Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ohiorider on May 17, 2019, 11:22:08 AM
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I rode my 2012 8vSE for almost 3 seasons and 10k miles before selling her. Primary reason for sale was what I perceived as suspension harshness on our less than stellar Ohio secondary roads where I like to ride. I suppose I could have worked with Race Tech to have come up with a suspension that would have worked for me.
So, though I no longer own a Griso, I do see several on line at very attractive prices, and wanted to ask if any of you current or past Griso owners had modified the front and rear suspension to make the ride more compliant. I'm not looking for adjustment advice to the stock suspension, but actual changes of fork springs and rear shock spring.
Stats: I weigh about 165#, 5'8", 30" inseam, 32" sleeve length.
Bob
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Although I'm a bit smaller and lighter than you, I suggest Race Tech spring and valving. Reasonably priced and very effective when properly set up. Used on 2 Ducatis (1 was a track bike) and 1 Guzzi.
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You have several choices at 165#. Fat arses like me have to change springs too!
I think you can get there with the stock pieces up front as it's too bad once you get the preload right. Once I did the work on the rear I realized how much the front is wanting, but that would just be gravy and something I might do in the future. The big bang is with the rear and you have several options.
I chose to have my Sachs rebuilt by Traxxion, and that doesn't disappoint. That was a $400 option for me but probably less for you if they re-use the stock spring. They charge about the same for the front end so that's $800 plus shipping if you pull them and send them the parts. The other popular option is to fit a Stelvio shock on the rear. This gets you a little more travel, a heavier spring and saves you from having to lower front end, but it is going to make the bike a little taller for you. The third option would be to go aftermarket on the rear. There are lots of options out there if you go to the Ghetto you can read about the various choices via a long thread on suspension.
There are guys who are doing it on their own but suspension has always been beyond me. For $400 Traxxion dialed mine in nicely even to the point where I backed off the preload some (something you can't do with the stocker).
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Other than Race Tech another option is Cogent Dynamics in the Asheville, NC area. They have set up three bikes for me with stellar results. He has developed a drop in emulator that can be fitted at home without much drama, it has worked well for me on an 07' Bonnie. I mailed my Breva forks to him and he fitted Ohlins springs and Race Tech Gold Valve Emulators, I fitted a Penske shock and the Breva handled like it was on rails, no more bouncing in curves and rode like a dream walking on rough roads.
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Bob,
As Dilliw said there are quite a few threads on re-working the Griso suspension on GrisoGhetto at the moment.
I am bit by bit, as funds allow, changing stuff.
Last year I replaced the broken rear shock with a rebuilt Ohlins that I got from E bay, cost me $630 all in. Having backed off the adjustment on the rear shock & not seeing any change let alone improvement I considered it dead. The new shock works nicely but I have yet to fine tune it. I weigh in at 175 Lbs so a bit heavier than you.
Now with the bike at 19K miles, I am considering sending off the forks to RaceTech to have gold valves installed.
It seems to be the suspension gets the most attention on a Griso, generally considered too harsh.
You are right there are some great deals at the moment. Good hunting
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When I had my Griso done by Pete Roper, I got him to change the suspension out for me too. It's now got Matris front and rear and it makes a huge difference. It handles so much better and gives me confidence when riding on the things we call roads here in Oz.
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I spent this week doing a daily 100 mile R/T in and out of the upper west side of NYC.
Road surfaces ranged from glass smooth to cratered moonscape. Didn't give my suspension a second thought as it just right for me:
Stock 2009 Stelvio shock in the rear, damping at half, preload at full. Stock front end softened up from the tooth-rattling factory setting.
The Stelvio shock is a bit taller than stock which balances the bike nicely. The stock shock is undersprung which leads to bottoming. The stock front end compensates by being oversprung and overdamped from stock. Good choice there, factory gurus!
On the way in on Tuesday traffic went from 70 MPH to a full stop and I gave the rear brake a bit too much wellie with the size 14. The tail gave a wag but I gathered it in like I was still on my Schwinn "Orange Crate". Good suspension is a joy forever.
At 6'4" and 230 lbs I am a statistical outlier but with a beefed up custom seat and dropped pegs I can ride all day.
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As you are hearing, bunches and bunches of options.
There is mega dollar:
Cartridge for front fork (replaces all the guts of the fork): Matris, AK-20 Axxion, etc
Rear shock: Matris, Mupo, Ohlins, etc
Medium dollar:
Fork revalve (it is a high quality cartridge fork already, like a 06/07 GSXR 650/750)
Reasonable priced shock, Stelvio shock, shock revalve
Low dollar:
Fork - fresh oil, revalve yourself
Shock - new spring, revalve yourself
Low low dollar:
Fork - fresh light weight oil
Shock - stiffer spring
At your weight, the fork spring rate should be fine, and surprisingly you could go a bit stiffer on the rear spring. The stiffer spring holds the rear of the bike up better, so it handles better, and is in a better place in the linkage curve when hitting bumps ... seems counter intuitive to put on a stiffer rear spring to get a more supple ride but it is true.
There are also kits for the front fork (20mm showa piston kit, GSXR, will show up, Griso not listed) ... Racetech, Ohlins, K-tech ... you could buy one of these, put it in yourself ... or have a suspension tuner put it in vs. a "normal" revalve ... guess this fits in the medium price category. :grin:
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Stock suspension is fine for me, but takes time to adjust.
My settings:
Front
Rebound (top screws) 2-1/4 Turns CCW (from fully closed)
Compression (bottom screws) 1/4 turn CCW
Preload (top nut) 5 bands showing 6th band just hidden)
Rear
Compression (top screw) 1/4 turn CCW
Rebound (bottom screw) 40 clicks CCW (4 turns)
Preload - stock setting
Im 200 lbs with gear and love the ride. #36 front #38 rear psi. YMMV
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Stock suspension is fine for me, but takes time to adjust.
My settings:
Front
Rebound (top screws) 2-1/4 Turns CCW (from fully closed)
Compression (bottom screws) 1/4 turn CCW
Preload (top nut) 5 bands showing 6th band just hidden)
Rear
Compression (top screw) 1/4 turn CCW
Rebound (bottom screw) 40 clicks CCW (4 turns)
Preload - stock setting
Im 200 lbs with gear and love the ride. #36 front #38 rear psi. YMMV
I weigh the same and I run 36/42 but I am easily bottoming out the forks with these settings. It all depends on how aggressively you ride I guess.
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I weigh the same and I run 36/42 but I am easily bottoming out the forks with these settings. It all depends on how aggressively you ride I guess.
Sounds like you're going for it! I do run a little less rebound and a little more compression up front (2 turns and 3/4 turns respectively). I also don't run my front tire as high (33psi). It works for me but I'm not that hard of a charger.
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I weigh the same and I run 36/42 but I am easily bottoming out the forks with these settings. It all depends on how aggressively you ride I guess.
Unless your valving is FUBAR, I cant see how you are bottoming the Fork with the compression only 1/4 of a turn out, that is pretty firm. My figures are all from the adjuster fully closed (firmest setting) and adjusted CCW from there. I guess I could see it if you went the other way, starting from fully out, and then just turning 1/4 in. That would be very soft and would bottom out. Or are you taking your Griso offroad? :grin: :evil: I've never come close to bottoming the front fork, even with all the crappy roads, frost heaves, etc.
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Jim Hamlin at Hamlin Cycles is a master for suspension. Nationally ranked riders use him-you can too.
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Unless your valving is FUBAR, I cant see how you are bottoming the Fork with the compression only 1/4 of a turn out, that is pretty firm. My figures are all from the adjuster fully closed (firmest setting) and adjusted CCW from there. I guess I could see it if you went the other way, starting from fully out, and then just turning 1/4 in. That would be very soft and would bottom out. Or are you taking your Griso offroad? :grin: :evil: I've never come close to bottoming the front fork, even with all the crappy roads, frost heaves, etc.
Bike is mint new with 7k miles. What I did was cranked the preload to 3 rings and no more bottoming out now. I am someone would classify as an aggressive rider. Love a brisk pace and I brake late into the corners. CA roads are crappiest and bumpiest in the country as the ground moves so much due to the 1000s of mini earthquakes and landslides we get
(https://i.ibb.co/m4BDNGq/image.png) (https://ibb.co/m4BDNGq)
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Bike is mint new with 7k miles. What I did was cranked the preload to 3 rings and no more bottoming out now. I am someone would classify as an aggressive rider. Love a brisk pace and I brake late into the corners. CA roads are crappiest and bumpiest in the country as the ground moves so much due to the 1000s of mini earthquakes and landslides we get
(https://i.ibb.co/m4BDNGq/image.png) (https://ibb.co/m4BDNGq)
Ah that makes sense. My preload is at 4, with 3 Rings showing.
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JH: Last week, I rode the one that Enzo has. I have no idea how or if it was adjusted, but it was pretty stiff for my 200lbs. I would have to do something about it if it were mine. I am very spoiled now by the V85 suspension, but realize that bike is not an option for everyone.
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@Bulldog9 - Just used your settings on my 2017 Griso. Thanks you. Made a world of difference! :bike-037:
Stock suspension is fine for me, but takes time to adjust.
My settings:
Front
Rebound (top screws) 2-1/4 Turns CCW (from fully closed)
Compression (bottom screws) 1/4 turn CCW
Preload (top nut) 5 bands showing 6th band just hidden)
Rear
Compression (top screw) 1/4 turn CCW
Rebound (bottom screw) 40 clicks CCW (4 turns)
Preload - stock setting
Im 200 lbs with gear and love the ride. #36 front #38 rear psi. YMMV
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I backed off the preload some
Can you elaborate as to why you did that ?
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I'm 174cm in height & 78kg in weight (you guys can do the conversions for once :grin:)
I went for the Stelvio rear shock option at first.
It really is a much better shock than the stock Griso one.
But after over a year of trying to get used to it, I just couldn't live with the added height it gave the bike.
It went from being flat footed to tippy-toe.
Also, unlike most others who have done this swap, I really didn't like the change in steering geometry.
I spent the whole time raising and lowering the forks through the triple clamp trying to find a comfortable compromise.
So a few weeks ago I gave up, put the stock shock back on, went for a ride and was instantly happy on the first corner - then went over a bad section and immediately remembered how bad the shock is.
I've now coughed up the dough and ordered a Hyperpro unit in stock length (plus length adjuster so I can still play with height/geometry) and am eagerly waiting for it to be delivered.
Wyno - I still need to buy you a few beers for that Dart screen you gave me years ago!
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I'm all ears boys ............ I have had no luck in adjustments of the factory suspension of my 2015.
I'm seriously considering a full Matris suspension on this creature as my Stelvio has been transformed into perfection ( IMHO ) with the Matris full system front legs and rear.
Pricey but seems to be the business for all sorts of conditions.
Ciao
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@Bulldog9 - Just used your settings on my 2017 Griso. Thanks you. Made a world of difference! :bike-037:
Glad they worked for you. Micah and Jason at MI (RIP) and a couple guys in Seattle helped me sort it out in 2015
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I had a 850 Griso and dialing in the stock suspension made a HUGE difference. Take the time to do it and you are hugely rewarded.
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Can you elaborate as to why you did that ?
Man that's a mistake from years ago. I backed off the rebound some not the preload. Sorry!
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My Griso always felt better the faster I rode it. It was noticeably stiffer at lower outside temps too. The cheapest solution is ride fast in 75+ temps. I miss how it would almost yank my hands off the grips when twisting the throttle. Only bike I have ever had that did that.
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I also recomend Cogent...
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My Griso always felt better the faster I rode it. It was noticeably stiffer at lower outside temps too.
I totally agree with this statement. Suspension is so much better in the summer than the winter and so much better go fast than going slow .... which works out in my favor. Also, I'm not sure if all the stock rear shocks were all set the same from the factory, but I had to totally loosen up the pre-load on the rear shock spring to get any kind of resemblance to a workable suspension. Still making changes here and there, but I think I have it the best it can be without replacing any of the stock pieces.
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Not trying to be a smarta@@, just sharing knowledge.
When folks speak about dialing preload or other adjustments all the way one setting or the other it should set off a little bell. What you currently have is outside the weight parameters and/or riding style of the owner. Nobody designs stuff to operate at the extreme ends of adjustment. That's the very short story.
And damper rod front ends can only be made to work in the narrowest of ranges. Sure, one can make poor stuff perform better, but it's only better as it's coming from such a low level.
I fully understand that good stuff is expensive-but there is a lot of improvement that's real and can be had for just a moderate investment. A Gold valve kit is worlds better than any damper rod system on earth for well under 500 bucks. Maybe under 400 depending.
At the very least the correct spring rate at the rear is a start. I don't pretend to be the Delphi of this, but having ridden plenty of different motorcycles that have been set up correctly it's painfully obvious that one need not be "Ricky Racer" in order to gain improvement.
And I can't even count how many times I've seen bikes in Jim's shop where the guy "did everything and his brother in law knows a guy" and whatever where the fork oil looked like it was from the Jurassic age, or some guy replaced the fork springs 'cause everyone knows that's the way to do it but failed to understand that the spring rubs against the tube constantly and turns the ol into some sort of mild abrasive loaded with the finest of aluminum particles that actually sparkle under the shop lights.
Like I said, just attempting to add to the knowledge base.
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And I can't even count how many times I've seen bikes in Jim's shop where the guy "did everything and his brother in law knows a guy" and whatever where the fork oil looked like it was from the Jurassic age, or some guy replaced the fork springs 'cause everyone knows that's the way to do it but failed to understand that the spring rubs against the tube constantly and turns the ol into some sort of mild abrasive loaded with the finest of aluminum particles that actually sparkle under the shop lights.
Wait a minute, is this out of the ordinary? I've never changed fork oil without it looking sparkly grey
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Sometimes. I've seen Jim make many mods to kits from supposedly top flight suppliers with instructions that are simply incorrect. Installed as directed results in excessive spring/front tube contact, and sometimes other issues. At his shop they also assemble everything with the very expensive "red" suspension grease as it's the only way to insure on every install that nothing gets "slightly cock-eyed" during very close tolerance assembly.
As for the fork oil, the correct way to change is to completely disassemble, clean everything in the parts washer, wipe down and dry with filtered compresses air, reassemble with the red grease after any mods needed for performance gains and/or correct fitment and interference, then refill with correct fluid which includes a custom jig made for insuring that all fluid is distributed correctly and then remeasured to the correct fill with another custom designed tool, and finally install. Done this way, I can tell you from servicing my forks at his shop for many years that te fluid is much less contaminated at change that it was in the as delivered spec from the factory.