italy. The valve cutouts here, and on the orig V7 are smoother and less abrupt than the Morini. I think it's better, although I admire Morini's output and performance.
Joe
(https://i.ibb.co/rHmVFMk/SDC10144.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rHmVFMk)
I just think a 750cc Guzzi with a Heron head could still easily do ~70hp, if a much smaller bike managed to make over 100hp/litre. Not sure what the big difference would be. I also heard the Morini engineers spent a lot of time on getting the ports just right. I don't think Guzzi ever really wanted to pull more performance out of those engines (except for the new V85TT, that one seems decent, although it has the new heads), and even the hemi head V7's aren't exactly high performance... They might have only went that way to make the engines more conventional, since noone uses heron design anymore.
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Not high performance but still the V7III makes about 20% more rwhp than the V7C and complies with stricter emissions standards. That's not insignificant.
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Heron, all the way. It accentuates low-mid range torque, best for real world riding. As opposed to magazine/race track tests that are all about high rpm performance.
Do you want to live in the real world, or live just to satisfy some red-line cowboys.
Joe
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Heron, all the way. It accentuates low-mid range torque, best for real world riding. As opposed to magazine/race track tests that are all about high rpm performance.
Do you want to live in the real world, or live just to satisfy some red-line cowboys.
Joe
You really should put some miles on a new hemi head smallblock. You would likely not type such silly things then.
Or maybe just pull up some Dyno sheets and compare.
But here are some thoughts:
* When Jay and I rode his V7C back to back with my then new MkI Stone we noted the 1TB Heron head seemed to be even more torquey and felt happier than the 2TB at about 300-500 rpm lower.
* The hemi head V7III Dyno sheet from Motorcycle.Com clearly shows the III makes equal or more torque than the MKII from 2200-6100 rpm, definitely MORE by 3000 rpm, and from 3k on up is already making more than 40 ft lbs which means more torque than the V7C ever makes anywhere on the curve.
What those facts tell us is there's nothing about it that is designed just to appeal to red-line cowboys.
My own experience suggests it simply improves upon what I already like about my Heron head smallblock.
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:thumb:
I just think a 750cc Guzzi with a Heron head could still easily do ~70hp, if a much smaller bike managed to make over 100hp/litre. Not sure what the big difference would be. I also heard the Morini engineers spent a lot of time on getting the ports just right. I don't think Guzzi ever really wanted to pull more performance out of those engines (except for the new V85TT, that one seems decent, although it has the new heads), and even the hemi head V7's aren't exactly high performance... They might have only went that way to make the engines more conventional, since noone uses heron design anymore.
:thumb:
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And pigs could fly if they just had wings...
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Yawn......Ed Millich proved that there's quite a lot to gain from a Guzzi heron .... and not just on a dyno.
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Yawn......Ed Millich proved that there's quite a lot to gain from a Guzzi heron .... and not just on a dyno.
Not for nothing but it took:
"V65 Racebike Dyno Run Mark II by Ed Milich
This is a dyno run for a modified V65 with:
fresh motor
stock cam
stock 30mm carbs
stock exhaust header
big K+N filters
open Bub pipe setup
...and here we go with the good stuff...
Bruce Meyers heads with oversized valves and porting
~12:1 compression via trimmed stock pistons and cylinders
reduced squish"
To get 49 rwhp/41 ft lbs of torque, which is only 1 hp more and less torque than a stock, emissions restricted V7III
He managed 2 hp more, but still less torque, by adding 36mm carbs.
I'm not diminishing his efforts (I'm a happy customer of his), but certainly it takes quite a bit just to match what the hemi head III does while meeting modern noise and emissions standards.
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Yawn......Ed Millich proved that there's quite a lot to gain from a Guzzi heron .... and not just on a dyno.
I agree, and the Heron head gives a better real world riding experience. Better torque at low and medium rpm. I know, it doesn't make magazine reviewers happy, but that's where people really ride. This red line nonsense is just that.
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I agree, and the Heron head gives a better real world riding experience. Better torque at low and medium rpm.
Except that we already demonstrated it doesn't. :laugh: