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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: wolfeguitars on May 13, 2019, 01:58:09 PM

Title: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: wolfeguitars on May 13, 2019, 01:58:09 PM
Been riding 2 wheels for decades and at 73 I developed an urge to try a sidecar rig. Read up plenty & felt ready. Bought a ,02 Guzzi California with a Velorex 565, 619 miles away, sight unseen. The seller was honest & it's in excellent shape- looks new & runs terrific. Concluded the deal at 1:00 in Augusta, GA & knew storms were predicted for 3-4pm! I rode around town for bout an hour to get comfortable (what a difference!!) and struck out on better back roads going south. Torrential rains & high winds arrived on schedule. Now I can't see all that well, had no ballast (wind buffeting galore- with the occasional tree  blown down just to illustrate my folly) and was navi-guessing with what remains of my brain. Got lost a couple times. Gotta say- folks are so very nice & helpful to lost fools. Decided to hop on I-95 to make better time. How bad can it be on a Saturday? WHY IS EVERYONE TRAVELLING ON SAT. AFTERNOON? I'm now clad in a dryrider suit & doing about 55 in the right lane- which is the beat to all hell truck lane! Spent the night in Brunswick- rained all night- and saddled up early Sunday. Rained all the way home, but the Guzzi never missed a beat. Arrived shaking from hypothermia and exhausted BUT VERY happy. Next morning I bailed 2" of water from the tub (HEY! drain holes would be clever). Cleaned her and put her away for a couple days. Been riding her around town & I believe its a keeper. Gettin' smoother & enjoying that beast.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Dave Swanson on May 13, 2019, 02:02:44 PM
Great story!  I should say that you had quite the bonding session!!
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Roebling3 on May 13, 2019, 02:10:31 PM
You are a brave courageous and determined soul. Good on you!
Best wishes for sunny days and great rides. Special thanks for sharing your experience with the rest of us; including this octogenarian.
Good fortune,  R3~
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: kballowe on May 13, 2019, 02:11:23 PM
Wow.
 :bike-037:

 :thumb:

Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Dave Swanson on May 13, 2019, 02:50:48 PM
That's one way to get some ballast I guess!😀
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 13, 2019, 03:00:38 PM
Now that you lived throuh bringing it home.. I'm serious here.. :smiley:  take a sidecar course. There are a few things about them that might get you killed. They are perfectly capable of doing you in on a right..or.. left turn as you get more confident.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: s1120 on May 13, 2019, 03:01:12 PM
Nice...  self adding ballast.  Awesome. Sounds like with all that you had a nice time, and have a great story!
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Frenchfrog on May 13, 2019, 03:34:14 PM
Brave man ! riding a combo isn't exactly the same or intuative!!!!!!
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: twowings on May 13, 2019, 05:43:20 PM
Get some rubber floor plugs from a dealer in vintage CJ-5/7 parts, drill some holes, and you can drain/washout tub whenever necessary...
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Cam3512 on May 13, 2019, 06:07:16 PM
The guy that bought my V7 Special just rode it home from NJ to Denver.  Took the long way back - 2,500 miles, much of it rain.  The Guzzi never missed a beat, and he’s 77 years young.  11 days.   
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: jwinwi on May 13, 2019, 06:22:48 PM
Thank you for giving us youngsters hope for the future! Will truly be enjoying my golden years if I'm still riding at 77 or even 73!  :thumb:
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Ncdan on May 13, 2019, 06:30:48 PM
How about some pictures of the beast:)
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: drdwb on May 13, 2019, 06:39:23 PM
Nice story. I’m with Chuck on taking a class, it helped me. 2 thoughts, big empty parking lots are great playgrounds, in a pinch a couple of 35 Lb plastic kitty litter containers make great practice ballast.
There is a difference in riding a bike and driving a bike, I predict you develop great forearm strength by the time you learn. Good luck, and have fun.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Rich A on May 13, 2019, 06:46:09 PM
One thing that helped steer my rig (Jackal/Texas) was to put a set of the wide Bassa handlebars on it. I also got the 3-trees modified by Steerite, but I'm pretty sure they are no longer doing that, unfortunately.

Rich A
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Testarossa on May 13, 2019, 06:58:37 PM
Quote
Get some rubber floor plugs from a dealer in vintage CJ-5/7 parts, drill some holes, and you can drain/washout tub whenever necessary...

Install a self-bailer!

https://andersenwinches.com/aw/bailers.asp?RnID=411

Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: wolfeguitars on May 13, 2019, 08:10:35 PM
Ya know, it did handle better the last 50 miles with all the water. I'm having a tonneau made that should solve the water incursion. Came with one but it was in poor shape. I'll take some pics when I get her back together, as I just disassembled the car to have a crack I spotted welded, add some reinforcement (ballast for free) and perform some touchup painting on the frame where it wasn't done well from the factory. There's no rust but I do live & ride near salt water. Taking the car apart allows me to examine the frame closely for any other cracks. Velorex are not known for sturdy frames, but I don't plan to go off road (intentionally) nor spend much time on any Interstate. May as well add some strength while the welder is in there.
    I will endeavor to attend a proper training course as I can. I realize the real benefit from that. This forum has been a valuable resource that I appreciate.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 13, 2019, 08:15:36 PM
Quote
Taking the car apart allows me to examine the frame closely for any other cracks.
That gets you an Attaboy.  :thumb: :smiley: Welcome to WG, btw..
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Rich A on May 13, 2019, 08:37:47 PM
Sounds as though you're going about things in a thoughtful way.

The USCA site (sidecar.com) is a good resource. Click on the <Sidecar Tech> button on that site for info on lots of relevant topics.

Rich A
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: kingoffleece on May 14, 2019, 05:25:36 AM
David Hough has a book "Driving a sidecar outfit" that's worth it's weight in gold.  DO NOT fail to practice your right hand turns until you can't get it wrong.  You can find yourself on the wrong side of a curve before you know it.  Tip: you CAN pivot to the right by using the FRONT brake hard.  Practice this in a parking lot.  It may save your life.  No joke.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: adaven on May 14, 2019, 07:15:30 AM
Quote
There is a difference in riding a bike and driving a bike

After driving it home I am sure you know this, but you might want to remind yourself, everytime you start it up, until it becomes a part of your habitual behavior system, that you are driving, not riding.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: cookiemech on May 14, 2019, 07:33:03 AM
You don't really remember the easy rides you take on nice days, but you'll always remember this one!

Good for you.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: BrotherJim on May 14, 2019, 12:15:36 PM
White knuckle action!  Wow!  I would not have survived.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: guzzisteve on May 14, 2019, 04:37:34 PM
Here ya go, loads of info--------https://sidecar.com/forum/

Florida has a fairly active sidecar club just like GA.  I have seen 1/4" plate laid on the frame under the tub for ballast.
Enjoy the ride.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: bigbikerrick on May 14, 2019, 05:17:57 PM
After driving it home I am sure you know this, but you might want to remind yourself, everytime you start it up, until it becomes a part of your habitual behavior system, that you are driving, not riding.

How do you pivot to the right by using the front brake hard? On my rig, when I apply the brakes, be it front, or rear, it pulls to the left, when I accelerate, it pulls to the right.
Rick.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: kingoffleece on May 15, 2019, 05:36:34 AM
It's all in the book
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: drdwb on May 15, 2019, 08:01:12 AM
This is how my rig seems to work also. I’ll have to reread the book to learn the brake pull to the right trick. My understanding is momentum of the rig versus pull of the bike is what makes accelerating pull the bike to the right and brakes force the bike to the left.


How do you pivot to the right by using the front brake hard? On my rig, when I apply the brakes, be it front, or rear, it pulls to the left, when I accelerate, it pulls to the right.
Rick.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 15, 2019, 11:27:35 AM
This is how my rig seems to work also. I’ll have to reread the book to learn the brake pull to the right trick. My understanding is momentum of the rig versus pull of the bike is what makes accelerating pull the bike to the right and brakes force the bike to the left.


How do you pivot to the right by using the front brake hard? On my rig, when I apply the brakes, be it front, or rear, it pulls to the left, when I accelerate, it pulls to the right.
Rick.

I think where the confusion is.. is this. On a right hand sweeper, if going fast enough, the hack wheel will come off the pavement by a minute amount, and the driver doesn't realize it. As the rig starts to drift to the left, normally you turn the bars in the direction you want to go. *However* with the car wheel off the pavement, you are now driving a 2 wheeled vehicle, and turning the bars to the right will make it countersteer (!!) and dart across the centerline. This has scared the crap out of many and killed a few.
The thing to do is get on the front brake, and get your ass out over the chair. You have to get that hack wheel back on the pavement.
I've never felt like I was out of control of *any* machine until I started to drive a hack.  :grin:
They also have a trick when panic braking on a left turn that can find the hack going over the bike, but that's a story for another time..
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Rich A on May 15, 2019, 12:25:31 PM
I thought the idea was to use the front brake and at the same time give the throttle a little power to help pivot the bike.

Rich
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: bigbikerrick on May 15, 2019, 01:44:20 PM
As far as using the front brake to get it to turn to the right... Are we talking about a "European" style sidecar ,mounted on the left side of the bike? Just a thought that came to mind..... :wink:
Rick.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: John A on May 15, 2019, 03:22:54 PM
I cheated and the sidecar has a separate brake with no brake light .  Useful and fun, I got the idea from a pre 1920 sidecar manual. Right handers are more fun and to subtly change lane position, slow or fast add some sidecar brake
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: drdwb on May 15, 2019, 05:36:50 PM
The Vetter has a brake on it but the PO said it didn’t work when he got it, He tried to fix it but couldn’t find parts for caliper which is rusted frozen, so  now it’s just ballast. I’ve often wondered what it might be like. Gonna have to try and fix it just to see, if it helps when  I put it on the EV.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Lee Bruns on May 15, 2019, 07:45:07 PM
The Vetter has a brake on it but the PO said it didn’t work when he got it, He tried to fix it but couldn’t find parts for caliper which is rusted frozen, so  now it’s just ballast. I’ve often wondered what it might be like. Gonna have to try and fix it just to see, if it helps when  I put it on the EV.
  If it's a Velorex, if'n you do get the brake operational, it'll just lock the wheel every time you touch the pedal. If you back it off enough so that it doesn't lock the wheel, it'll not do much of anything.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: John A on May 15, 2019, 07:55:48 PM
  If it's a Velorex, if'n you do get the brake operational, it'll just lock the wheel every time you touch the pedal. If you back it off enough so that it doesn't lock the wheel, it'll not do much of anything.



Yep, what I did was use a T3 rear wheel with disc brake.  I use a hand lever mirroring the clutch lever, like a double lever that runs a cable to a master cylinder. That gives me enough feel for impending lockup.  For regular braking I count on the bikes brakes
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 16, 2019, 07:51:45 AM
On the Jack-All rig, I added another disc on front and plumbed both fronts and the sidecar brake together to a Gixxer master cylinder. You could grab a handful, and it would stop as straight as a rig will.  :smiley:
Honestly, I think a Velorex is awfully light for a big block Guzzi.. but if that is what you have, you need to figure out how to make it work.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: John A on May 16, 2019, 09:01:06 AM
Yeah the Velorex I used was too light and I kept breaking the sidecar frame so I built my own frame.  I didn't know anything so I read all I could and built it so the frame mounts ridged to the bike and the adjustment, toe, lean out etc is done at the wheel, which added too much complexity but worked well to get a good setup. Now that I have a good setup I've been gradually cutting down the frame which is way overbuilt but I have confidence pushing the thing too fast around corners.
(https://i.ibb.co/RpkcD2H/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RpkcD2H)

(https://i.ibb.co/fGzxgfX/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fGzxgfX)

(https://i.ibb.co/n6y0QGc/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n6y0QGc)

(https://i.ibb.co/WKz93kJ/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WKz93kJ)
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Lee Bruns on May 16, 2019, 12:35:15 PM
Yeah the Velorex I used was too light and I kept breaking the sidecar frame so I built my own frame.  I didn't know anything so I read all I could and built it so the frame mounts ridged to the bike and the adjustment, toe, lean out etc is done at the wheel, which added too much complexity but worked well to get a good setup. Now that I have a good setup I've been gradually cutting down the frame which is way overbuilt but I have confidence pushing the thing too fast around corners.
(https://i.ibb.co/RpkcD2H/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RpkcD2H)

(https://i.ibb.co/fGzxgfX/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fGzxgfX)

(https://i.ibb.co/n6y0QGc/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n6y0QGc)

(https://i.ibb.co/WKz93kJ/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WKz93kJ)


I love the idea of it all being adjustable at the wheel. GOod thinking!!
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Huzo on May 16, 2019, 12:42:03 PM
Pretty ballsy mate ...
You remind me of this bloke..
(https://i.ibb.co/1GbTB1d/4-B613-F46-D8-A7-407-C-A86-D-166936-A6-B8-F5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1GbTB1d)
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: John A on May 21, 2019, 09:39:37 AM
Pretty ballsy mate ...
You remind me of this bloke..
(https://i.ibb.co/1GbTB1d/4-B613-F46-D8-A7-407-C-A86-D-166936-A6-B8-F5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1GbTB1d)




That guy is obviously nuts,  what are you trying to tell me? :grin:
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: sidecarnutz on May 21, 2019, 12:01:39 PM
The Velo frame is too light for Guzzi use IMO. Too flimsy. A heavier framed sidecar is more appropriate to Guzzi use like a Ural. You may find it flexes in hard corners making it unstable.

IME with two sidecars on Guzzi's, the Guzzi brakes are enough to do a great job. Sidecar wheel brakes can be more trouble than they are worth.

DO take a sidecar safety course. I used to be in instructor myself. Its a great course. It was based on Dave Hough's book. At the very least, get Dave's book and study and practice.
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: wolfeguitars on May 26, 2019, 08:58:13 PM
THANKS for all the great advice. I found a crack in the sidecar frame, repaired that & added some additional frame bracing & therefore a little weight. The rig handles really well and I'm enjoying it. Really installed & setup well. I am gradually adding ballast BUT wanted to get comfortable driving without it, which has been accomplished. I'm adding ballast to compress the car's suspension a bit & eliminate some of the rattling & bouncy ride. Here's a pic.
(https://i.ibb.co/JrrBzq8/MG519.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JrrBzq8)
Title: Re: New Hacker rides it home
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 27, 2019, 05:40:03 AM
Pretty..  :thumb: