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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: canuck750 on May 23, 2019, 10:27:50 AM
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I got my 1978 Moto Morini up and running the other day, the electric starter would haply spin at the press of the right hand button but not spin the motor. I paid a small fortune to NLM for a rebuilt starter motor and it in itself is a contraption, who dreams these things up??
The starter assembly resides inside the left hand engine cover and the little electric motor has a 90 degree drive at the end which has small sprocket feeding a drive chain that spins the starter clutch. The starter clutch has three sprung arms with lining on the engaging surface, when the starter motor spins through the 90 degree end / sprocket and chains these arms fly out under centrifugal force and grab the drum riveted to the rotor.
(https://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/1978%20Moto%20Morini%20500/IMG_3811_zpsnww6tcah.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/1978%20Moto%20Morini%20500/IMG_3811_zpsnww6tcah.jpg.html)
I had thought the lining on the clutch arms would still grab the drum, not to be.
(https://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/1978%20Moto%20Morini%20500/IMG_3400_zpsoqnmyobt.jpg) (https://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/1978%20Moto%20Morini%20500/IMG_3400_zpsoqnmyobt.jpg.html)
Shoe lining is too far gone so its off to a break shoe re-lining shop, there is only one shop left around here that can handle this kind of work and thankfully the tech agreed to reline the ram surfaces for me, he has to make a copy of the drum to hold the lining material in shape / pressure while the lining bonds in the oven to the arms.
I am trading this Morini for another Ducati project and the new owner will want the starter to work and I would appreciate not having to kick it over!
This is a short video of the bike running, its after a couple previous starts and oil changes. I found the tank was pinching a throttle cable so its running too fast in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m057K4qozA&feature=youtu.be
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It is a bit "Rube Goldberg", but given Morini's limited resources and the space available for a starter without a redesign of the engine itself, I think it's rather ingenious. Stein-Dinse did offer MOR starter shoes that were heavier so they'd engage better, but I just looked and they don't have them listed now.
I pulled my K2 out two days ago and started it for the first time since Oct. Electric start isn't doing it's thing -motor is spinning too slowly to crank the engine - so I'll be servicing the "giant wiper motor" sometime soon.
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My wife had a 500 Sport brand new. The starter wasn't any good then either. It did make entertaining clanging sounds though.
If the new owner thinks they are supposed to work he will be disappointed.
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Let me add some related Guzzi content.
Guzzi added a kick starter to their V50 military bike, because it was a Nato requirement. The kick starter was weak and unreliable. Electric start was better.
Ironically, the Morini went the other way. The kick starter is better, and the electric starter an added "eyewash" to boost sales.
Joe
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My wife had a 500 Sport brand new. The starter wasn't any good then either. It did make entertaining clanging sounds though.
If the new owner thinks they are supposed to work he will be disappointed.
I guess I've been lucky - all of my Morinis ('80 Strada, '86 K2 and '85 K2) and a customer's 3 1/2 Strada had electric start systems that worked well. The problems with my K2's starter now is mostly because I overworked it trying to get the engine started when the stator failed.
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welcome to the wonderful world of morini ownership :-)
the electric starter is obviously a afterthought ,
what does not help is the ignition system is a weird self generating cdi , even new it needs quite a high rev to produce a healthy spark.
the high tension stator coil degrades over the years, and it will need even more revs, until the point it wont start.
if the coil is not 100% the starter motor will not reach the minimum revs required to produce a spark, and will simply drain the battery.
with the kickstarter you can give it it a solid kick, and it will probably run.
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welcome to the wonderful world of morini ownership :-)
the electric starter is obviously a afterthought ,
what does not help is the ignition system is a weird self generating cdi , with even new needs quite a high rev to produce a healthy spark.
the high tension stator coil degrades over the years, and it will need even more revs, until the point it wont start.
if the coil is not 100% the starter motor will not reach the minimum revs required to produce a spark, and will simply drain the battery.
with the kickstarter you can give it it a solid kick, and it will probably run.
YES!! +1.
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welcome to the wonderful world of morini ownership :-)
the electric starter is obviously a afterthought ,
what does not help is the ignition system is a weird self generating cdi , with even new needs quite a high rev to produce a healthy spark.
the high tension stator coil degrades over the years, and it will need even more revs, until the point it wont start.
if the coil is not 100% the starter motor will not reach the minimum revs required to produce a spark, and will simply drain the battery.
with the kickstarter you can give it it a solid kick, and it will probably run.
Question for you Morini guys, I am soprting out teething problems, I have no personal history of the bike running prior to my taking it on. It kick starts up OK, idles away OK, will restart when hot OK. I took it for a spin and after a block or two it starts to die, pump the throttle to keep it going, dies. Is thgis a symptom that I have the floats set too high, when I mean high - as measured from top of carb body flange to top of float the measurement should be less not more to get more fuel into the bowl?
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i would check if enough petrol reaches the carbs, a blocked petrol cap, or blocked fuel taps.
the fuel level should not change while the bike runs ( that is why it has floats in the first place. ) so if it runs well cold , there is no reason why it wouldn't a couple of blocks away .
i cant imagine both carbs being so much out of adjustment the engine dies.
if the fuel delivery to the carbs proves to be ok, the ignition would be the next suspect.
you might check soren hansens youtube channel , he did a extensive series on the morini ignition system.
( i gave up , my morini's have aftermarket ignitions)
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Leave the electric starter off, change the pully on the crank and mount a pull rope started from a Briggs and Stratton 8hp engine. More reliable and parts available everywhere!!
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I am trading this Morini for another Ducati project.
I am sorry to hear that, I would persevere with the Morini. On the other hand, if the Ducati project is a 750GT to which you are going to fit a Vincent engine, I am right behind you and will offer all the help I can! :laugh: :laugh:
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I got the relined starter clutch back today, the tech at the shop came out to tell me he thought the shoes were mounted upside down as they can fit either way. He said he has seen this type of starter clutch before and based upon how he envisioned the engine running he was pretty sure they were upside down.
After installing the starter sure enough it only spun, flipped the shoes over and presto the bike fired right up. Previous owner probably tried flipping the shoes as the lining was so worn he thought reversing them may work, it didn't! Previous owner did more than this for dumb ass bodges that has left me scratching my head.
(https://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/1978%20Moto%20Morini%20500/IMG_3437_zps0v3wqvpn.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/1978%20Moto%20Morini%20500/IMG_3437_zps0v3wqvpn.jpg.html)
Anyways I was pumped to see the electric foot working!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXJMS1ZhBx0&feature=youtu.be
Now to check timing with a strobe and see if I can get the on the road performance to be as good as it is at idle.
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:thumb: :thumb:
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:thumb: :popcorn:
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My K2's electric start motor needed a good servicing, so last Tuesday I disassembled it, inspected all of the bits - spur gear worn but reusable, several bearings were "notchy", seals leaky and one sticky brush.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61578967_2085310154924438_7403349863871545344_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_eui2=AeHtp8usrXp0TnhtDkZSqLyUH4Av4f428D1QfOYnIqI4r7T-524Lige7Y5xrDEI2rqTVyOReEvy0vfK4I2ViwpXeL1GyZ8Uqeo2uVcWz-7VAGQ&_nc_oc=AQlfQ7ebgmax0zc1yKoUUNmunhLeoBHIcZBkXkrlWlOjCKEhh0cixkKQB4soTAMHKns&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=9e78c4941838797723392def5c6a45d9&oe=5D985C75)
Ordered all of the bearings and seals from McMaster-Carr and Amazon. Started reassembling on Monday, finished up today when the last of the seals arrived. Filled it with oil, remounted it into the right engine cover after scuffing the shoes. Scuffed the drum as well before installing the cover back onto the engine. Hooked everything up, crossed my fingers, turned the key on and hit the button. First try it spun a bit slow, second try it spun faster than ever before. Success!
https://flic.kr/p/2g9XbCx
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My '78 500S starts OK on the button... but it's been a running battle. I always thought that some engineer, annoyed with the boring and unnecessary task of adding an e-start to the Morini modular mill, decided to employ one of every mechanism he could think of.
For those who decide to embark upon this quest, also check those starter solenoids, they're not much more than glorified horn relays. I replaced mine with a generic Ford-type mounted to the bottom of the battery tray. Check your high-current cables too, mine were corroded back inside the insulation. They looked fine from the outside, but only 2 or 3 conductors were left to carry all the current... can you say "big I*R drop?" Almost doubled the voltage at the starter motor with that one.