Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ncdan on June 12, 2019, 01:13:00 PM
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Just a brief survey that could help all of us on the subject of tire wear.
At what point do you guys change out your tires? I normally do not let the center tread to get much less than 1/8” because in my experience the tire seems to wear more rapidly from that point, to slick and at that point also the tire may fail to shed water effectively. Your thoughts, advise and experiences and let’s try and not butt heads on this subject 😂
(https://i.ibb.co/pjZ793H/82509-CB6-D073-4-B39-AD63-D239-FF3-DF2-AE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pjZ793H)
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Seems about right :thumb:
Dusty
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Ask twowings!
(https://i.ibb.co/7pcHWg5/two-wing-s-tire.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7pcHWg5)
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Riding the Midwest always wears down the center first so I change when there gets to be a big flat spot and feel a little bump when rolling over in a turn, mostly on the rear but have had it on fronts to so I usually change both at the same time. My new bike came shod with new pilot 5’s. They look and feel nice so far. Changing before they get too worn down reduces the chance of a flat? I hate when that happens.
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Ask twowings!
(https://i.ibb.co/7pcHWg5/two-wing-s-tire.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7pcHWg5)
Oh my Lord! That looks weird as the other tread looks like it’s fairly deep still and wear to the tread just in the very center, like maybe been ran with a little too much air?
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I've seen cords more than once. :angel:
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Oh my Lord! That looks weird as the other tread looks like it’s fairly deep still and wire to the tread just in the very center, like maybe been ran with a little too much air?
Likely out of balance .
Dusty
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I've seen cords more than once. :angel:
I’m convinced that there is a point, at around 1/8” tread depth left, the tire wears much faster that up to that point. I must say I have never gotten all the way to the chords 🙏
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I have heard it said that 80% of the flat tires happen in the last 20% of tread. My own experience tells me that the last 20% of tread wears much faster than the first 80%. Every time I think I have more than enough tread for a trip I end up being wrong. That leads to me having to buy a tire when I'm on a trip and usually getting a tire I'd rather not have but is the only one available in the size needed. My take away is to always start a long trip with a brand new rear tire.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Trip/Walkabout-2011-to-California/i-KM63dPB/0/7244f061/M/IMG_0405-M.jpg)
Hayes KS, 100F, Sunday.
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I have heard it said that 80% of the flat tires happen in the last 20% of tread. My own experience tells me that the last 20% of tread wears much faster than the first 80%. Every time I think I have more than enough tread for a trip I end up being wrong. That leads to me having to buy a tire when I'm on a trip and usually getting a tire I'd rather not have but is the only one available in the size needed. My take away is to always start a long trip with a brand new rear tire.
My experience tells me that your percentage estimates are spot on.
The "start with a new tire" thing works unless the trip is longer than the life of a tire, then you've got to do some quick judgment calls on the road. On our last trip, I was starting to get a bit nervous in mid-Oklahoma on the way back to Virginia, but the tread was holding up fine on the last day, no cord showing .... until the tire went flat 7300 miles into the trip, 200 miles from home, and it wasn't repairable.
I just replaced my front Pilot Road/Trail 4 with 1/32" tread, which is where the "wear bars" are. That's about as low as I want to go ....
Lannis
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I have heard it said that 80% of the flat tires happen in the last 20% of tread. My own experience tells me that the last 20% of tread wears much faster than the first 80%. Every time I think I have more than enough tread for a trip I end up being wrong. That leads to me having to buy a tire when I'm on a trip and usually getting a tire I'd rather not have but is the only one available in the size needed. My take away is to always start a long trip with a brand new rear tire.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Trip/Walkabout-2011-to-California/i-KM63dPB/0/7244f061/M/IMG_0405-M.jpg)
Hayes KS, 100F, Sunday.
I think this assessment is spot on!
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I wore through my continentals on my K1600 GTL last year at 16000km exposing the chords. The Michelin’s I put on burnt out at another 12000 km and I replaced them last week passing through San Francisco with Bridgestone Battleax ST series. The Bridgstones are supposed to get the best mileage. Critical to keep pressure at 42 psi.
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I had the same thing happen - thought there HAD to easily be 1500 miles left in that tire, only to have it down beyond the wear bars half way through the trip. And on a Sunday too! No choice but to ride home and pray I'd make it. Pumped it up to the max, rode 50mph the whole way and positioned myself on the edge of the ruts so the contact patch wouldn't be on the center of the tire. I even sat on the edge of the saddle so the bike would lean going straight ahead. Seven hundred miles later (at home) the tire looked the same, as it had that morning. Kinda weird semis passing me up hills... ...but I made it!
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I had the same thing happen - thought there HAD to easily be 1500 miles left in that tire, only to have it down beyond the wear bars half way through the trip. And on a Sunday too! No choice but to ride home and pray I'd make it. Pumped it up to the max, rode 50mph the whole way and positioned myself on the edge of the ruts so the contact patch wouldn't be on the center of the tire. I even sat on the edge of the saddle so the bike would lean going straight ahead. Seven hundred miles later (at home) the tire looked the same, as it had that morning. Kinda weird semis passing me up hills... ...but I made it!
Makes one wonder if attempting to get that last thousand miles out of a tire is worth the aggravation of a flat, worry and danger in a rain storm. I’m changing mine tomorrow on the 1400, Shinko 180 series, heavy duty.
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Anytime a rider looks at their tires and asks or wonders if they need a new tire there’s a 90%+ chance they do. I typically replace mine just as they get to the wear bars. My last front tire went over 32K miles, (yes, 32K). I typically get 17K to 18K per rear tire.
I’ve run a rear tire up front and turned around for a few years now. It’s a 160/60 Dunlop Roadsmart II while the oem front tire is a 130/70 Dunlop E3 or E4.
Rear tire started out as a Dunlop E3, then the Dunlop E4 and now a Dunlop Winter Sport 3D Runflat car tire.
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Anytime a rider looks at their tires and asks or wonders if they need a new tire there’s a 90%+ chance they do. I typically replace mine just as they get to the wear bars. My last front tire went over 32K miles, (yes, 32K). I typically get 17K to 18K per rear tire.
I’ve run a rear tire up front and turned around for a few years now. It’s a 160/60 Dunlop Roadsmart II while the oem front tire is a 130/70 Dunlop E3 or E4.
Rear tire started out as a Dunlop E3, then the Dunlop E4 and now a Dunlop Winter Sport 3D Runflat car tire.
Correct answer! When you get to the wear bars it is time to change them. No sense second guessing the tire designer.
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Anytime a rider looks at their tires and asks or wonders if they need a new tire there’s a 90%+ chance they do. I typically replace mine just as they get to the wear bars. My last front tire went over 32K miles, (yes, 32K). I typically get 17K to 18K per rear tire.
I’ve run a rear tire up front and turned around for a few years now. It’s a 160/60 Dunlop Roadsmart II while the oem front tire is a 130/70 Dunlop E3 or E4.
Rear tire started out as a Dunlop E3, then the Dunlop E4 and now a Dunlop Winter Sport 3D Runflat car tire.
Hey Mark, you are still riding a non Guzzi?
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Ive not gotten to cords before. Normally the handling goes off before that point, or dryrot, or cupping crops up...
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It's when you get here that you start to think about it. If I was going somewhere I'd go ahead and change. Otherwise I'll keep going with local rides
(https://i.ibb.co/RHck6Dk/0612191827c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHck6Dk)
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It's when you get here that you start to think about it. If I was going somewhere I'd go ahead and change. Otherwise I'll keep going with local rides
(https://i.ibb.co/RHck6Dk/0612191827c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHck6Dk)
Yep, that’s about where mines at now. I was going to ride local a bit longer but I’m due an oil change and valve check and one never knows when he’ll get a wild hair and hit the road for an extended venture:)
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Hey Mark, you are still riding a non Guzzi?
Yes sir, I’m still on my Victory Cross Country Tour. I just turned over 65K miles on it so I think it’s finally broken in.
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I don't see air, so it isn't worn out yet.
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To the wear indicators...to the cord is just taking the piss, and asking for it.
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Ask twowings!
(https://i.ibb.co/7pcHWg5/two-wing-s-tire.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7pcHWg5)
List over a few degrees and keep rolling! That tire has a few hundred miles life left in it!
Back when I rode 20,000 per year, cords were a regular occurrence.
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Update:
I got new rubber today along with a full service including valve adjustment, only off .50 thousandth, on both exhaust sides. I went with the 180/65/17 on the rear and same as factory on the front. My speedometer is 3mph fast compared to the GPS. Can this be corrected by calibration using the on board computer system and if so what’s the procedure?
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Anytime a rider looks at their tires and asks or wonders if they need a new tire there’s a 90%+ chance they do. I typically replace mine just as they get to the wear bars. My last front tire went over 32K miles, (yes, 32K). I typically get 17K to 18K per rear tire.
I’ve run a rear tire up front and turned around for a few years now. It’s a 160/60 Dunlop Roadsmart II while the oem front tire is a 130/70 Dunlop E3 or E4.
Rear tire started out as a Dunlop E3, then the Dunlop E4 and now a Dunlop Winter Sport 3D Runflat car tire.
I do mine as a pair when the rear gets to the wear indicator :thumb:
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Ain't none of you thinking like Burt Munro yet.
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Ain't none of you thinking like Burt Munro yet.
Shave off the tread and go 200 mph?
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He had something better than tread, he had shoe polish.
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He had something better than tread, he had shoe polish.
Shoe polish? :huh:
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Time and money factors can delay the decision. I wish the makers would make it easier for us owners! Changing a tire can get expensive when the task involves a lot of time and effort to get the wheel off the bike and the proper tools/tech to use (so that rims are not damaged).
(https://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic007/Easy-Changing-Motorcycle-Tire_zpstk8gihmw.jpg)
Fixing a tire in the middle of a trip can get expensive. :shocked:
(https://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic007/third-wheel-motorcycle-409x500_zpsrdcnr3t4.jpg)
:grin: Having an extra set of hands can save a lot of time!
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Hi Dan,
A while back you mentioned going to Shinko tires 180/65/17 in the rear. Are these the new tire you just put on, or is that the one you wore out?
DougG
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Ok guys a follow up.
I replaced the factory OEM tires on the 1400 with Shinko 180 series.
They went on with absolutely no issues and took no weights to balance. I took it real easy the first few miles to wear off the factory mold lube stuff then put them through the paces. I immediately notices that the handling going into curves was “quicker and more precise “. Let me say that this could be because it’s a new tire as much as a different between the different size and being a bias and not a radial type tire. I did push them fairly aggressively but not a floorboard grinder and they felt very stable and predictable. These are not my first Shinko tires I ran them on a HD tourer, two up and luggage, many miles over the years and found them to be very dependable in every aspect. Not trying to represent any particular tire brand just an honest assessment. Also reporting that I think dropping the 200 series tire on the 1400 series bikes is acceptable if not actually a better option and they are much more economic in value. My entire cost to replace both tires including labor was less than 300 bucks. I didn’t feel shorted at all.
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Hi Dan,
Thanks for the update. What you described about the noticeable handling improvement echoes my own experience. I went from OEM Dunlop 200's to Dunlop 180 series. Another interesting, and notable advantage was this...I have a motorcycle dolly (Black Widow) to move my Cali 1400 around the garage. The long 'ramp' is 8" wide and the 200 series tires were 8 1/4' wide. The rear tire would ride on the side rails and not seat properly on the deck. I actually put a 2x8 on the deck to elevate the tire so it seated more comfortably. When I switched to the 180 series, the rear tire dropped solidly into the deck, I was able to remove the 2x8 and it worked just as well. The bottom of the tread sat solidly on the deck. Much more stable, especially when on the side stand.
Some folks have expressed concern that using a tire (180 series) commonly found on 5" rims put on the MG 6" rims would widen its footprint as much as the 200. This was obviously not the case with the Dunlops. I can't speak to other brands, but I can testify with 100% confidence that the 180 series Dunlops are definitely narrower than the 200 series on my Cali 1400.
Be well,
DougG
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Thanks Doug. So if you used the Dunlop 180 then you still have a radial tire, correct? I would love to ride a bias and radial back to back just to see and feel the difference, if any exists?
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Mark, what is the rationale for running a rear up front and backwards? I can supposition why one might run a rear up front, but backwards?
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Mark, what is the rationale for running a rear up front and backwards? I can supposition why one might run a rear up front, but backwards?
I was wondering the same thing but didn’t want to hear the answer 😂
Just funning, Mark is my buddy and I’m sure he has a perfectly rational explanation 👍👍
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Hi Dan,
Yup, they are radials. Please post if you actually experiment with radials/bias ply tires on the Cali 1400 and what you conclude.
Be well,
DougG
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Hi Dan,
Yup, they are radials. Please post if you actually experiment with radials/bias ply tires on the Cali 1400 and what you conclude.
Be well,
DougG
Doug, I was not talking about mixing them, I was referring to any noticeable difference in the two types. I think someone posted a response about mixing the two types on the same bike and best I remember they said they couldn’t feel any issues. Maybe someone will jump in on the subject.
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I am on my second bias ply rear (1400 Touring) 180/65, a Dunlop D407. Allowing for the fact that we change tyres when they are worn down (can affect how they handle) and start new tyres at their best, I couldn't really tell any difference between radial and bias, or between 200 and 180 widths. The only thing I notice with the D407 is that in the last 2k of its 15k (km) life, it needs a bit more effort to heel into corners. The bike handles sweetly solo, two up and loaded, in the mountains, sweepers etc. The 6" rim width is at the edge of what a 180 can be fitted to, and it does flatten the profile somewhat.
Stephen
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Mark, what is the rationale for running a rear up front and backwards? I can supposition why one might run a rear up front, but backwards?
The larger 160/60 up front increases the contact patch and is as big as you can fit under the fender. Turning in 'backwards' against the rotational arrow ensures the siping is properly angled to mimic a standard front tire. Therefore water egress matches the oem set up. I'm on my second rear tire up front. It's a Dunlop Roadsmart II MT. The MT stands for Multi Tread so it's the same as the Dunlop E4 MT I usually run in the back. My last Dunlop E4 rear tire had over 18K on it when it just reached the wear bars.
My first rear tire up front, at over 32K miles (yes, 32K miles) still wasn't to the wear bars. I replaced it a bit early as I have a longer trip coming up. The larger front tire also doesn't track rain grooves or ruts in the road as much as the oem 130/70. Plus it simply feels more planted in the corners. A 160/60 up front on a Victory Cross bike is a fairly common thing to do. No reason what so ever to go back to the oem 130/70 unless I'm caught somewhere and simply need a tire. Then any Honda dealer would work because the oem Victory Cross bike tires were the same size and type as the Gold Wing for many years.
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The larger 160/60 up front increases the contact patch and is as big as you can fit under the fender. Turning in 'backwards' against the rotational arrow ensures the siping is properly angled to mimic a standard front tire. Therefore water egress matches the oem set up. I'm on my second rear tire up front. It's a Dunlop Roadsmart II MT. The MT stands for Multi Tread so it's the same as the Dunlop E4 MT I usually run in the back. My last Dunlop E4 rear tire had over 18K on it when it just reached the wear bars.
My first rear tire up front, at over 32K miles (yes, 32K miles) still wasn't to the wear bars. I replaced it a bit early as I have a longer trip coming up. The larger front tire also doesn't track rain grooves or ruts in the road as much as the oem 130/70. Plus it simply feels more planted in the corners. A 160/60 up front on a Victory Cross bike is a fairly common thing to do. No reason what so ever to go back to the oem 130/70 unless I'm caught somewhere and simply need a tire. Then any Honda dealer would work because the oem Victory Cross bike tires were the same size and type as the Gold Wing for many years.
Makes sense and the mileage is great!
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That is stunning mileage, even more so knowing neither you or the bike are petite! :smiley: :smiley: I would think handling would be negatively affected
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Shoe polish? :huh:
This quoted from, https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/worlds-fastest-indian-movie-opens-nationwide/ (https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/worlds-fastest-indian-movie-opens-nationwide/)
Thirty years later, this film became a labor of love for both the director and his star (who say they never would have believed they'd work together after making The Bounty in the 1980s). The story is as much about the endearing, eccentric Munro and his ability to charm strangers into participating in his crazy quest as it is about making a collection of 40-year-old and homebuilt mechanical bits and age-cracked tires masked with shoe polish (which Munro actually did) go such an improbable speed.
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Thanks for explaining that antmanbee. Yeah, that was a good movie.
As for running a rear tire up front against the arrow, the main reason isn't due to siping and expelling water. Tires aren't made by injecting a bunch of rubber into a mold, cooking it and then popping it out. No - they lay up strips of fabric and bond it all together with rubber. There's a place where the cords overlap and that joint is the main reason for the direction it needs to be run. That joint is stronger in one direction than the other.
When a tire is built for the rear, the acceleration forces are the main stress the tire needs to stand up to.
On the front, the braking forces are the main stress - the opposite rotational direction from the rear.
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We had a nice Father's Day ride and I checked the rear tire when we returned.
Hmmmm - time for a change
(https://i.ibb.co/7KKtDkP/wear-bars.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7KKtDkP)
four dice (https://freeonlinedice.com/)
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We had a nice Father's Day ride and I checked the rear tire when we returned.
Hmmmm - time for a change
(https://i.ibb.co/7KKtDkP/wear-bars.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7KKtDkP)
four dice (https://freeonlinedice.com/)
You going back with the OEM?
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You going back with the OEM?
Dan -
That's a 190/60R-17 on a Yamaha Roadliner.
But - I did go back with the OEM size on that 1400 Cali
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I worked at a shop for a while, and a guy with an FJ came in for his free oil change. We recommended a new rear tire, which he rejected, accusing us of trying to make money on the oil change. Two weeks later, he called demanding that we pay to trailer his bike in because the rear was to the chords and we failed to catch it at the last service. We said no, be said he would take his business elsewhere, and we thanked him. I replace my tires when they start to square off, or when they get to be about 5 years old, whichever comes first. Old tires get hard, and lose grip in the wet. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and wet grip is a necessary thing. Having said that, I have only replaced old tires on bikes I have purchased used. Once in my hands, they wear out more quickly than they age.
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Dunno mate.
Ask the blokes who crashed...