Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: AH Fan on May 21, 2019, 11:13:47 PM
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Hi all.
Not sure if this has been covered before but was wondering what would be a reasonable expectation of the life expectancy of the engine and components ( mileage ) of the 8V Stelvio and its variants if looked after and serviced in a reasonable fashion?
Many thx in advance......
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Pretty much the same as any other Guzzi. In other words a bloody long time!
Biggest Achilles heel of the 8V is the non replaceable front main bearing but I'm working on a fix for that. If you keep clean oil up them though they'll last a very long time.
Pete
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2013...? Isn’t that the year where some had roller tappets and some didn’t?
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Yes early models had flatties but mine has rollers.
:thumb:
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Anything plated 2013 will be roller. The changeover point was production in early to mid MY 2012.
Also I interpreted the question as to be 'When will it be so worn out as to be unrebuildable' and the answer to that remains the same. At least as long as any other Guzzi as long as parts are available and pretty much infinitely if you have bottomless pockets.
Pete
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Anything plated 2013 will be roller. The changeover point was production in early to mid MY 2012.
Pete
In theory, with ethical dealers you're right, but in my part of the world, where some unethical dealers have been stuck with some flatties that they can't unload, not always the case.
There is a nice nos Griso with a Mistral pipe for sale locally(400 miles), that thankfully I had the dealer pop off the valve covers and send me photos. it was a flattie, no comment or acknowledgement of the problem by the dealer.
I noticed that this year, the dealer is selling the same bike, advertised as a 2014. With that in mind, my personal comfort zone for being certain that a bike is a roller would be 2015 or later. Anything in the grey years 2012,2013 & now apparently 2014, I'd want a picture of the valve assembly for piece of mind.
I've talked to many dealers, and I've yet to have one of them even admit there was/is a problem with the flatties.
Kelly
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Production dates and engine #'s for the change to rollers.
Stelvio- Motor#AC12596 Build Date 12 March 2012
GRiSO - Motor#A813524 Build Date 12 April 2012
Norge - Motor#AA12214 Build Date 18 April 2012
Now these are a bit rubbery as I've seen engines a bit later than these numbers with flats but NOTHING post 2012.
If your dealer is trying to flog a flattie as a later model year that's as maybe but by MY13 the problem had been dealt with.
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So 200,000 miles then Pete ? Or 322,000 Kilometers ? I'll bet with just a few repairs along the way and good maintenance those are realistic figures.
We are living in the *golden age* of motorbiking .
Dusty
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Hi all.
Not sure if this has been covered before but was wondering what would be a reasonable expectation of the life expectancy of the engine and components ( mileage ) of the 8V Stelvio and its variants if looked after and serviced in a reasonable fashion?
Many thx in advance......
I don’t know, but I’m going to find out ...
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“non replaceable front main bearing”?
What the heck? Why in the world would they do that?
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“non replaceable front main bearing”?
What the heck? Why in the world would they do that?
Saving nickels and dimes, the hard way.
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Guzzi never used cam bearings in the crankcase, cam runs on the case, should not be a problem for the front main either, unless of course you starve it for lube... DonG
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Saving nickels and dimes, the hard way.
Essentially this but by using a pressed in split bearing also made delivering oil to the under piston sprays easier. That isn't an insurmountable problem I don't think but I won't really know until I get serious about adapting an old style front main to the case. That will be after I retire probably. Far too much other stuff going on at the moment sadly.
Pete
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Hey Pete.
Should have been a little clearer ….. Was wondering what would be the reasonable mileage of my 2013 Stelvio engine/trans/final drive before it would be in need of rebuild?
I hope that is worded correctly.
Ciao
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Major motive componentry? Well the gearboxes seem to be well nigh indestructible. In thirteen years of the 'Nuovo Six Speed' I've only had two apart. One out of curiosity and one of the early ones to add washers to the shock absorber stack. I've never had to have an 8V gearbox apart.
The CARC bevelbox is ludicrously over engineered. I've seen a handful in that time that have had their pinion nut loose their preload and probably half a dozen bearing failures. The pinion preload loss seems to just be a 'Luck of the draw' thing and if they are going to do that it usually happens early.
With the 8V motor I've seen several that have completed over 100,000 km with no issues at all. When I gave Wynn's bike a bit of a freshen up at around the 100,000 mark I did Rings, valves and a head service, ground the clutch backing and pressure plates and slung a new friction plate in. It got camchain as well I think. Really though I was pleasantly surprised at how good it all looked, especially considering how badly abused it had been in its life.
Pete
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One out of curiosity and one of the early ones to add washers to the shock absorber stack.
I’ve often wondered if the amount of drive line lash in my old ‘07 is representative of others.
I have done the rubber bush in the torque arm mod and it did make a difference. Is the shock absorber stack to which you refer, there to remove some of this lash?
I can ride with virtually none, but I tap the clutch very lightly when on/off the throttle in the lower gears.
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The 'Rattle' issue shouldn't be a problem on your Norge.
The backlash in the driveline that causes the 'Clank' is just that, backlash and its effect on the spinning gears and shafts in the gearbox exerting force on the reactive rod. Removing crush on the Cush drive will, if anything, exacerbate the 'Clank'.
Pete
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I just called it a feature on my 07 Norge. Carc stands for,
Clanks And Rattles Continuously :grin:
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I’ve often wondered if the amount of drive line lash in my old ‘07 is representative of others.
I have done the rubber bush in the torque arm mod and it did make a difference. Is the shock absorber stack to which you refer, there to remove some of this lash?
I can ride with virtually none, but I tap the clutch very lightly when on/off the throttle in the lower gears.
Thx for all that Pete.
Your experiences with these marvels is invaluable.
Cheers for now.
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Anything plated 2013 will be roller. The changeover point was production in early to mid MY 2012 . . .
Maybe in Australia Pete, and I believe in the States the Registration is always dated the same as the year of manufacture.
In the UK, and many other Countries, the registration date can be long after it arrived in it's crate.
Our UK Plates show the date of Registration (grouped into two six-month periods per year).
One guy on my FB stelvio Owners Group has an early 2012 Stelvio, which wasn't registered until 2013.
Another, in Denmark, has a 2012 'Flatty' that wasn't registered until 2015!
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The 'Rattle' issue shouldn't be a problem on your Norge.
The backlash in the driveline that causes the 'Clank' is just that, backlash and its effect on the spinning gears and shafts in the gearbox exerting force on the reactive rod. Removing crush on the Cush drive will, if anything, exacerbate the 'Clank'.
Pete
Thank you.
As mentioned, I can ride around it, but it requires a touch.
Half the fun I guess..
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The year of manufacture can be determined by the VIN.
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Pete has got me curious about the non replaceable front bearing on the 8V crankcase,I found this picture of the what looks to be a pressed in front main bearing on a Stelvio engine crankcase.I don't have a shop manual for this bike,I was wondering if they show a separate bearing in the manual?
crankcase.
(https://i.ibb.co/s11R8c8/s-l1600-Stelvio-crank-case-none-replacable-fron.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s11R8c8)
molar mass of aluminum (https://aluminumsulfate.net/aluminum)
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In the parts diagram it is shown as a separate part but it has a common part number with the case.
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using a pressed in split bearing also made delivering oil to the under piston sprays easier.
From the picture of the case it looks like the material used to retain and reinforce the old style bearing is still there. Does the 8V use this material to make the oil channels now or is that just a left over from the old style?
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The year of manufacture can be determined by the VIN.
Of course, but I doubt very many prospective buyers would think to check.
Bit of a pain to have to do it too, if you're scouring the Ads looking for a new Toy, feeling like an eight yr-old a week before Christmas . . . :tongue:
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Hey guy,s needing some help finding out how to obtain Roller kit from Moto Guzzi, i would very much appreciate the help. I have a 2012 ntx which i,m pretty sure would like to be rollerised before any damage is done it,s currently parked up with 29,000 klm on it Cheer,s Tim
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Hey guy,s needing some help finding out how to obtain Roller kit from Moto Guzzi, i would very much appreciate the help. I have a 2012 ntx which i,m pretty sure would like to be rollerised before any damage is done it,s currently parked up with 29,000 klm on it Cheer,s Tim
Where are you? Do you have a full service history? Has it started making horrible noises?
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I now have 240,000 km on my Le Mans 2 , it's been performance kitted for at least 150,00 km and still has the original , front and rear crank bearings and rod bearings ! And great oil pressure , so I'm imagining that Mr Ropers remarks about longevity for the later models has just gotta be correct . It'll be an inheritance :) , Peter
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Hey guy,s needing some help finding out how to obtain Roller kit from Moto Guzzi, i would very much appreciate the help. I have a 2012 ntx which i,m pretty sure would like to be rollerised before any damage is done it,s currently parked up with 29,000 klm on it Cheer,s Tim
Where are you? These guys have both kits: https://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/Home/index.php
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Interesting topic: High mileage motorcycles and the economies of rebuilding one. Of course, we pretty much live in a "throw-away" society. I hate throwing stuff away that should be fixable. Of course, cost is always an issue. With mass production, repairs can be and often are more expensive than replacement. I have a nice Panasonic 40 inch Plasma TV sitting in my garage, all boxed up. It died (won't power up) because of a simple power relay that need to be replaced. Fixable, but the cost would be close to what I can now buy a new LCD set for. Let alone the fact that TV repair, once a common small business, is now a lost art. I haven't had the heart to toss it yet, but suppose I will end up doing so. One of the lasting appeals of Moto Guzzi (at least one of their traits that appeals to me) is they are often overhauled or rebuilt rather that scrapped. Harley Davidson is (was?) much the same. "Nobody ever throws a Harley Davidson away," Peter Egan once said. Unfortunately, Harleys have been so over-produced in the last few years that I suspect many will be indeed scrapped. Simply more of them out there than there will ever be riders for in a slowly declining market. With the small numbers of Moto Guzzi's produced each year, I hope that will never happen to them.
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Things last as long as your interest and patience. There are Alfasuds on the road and Volvo 240s in junkyards.
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With regard to reply #30.
I cringe like a child when I see Hueys being pushed overboard on carriers when deemed necessary.
WW2 Mustangs, Spitfires..et al, scrapped/scavenged or abandoned back in the day.
You just get the feeling that some 11 year old kid will spot the TV one day and inform you that he has the same generic component from a 40 buck device that he’ll install in 20 minutes for a back seat jaunt on the Guzzi.
I’m reminded of a time back in the 80’s, when I had a very nice VW Kombi with factory pop top and fridge, gas cooker etc..
It had the old DC generator with shim adjusters in the pulley (I think), which became problematic and generally acted like a thorough bastard. I went to a known good Auto Elec. to see if he could fit an alternator, he said it was economically unfeasible to do so due to the work involved and since his reputation was Beetle/Roperesque, I accepted his word immediately and began to leave.
A chance comment made by me to the effect that I, “thought it would be just a matter of a rectifier or some such” but admittedly I was clueless on such things, was greeted by...
“Oh shit yeah it basically is mate, but it’s the mounting of the alternator where all the tough stuff is, the rest’s a piece of piss..”
Well, the “tough stuff” held me up for about 2 hours and he did what I though was impossible while I went for lunch.
You just have to “know what you know” well...
And “know what you don’t know” even better..
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That is interesting. My old '98 Cummins Dodge lost the alternator on a trip once near a smallish town. The parts house didn't have a replacement. They sent me to an auto electric guy, in fact he came to me. He said he would take the alternator and repair it if it was repairable. He also said the ECM acted as the regulator and that could also be the problem and that was big $. He said if it was he could wire up a regular regulator. I told him to go right ahead. However all he had to do was overhaul the alternator.
Years ago I used to fix my own. You could get brushes, bearings, bushings etc or whatever you needed. Recently I worked in a NAPA store, I went through the catalog (computer) and could find none of that stuff. I am sure you could get it from specialty supply sources, probably in lots of a hundred though.
kk
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Seems like you can drive anything forever if you take care of it. Some guy drove a Volvo 1800 3.2M miles before he died, not the car.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a25165860/irv-gordon-million-mile-volvo-p1800-obituary/
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Seems like you can drive anything forever if you take care of it. Some guy drove a Volvo 1800 3.2M miles before he died, not the car.
True, but there's taking care of something vs. constantly rebuilding it. In a motorcycle rag a few years ago, some Harley rider bragged about his 250,000 mile Harley Davidson. When asked what it took in the way of maintenance to reach such a lofty milage, he basically listed off replacing almost every part on the engine several times with the exception of the crankcases. I wrote the editor to tell them that a Harley Davidson is just like a good hammer. You know, a good hammer will last forever, as long as you replace the head and handle once-in-a-while! :azn:
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We still have several 60's and 70's Volvos running around town.
kk
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True, but there's taking care of something vs. constantly rebuilding it. In a motorcycle rag a few years ago, some Harley rider bragged about his 250,000 mile Harley Davidson. When asked what it took in the way of maintenance to reach such a lofty milage, he basically listed off replacing almost every part on the engine several times with the exception of the crankcases. I wrote the editor to tell them that a Harley Davidson is just like a good hammer. You know, a good hammer will last forever, as long as you replace the head and handle once-in-a-while! :azn:
Nonsense good Sir...!
I have it on good authority that 90% of Harleys are still on the road... :wink:
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...and the other 10% made it home safely! :wink: