Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: guzzista on May 11, 2019, 12:57:24 PM
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Asides from the obvious " you get what you pay for" ( or do you ?) all kinds of aftermarket regulator/ rectifiers are available, not just from Ebay slingers , but some specialized sellers as in Rick's, Electrosport, Euro Moto Electric and Roadster Cycle Shindengens. Perhaps this has been posted on an individual basis, but it may be nice to post actual experiences in how it turned out in your case. Also interesting would be how those units are dealing with batteries other than regular flooded lead acid( wet) batteries, such as Odyssey, Motobatt, Shorai etc, as some sellers discourage their use
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I installed the EME fixed voltage regulators in both my 850T3 and a BMW R100RT I owned to handle the slightly increased charge voltage Odyssey recommends.
I sold the R100RT with all parts working as advertised.
The 850 T3 Odyssey 925 currently has 10 years on it and all works as it's supposed to. Alternator rotor quit 2 years ago (after only 40 years) and I replaced it with the more expensive of the two offered by EME. Looks well made and works as advertised.
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Roy & Wayne will be along soon :bow:
For my limited knowledge, there are 2 ways to control voltage with a permanent magnet generator (probably universal since the mid 90s and still very common before that).
Short the generator terminals, AKA Shunt Regualtor, this drops the Voltage to close to zero. The downside is the byproduct is heat so the RR has to get reject it and gets hot (also the connnections and wires running to the RR).
Open the generator terminals, AKA Series Regualtor, O/C so no current but high voltages can be generated in the generator stator. If it's not designed for this there is a chance that the insulation will breakdown. Used Roy told me on the Earlier single phase Ducati Energia equipped bikes, like Sportis, Daytonas, Centauros and probablly a few more
The third type is excitation control using an electro magnet as used in almost all the Tonti bikes & beemers of that era (later Caliis being an exception)
As far as manufacturers, I'm using a Sacshe RR on the LM1000 and it works and has never given me a moments trouble (that is an excitation controlled system)
The only other one I've replaced is on a Ducati where I replaced the OEM with a Shindengen FH020AA (Shunt Regulator) on a 1098, its been great. Many Many on the Ducati forum, have did this and nobody but nobody has posted up a failure
They are not for regular Guzzi owners as they are not cheap (beware of the Chinese Look-a-Likeys).
I went that route as I dislike EuroMotoElectric, they place restrictions on some RRs and will not give you details of how their RRs work (Shindnegen did produce schematics at least)
Just my experience
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I've also been using regulators from EME with no problems. Mostly on Cal series, the originals crap out sooner than I think they should. I use them with absorbed mat batteries like Oddesy but I think on the EME website says the warranty does not cover regulators used with absorbed matt batteries but I don't know why that would be
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I've got a Sachse combined regulator/rectifier on the bosch alternator in my T3.The charge light goes out at a higher rpm than with the previous set up but doesn't come back on again until the revs are really low.Voltage output and charging are good but it's early days.....
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JohnA
It's because AGMs have lower internal resistance so can absorb discharge a little faster than lawn/tractor liquid cells. That places more stress on the RR (moore current) this is why I'm not a Euro fann boy.
FrenchFrog
Nothing to worry about, perfectly normal especially if your idle is low. As long as the light goes out somewhere between 1500 and 2k your good.
If you wanna be anal about it check the brush condition and clean the slip rings, but I don't think there is the least cause for concern
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I must say that I was initially surprised/disapointed John ! The rotor and brushes were thoroughly cleaned so maybe they just need to bed in a bit. The voltage is good...set up just above 14 volts.
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As John says there are two types of regulators used with the single phase Guzzi permanent magnet alternators, Series and Shunt
Many other motorcycle brands used three phase permanent magnet alternators, the only type of regulators I have seen on these are Shunt but I have no doubt they probably have Series as well.
As for the different type of regulator I don't think there is a lot to chose between Series or Shunt except the alternator coil was probably designed to operate one way or another, having said that we have lots of owners who have changed from one to another with good results.
Series, by opening the circuit you zero the current, the Voltage goes sky high but no Watts (heat)
Shunt, By shorting out the windings you create some current but zero Volts again no Watts
One problem with the wiring on early series regulators was the way the bike sensed the battery Voltage through the headlight relay, this resulted in an unreliable measure of Voltage which lead to overcharging and destruction of the regulator, for this reason I recommend a permanently wired regulator
Here is an example of Voltage sensed through a relay - Typically Ducati Energia
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1998_EV.gif
The problem is the headlight created quite a bit of Voltage drop in the headlight relay and socket, that would be ok if it was consistent but it changed which upset the Voltage reference.
Another example directly connected, I don't know what this brand is, I don't recall ever being asked to troubleshoot one
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_750_Breva.gif
Earlier Guzzis used a wound rotor three phase alternators typically Bosch, these had a range of different regulators and regulator rectifiers I will leave it to others to go over these.
We also haven't discussed the modern alternators with the regulator built in, like a CARC bike for example.
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A bit more info, on permanent magnet alternators:
The current is limited in those systems by the magnet strength, wire size, and core material. So shorting out the windings to regulate the output does not create a lot more current. It does allow you to use good diodes to rectifier the output instead of inefficient SCRs. But that is likely not worth a lot. The series type regulator should operate cooler, once the battery reaches full charge. But, then it will see high voltages that are harder to manage.
I repaired a friends Bassa using a shunt regulator. He often complained that he could smell something 'hot'. I eventually installed an original Ducati series regulator, and he no longer complained. I think it was his imagination, since I mentioned how is shorts out the alternator to regulate the voltage. But, maybe it was real. I now avoid shunt type if the original design was not shunt.
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on my bikes fitted with permanent magnet generator ( mainly ducati's and morini's) i fit the 15 euro chinese regulators available on ebay/aliexpress.
never had one of those fail, the original ducati ones do fail , so i replace them as a precaution.