Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: kballowe on June 07, 2019, 06:18:55 PM
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Brand new (leftover) 2016 Eldorado 1400
So, on my home from work today and the little red triangle thingy on the lower right-side of the display starts flashing and the LCD readout says "URGENT SERVICE".
Hit the kill switch and rolled quietly off onto the road shoulder.
Trailered it home and will take it to the dealer in the morning.
Stay tuned.
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Well that stinks, it shouldn't take long to diagnose with the OBD. Could be as simple as resetting the throttle self learner. My guess is it's related to the RBW potentiometer. Hope you have her back soon. :popcorn:
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Kev, my TPS went out at 2600 miles on my 2015 1400 tourer. Fortunately I had some help from a good friend here on the forum to help me diagnose and fix the problem. With no dealer assist, I would have been in trouble otherwise.
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I remember when Charlie Avacatto was on his first ride with Jay and me. He had just picked up his Cali 1400 from FBF and had less than 100 miles on it. He got that warning, and in his case it was the demand sensor.
I heard Eraldo himself delivered the repaired bike to his house.
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Demand sensor, (A sort of four-way TPS.) is a likely culprit.
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I'm not having much luck today.
Got home and unloaded the Eldo and then decided to take a ride on the V9 Roamer that I bought new in January.
clickclickclickclic kclick
Rode it twice in the past two weeks, and each time, I had to put a charger on it to get it started. Squeaky clean terminals.
Got it started and took it for a 40 mile ride. Came home and put the meter on it - and it's charging.
Shut it off. Tried to start. clickclickclickclic k.
I dug out a YUASA 0.75A battery tender and hooked it up. After 5 minutes, the light turned green. Still clicking.
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I'm not having much luck today.
Got home and unloaded the Eldo and then decided to take a ride on the V9 Roamer that I bought new in January.
clickclickclickclic kclick
Rode it twice in the past two weeks, and each time, I had to put a charger on it to get it started. Squeaky clean terminals.
Got it started and took it for a 40 mile ride. Came home and put the meter on it - and it's charging.
Shut it off. Tried to start. clickclickclickclic k.
I dug out a YUASA 0.75A battery tender and hooked it up. After 5 minutes, the light turned green. Still clicking.
What is the voltage dropping to when you hit the starter? Sounds like a bad cell. Dealer just replaced my factory battery in the Himalayan. He was nice and replaced it with a Yuasa battery instead of the Indian one that came with the bike. 1500 miles and 8 weeks. Voltage was dropping to 7 volts and it it fired up I was good for a ride. If it didn't fire up, the voltage dropped to 3 volts on the next try and no start. When running the charging system is putting out 14.3 volts.
I keep all my bikes on tenders when parked.
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I was chased and attacked by a big GOOSE when I was a kid! Lol. Bit me on the back of the leg. Like a watchdog! Geese can bite although they’re So cute
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I dug out a YUASA 0.75A battery tender and hooked it up. After 5 minutes, the light turned green. Still clicking.
That's a sign of a dead battery..
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Pretend the gooses head is a baseball. One good swing and the goose won't bite anymore.
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The bike has the start relay supplied through the ignition switch, that's the recipe for future Startus Interruptus, the dreaded click click.
Test the battery and the starter together by running a wire from the solenoid spade terminal and touching it on the battery positive, thus bypassing the relay and wiring.
Don't forget to check the main ground connection also, I don't know where it is on the Roamer.
As a final check on the battery measure the Voltage while cranking, a good battery should maintain at least 10 Volts while turning the motor over, if it holds more than 11 it's not the battery.
My new V7 came with the battery terminals dry, I quickly re-connected it with Vaseline on the terminals, this stops the lead post oxidizing which can disconnect the battery even though the bolts are tight.
Final word of caution, before hot wiring make sure the bike is in neutral and hold in the clutch when you try the starter.
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UPDATE on the Eldo 1400
Trailered it to the dealer and they took it in immediately and checked it over and the light went out. Hooked up to PADS and no error code.
They replaced the oil sending unit, and then changed the oil and filter.
I got home and took it out for a short ride. Nothing.
Very happy with the folks at Flying Tiger Motorcycles in Maplewood (St. Louis) Missouri.
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UPDATE on the V7 Roamer
Battery checks good on two different "battery checkers" with load function. Hooked up the positive cable to the battery and the VOM between the negative cable and battery. All is well. No draw. Kicked the starter button and it fired right up. I still suspect this battery. We will see. It's making a monkey out of me !
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When I first got my 2014 Norge, it had a few issues and was sick and would get the red triangle of death on every ride. I just kept going :-)
took about three months to figure out that one of the cams was off a tooth. the motor would run but wouldn't rev past 6K RPM and occasionally I guess the system would throw the red triangle.
After Moto international aligned the cams properly I never got it back unless my finger slipped off the starter button before it had fully started that would always trigger a fault from the left coil.
Glad you got your things straightened out. My guess on the V 9 is that the battery is probably bad.
I haven't yet hooked up Guzzi diag to the mgx. I don't plan to change the exhaust or upgrade the map but go see diag is great for clearing and reading fault codes.
Something to keep in mind, there are occasional electrical glitches end sensor glitches that will throw the check engine light. Having a tool like Guzzi diag let you take care of things yourself and not have to deal with the buffoons at the dealerships. Sounds like you have a good dealer, but I prefer to fix things myself.
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Took the Eldo out for a dinner ride and everything was fine.
Stopped for fuel and all good.
Left the gas station and the light is back. Bike just died and I damned near dumped it.
Cycled the ignition several times. Waited a few minutes and tried again. Still there.
Started the bike several times and shut it off, inbetween alternating cycling the ignition switch.
The red triangle is now steady instead of flashing, and reads "SERVICE" instead of "URGENT SERVICE"
It's in limp mode.
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Potentiometer, do you have the cable and guzzi diag? If so, you can test both the demand sensor and the throttle control tracks. Mv values are in the service manual which you can download free here Pages 124 to 128 electrical section
https://cadrecycle.com/manuals/technical/California%201400.pdf
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Took the Eldo out for a dinner ride and everything was fine.
Stopped for fuel and all good.
Left the gas station and the light is back. Bike just died and I damned near dumped it.
Cycled the ignition several times. Waited a few minutes and tried again. Still there.
Started the bike several times and shut it off, inbetween alternating cycling the ignition switch.
The red triangle is now steady instead of flashing, and reads "SERVICE" instead of "URGENT SERVICE"
It's in limp mode.
Kev, did you say which code was thrown. Mine acted the exact same way when the TPS went out at 2600 miles.
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Kev, did you say which code was thrown. Mine acted the exact same way when the TPS went out at 2600 miles.
No sorry. Charlie didn't work on it himself and FBF fixed it so I don't know.
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Kev, did you say which code was thrown. Mine acted the exact same way when the TPS went out at 2600 miles.
Dan -
Oddly enough, no code.
GREMLINS, I tell you !
:shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
Kevin
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Hi kballowe,
My '15 Cali 1400 threw an urgent service code with about 400 mi on the odometer. However, it did it after being stored for about three months (with tender ). I cycled the ignition a few times and it the service light went out. Haven't seen it in over 8k miles. Maybe low voltage?
Be well,
DougG
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Sunday.
Switched on the ignition and there was a steady red triangle and "SERVICE". Started the bike and it went to the flashy red triangle and "URGENT SERVICE. Cycled the ignition three times, giving enough time for the fuel pump to pressure-up and all of the instrument lights to settle down. Waited 10 seconds between cycles. After that, started engine. Still flashing.
Turned off ignition and waited 20 seconds. Cycled twice more and started the bike - and no flashy light.
So, took a 50 mile ride with a mixture of town, 2-lane, and interstate. Shut the bike off for 30 minutes. All good upon restart.
Heading out for more "experimentation"
I really like this bike (except for the GREMLINS)
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OK, so now at 1,100 miles. The OMG light comes on most times on startup and a bit of switching the ignition and starting the bike a couple of times and then shutting it off makes the light go away and then the bike runs great.
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Wednesday.
125 miles. Five uneventful stop/ride sequences, with shutoff times varying from ten minutes to four hours. Last ride of the day (event six) produced the dreaded flashy light and "URGENT SERVICE" message. Note that this happened from a cold start, and not whilst riding.
Cycled the ignition as described in the post above, and the fault cleared itself.
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.
https://youtu.be/0asMObBDkfU (https://youtu.be/0asMObBDkfU)
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It's the demand sensor. Get it warrantied.
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Listen to the man, Kevin.. :smiley:
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I have a 2016 Eldorado and really LOVE the bike. Except for the "SERVICE URGENT" issue.
It started at about 1200 miles while still under warranty, about when the only Guzzi dealer in Phoenix, AZ dropped the line.
It was intermittent for a while, always giving a P0155 fault code, (sometimes a P0156 in addition). after clearing it runs fine for for a while then comes back
There is a definite pattern.
1). After starting the bike it shows "SERVICE URGENT", red light flashing and in limp mode.
2). Turn off the ignition and restart it, then it shows "SERVICE" with steady on red light, ride to work (not on limp mode).
3). Get to work then turn the ignition off and on again, restart and "SERVICE" shows for a few seconds then goes away and all is good.
I want to do a TPS reset to see if that will fix it but I can't find that option on GuzziDiag. Can someone direct me on how to do that?
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We don't do a TPS reset on the 7SM ECU. You'll need to relearn the 'Handle', and relearn the 'Throttle', in that order.
I recommend when doing this, to ignore GuzziDiag when it asks you to turn off the key after relearning the Handle. Simply click OK. GuzziDiag will close. Then, re-open it, and connect. Don't switch the key off. Then relearn the Throttle.
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beetle,
Thanks for the advice, I'll give that a try.
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I want to do a TPS reset to see if that will fix it but I can't find that option on GuzziDiag.
Make sure you have guzzidiag set to the 1400,1AW 7sm should appear at the bottom of page, > actors> follow prompts handle and throttle self learners
Also if you scroll down the functions under measurements you can test Mv values on the the handle and throttle tracks. >TGPS A,B,C,D ( throttle grip position sensor)
and Throttle CF1, CF2 , 2CF1 2
These are the 8 tracts utilized by the ecu to cross check input values from demand sensor for throttle input.
Sample values are in the workshop manual in the electrical section pages 123 thru 127, here,
https://cadrecycle.com/manuals/technical/California%201400.pdf
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Also another thing to check on these bikes throwing the urgent service warning is the air box/ air filter. First I would check the air box ,oil collection tube for any oil. (Clear tube with the rubber plug under middle of bike.) If there is oil in the tube I would next remove and inspect the air filter / air box for oil saturation. These bikes have an intake air pressure sensor that can also throw the code if the filter gets clogged with oil. An easy thing to rule out in any case.
There should be stored fault codes in the ecu for any condition that triggers the urgent service lights.
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Thanks Lucian
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It's the demand sensor. Get it warrantied.
If I were a betting man I'd say this is spot on. If it's under warranty, let them look into this part asap.
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I cleared the fault codes (P0155 & P0156) and did the handle & throttle self learning using GuzziDiag. Unfortunately it didn't solve the problem.
Consistent symptom: "SERVICE URGENT" after turning ignition on when engine is cold; start bike then turn ignition off & on and get "SERVICE"; warm engine up turn ignition off & on and everything is good.
Next step is to take Lucien's advice and look at the throttle control track and demand sensor.
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It's the demand sensor. Warranty it.
(I'm going to get sick of saying this. When V85's do it I'm going to get even more sick of saying it.)
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PO155 = inconsistant signal from track C-D, the white marked side of demand sensor. Any reading outside of the 600-1400Mv range = bad sensor
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PO155 = inconsistant signal from track C-D, the white marked side of demand sensor. Any reading outside of the 600-1400Mv range = bad sensor
That’s exactly right👍👍👍👍
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Aaargh! I shouldn't have been following this thread!
Now the Griso has started showing the red triangle + service message. Disappears when I switch off, then returns after a while.
2009 8V, 15.700 km, happened twice on the first ride of the season, 100 km. :sad:
I'll check in at the Ghetto and see what I find there.
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Check your error codes. Main menu --> Diagnosis
Service code 12425
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Thanks, Beetle! (at a quick glance, I didn't find anything very useful on the Ghetto)
No ECU errors.
Dashboard 08 shows "Memo"
Heated grips mounted before yesterday's first trip of the season.
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Dash 08 is oil pressure sensor.
Check the connector. They can be a bit dodgy.
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hmmmm - tank removal necessary?
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Reading this got my curiosity.
So I googled the "Demand Sensor" and found that it's a problem component throughout several Aprilia and Guzzi models. I just wonder why it's such a bad part and whether the manufacturer has improved the reliability or if the replacements are still the same?
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A few more days, a couple hundred miles, approx 9 starts.
No issues.
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Reading this got my curiosity.
So I googled the "Demand Sensor" and found that it's a problem component throughout several Aprilia and Guzzi models. I just wonder why it's such a bad part and whether the manufacturer has improved the reliability or if the replacements are still the same?
I can’t remember where I received the information but I was informed that there were a batch of those sensors that had issues and were distributed throughout these bike models and the only way to identify the ones with factory issues is when us unfortunate ones got stuck with them:(
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hmmmm - tank removal necessary?
Yes. Unless you have tiny hands and long skinny arms. No need to completely remove it. Unscrew, lift up, rest on frame, or piece of wood, etc.
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Dropped the bike off at the dealer today.
The issue was becoming more and more frequent.
1,700 miles now
This bike is a blast to ride. Gremlins notwithstanding
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How about a short video ?
https://youtu.be/0asMObBDkfU (https://youtu.be/0asMObBDkfU)
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It’s the demand sensor. Warranty it.
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This is probably a dumb question: Is the Demand Sensor the Throttle Position Sensor?
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The demand sensor is a sort of four way TPS. It has four tracks that all have to produce signals that correspond with each other. If they don't it triggers a 'Service' or 'Urgent Service' warning as it means the ECU might incorrectly open the throttle if it were to rely on a single, wrong, reading. It's a four way redundancy to make sure that can't happen.
Pete
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Waiting on my nos 16 Eldorado to be delivered and saw this thread. Too funny. I have to remind myself that a hit dog barks. Sorry you are having those issues. I really hope, and expect that it’s an anomaly. Really really hope lol. Oh and The Miami Guzzi dealer is in a dealing :food: mood.
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Finally had some spare time to hook up the GuzziDiag and read the TGPS tracks. A-B were constantly within 100Mv range.
However, C-D difference was ~1,300Mv and the P0155 code was registered. I cleared the fault code turned ignition off/on and read ~1,300Mv C-D difference. Repeated several time with consistent results.
After warming up the engine and cycling the ignition off/on a few times the C-D track difference was <100Mv (and no P0155 fault code).
Key takeaway is P0155 fault is consistently happening after turning ignition on when engine is cold.
So, It looks like I have a bad demand sensor.
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I'd suggest you are correct.
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The demand sensor is a sort of four way TPS. It has four tracks that all have to produce signals that correspond with each other. If they don't it triggers a 'Service' or 'Urgent Service' warning as it means the ECU might incorrectly open the throttle if it were to rely on a single, wrong, reading. It's a four way redundancy to make sure that can't happen.
Pete
Thanks Pete, I really appreciate your advice & expertise on this.
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No expertise! I have little experience with the 7SM! In fact Michael and I are having kittens trying to get a Kali Kustom mapped up and getting the TC working properly. Every time it is turned on it defaults to turning the TC off. Not a problem when it's running but boring as you have to turn it on again at every start! It's also not willing to calibrate. I'm sure I'm doing something simple wrong, I just haven't worked out what yet! :rolleyes:
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And so today we go back to this Cali all prepared to remap it after ensuring the TC was on in case it had defaulted to off because of the battery replacement. Anyway, turn the key on, everything is perfect! No more TC issues. Calibrated fine!
Grrrrrrrrrr! :grin:
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...everything is perfect! No more TC issues.
Who says that motorcycles don't have personalities!
Be well,
DougG
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I just replaced the Throttle Position Sensor with a new one.
Do I need to do anything with GuzziDiag? (resets, etc)
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Handle relearning & throttle relearning, in that order.
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I just finished installing the new TGPS (Demand Sensor). I used GuzziDiag to do handle & throttle re-learning and then measured the track voltages:
New TGPS: Track A=1201mV, B=1084, C=3940, D=3848. I cycled the ignition on/off & twisted the throttle several times and took additional readings which were consistent each time. Also no "URGENT SERVICE" warnings and no fault codes.
So far so good! Hopefully this TGPS lasts a long time.
Faulty TGPS readings were: Track A=1123, B=1025, C=3726, D=2470. The high deviation of the C-D tracks was consistent with the P0155 fault code I was getting.
Thanks to everyone on this forum who gave me good advice on diagnosing this problem.
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Mine is in the shop. Third time. A month or more this time. It's under warranty.
I was told (each time) that it was hooked up to PADS and that "it threw no code".
As of yesterday, it appears that they have the wrong software load on their PADS. There's more, and let's just say that I'm not getting that warm fuzzy feeling about all of this. At this point, I'm nearly ready to buy the part and fix it myself.
More to come.
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I think we've got a spare good one hanging around. Would you like to borrow it? Mind you if they are so f***ing hopeless they can't use even the excreble PADS to identify a problem what are the chances of them being able to install a new demand sensor and then do the handle and throttle re-learning?
Your shop are a pack of bloody clowns. Sell the bike and buy something that can be serviced by shaved apes, at least to the point it will haul your arse from 'A' to 'B'! Sure you shouldn't have this problem but you've been told endlessly what the problem is and these assholes sit there with there thumbs ups their arse and no idea!
No wonder Guzzi are seen as a 'Niche' market!?!?
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I think we've got a spare good one hanging around. Would you like to borrow it?
Thank-you Pete for that offer :thumb: - but I'm going to wait this out, just a bit longer.
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I think we've got a spare good one hanging around. Would you like to borrow it? Mind you if they are so f***ing hopeless they can't use even the excreble PADS to identify a problem what are the chances of them being able to install a new demand sensor and then do the handle and throttle re-learning?
Your shop are a pack of bloody clowns. Sell the bike and buy something that can be serviced by shaved apes, at least to the point it will haul your arse from 'A' to 'B'! Sure you shouldn't have this problem but you've been told endlessly what the problem is and these assholes sit there with there thumbs ups their arse and no idea!
No wonder Guzzi are seen as a 'Niche' market!?!?
“Shaved Apes” LMAO😂😂😂😂😂you crack me up Pete 😂and as usual you are exactly right. Kev and I have been discussing this but I think right now he is between a rock and a hard place and due the cost of that stupid sensor he may be. Ether off to ride this one out. Lol, he got a gazillion other bikes to ride👍
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Progress..... (I think)
I was informed (via a voicemail) that
"We found an error code and cleared it, and it kept coming back and we kept clearing it and it kept coming back so we took a bunch of stuff apart and went thru everything and put it back together and test rode it and the error code did not come back but we'd like to keep it a couple days to ride it to make sure"
They didn't say what the error code was.
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"Took a bunch of stuff apart"
What "stuff"? That would infuriate me. If you find the error code, we could probably diagnose it remotely better than these clowns.
:violent1:
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I would be insisting that every thing they touch on your bike is written down in detail on the service history. Including the fault codes. Any tech with a clue about modern efi bikes should be able to sort this out with ease.
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Meh. It's possible that something got lost in the translation from tech to phone guy.
It'll probably just heal itself.
Can I get an AMEN ???
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If, as we suspect, it's the demand sensor it won't 'Heal itself'. It may seem like 'White Man Ju-Ju' but it's not. It's a simple process of elimination. If it's throwing an error code then you dont just 'Take stuff apart'. You see what the code relates to and you concentrate on that part first! In this case the demand sensor!
Arrrrrggggghhhhh!
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If, as we suspect, it's the demand sensor it won't 'Heal itself'. It may seem like 'White Man Ju-Ju' but it's not. It's a simple process of elimination. If it's throwing an error code then you dont just 'Take stuff apart'. You see what the code relates to and you concentrate on that part first! In this case the demand sensor
Arrrrrggggghhhhh!
OK, well - I have a sack of chicken bones somewhere from today's dinner. I could cast them..... and see what they say
:boozing: :boozing: :boozing:
In the mean time, EVERYONE please say a prayer for my bike. I know that I AM.
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Sadly prayer won't fix it either. Someone who doesn't look like this
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400795142_33860237cb_z.jpg)
doing the diagnostic work would probably be a good start. :evil:
Pete
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Kev, what did they say about the demand sensor?
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Kev, what did they say about the demand sensor?
I really didn't get a chance to talk with them, and they didn't say (in the voicemail). Not that I hadn't already tried to convince them that it was the TPS sensor on more than one occasion.
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On June 8th you posted you were pleased with the dealer, Flying Tigers. Today, on July 28th, they still haven't rectified the likely Demand Sensor issue. Why haven't they been able to replace and warranty the demand sensor in all this time? What does a replacement demand sensor cost anyway? Perhaps anyone considering buying a leftover 1400 should get a new demand sensor with the bike to prevent this crazy situation.
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On June 8th you posted you were pleased with the dealer, Flying Tigers. Today, on July 28th, they still haven't rectified the likely Demand Sensor issue. Why haven't they been able to replace and warranty the demand sensor in all this time? What does a replacement demand sensor cost anyway? Perhaps anyone considering buying a leftover 1400 should get a new demand sensor with the bike to prevent this crazy situation.
Hi Mark, I had to replace mine at 2700 miles. A new one is 450 bucks. My buddy Dave, found me a used one in Canada for 150.00. It was throwing the dreaded PO155, yep TPS. MY RESEARCH revealed a bad batch of these sensors were produced by the company who produced them, can’t remember who, and they were distributed throughout the cycle world. Several brands and year models use this sensor.
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Hi Mark, I had to replace mine at 2700 miles. A new one is 450 bucks. My buddy Dave, found me a used one in Canada for 150.00. It was throwing the dreaded PO155, yep TPS. MY RESEARCH revealed a bad batch of these sensors were produced by the company who produced them, can’t remember who, and they were distributed throughout the cycle world. Several brands and year models use this sensor.
Even more reason the demand sensor should have been warrantied and replaced many weeks ago. I can't imagine putting up with this drawn out non service repair when the demand sensor is known failure item. The options are few, either the technicians are shaved apes as Mr. Roper suggests or Piaggio has denied the warranty claim. Either option is multi faceted and simply untenable.
Like I said, anyone purchasing a leftover Moto Guzzi that uses this demand sensor should work a replacement into the purchase agreement. I certainly would if I were buying a leftover 1400.
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The same demand sensor is used on all the bikes that use the 7SM including RSV-4, TV-4, Cali14, V85 and I think the Cappo 1200 to name but a few. A few years back there was a recall for a run of V4's that had dodgy demand sensors. I wonder if Piaggio just shunted them down the road to Mandello?
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That's a sign of a dead battery..
Being bit by a goose?
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OK, so "took a bunch of stuff apart" mostly meant that they took apart and inspected all of the electrical connectors and then cleaned each one and then added dielectric grease, and reassembled them.
The code that it kept throwing was 155.
Yes, I know.
I'm told that "it's probably fixed", and so I will pick it up tomorrow.
Gentlemen - PLACE YOUR BETS !
- We now return you to your regularly-scheduled programs -
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I'm sorry but that does not sound very promising.
And I won't even get started on the dielectric grease...
John Henry
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My bet is that Pete is correct and your bike is getting the equivalent of shaved ape service.
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Just a little light at the end of the tunnel maybe. I’ve said l along that it was more than likely the TPS sensor because it acted just like mine did however there is a possibility it could have been a faulty connection related to the sensors. Just maybe, hopefully, cross your fingers, knock on wood etc etc etc!!!!!
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..........it could have been a faulty connection related to the sensors. Just maybe, hopefully, cross your fingers, knock on wood etc etc etc!!!!!
It's about 400 miles to the Wisconsin rally this weekend and I was planning to ride - BUT it looks like it's going to Wisconsin on a trailer. Either way, it's going to Wisconsin.
:thumb:
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God's teeth! :violent1: :violent1: :violent1:
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Did they connect it to PADS and verify the sensor function? Takes all of ten minutes. If not , bring the trailer. Just sayin.
I'll let someone else start the dielectric grease thread :violent1:
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Piaggio should step up and get this crap off the street and get proactive. It's dang stupid for the company to try to save a buck and throw what customers they have under the bus. I'd think they should get these parts to the service dept and turn the bikes around in the afternoon. Geees, spend $15k on a bike and leave it in the shop for the first 30 days.
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John, in this case it's not Piaggio's fault. All the dealership has to do is submit a warranty claim stating that the bike is throwing the code and that the track voltages are out of range and warranty will be approved. Back when I was a service agent I submitted several such claims and they were all approved at the 'Local' level, ie in Oz, with no reference back to the factory.
It's a clear, identified issue. It should be fixed as soon as the part is available. Check the part# on the AF1 site. I'll bet if they don't have one in stock they will say it will ship in 5 to 7 days which means it's in stock in Atlanta or wherever their warehouse is now and just has to be sent to them. If it's in the warehouse this dealership needs to submit a warranty claim, get the part, fit it and do the handle and throttle learning. Two hours or so work in that at most I'd think. It's pure idiocy.
Pete
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John, in this case it's not Piaggio's fault. All the dealership has to do is submit a warranty claim stating that the bike is throwing the code and that the track voltages are out of range and warranty will be approved. Back when I was a service agent I submitted several such claims and they were all approved at the 'Local' level, ie in Oz, with no reference back to the factory.
It's a clear, identified issue. It should be fixed as soon as the part is available. Check the part# on the AF1 site. I'll bet if they don't have one in stock they will say it will ship in 5 to 7 days which means it's in stock in Atlanta or wherever their warehouse is now and just has to be sent to them. If it's in the warehouse this dealership needs to submit a warranty claim, get the part, fit it and do the handle and throttle learning. Two hours or so work in that at most I'd think. It's pure idiocy.
Pete
Pete, the problem I ran into when my 1400 went po155, TPS, the dealer told me the only way it could be fixed under warranty was if the factory furnished the parts and they were not allowed to get the needed part anywhere but the factory or I’d would not be covered.
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You misunderstood me Dan. I'm not saying that they should get the part anywhere else, simply that by checking availability through somewhere like AF1 you can ascertain if the part is available in the warehouse, unless AF1 keep one on the shelf. Given the number of Aprilias and Guzzis they deal with chances are they may do so in which case you won't get an answer as to availability in the importer's warehouse but at least it's an indicator.
The thing is that if it is in stock in the importer's warehouse the only thing stopping Ken's bike being fixed properly is a perverse and obtuse attitude at the dealer to putting in a warranty claim!
Pete
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Just checked AF1
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48419745912_0d0e4c090d_z.jpg)
That 'Arrives in 5-7 business days' means there is one in the US. If there isn't then it's usually three to five weeks, (From memory.)
Pete
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The thing is that if it is in stock in the importer's warehouse the only thing stopping Ken's Kevin's bike being fixed properly is a perverse and obtuse attitude at the dealer to putting in a warranty claim!
Pete
lol - close enough
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Sorry Ken, my bad. No offence meant.
Pete
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Sorry Ken, my bad. No offence meant.
Pete
Nobody cares. Certainly not me. :boozing:
Kevin B
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You're intent on putting your Eldorado on a trailer to Wisconsin so I'll assume you have a plan to actually get your Eldorado fixed. Is there a dealer in Wisconsin with a technician who knows how to file a warranty claim or that has the Demand Sensor in stock? Or does someone at the Wisconsin rally have the demand sensor your Eldo seems to need? Either way, getting it out of the Flying Tigers Service (?) Department seems like a great idea.
From reading this thread, what your Eldorado needs seems fairly clear at this point. It's just too bad the bike has been inoperable for a big slice of Summer. Hopefully bringing it to the Wisconsin Rally will get it fixed and running correctly.
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The offer of a loaner is still there. I think I have one off a TV4 that was a warranty job that hadn't failed that you could use as a test mule for nix. I'm certainly not going to sell it! It's a warranty take off ffs!
Pete
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You're intent on putting your Eldorado on a trailer to Wisconsin so I'll assume you have a plan to actually get your Eldorado fixed.
I will be attending the Wisconsin Moto Guzzi rally and that [censored] Eldorado is also attending the rally, one way or another.
Not trusting it enough to expect 1,000+ trouble-free miles in three days. Not just yet.
So, on a trailer it goes and then I'll ride it around a few days and see if it behaves.
But no, not planning on having it fixed in Wisconsin.
The offer of a loaner is still there. I think I have one off a TV4 that was a warranty job that hadn't failed that you could use as a test mule for nix. I'm certainly not going to sell it! It's a warranty take off ffs!
Pete
Thanks Pete ! But, I think we're making progress here ! Certainly, this Eldorado will be well sorted by Christmas !
:bike-037:
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BY CHRISTMAS!!! (Gurgle!)
I hope you're not serious?
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kballowe
It’s your new bike and you’re certainly able to do with it as you desire. Perhaps the worst part of this entire fiasco is that anyone considering a new or a left over Moto Guzzi 1400 may be better served to look elsewhere. This thread and many more like it cast the brand in a very poor light.
One of my brothers bought a new Ural years ago and it’s been virtually trouble free with excellent dealer support when needed. How could, or why has, Piaggio allowed the Moto Guzzi brand’s support to pale in comparison to Ural? I don’t currently have a Guzzi but I would like to own one again at some point. Ongoing poor support and dealers dropping out are certainly cause for reconsideration. Although the bright side is the brands plummeting resale value allows used ones to be bought very inexpensively.
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OK, but look at all the great support on this board, and some others.
LOL - collectively, we can fix anything !
:thumb:
Kevin B
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OK, but look at all the great support on this board, and some others.
LOL - collectively, we can fix anything !
:thumb:
Kevin B
Yup, great internet forum advice/support can be had from every forum I've ever been on. Of course it's nearly meaningless if not acted upon with a motorcycle that's under warranty at an authorized servicing dealer. No one I ride with, on any brand motorcycle, would consider trailering a new bike to an event because it can't be trusted to run correctly after being at an authorized servicing dealer for almost 2 months.
You certainly have more patience than the situation calls for IMHO. I sincerely hope your beautiful Eldorado runs wonderfully for you in Wisconsin. Otherwise you'll just have a beautiful trailer queen. No Moto Guzzi Eldorado 1400 should be a trailer queen that can't be trusted to run properly. Hopefully there's an actual servicing dealer between the Wisconsin Rally and your home 400 miles away that the Eldo can be dropped off at for a proper warranty claim.
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Rode it home yesterday. Managed 75 miles with 7 restarts, and "off" time varying from ten minutes to four hours.
No issues.
:bike-037:
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It's going to bite you on the bum.
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It's going to bite you on the bum.
I know.
I know.
BUT - (fortunately) I do have something else to ride.
:bike-037:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7805/40423516493_9962d4c8dc_b.jpg)
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Patience, and a plan, nothing wrong with that.
I hope you'll enjoy the rally, and that your bike will be fixed soon.
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Keep fingers crossed, maybe luck up and was a connection.
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I seriously doubt it's fixed. The P0155 code shows the voltage is out of range and it's a known issue. It's only a matter of time until it recurs. Just hope it isn't in the middle of nowhere.
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(https://i.ibb.co/0pNFZ2K/MECHANIC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0pNFZ2K)
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Day 1 . Rode it home Wednesday. Managed 75 miles with 7 restarts, and "off" time varying from ten minutes to four hours.
Day 2. Thursday Aug 1st. 71 miles. 5 starts.
Day 3. Hooked up trailer n truck n gave truck keys and $100 to my buddy.
Lit the Eldorado up and rode it the 411 miles to the Wisconsin rally.
No issues.
Hopefully I won't need to make that phone call.
:thumb:
(https://i.ibb.co/d0wG9Cq/IMG-20190802-175517.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d0wG9Cq)
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Give Big Daddy a hey howdy for me! :boozing:
John Henry
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OK, so I got home a bit early from the rally and all went well. Approx 1,000 miles and no issues
Could this thing be cured ????
I just now got home and rode the bike into the basement - and guess what ?
Here's a little video for all ya'all
https://youtu.be/blvpi_wjQiE (https://youtu.be/blvpi_wjQiE)
:angry: :angry: :angry:
THAT sucks the big one.
The bright side ? I got all the way back home before it happened.
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It’s fantastic that you were able to enjoy the bike and that the next failure was after you made it home.
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It’s fantastic that you were able to enjoy the bike and that the next failure was after you made it home.
LOL - I know I know.
But, (as it turns out) there really IS a trailer in this story. On Tuesday, when they open.
:thumb:
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Glad you at least got a chance to ride it, and it got you home. The problem with the hall effect sensors is they can and do fault intermittently. Not like the old school mechanical potentiometers that either worked or they didn't. If the po155 code has reappeared, I "m willing to bet track D Mv reading at 0 throttle will be way low, say 1900 Mv + or -. ( should be near 4 v) I hope they buck up and get you a new demand sensor under warranty. Thanks for taking the time to keep us all posted.
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There is no reason why I should feel this way but it makes me blood-vessel burstingly angry.......
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So sorry my friend but I was afraid that ghost would reappear because mine did the exact same thing. It would disappear for a few days and many miles and starts to just reappear from one crank to the next. I’d bet money that I bet that Dave could take it apart and test it and one side or the other would be bad. Hey look at the bright side he does have half of a good side in his possession now and I’m pretty sure he’d give it to you:) it will get fixed one way or the other my friend, give me a call when you get a chance.
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The offer is still open for you to walk into the shop with my TV4 take off and ask them to give it a shot. If it cures it they get a new one and install it and contribute 1/2 the price of a new one, (Theirs will be warranty, yes?) to Medicienes sans Frontiers. And yes, from these clowns I'd want a receipt. Oh, and make sure you get my take off back.
Pete
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Hi Kevin,
I'm riding the " Demon Demand Sensor" train now myself ('15 Cali 1400), and as Dave, Dan and others have said, it doesn't happen all the time. But it is always waiting. Mine has never failed when riding, always at start up and eventually clears with a few re-starts. I bought two off ebay already and they both tested bad (on both it was D track failure...1232 mv, one had a weak C track as well...791 mv). Thanks again Dave for the test routine. I sent them both back with a note of explanation. I've also decided to stop messing around and buy new from Harper's - $425. My riding time is worth all of that. I'll let you know when it comes in and I do the install.
Be well,
DougG
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Do the new ones have a manufacture date on them so you know they're not of the same bad batch that made it into so many bikes years ago? If not, has the manufacturer changed anything about the design to ensure more reliability of the new one?
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Do the new ones have a manufacture date on them so you know they're not of the same bad batch that made it into so many bikes years ago? If not, has the manufacturer changed anything about the design to ensure more reliability of the new one?
From what I understood when I was researching the TPS issue with my 1400, the company that produces them, made a bad batch produced and distributed among several brands and year models that use this exact sensor and best of my recollection it was several years ago. However a cycle company that purchased several hundred of these could still be using them in recent production bikes.
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Hi all,
Good thoughts Mark and Dan. All I can add is that I have the identical bike in a '17 model. It has not thrown a fault code in 1200 miles...yet. Hopefully, Marelli figured out the problem. When I buy the demand sensor I will do so only with the agreement that I will bench test it before install and if it fails, they get it back. I'll report.
Be well,
DougG
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Best of luck to you on that. It’s common to see a “No Return On Electrical Parts” notification at many dealers. That’s why I’m wondering if there’s a visual indication on the Demand Sensor noting a newer Revision number or a Manufacture Date. Is there anything to visually identify the batch of bad ones? Could a new warranty Demand Sensor replacement from Piaggio be from the suspect batch? I suspect ‘someone’ at Piaggio knows a lot about this issue. Like if it’s low single digit warranty item or worse.
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......annnnnd it's back to the dealer.......
:angry:
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Hi all,
Latest report on the demand sensor - Cali 1400.
I called Harpers yesterday and spoke with Curtis. He was helpful but said that he was unaware of the issue and had never sold a single one of the TGPS (B044414). He also said that he would check with his supplier on the issue. I just spoke with Curtis and he said his supplier told him that there was a problem with the part years ago but they were only put in Aprilias. (I will save my comments on that for a later post).
Curtis also said that if there are problems now, he was informed that they arise from the connectors and advised me to clean them, be sure they are on straight and put out the word to fellow Guzzists. I hope that is the case, it could be. After all the problem is intermittent.
Thank you Curtis for your legwork and recommendation.
There you have it. I will take the tank off in the next couple of days, clean all contacts and report if I experience the "dread red triangle" anon.
Be well,
DougG
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As stated previously there was a recall on a run of V4's that had dodgy demand sensors. That is probably what is being referred to. This does NOT mean that because there hasn't been a recall by the Guzzi arm of Piaggio the component is infallible and judging from recent posts here it would seem that the Cali 14's at least are having a problem with another bad run, or perhaps they are just repurposing the bad V4 ones? Who knows.
Not every V4 in the recall range had a dodgy sensor but a recall was performed. Why Guzzi can't get the parent company to do the same thing I have no idea.
The thing is with Kevin's bike the shop has already done all the disconnecting and cleaning business. They have also got repeated P0155 error codes which, as has been explained relates to the track voltages in the demand sensor going out of range triggering a service or urgent service warning. Taking it apart, again, will achieve nothing. The part is 'Donald Ducked' and should be replaced.
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As stated previously there was a recall on a run of V4's that had dodgy demand sensors. That is probably what is being referred to. This does NOT mean that because there hasn't been a recall by the Guzzi arm of Piaggio the component is infallible and judging from recent posts here it would seem that the Cali 14's at least are having a problem with another bad run, or perhaps they are just repurposing the bad V4 ones? Who knows.
Not every V4 in the recall range had a dodgy sensor but a recall was performed. Why Guzzi can't get the parent company to do the same thing I have no idea.
The thing is with Kevin's bike the shop has already done all the disconnecting and cleaning business. They have also got repeated P0155 error codes which, as has been explained relates to the track voltages in the demand sensor going out of range triggering a service or urgent service warning. Taking it apart, again, will achieve nothing. The part is 'Donald Ducked' and should be replaced.
I agree Pete as kev’s has displayed the exact symptoms as mine did when the TPS went bad last year. The bottom line for me came down to, if the ECU throws a P0155 code then the sensor is bad. The issue with Kevs situation it his dealer is simply unable to fix the obvious.
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Hi all,
Latest report on the demand sensor - Cali 1400.
I called Harpers yesterday and spoke with Curtis. He was helpful but said that he was unaware of the issue and had never sold a single one of the TGPS (B044414). He also said that he would check with his supplier on the issue. I just spoke with Curtis and he said his supplier told him that there was a problem with the part years ago but they were only put in Aprilias. (I will save my comments on that for a later post).
Curtis also said that if there are problems now, he was informed that they arise from the connectors and advised me to clean them, be sure they are on straight and put out the word to fellow Guzzists. I hope that is the case, it could be. After all the problem is intermittent.
Thank you Curtis for your legwork and recommendation.
There you have it. I will take the tank off in the next couple of days, clean all contacts and report if I experience the "dread red triangle" anon.
Be well,
DougG
Doug. My offer made to Kevin is equally open to you. I have a working, take off, From a TV4. It's the same part.
If you would like I am more than happy to send it to you, on my dime, and if it cures the problem we can work out how to move on from there.
I have no dog in this fight. I just want your problem sorted?
Pete
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Pete made me the same offer last year when my TPS went bad. Thanks again Pete for your kindness to help the guys here. 👍
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As stated previously there was a recall on a run of V4's that had dodgy demand sensors. That is probably what is being referred to. This does NOT mean that because there hasn't been a recall by the Guzzi arm of Piaggio the component is infallible and judging from recent posts here it would seem that the Cali 14's at least are having a problem with another bad run, or perhaps they are just repurposing the bad V4 ones? Who knows.
Not every V4 in the recall range had a dodgy sensor but a recall was performed. Why Guzzi can't get the parent company to do the same thing I have no idea.
The thing is with Kevin's bike the shop has already done all the disconnecting and cleaning business. They have also got repeated P0155 error codes which, as has been explained relates to the track voltages in the demand sensor going out of range triggering a service or urgent service warning. Taking it apart, again, will achieve nothing. The part is 'Donald Ducked' and should be replaced.
:grin: Stranger things have happened.. back in the day, at our GM plant there was a "material reclamation area." That's where the bad parts went.
Until they ran out of good parts, then the "bad" parts became "good" parts. :evil:
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When my bike was delivered, it had a dead battery, Miami dealer said it had been charged before shipping. Put it on tender and all has been well for 350 miles. Grandson turned the key on and battery went dead, back on tender and it took about 2 days to charge. Urgent service light came on after charge and key code kept appearing. Called service at Atlanta Guzzi and they thought maybe just a side effect of dead battery and they could clear and check at 1000 miles. Took her out Friday for a 150 mile loop, bike was excellent. Running the daytime Led lighting, I switched over to Nighlights about 40 miles from home, fuel low light came on about where I expected it to and I was close enough to home I decided to gon home and gas later. Leaving a red light, at about 4500 rpm, the bike started dying, let off throttle and it picked back up. Thought maybe the gas was lower and she was starving at throttle, pulled in and gassed up. Bike wouldn’t start. Battery tested 12.8 but went zero when I hit starter. I’m waiting for dealer to send a new battery, as I’m thinking that it is hopefully, just the battery. Since she ran fine as long as I was using the lower drain daylights. We will see. Try the simplest fix first.
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When it's running see what the volt meter on the bike says it's charging at and double check it with a hand meter. If it's below 14V or doesn't increase to 14+V when you blip the throttle it ain't charging and you need to find out why.
Check fuses first.
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When it's running see what the volt meter on the bike says it's charging at and double check it with a hand meter. If it's below 14V or doesn't increase to 14+V when you blip the throttle it ain't charging and you need to find out why.
Check fuses first.
It was charging at 14.3 while running, before the shutdown.
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OK, that's good.
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When I was first trying to start it after fueling, the speedo complex was doing a Star Wars effect like aliens were blocking the power. Lots of flashing, it gave a Canbus error once but I think it was just due to borderline voltage. I started thinking about Kevin’s thread, while I waited for my buddy to bring my trailer. Flashback to the Tourings H-pipe issues, where there was a production issue that covered a large percentage of the bikes made with the same issue. Hoping that the sitting for 3 years affected the battery and they just charged a bad old battery. Oh and it also zeroed out the odometer, but not the trip odo. It also reminded me of the F-16 when voltage issues, we called ‘queertrons’ would cause the same type of switch and sensor failures. Hi tech lmao. Thanks for your sharing of all the things stored in your head. I appreciate you.
Don
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Kevin...this may be a red herring, but do you have handlebar risers on your bike or any other modifications to the handlebars?
Be well,
DougG
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It sounds like this is an Aprilia problem and not a Guzzi problem because they've sold about 10 Aprilias to 1 Guzzi.
My math could be wrong.
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When my bike was delivered, it had a dead battery, Miami dealer said it had been charged before shipping. Put it on tender and all has been well for 350 miles. Grandson turned the key on and battery went dead, back on tender and it took about 2 days to charge. Urgent service light came on after charge and key code kept appearing. Called service at Atlanta Guzzi and they thought maybe just a side effect of dead battery and they could clear and check at 1000 miles. Took her out Friday for a 150 mile loop, bike was excellent. Running the daytime Led lighting, I switched over to Nighlights about 40 miles from home, fuel low light came on about where I expected it to and I was close enough to home I decided to gon home and gas later. Leaving a red light, at about 4500 rpm, the bike started dying, let off throttle and it picked back up. Thought maybe the gas was lower and she was starving at throttle, pulled in and gassed up. Bike wouldn’t start. Battery tested 12.8 but went zero when I hit starter. I’m waiting for dealer to send a new battery, as I’m thinking that it is hopefully, just the battery. Since she ran fine as long as I was using the lower drain daylights. We will see. Try the simplest fix first.
Tenders usually don't have what is needed to replenish a severely discharged battery. It might even say it in the user manual.
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Agreed. Took two days to get a green light on tender. Rode it for 2 hours, alt charging at 14.2+. Just took battery to an Interstate battery dealer. Tested bad with load. I am thinking that this one is a 3 year old battery that went south, waiting to find an owner. I’ll give the dealer a chance tomorrow to replace and ship, or to get Interstate to handle it. 125 bucks should be theirs to handle. Just hoping the TPS isn’t involved or affected by all of the queertrons that were flying around.
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Kevin...this may be a red herring, but do you have handlebar risers on your bike or any other modifications to the handlebars?
Be well,
DougG
No, it's bone stock. :thumb:
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Hi Kevin,
"No, it's bone stock."
Got it...was hopin' for a Hail Mary for ya.
DougG
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So Kevin? Have they fixed your Eldo yet?
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So Kevin? Have they fixed your Eldo yet?
UPDATE 08/14/2019
Hello Pete ! :grin:
Dealer called to say that they had been attempting to warranty "a defective TPS/Demand Sensor" and that the system would not process the warranty claim.
After several calls, and some amount of time with the Guzzi warranty people, it was discovered that this bike is part of the recent front brake recall, and that warranty claims cannot be filed until the recall is completed.
Assuming that the bike passes the recall check "procedure", then the demand sensor warranty claim may progress.
Kevin B
P.S. - This bike has had all of the electrical connectors removed, cleaned, and reassembled on two separate occasions.
I spoke with Curtis Harper this morning about a parts kit, and we got on this TPS sensor subject.
He mentioned that it may be a bad connection causing this problem. Harper's is always very helpful. I love that place.
Anyways, it appears that the dealer has tested and pronounced the TPS/Demand sensor as defective and is endeavoring to replace it.
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Good grief! How can they make everything so Byzantine in its complexity? I'm also astonished by the apparent need to replace all these master cylinders when all that is required is removal of the lever and adjustment of the operating plunger! And that only if there is an issue with the brakes. It's something I have advised on here on multiple occasions. Can it really be that Piaggio USA expect their 'Mechanics' to be so clueless as to not be able to adjust a simple plunger mechanism? It's bizarre and if that is the case more than a little bit frightening!
Pete
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Good grief! How can they make everything so Byzantine in its complexity? I'm also astonished by the apparent need to replace all these master cylinders when all that is required is removal of the lever and adjustment of the operating plunger! And that only if there is an issue with the brakes. It's something I have advised on here on multiple occasions. Can it really be that Piaggio USA expect their 'Mechanics' to be so clueless as to not be able to adjust a simple plunger mechanism? It's bizarre and if that is the case more than a little bit frightening!
Pete
Pete -
This entire experience has been the source of mild entertainment, and an education in the trials, tribulations, and complexities in the care and feeding of the Moto Guzzi motorcycle.
Kevin B
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Kevin, you certainly have a great attitude about it. It almost seems like it's been entertaining given that the repair station has been avoiding the most likely solution. Me? I'd be losing it. You do have a nice fleet of bikes and are taking it in stride.
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Pete -
This entire experience has been the source of mild entertainment, and an education in the trials, tribulations, and complexities in the care and feeding of the Moto Guzzi motorcycle.
Kevin B
You have the patience of Job. I would be an incredulous, frothing at the mouth nutcase by now!
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Yep, what Pete said times 10, to the 10 power👍
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Hey Kevin; I have to thank you for the grace and perseverance displayed through this whole thing, very inspiring :thumb:
The part of the adventure when you forced the out of town trip,,, and made it back safely,,, was gold,,, some of the best rides, are the ones a little further out the limb :bow:
Not to make light, but there is a good side to this for me. :evil:
I once passed up a smoking deal on a beautiful black 2016 Eldorado w windshield and huge leather bags,,, kicked my ass ever since,,, when I read the hoops you and others are jumping through,,, the kicking has lessened in frequency and intensity, :laugh:
I've seen pictures of the bikes in your basement,,, :bow:,,, I may be wrong, but I get the impression that a flakey TPS isn't going to keep you from riding, not for too long anyways.
I know once the bike is sorted out and running strong,,, and you grab a handful of that 1400 torque,,, you'll be able to have a good chuckle at all the bs you went through, just to have that huge shit eating guzzi grin on your face,,, I know all about it,,, I do it all the time :laugh:
Wishing you many safe miles on it.
Kelly
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UPDATE 08/27/2019
It's been in at the dealer for three weeks now. (this time)
I visited there on Saturday and was given the cold shoulder. In fact, I've been getting a fair amount of that lately.
Having purchased three motorcycles there in the past 18 months, I would have expected a better reception.
This bike is involved in the front brake recall, and it failed the "test" - so a "recall kit" has been ordered. They tell me that the warranty claim for the demand sensor (TPS) cannot be processed until the "recall" has been completed.
That's all I know, for now.
Kevin B
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Kevin, have you considered calling Guzzi HQ regarding getting the parts in? Or are you enjoying the comedy as it plays out?
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Tragedy not comedy.
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I am headed up for a Tuesday appointment @ Atlanta Guzzi, to address the electrical gremlins.
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DRBone, have you had service work performed at the Atlanta Guzzi dealer before? I stopped their several months ago to look at their 2016 all black Eldorado.
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They did a service + last year before I took my Touring around the country. Had them check a few things that Dusty and Pete, had mentioned, and they seemed competent. Only game in town, but they are slammed. Trying to get the Eldo in is requiring getting in queue. Super nice folks as well.
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Just checking in.
Four weeks this time - so far. It's still in the shop.
Nothing new.
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Is the brake recall a 'don't drive' type issue? Otherwise, why was it even left at the dealership instead of at your place so you can ride it as you see fit. They clearly didn't have and still don't have the needed parts to correct the brake issue. You could be enjoying it.
Having other bikes to ride isn't the point. The dealer doesn't have what they need to correct the brake adjust issue so why is it their? If your choice, no problem. If it's their choice, big problems at the dealer/Piaggio level.
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The brake issue is something that either is or isn't. It's not going to suddenly occur because the two parts that cause the problem aren't going to change size. If this whole ridiculous delay is because of the master cylinder issue and they are too gormless to work it out why don't they just say it needs one and fit it?
Recall claim. Bam! Dealt with. Now slap in a warranty claim on the demand sensor. Bam! Should of been fixed in a week.
Ludicrous!
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Pete,
You’re of course correct. Too bad either those running Piaggio or the dealer service areas can’t seem to get their collective heads out of the dark place. If you or someone even remotely close to your Moto Guzzi abilities were within a few hundred miles of me, I’d have no qualms about getting a new Moto Guzzi. Sadly, that just isn’t the case near Chattanooga, TN.
When I lived near Chicago, IL I had Jim Barron at Rose Farm Classics nearby which is why I bought a new 2009 Griso. I trusted Jim completely to work on all the Guzzis I had.
It seems Moto Guzzi in the US has had the same noose around their neck for decades. A very small group of excellent dealers in a sea of not such a talented collective. The bikes and the brand certainly deserve better.
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I can understand why Kev would choose to just leave the bike at the dealership instead of keeping it home and enjoying it. For me it would be impossible to enjoy a motorcycle that is constantly going into limp mode due to the URGENT SERVICE bs that has plagued this bike since new! Leaving it st the dealership supports the cause for a law suit using the lemon law to get a full purchase price. If this is not a case for this action, then there has never been one!
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I'd be 'Lemoning' it if I was given this bullshit run-around!
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The bike likely just needs a brake adjustment and a new Demand Sensor as was diagnosed early on. Too bad you can’t Lemon Law the dealer instead of the bike which in all likelihood has known issues that are (should be) easily corrected.
I’ve been a manufacturers rep for many years. Issues like this are routinely fully addressed with a quick email, text or phone call. There’s simply no excuse for what’s been going on here.
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Well, I had the P0155 fault code for a year intermittently and it got worse over time. I bought a NOS demand sensor off eBay, installed it and had no problems for 2 months. This morning the dreaded "URGENT SERVICE" came on! after work I plugged it in and read P0155!
Crap! I'll try cleaning the cables and see what happens. This is the ONLY problem I've had with my Eldo1400, glad I can do this work myself but am getting tired of this.
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Sad deal. All on display here with the biggest Guzzi community.
Is this the reputation that Guzzi wants with its most loyal audience? And in the end, they're still going to have to fix it since it's under warranty. So all this foot dragging isn't going to save them a dime but will drive away potential customers and disappoint the current customer. All to be in denial of documented failures? Man, I don't get it.
It doesn't say much about the dealer either.
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UPDATE
Six weeks in the shop, this time.
Stopped by there on Thursday, couldn't get past the front desk. Had to ask twice to have the gate keeper go back into the shop to get the status.
He said that there was a master cylinder on order and that would solve all of my problems - and so I very politely explained why the bike was there and his eyes just sorta glazed over. Not a technical fellow, I suppose.
I asked him to have the owner call me to discuss - or I could call a lawyer. Or both. Late next day I get a voicemail that basically says sorry, it's not our fault. The day after that, I get another voicemail that says that the master cylinder had arrived the day before and that they would be installing it and then proceeding with the other part".
The Missouri lemon law reads:
"If the manufacturer or dealer attempt to repair the same defect four times or if the vehicle is out of service for a total of thirty days during the year, the law presumes that a reasonable number of attempts have been made"
We're getting close here. One way or another.
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As per my pm, you know where the trouble lies.
ZZ
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As per my pm, you know where the trouble lies.
ZZ
Yes Sir.
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Do you trust these mouth breathers to not screw something else up? While it's not the bike's fault you've been without it forever I'd be screaming 🍋 !!!
Pete
UPDATE
Six weeks in the shop, this time.
Stopped by there on Thursday, couldn't get past the front desk. Had to ask twice to have the gate keeper go back into the shop to get the status.
He said that there was a master cylinder on order and that would solve all of my problems - and so I very politely explained why the bike was there and his eyes just sorta glazed over. Not a technical fellow, I suppose.
I asked him to have the owner call me to discuss - or I could call a lawyer. Or both. Late next day I get a voicemail that basically says sorry, it's not our fault. The day after that, I get another voicemail that says that the master cylinder had arrived the day before and that they would be installing it and then proceeding with the other part".
The Missouri lemon law reads:
"If the manufacturer or dealer attempt to repair the same defect four times or if the vehicle is out of service for a total of thirty days during the year, the law presumes that a reasonable number of attempts have been made"
We're getting close here. One way or another.
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Do you trust these mouth breathers to not screw something else up? While it's not the bike's fault you've been without it forever I'd be screaming 🍋 !!!
Pete
Point taken. This would have been much easier if it had not been a brand new bike - warranty and all. Simply following the instructions on page one of this thread would have had me back on the road and riding.
:thumb:
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Man, get rid of that POS with the lemon law and never darken their doors again. This kind of stuff.. oh never mind. <grumbling and shuffling off>
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OK, this gets me a "pass" when I have to ride my Kawasaki to the next rally, right ?
:boozing:
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OK, this gets me a "pass" when I have to ride my Kawasaki to the next rally, right ?
:boozing:
Sure, ride that Kawasaki over to the MoKan rally this weekend.
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OK, this gets me a "pass" when I have to ride my Kawasaki to the next rally, right ?
:boozing:
Sure, ride that Kawasaki over to the MoKan rally this weekend.
OK, thanks.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48754099833_6c4ab9195c_z.jpg)
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My 16 Eldorado rode great today, but is going into the shop on the 24th. The dealer in Atl has ordered a brake kit just in case, so that they can do the recall AND try to figure out the electrical issue all at once when I take it in. The red triangle is always there, but it’s a 0609 for a key issue that they’ll have to fix on PADS they said. As for the odometer resetting to 0 when shut off, the statement from the Guzzi Mech Rep was, “Wow, I’ve never heard that one “. So I am interested to see what it is. Gremlins are annoying but she is a sweet girl with ‘issues’. I have ‘issues’ and I function reasonably well, so I’m hopeful 😎
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UPDATE
7+ WEEKS in the shop, this time.
Got a call late today that said that they installed "that throttle thing" and rode it 40 miles, "so it's all fixed".
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Geeeziz.....and you bought another one in the meantime?
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I took my Eldorado up for the appointment to try and fix the electric issues. The guys at the Atlanta dealership had preordered my brake recall parts, just in case, and they had the lift waiting on my bike, so that if there is a part delay (instrument cluster) they’ll know quickly. I was impressed (so far) at their attitude and effort.
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Geeeziz.....and you bought another one in the meantime?
Actually, I bought two. One is that Gray 2014 California Custom - and I picked up a Kawasaki for a project.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48762450566_9cfb3e3d63_b.jpg)
And you know that the other inmates were getting lonely
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48055536702_cb0962541d_b.jpg[img])[/img]
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UPDATE
7+ WEEKS in the shop, this time.
Got a call late today that said that they installed "that throttle thing"[\color] and rode it 40 miles, "so it's all fixed".
"That Throttle Thing". Jesus wept........
I wonder if they did the Handle and Throttle learning? I hope so or it's going to have more problems.
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I took my Eldorado up for the appointment to try and fix the electric issues. The guys at the Atlanta dealership had preordered my brake recall parts, just in case, and they had the lift waiting on my bike, so that if there is a part delay (instrument cluster) they’ll know quickly. I was impressed (so far) at their attitude and effort.
Drbone641,
Your Eldorado looked beautiful today at the Atlanta dealer. I was their this afternoon. The seat was off and a PADS unit was connected to it. All the tech said was it was in for a ‘routine service’. I asked twice, no sense to inquire further.
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Drbone641,
Your Eldorado looked beautiful today at the Atlanta dealer. I was their this afternoon. The seat was off and a PADS unit was connected to it. All the tech said was it was in for a ‘routine service’. I asked twice, no sense to inquire further.
I think that they aren't really sure about what happened. The battery problem did some weird stuff to the dash (for want of a better term). It was flickering at first and then it repeatedly dropped the odometer back to 0. It was like the bike had never been ridden, but they couldn't get rid of the warning or key code on the first visit. However, since the new battery is in, I have put about 350 trouble free miles on her. Brad (Guzzi Rep) said "I've never seen that before", so we are hoping it was a very bad battery :shocked: and that all they needed to do was get rid of the 0609 Immobilizer code that gives me the red triangle and Key code symbol. Getting the 1000 mile service done, the brake recall inspection, and then heading to the mountains for a bit. HOPEFULLY!!! I love this bikes demeanor and can't wait to put some great sweepers behind her. Thanks for the update.
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UPDATE
7+ WEEKS in the shop, this time.
Got a call late today that said that they installed "that throttle thing" and rode it 40 miles, "so it's all fixed".
Whaaa Man.. I do hope that when, or if you ever get that bike out of their hands, it never darkens their doorstep again!
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Picked up the bike and rode it 50 miles and then parked it
So far, so good
(https://i.ibb.co/6BzY12s/IMG-20190925-112451.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6BzY12s)
2014 ford sho 0 60 (http://www.statewideinventory.org/ford-0-60-times/)
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Not blowing my own trumpet but I said demand sensor on JUNE THE SEVENTH! It's now September 26. Nearly FOUR MONTHS!!!
The mind boggles!
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Not blowing my own trumpet but I said demand sensor on JUNE THE SEVENTH! It's now September 26. Nearly FOUR MONTHS!!!
The mind boggles!
There is absolutely NO substitute for experience.
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There is absolutely NO substitute for experience.
Well if you can't dazzle them with brilliance you can always baffle em with bull shit. :thumb:
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Not blowing my own trumpet but I said demand sensor on JUNE THE SEVENTH! It's now September 26. Nearly FOUR MONTHS!!!
The mind boggles!
I’m perplexed as to why people don’t at least check out your suggestions first, you’re not always gunna’ be right of course, but I know what I’d be doing... :thumb:
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I’m perplexed as to why people don’t at least check out your suggestions first, you’re not always gunna’ be right of course, but I know what I’d be doing... :thumb:
That would be great if you could convince the dealer that was doing this work - under warranty.
I brought my laptop and cables along to give him a hand, but he was having none of that.
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Oh well, now that it's fixed it's water under the bridge.
ZZ
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Oh well, now that it's fixed it's water under the bridge.
ZZ
John Henry - I am still testing that theory. :thumb:
So far, so good !
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John Henry - I am still testing that theory. :thumb:
So far, so good !
:grin:
BTW, it was a pleasure visiting with you in Kentucky. :boozing:
ZZ
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OK, here's the summary for my Brand-new (leftover 2016) Eldorado 1400 purchased 28 May 2019
June 07, 2019 - flashing red triangle and "URGENT SERVICE" message on instrument cluster and bike is in limp mode
June 08, 2019 - trailered bike to dealer and home. I tell them that it's the TPS sensor. They said that it's not "throwing a code". They replaced the oil sending unit (while I waited) and changed the oil and sent me on my way. Got home and let out one quart of oil from the overfilled crankcase and then rode all around and then the light and message came back again. Still riding bike and mostly able to clear the warning triangle by selective cycling of the ignition. The issue is semi-consistent.
June 26, 2019 - returned bike to dealer, as the error is consistent now. I ask them to replace the TPS sensor.
July 31, 2019 - They pulled, inspected, cleaned and re-connected all of the electrical connections. Twice. I asked them if they replaced the TPS sensor. "No". Get bike back from dealer and ride to the 800 mile round-trip Wisconsin rally. All is well until I get home and then the error is back.
Throughout all of this, there is some amount of discussion about the Moto Guzzi diagnostic software (PADS). I offer to bring my laptop and cables and they politely decline. I get that. Customers are typically NOT trained mechanics. It turns out they either had the wrong software or no software because when they did get the PADS correctly installed, then the bike was throwing the 0155 code (TPS sensor)
August 06, 2019 - Take bike back to dealer. They perform front brake recall and attempt to diagnose the existing error. I ask if they could PLEASE replace the TPS sensor.
September 25, 2019 - Pick up bike from dealer. They replaced the TPS (demand) sensor. Finally. Have ridden the bike every day since the 25th of September and it is behaving itself.
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OK, here's the summary, so far
Brand-new (leftover 2016) Eldorado 1400 purchased 28 May 2019
June 07, 2019 - flashing red triangle and "URGENT SERVICE" message on instrument cluster and bike is in limp mode
June 08, 2019 - trailered bike to dealer. They replaced the oil sending unit and sent me on my way. Got home - rode all around and then the light and message came back again. Still riding bike and mostly able to clear the warning triangle by selective cycling of the ignition. The issue is semi-consistent.
June 26, 2019 - returned bike to dealer, as the error is consistent now
July 31, 2019 - Get bike back from dealer and ride to Wisconsin rally. All is well until I get home and the error is back.
August 06, 2019 - Take bike back to dealer
September 25, 2019 - Pick up bike from dealer. They replaced the TPS (demand) sensor.
Rode it home and to work the next day and took it to the Kentucky rally and to work two days now. So far, so good.
Hey Kev. It may take you a while to trust her again, it did me when I went through the TPS issue with 1400 tourer. Time will heal;)
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Meh, it's Monday. Rode to work. 48 degrees to start.
Ridden for 12+ consecutive days. No issues
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All's well that ends well. What a ride, though............. ..
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Meh, it's Monday. Rode to work. 48 degrees to start.
Ridden for 12+ consecutive days. No issues
Wonderful, thank you for posting this.
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OK, here's the summary for my Brand-new (leftover 2016) Eldorado 1400 purchased 28 May 2019
June 07, 2019 - flashing red triangle and "URGENT SERVICE" message on instrument cluster and bike is in limp mode
June 08, 2019 - trailered bike to dealer and home. I tell them that it's the TPS sensor. They said that it's not "throwing a code". They replaced the oil sending unit (while I waited) and changed the oil and sent me on my way. Got home and let out one quart of oil from the overfilled crankcase and then rode all around and then the light and message came back again. Still riding bike and mostly able to clear the warning triangle by selective cycling of the ignition. The issue is semi-consistent.
June 26, 2019 - returned bike to dealer, as the error is consistent now. I ask them to replace the TPS sensor.
July 31, 2019 - They pulled, inspected, cleaned and re-connected all of the electrical connections. Twice. I asked them if they replaced the TPS sensor. "No". Get bike back from dealer and ride to the 800 mile round-trip Wisconsin rally. All is well until I get home and then the error is back.
Throughout all of this, there is some amount of discussion about the Moto Guzzi diagnostic software (PADS). I offer to bring my laptop and cables and they politely decline. I get that. Customers are typically NOT trained mechanics. It turns out they either had the wrong software or no software because when they did get the PADS correctly installed, then the bike was throwing the 0155 code (TPS sensor)
August 06, 2019 - Take bike back to dealer. They perform front brake recall and attempt to diagnose the existing error. I ask if they could PLEASE replace the TPS sensor.
September 25, 2019 - Pick up bike from dealer. They replaced the TPS (demand) sensor. Finally. Have ridden the bike every day since the 25th of September and it is behaving itself.
And some wonder why dealers get a bad rap around here. Geez, what a hassle. Just didn't want to believe that the customer might know more than the "tech" who reads the "codes".
:violent1:
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And some wonder why dealers get a bad rap around here. Geez, what a hassle. Just didn't want to believe that the customer might know more than the "tech" who reads the "codes".
:violent1:
I left out the part where I had to keep asking for missing fasteners, and (also) could they please replace the POS cross-threaded, found-in-the-bottom-of-the-tool-box fasteners that they substituted for the factory fasteners that they lost. EVERY TIME.
They DID give me a little bottle of touch-up paint to cover the paint chips, so that was nice [insert sarcasm emoji here] :angry: :angry: :angry:
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The "Tech" at my Guzzi dealer read the 'code' that I had a faulty rear ABS sensor. I told them that I think it is a bad electrical connection as the PO had installed cruise control wiring, and had moved things about concerning the wiring. They ordered a new sensor. I rechecked all the connections at home and found myself the rear ABS connection had become unplugged/loose. (maybe by me :undecided:)
With a good solid connection sprayed with Electrical cleaner the rear ABS was repaired.
BTW ... I had asked the "Tech" to first check for a bad electrical connection, but the Pads code indicated rear sensor and he ordered a new one! :sad: ... and so the old farmer was able to repair the ABS, and not purchase a new sensor.
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The "Tech" at my Guzzi dealer read the 'code' that I had a faulty rear ABS sensor. I told them that I think it is a bad electrical connection as the PO had installed cruise control wiring, and had moved things about concerning the wiring. They ordered a new sensor. I rechecked all the connections at home and found myself the rear ABS connection had become unplugged/loose. (maybe by me :undecided:)
With a good solid connection sprayed with Electrical cleaner the rear ABS was repaired.
BTW ... I had asked the "Tech" to first check for a bad electrical connection, but the Pads code indicated rear sensor and he ordered a new one! :sad: ... and so the old farmer was able to repair the ABS, and not purchase a new sensor.
I have a GMC pick up for doing truck stuff.
Check engine light lit up. First guy to read the error codes said, "O2 sensor. I can install new sensors". I got a second opinion. Yes, the O2 sensor was causing the fault, but it's because there was a leaky intake manifold gasket needing replaced that caused the fault. Replaced the intake gasket, left the senor alone, check engine light gone with the new intake gasket installed.
I guess it's all in how you interpret the fault. The first guy would've milked me dry fishing for the reason for the fault, after charging me for new O2 sensors!
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I left out the part where I had to keep asking for missing fasteners, and (also) could they please replace the POS cross-threaded, found-in-the-bottom-of-the-tool-box fasteners that they substituted for the factory fasteners that they lost. EVERY TIME.
They DID give me a little bottle of touch-up paint to cover the paint chips, so that was nice [insert sarcasm emoji here] :angry: :angry: :angry:
Hopefully you've sent these details, along with your entire repair scenario to Piaggio. It would be interesting to here their response.
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Hopefully you've sent these details, along with your entire repair scenario to Piaggio. It would be interesting to here their response.
Sure, I wouldn't be holding my breath.
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Sure, I wouldn't be holding my breath.
Yes, but they’re (Piaggio) accountable for their actions, or lack of them. Doing nothing ends up getting nothing in this case.
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3,687 miles on the Eldorado now. No issues. :thumb:
Got the Roadliner and the Eldorado all cleaned up and winterized and backed into the corner of the basement man cave.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49009710846_c54f419521_b.jpg)
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This has been one of the most painful posts I've ever read . 42 years in the trade (m.c mechanic) and reading about such a litany
of mechanical incompetencies is damn near depressing ! :embarrassed:, Peter
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I just noticed that you're throwing in the towel and selling it. So sorry.
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I just noticed that you're throwing in the towel and selling it. So sorry.
We've recently sold four motorbikes - and are now down to six.
Be on the lookout for a nice Yamaha Roadliner that'll be up for sale soon - and (probably) one more.
:thumb:
We are also down to one truck and one car.
Getting ready to retire.
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We've recently sold four motorbikes - and are now down to six.
Be on the lookout for a nice Yamaha Roadliner that'll be up for sale soon - and (probably) one more.
:thumb:
I always liked those Roadliners.
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I always liked those Roadliners.
How about a blue one ?
:bike-037:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4546/37709567104_e11e9acb7c_b.jpg)
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That's right purdy, there!
Larry
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Kev, so what's your plan for an endgame?
That is what will the fleet look like then? Just curious?!?
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The motor in that bike is really nice. They did a very good job with it.
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Kev, so what's your plan for an endgame?
That is what will the fleet look like then? Just curious?!?
hahahahaaa nobody knows, not even me.
The Wife says that the Heritage Softail STAYS. Her favorite, I think. Big saddlebags. Hauls a lot of "stuff".
We have a Yamaha VStar1300 that's a real workhorse and very comfortable. A Kawasaki Versys 1000LT. That Z900RS Cafe.....and....'
:grin: :grin: :grin:
I'll still be purchasing project bikes for fixin' and resale - but we are slimming down on core riding inventory.
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I get it.
I don't have nearly the uh challenges you do, but I struggle to keep the fleet where I want it.
We're really close now and maybe it's perfect and I should leave it alone.
But then I think I still with like a Triumph twin.
And then I think, wow that V9 BS really spoke to me.
And then I think, those new Softails look like fun.
I was talking to someone about the BS the other day and thought, for a moment, I don't have lot of time for distance riding these days. If I sold the RK I could buy a BS and have cash left over.
But then I wonder how long it would be before I'd want another FLH or a new Softail... And besides there's literally nothing wrong with any of our bikes.
So imma just gonna be happy with what I got for a bit.
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The only reason I don't have more bikes in the garage is due to financial restraints.
kk
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We have a small house, and a walk-out basement. 30 years ago, I rented a concrete saw and installed a 44" door because that 36" door just wasn't gonna make it.
It's an occasional challenge to get one out. :grin: :grin: :grin: - but they're living in climate-controlled comfort..... with the evil ones exiled to the garage.
:thumb:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48055536702_cb0962541d_b.jpg)
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I've got 4 bikes now. Probably 1 or 2 too many.
Anyone want a 1200 Suzuki Bandit? I'd like to keep the Greenie and the EV. The Greenie is redundant to my Duc and the EV might go if I got a touring bike, but the Suzuki can go now.
I'll throw in a trickle charger. :grin:
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UPDATE on the V7 Roamer
Battery checks good on two different "battery checkers" with load function. Hooked up the positive cable to the battery and the VOM between the negative cable and battery. All is well. No draw. Kicked the starter button and it fired right up. I still suspect this battery. We will see. It's making a monkey out of me !
I have had some bikes in the past that had similar problems. The rocket 3 forum was full of posts like yours. Solution to them was to put in heavier batt. I disconnected the power lead to the starter cleaned the cable & posts. then coated with the spray you use on batt terminals . Problem solved.
Another bike was on a Quota. & EV. The relay plugs were dirty and caused the problem I replaced with a upgrade relay ( Radio Shack) . no more problems.