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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: pete roper on May 30, 2019, 06:59:45 AM
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And it's winter here :evil:
Just looking at Tonti framed big blocks, (Essentially from V7 Sport to the last of the Cali 1100's) with the five speed gearbox. Which ones in an order of 1,2,3 would you list as the exemplars?
While cosmetics will almost certainly trigger gut responses, and that's fine, can we also look at overall practicality, comfort, and 'Performance' with a long term and no doubt jaundiced view of ownership.
Pete.
PS. I'll give my opinions when others have jumped on board.
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Number one is easy.. V7 Sport. Number two? Tonti LeMans. Pick your year. Number 3? I'm really partial to the G5. :grin: Really, the T and T3 started the "touring" versions, though. The G5 is a little more sophisticated version of them.
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1000S, LeMans 1, SPNT.
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Lemans I, V7Sport, 1000S
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2002 Cali. nothing recalled on that model. run forever
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This is all about Tonti's Chuck. There were a host of versions over the years. I was asking people to balance the quantifiables of aesthetics, performance and anything else. I can see the attraction of the V7 Sport and yes, it is really *The* most aesthetically pleasing of them all to many but I'm asking for the 'Combination' of factors that make a *Great* Tonti, not looks alone and the 1, 2, 3 isn't supposed to be based on any one criteria.
The V7 Sport was always a bit of a turd in many ways, it was slow, uncomfortable and missed everyday accoutrements like air and oil filters. Did that matter? No, because it was sex on wheels! But being sex on wheels doesn't make it the 'Best'. Not in my book at least.
Pete
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1. 1000SP
2. SP3
3. Mille GT
Me personal, I can't do footboard bikes. These do it for me.
Lannis
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I had Converts, a G5 and a CalVin, but the Tonti framed bike I thought Moto Guzzi got 'right' was the V11 Bassa. I bought both a 1999 model and a 2000. Only those two model years had the attributes (adjustable forks/tubeless wheels) I'd spend my money on.
Aesthetics: IMHO was nice as the bike flowed together well instead of simply looking like assembled parts. The V11 Bassa still looks good all these years later while many of the other Tonti framed bikes look odd and dated with obvious shortcomings from the design department.
Practicality: Completely depends on opinion, wants, needs and desires of the owner.
Comfort: Was much improved with an EV floorboard subframe and V10 Centauro bars and risers
Performance: Way under powered but then again, I knew that going in.
Long Term Durability: Perhaps the last of the most reliable Tonti framed bikes. Plus this generation of models sold fairly well (in Moto Guzzi terms) so parts will be readily available throughout my lifetime and beyond.
Only the 2016 Eldorado has me considering a new(er) Moto Guzzi since the Bassa. Nothing else they've put out has garnered even a second look or any consideration.
For the Spine frame bikes I had a V11 Sport which I literally hated. In a years time I had to force myself to put 100 miles on it. I also had a Griso 8V which I loved in form of but didn't like the function a bit.
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Granted I live in New England w lots of fun two laners out the back door and I have the pleasure of avoiding interstates all I want. Those of you in Kansas will have a different lust.
#1.....850 T3FB what a sweet motor displaced by,..displacement. Perfect all arounder once you put on a decent suspension. I'd want this bare with no fairing, stock visuals. To me, similar to the British vertical twin experience, when the motor got bigger you lost something in smoothness. My choice today to replace it? All the new small-blocks
#2.....V1000 Convert, ducking and running for cover...its still controversial after all these years, yet there they are still running and available..I'm telling you roll the throttle on at 55 in low range with an extra 300 lbs of people and gear and you might be surprised at how well these hippos skate. Paint matched windjammer, DB bags, wide bars. No such thing as an auto EV to replace it
#3......a race spec lock wired ported polished racing slicks Hecht built fire breathing hi cam bigger carb alum alloy body work and the money to campaign it LeMan. Since I'm old and creeky I'll hire a racer and just hang out at the track and watch.
Howz that?
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Convert, Lemans 1, SPIII
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The T and T-3s, do any thing bikes my T went from cafe to tourer to a standard over 13 years, and they still look good after 40 years. My T-3 had that I brought back from a rusty mess.
(https://i.ibb.co/2dXrTYH/T-3a001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2dXrTYH)
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I'd have the long-seat Cal2 up there. The cal3 and all those variants that came later had poor ergos for me, but the long-seat model was really ideal. Not especially attractive, but so what...
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SPIII
Le Mans V
1000 S
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With all factors considered:
2003 Hydro EVT. The best motor ever in a Tonti IMO - once sorted of course. The one I shouldn't have ever sold.
1000S. Something sportier, uber rare, and style for miles while still being very functional.
T3 California. To me the coolest of the 850s.
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Interesting the number of votes for the SPIII. My mate Peter had one and deeply regrets having sold it. Every time I go to Townsville I have to listen to him raving on and on and on about it! I've only ever ridden a couple and can't remember seeing what all the fuss was about!
Pete
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1. 850 T5 with 16" wheels on both ends. The height of Tonti frame beauty and handling.
2. SP II
3. Cal III FF
:wink: :laugh: :wink: :laugh: :wink: :laugh: :wink: :laugh: :wink: :laugh: :wink: :laugh:
I'd rather have a Loopframe than any Tonti... :evil:
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That last line was horribly predictable Charlie! :grin:
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Performance, aesthetics
(https://i.ibb.co/YtCsXLm/DSCN5401.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YtCsXLm)
Practicality and comfort (Convert)
(https://i.ibb.co/QFQSkqd/DSCN5376.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QFQSkqd)
Nick
(but I'm with Charlie on this one.... :evil:)
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Interesting the number of votes for the SPIII. My mate Peter had one and deeply regrets having sold it. Every time I go to Townsville I have to listen to him raving on and on and on about it! I've only ever ridden a couple and can't remember seeing what all the fuss was about!
Pete
I can only speak for myself, but they're beautiful, still somewhat "simple" and reasonable to work on, well developed, and the ones I've seen will go forever (like Ron Good's one).
Downside is that your knees have to fit behind the fairing two up, and ours don't. Otherwise, it would be our touring bike. But I don't hold that against it; Guzzi can't be held responsible for Fay's 34" inseam ....
Lannis
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LeMans V - Pinnacle of the sporting Tonti Guzzi.
1000 S - The Aesthetics of the V7 Sport and S3, but with the mechanicals of the LM1000.
California Vintage - the Breva 1100 internals give it a leg-up over the V11EV, though the CalVin did lack tubeless wheels.
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I love them all , well , at least when the *green* wire isn't being a Richard :grin:
Maybe the Calvin or the Bassa , depends on my mood , some days the Jackal or the Lemans 5 , some days the V7 Sport . So many Tontis , so little time :laugh:
Dusty
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My first Guzzi... 2004 California Titanium. Third year living with her, and she's still as exciting as ever.
Someday she may be retired, but she will never be replaced.
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Nothing says "sex on wheels" like a Whale Dork! Another vote for the '02 CalStone! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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In no particular order (I do not do floor boards)
1.Lemans V big valve
2. Bassa (pearl white only)
3. Mille GT ( I prefer my Red Italian Stallion)
In 91 Fran was having a fire sale at Midway (more like he had cash flow problems :grin:) and offered me a LMV for $5900 out the door or the Mille for $5200. I was broke after a divorce so I took the Mille. I ended up putting bitubos and Writh progressive front springs on it, F0 9 front right caliper with sticky pads all around, Euro jetted with Agonstini stainless and at 6'5" it fits my frame. Even 2 up loaded with my wife and fully loaded soft bags and luggage rack it comes in a 1000#s and I can handle it well in the twisties and do 300 mile days with my wife or 500 solo. It's versatile and fast enough and a great stopper. With the 30 mm front end modified I have no issues with handling.
But those other 2 I listed I would love one of each.
The 1000S kills my back and legs so I could not list it: not functional
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2002 Cali. nothing recalled on that model. run forever
Hope you're right!
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1. V7 Sport
2. 850 LeMans
3. 1000S
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Le Mans Mk 1
1000S
T3
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In no particular order -
LeMans Mk 2
SP2
1000S
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Cal III Touring. Maybe one of the best fairings in the biz. Detachable Givi bags and trunk. Remove the trunk and you still have a useable rack.
Sort the forks and the seat and you have a serious mile muncher that handles.
SP/SPII/SPIII
All pretty much the same bike with a few upgrades along the way, the latter two being square fins. Again, Some of the best frames in the biz. Kinda sporty but tour well, too.
I would like to throw in a LeMans but I've never ridden one. But they are bike porn.
For the naked bike maybe the 2000 Jackal. Probably some of the best bikes Guzzi made. The ergos don't work for me, though.
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I agree that the "sporting" models look the best. I cannot ride them, so that leaves out even the SP. Of the upright seating Tontis,
1) G5, later model with FBs and mag wheels. Very comfy and solid on the road. No chrome bores, all the power I will ever use, decent brakes. If it has a weak spot, it's the puny charging system. (with crap wiring) Oldest Guzzi you can get and not make excuses for braking and the need for a nickasil top end. :evil:
2) Mille GT. Lovely, nice bike with the "world" engine. Too bad about the iggy system. :wink:
3) CalVin. I don't do fuel injection, but if I were to take the jump to light speed, I'd get a Calvin. Black with a skunk seat. Damn fine looking bike. Probably change the tail light to an older loop frame unit.
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Haven't ridden that many Guzzis.
I do like the Le Mans IV and the 1000S (same bike?)
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I rolled my own with a little of each model.
(https://i.ibb.co/Vw0t8Zg/20190417-135609.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Vw0t8Zg)
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I rolled my own with a little of each model.
I can vote on my own Tonti? 🤔
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I owned the Tontis that I liked best.
The LeMans 1 was the best mix of sport and tour for me. Exceptionally pretty-but it inherited a lot of that from..
My V7 Sport. Bought new, and at the time it wasn't slow. In fact by empirical test it was faster than CB750s, Coommandos etc. No air filter, but nothing bad happened in the 40,000 miles I put on it. No oil filter-changed the oil every 1500-2000 miles. Picking it up at the dealer remains my most memorable motorcycle purchase.
850T-had one foot in the original Tonti days, looked ahead to the deTomaso future.
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I've spent little time on other Guzzis, but have kept my V7 Sport through it all. It's not the fastest, nicest, $$$, most original, whatever bike I've ever had or even have right now. It's right for me and it always has been, so that's all that matters.
In defense of the tepid stats of the V7 Sport- When the V7 Sport came out, that was around the time when things really started changing in terms of disc brakes, pumper carbs, sporting bike displacement going beyond 750, etc. it was the start of more serious performance stats, so is destined to be the loser if compared on those things alone. That's what often happens when you go first. It's easier for the rest to be better. To me, the V7 Sport is more of a sports bike like our Triumph TR3 is a sports car.
And I'm betting my V700 Corsa-Record project will ultimately be my favorite Loop....
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While you can pretty much assemble any batch of componentry into a Tonti my main enquiry related to stock or 'Near stock' models.
FWIW my three favourites in no particular order would be the MkIII LeMans, SP 1000NT and the Hydro Cali 1100. Despite my deep affection for the Convert it didn't make it in simply because it's a bit too weird to be considered 'Mainstream'.
Pete
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My Vote would be mark 3 Lemans, but I really liked my Bassa high quality components and the best looking of all the Cals.
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Strictly cosmetics:
#1 V7 Sport
#2 750S / 750S3
#3 1000S
I do like the LM1 and LM3 as well, but prefer the above 3 when strictly talking cosmetics.
for balanced looks and performance
#1 1000S
#2 mk1 Le Mans 850
#3 mk3 Le Mans 850
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I have owed an Sp, 850T, Convert, Sport 1100 and Hydro California Special Sport. I bought the SpecialSport with the intentions of bringing what I liked in the various 45 year of Guzzi. Old style, modern hardware, Sport touring seating and performance. I never had any intentions of duplicating a specific model.
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1 - LeMans 1000 se with 16" front wheel
2 - 850 T3 ( first bike )
3 - I really like my 850 T but it's far from stock and I haven't fired up my convert project yet.
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Hello everyone
My three top best Tonti picks picks are backed up by outlying my cash:
1. 1000SP NT still own it (and after 30 years it's staying)
2. 850 Lemans 3 have owned one, sold it, bought it back, sold again (sob)
3. Hmmmm.......gets hard
I lust after a 750S3 - style, looks, linked brakes
I still want a Lemans Mk4, almost laid down the cash for a new one but bought the SP with 20,000km for only $1,800. No regrets as the SP is still my every day ride. Bit tragic that I have accumulated a heap of Mk4 parts over the years without every having owned one. Inevitable that one will find a way into the shed.
I also have a weird attraction towards a Cali III Full Fairing model.
But the final best Tonti spot.
Thought on this on the ride to work and home again and applied Italian motorcycle ownership logic.
Think back to the mid 80's. Did the Mk4 hit your ultimate Guzzi mark? Thought not.
Pre-Internet days Australian Motorcycle News magazine featured hotrod specials with 1100cc big bore kits, sinuous bodywork, special cam grind, big valves, mono shock rear suspension, Marzocchi forks, fully floating Brembos. Does that sound familiar?
Using irrefutable logic, the BEST Standard Tonti Guzzi is the 1100 Sport.
Provocative? Nah, you know it makes sense.
Cheers
Jason
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I kinda buy the argument-that was the last Guzzi for me so far-especially for performance.
Bu it lost out for general purpose sporty riding.
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This is a real tough one... and really I have not ridden them all, so I have to compair what people say about them, looks, and how they compair to others ive ridden..
1] 1000S... its the bike that turned me on to Guzzis when it came out. It was perfect..well despite all the flaws. :) Throttle so stiff it was like unscrewing lagbolts by hand... rock hard seat... etc.. But I loved riding it!!! Looked amazing!.. sounded great, I loved the seat/peg/bar layount.. Did I say the sound?... I never got to buy one... I could not afford it then, and its value has kept climbing with my amount of free cash... that being said... Its the bike for me... or at least is was for 30 year old me...
2] lemans I, II, or III.... I like the looks of the first gen the best.. but also like the II, and III... dont care for the later style even though I believe the later ones are better bikes...
3]... a tough one... I love the 750 sport, and 750S... but really I think the 1000S fills that, and gives better performance to boot... next I was thinking 1000SP ..for a sport tourer... but im a big guy, and while ive not riden one... I hear they can be pretty tight.. That leaves me to the T3, and the California platform... The T3 was the bread and butter that supported all the fancy ones we all love... it carried the brand, and more often then not, is the bike that came home when the glassy eyed shopper went to look at the new wizbang model.. It was the foundation... then we had the California models.... Im mainly talking the III, and EV family... Looks wise... OK not for everyone.. a little quarky.. but really, the later EV family are amazing bikes!!! Motors are great..frame and extras pretty well sorted [for a Guzzi. ] Truly a jump on and go for 100K miles.. ..That being said, I gotta go with the Cali models... They just got so many people into the brand, and they are still out there racking up the miles on at all parts of the world! they really do it all, and with a few mods can fit, and do whatever you want them to do...
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Nothing says "sex on wheels" like a Whale Dork! Another vote for the '02 CalStone! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
1. What he said! But my opinion is prejudiced...
2. LeMans I
3. SP I red and white.
Larry
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Using irrefutable logic, the BEST Standard Tonti Guzzi is the 1100 Sport.
1100 Sport is a Spine-frame, not a Tonti...
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Well seemingly we are been procative I'll ignore some rules mainly around 5 speed gearboxes the Bellagio 940 is by far the best, the other examples I've ever ridden stop and turn like the 1970's bikes they are with wooden brakes and heavy handling not to mention the untamed shaft drive just waiting to introduce some extra handling wierdness mid corner. A v7 telliao rosso sp? whould be nice to have however the 4LS front brake I doubt enhances the riding experince.
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My first Guzzi... 2004 California Titanium. Third year living with her, and she's still as exciting as ever.
Someday she may be retired, but she will never be replaced.
Nothing says "sex on wheels" like a Whale Dork! Another vote for the '02 CalStone! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Another "Stoner" here. Even better if it's a Hydro! :grin: My only Guzzi so far, but I love it.
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Well seemingly we are been procative I'll ignore some rules mainly around 5 speed gearboxes the Bellagio 940 is by far the best, the other examples I've ever ridden stop and turn like the 1970's bikes they are with wooden brakes and heavy handling not to mention the untamed shaft drive just waiting to introduce some extra handling wierdness mid corner. A v7 telliao rosso sp? whould be nice to have however the 4LS front brake I doubt enhances the riding experince.
The Bellagio was really neat. I really hoped we would get it in The USA, but we didn't.
Seemed like a great bike to continue developing, but alas, Piaggio killed it...
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Posted by: Antietam Classic Cycle
« on: Today at 09:04:57 AM » Insert Quote
Quote from: Fnq1000 on Today at 05:30:19 AM
Using irrefutable logic, the BEST Standard Tonti Guzzi is the 1100 Sport.
1100 Sport is a Spine-frame, not a Tonti...
= Irony :laugh:
All in good fun and in keeping with the thread title.
Cheers
Jason
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Quote: And it's winter here :evil:
Just looking at Tonti framed big blocks, (Essentially from V7 Sport to the last of the Cali 1100's) with the five speed gearbox. Which ones in an order of 1,2,3 would you list as the exemplars?
Well I don't know exemplars from a hole in the ground, but the '72 V7 Sport certainly changed my view of Guzzi's when I saw one in the late '70s. The earlier Guzzi's looked like old man's bikes to me, of course that's not so true now, so I began to look around for one and wound up with the 850T when a friend decided to sell it to buy a Harley. Never have ridden a V7 Sport, they're probably quite uncomfortable, especially now that I'm forty years older. But to me that bike will always be the one that sticks out as the #1 exemplar!
Oh and your complaint about evil winter, I suspect your current weather's more like our spring and fall, it's not so bad after six months of forty below, so just get over it and get out there!
(https://i.ibb.co/BVgjgbB/Moto-Guzzi-V7-Sport-71-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BVgjgbB)
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The Bellagio was really neat. I really hoped we would get it in The USA, but we didn't.
Seemed like a great bike to continue developing, but alas, Piaggio killed it...
I think it was created to simply soak up some left over parts from things like the 850 two valvers once they'd been used and the two valve not meeting emissions its job was done.
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I agree that the "sporting" models look the best. I cannot ride them, so that leaves out even the SP. Of the upright seating Tontis,
2) Mille GT. Lovely, nice bike with the "world" engine. Too bad about the iggy system.
Does anybody out there have a Mille with the original stock Moto Plat ignition system? I'd bet the farm that there are no Mille's left with that ignition system on it unless it has less than 10K miles. They all died. Although you can still by new parts for them in the Netherlands= $$$$$
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I agree that the "sporting" models look the best. I cannot ride them, so that leaves out even the SP. Of the upright seating Tontis,
2) Mille GT. Lovely, nice bike with the "world" engine. Too bad about the iggy system.
Does anybody out there have a Mille with the original stock Moto Plat ignition system? I'd bet the farm that there are no Mille's left with that ignition system on it unless it has less than 10K miles. They all died. Although you can still by new parts for them in the Netherlands= $$$$$
My '89 had points from the factory.
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A v7 telliao rosso sp? whould be nice to have however the 4LS front brake I doubt enhances the riding experince.
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While I will never own or even ride a TR, properly adjusted and arced 4LS front brakes work far better than the people who've never ridden with them say they do. Thing is, the response is exactly the opposite of discs: Absolutely no initial bite but they keep getting stronger as they heat up and can produce acceptable stopping distances.
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Whew, that's like picking a favorite child!
But:
1- V7 Sport, it is the original and met the criteria Tonti set out to achieve. "He was a jolly old elf, lively and quick." A beautiful bike to look at and a joy to ride. The 750 engine is just so sweet!
2- 1000 LeMans. Not some frame mounted fairing thing with that candy-ass 18 inch front wheel but a real 1000 LeMans. Keep your arguments to yourself cause this was the first successor to the V7 Sport that had the combination of performance and comfort that the Sport had. Only better!
3- Chuck is right. The 850 T3 is just about all a man needs. Handles great, stops on a dime and the 850 engine is and always will be great.
There are many lists of three I could make but these are the ones I would (and do) own and never give up.
Hunter
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green 1000S
lemans 850
lemans 5
V7 S
red 1000S :cool:
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I wouldn’t know the difference..