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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gliderjohn on June 15, 2019, 08:05:13 PM
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The photo is a stock one. Today as I was leaving a flying event a H-D bike rode by me. It was the same version as you see in the stock photo, beautiful and totally stock looking except...it had shoulder high, narrow tubed apes. Why would one even consider doing that to this model?
(https://i.ibb.co/GFTbTSv/Screen-Shot-2019-06-15-at-8-00-36-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/GFTbTSv)
GliderJohn
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I cannot for the life of me understand the appeal of ape hangers. Im shallow when it comes to motorcycles and looks matter to me. But looks or comfort wise i can't get down with ape hangers on anything.
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Personally I struggle to understand why ape hangers even exist - to each their own though I suppose.
Glenn
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Heck , I couldn't even ride the Bassa with the bar setup that was on it , no idea why anyone would effectively disable a motorbike .
Dusty
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They are used by people who understand what it looks like in a full on panic stop when the leverage from the tall bars create beautiful custom effects that you just can't get any other way.
In other words, they fold over.
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Heck , I couldn't even ride the Bassa with the bar setup that was on it , no idea why anyone would effectively disable a motorbike .
Dusty
Maybe that’s a bit of it? I found the stock setup on a Bassa very comfortable.
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Maybe that’s a bit of it? I found the stock setup on a Bassa very comfortable.
This one wasn't stock , 8" billet bar risers that came back about an inch , with almost beach bars . Hands were up around my ears .
Dusty
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No words...
(https://i.ibb.co/28fdf1X/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/28fdf1X)
(https://i.ibb.co/P5dVbBc/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P5dVbBc)
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What —- no streamers ?😢
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I like the ape hangers I installed on LeMans, I get a good bug collection every time I ride in a wife beater t shirt and it looks really tough with my tatoos.
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John, what if you get a stink bug in your arm pits? That's like a double whammy. :evil:
John Henry
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Come to think of it, I don't even know when and why ape-hangers started.
I don't think anyone would argue that they're more functional, or that they improve one's ability to control the motorcycle.
I've seen people riding on the highway at 85 miles an hour with them, but it HAS to be harder and more uncomfortable than riding with stock or lower bars.
The only remaining reason, then, is that people think that it LOOKS tough somehow, or makes someone LOOK LIKE they are some motorcycle gang criminal, on their days off from being an auditor for PriceWaterhouse.
I'll admit that clip-ons make someone look committed (even if they're not) because there's some possible performance-enhancement behind it. But has anyone here (or anyone you know) ever thought that shoulder-high or higher apehangers look anything but stupid (hence the term "ape")?
We may never figure it out.
Lannis
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I’m sorry for my strong opinion on this issue but I think it is a pathetic thing to do to any type of motorcycle and makes the rider look like a monkey humping a football !!!
(https://i.ibb.co/0cD0F9q/973380-BA-097-E-4-B3-E-A167-586-C29142497.png) (https://ibb.co/0cD0F9q)
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John, what if you get a stink bug in your arm pits? That's like a double whammy. :evil:
John Henry
:thumb: Saves on deodorant (Guzzi Content)
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I’m sorry for my strong opinion on this issue but I think it is a pathetic thing to do to any type of motorcycle and makes the rider look like a monkey humping a football !!!
(https://i.ibb.co/0cD0F9q/973380-BA-097-E-4-B3-E-A167-586-C29142497.png) (https://ibb.co/0cD0F9q)
OK , there is no way that is comfortable :shocked: :laugh: I kinda like the traditional chopper ethos , but putting those bars and extreme forward controls on a stock HD does not a chopper make . My old panhead chopper riding buddy Darrel "Hollywood" Hiatt would disapprove of such nonsense :laugh:
Dusty
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Search "Easy Rider" using any method you want to see why apes are cool. Hard to really argue that Peter Fonda riding that chopper with the wind in his hair, wearing those uber-cool Ray Bans is NOT the epitome of 60's cool. Granted, the chopper geometry adds to the coolness, and HIS apes are shorter in height than many you see on the road now, but today's versions are just trying to cash in on that look.
Can't argue that they're not a crash or sudden-death waiting to happen, but I have always thought they were cool-looking.
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Search "Easy Rider" using any method you want to see why apes are cool. Hard to really argue that Peter Fonda riding that chopper with the wind in his hair, wearing those uber-cool Ray Bans is NOT the epitome of 60's cool. Granted, the chopper geometry adds to the coolness, and HIS apes are shorter in height than many you see on the road now, but today's versions are just trying to cash in on that look.
Can't argue that they're not a crash or sudden-death waiting to happen, but I have always thought they were cool-looking.
I think the Billy bike was a nicer ride!
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The Billy Bike was a better bike, and he lived longer. Well, about two minutes longer anyway.
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My theory on ape hangers is that at base it is a subconscious animal display behavior. Think birds of paradise mating dance, the advantage a large buck has showing off his large rack, or the mass of a dominant silver back gorilla. Large size or audacious display portrays power or demands 'look at me'. Loud pipes go right along with it.
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My theory on ape hangers is that at base it is a subconscious animal display behavior. Think birds of paradise mating dance, the advantage a large buck has showing off his large rack, or the mass of a dominant silver back gorilla. Large size or audacious display portrays power or demands 'look at me'. Loud pipes go right along with it.
Hmmmm, what does that make the rider of a quiet bike that looks for secluded places?? :laugh:
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Hmmmm, what does that make the rider of a quiet bike that looks for secluded places?? :laugh:
Secure in their personhood ?
Dusty
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(https://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic008/cool%20monkey_zpsebz05yvy.jpg)
Dont even think about it!!
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Only a silly ape would do that!
(https://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic008/riding-monkey-on-a-motorcycle-_zpsbtd0xggo.jpg)
Not me! I'm a chimp.
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I’m sorry for my strong opinion on this issue but I think it is a pathetic thing to do to any type of motorcycle and makes the rider look like a monkey humping a football !!!
(https://i.ibb.co/0cD0F9q/973380-BA-097-E-4-B3-E-A167-586-C29142497.png) (https://ibb.co/0cD0F9q)
Deb and I were going to a National in Sylvan Grove, KS. we were on a deserted two lane state hiway, keeping our speed in check so we wouldn't have to talk to a grouchy state patrol when that guy blew by us, arms way in the air. It still sticks in my mind, how fast he could go with no control. impressive is one term
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Secure in their personhood ?
Dusty
I'll take that.
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Back in the day I rode a friends HD with those tall, for me, ape hangers. When he asked how I liked it, I think I said something like "well it sure keeps your arm pits cool". Crazy way to ride, but there you go.
Here's my favorite pic on this...
(https://i.ibb.co/F7TBb21/merica-tractor-bike.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F7TBb21)
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Back in the 60s' the tall bars, (later named ape hangers) were sort of a fad. A protest to the world.
I once shared a parking space at a motel 6 with a guy on a Pan with some of the tallest I'd ever seen, well over the shoulders.
When we were packing to go in the am I had chance to ask him about his ride and...why the tall bars??!!
He was about my age and told me that as far as he was concerned THAT is the way a motorcycle should look.
How many of us say the same thing about sport bike ass in the air(etc.) and clip-ons? Its got to look a certain way to appeal. Regardless of what I could say (didn't' even try) It wouldn't have changed his mind.
When I quizzed him about the where he was headed and he gave me some destination about 600 miles distant and when I asked him how far he thought would get on that day and he proudly announced "at least 200 miles" 'cause this hands kept falling to sleep and getting numb requiring a break..
Hey to each his own, I didn't have the words but to say good luck!
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Peter Fonda is everywhere, I passed him today while out on the 750, he did not wave back, alas I had no apes.
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In Chicago in the early 60's when I was a young teen I remember a group of guys in our neighborhood put car steering wheels on their bikes. Whether it was a Chicago thing or just a group in my area I do not know but I have clear memories of seeing those guys sans handlebars replace by automobile steering wheels. Years later after I started riding I ofter wondered how they counter steered those bikes.
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Ape hangers as we know them got started in World War I. Seems that sending messages via a "Dispatch Rider" was more reliable and more secure than using other methods. However, seems some of the enemy sympathizers or outright enemy combatants wanted to peek at what these folks were carrying. For the riders, speed was their only real security, so they rode as rapidly as possible. However, they tended to ride along the same route... carrying messages... one something of a schedule. So those who wanted to intercept them started using a simple device... a piece of wire strung across the road... about neck high for a man on a motorcycle. It worked quite well in regards to making him stop and share the contents of his message case. Well, the rider never seemed to complain much anyways... likely due to that whole head/body separation thing.
Once word got around to what was happening, some ingenious individual decided that the easy way to solve this was to extend the handlebars to go up above the riders' head. This way the wire was either snapped by the bars with no injury to the rider, or simply pushed up out of the way and the rider continued on, again, unbothered.
After the wars end, a lot of dispatch riders came home to the US and started working on bikes. Having become comfortable with higher bars, and liking the distinction they provided, they replicated those battlefield modifications. And the rest... is history.
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Ape hangers as we know them got started in World War I. Seems that sending messages via a "Dispatch Rider" was more reliable and more secure than using other methods. However, seems some of the enemy sympathizers or outright enemy combatants wanted to peek at what these folks were carrying. For the riders, speed was their only real security, so they rode as rapidly as possible. However, they tended to ride along the same route... carrying messages... one something of a schedule. So those who wanted to intercept them started using a simple device... a piece of wire strung across the road... about neck high for a man on a motorcycle. It worked quite well in regards to making him stop and share the contents of his message case. Well, the rider never seemed to complain much anyways... likely due to that whole head/body separation thing.
Once word got around to what was happening, some ingenious individual decided that the easy way to solve this was to extend the handlebars to go up above the riders' head. This way the wire was either snapped by the bars with no injury to the rider, or simply pushed up out of the way and the rider continued on, again, unbothered.
After the wars end, a lot of dispatch riders came home to the US and started working on bikes. Having become comfortable with higher bars, and liking the distinction they provided, they replicated those battlefield modifications. And the rest... is history.
Good story Captain Trivia! :thumb: That's a new one on me!
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:thumb: Saves on deodorant (Guzzi Content)
Pits in the wind!
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Good story Captain Trivia! :thumb: That's a new one on me!
Yes, I am a bit of a collector of useless trivia... one of my character flaws I guess.
The idea still had merit in WWII when Jeeps were used. Fortunately, these were well documented and photographed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_cutter_(jeep) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_cutter_(jeep))
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Ape hangers as we know them got started in World War I. .....
Well, whether this is a "folk etymology" or just a tall tale, I don't think that the people you see riding with apes today got the idea from WWI dispatch riders. There was a time you NEVER saw out-of-control apehangers, and I don't think that the ape-hanger boys are suddenly now trying to emulate bikes from 100 years ago because it makes them look cool, or makes them look like they are prepared for wires strung across Main Street.
Take another moto-aberration - cars jacked up in the rear. It's pretty obvious to everyone that the guys that did that were trying to emulate drag racers, and make their car look tough and fast like a dragster. Or modern youngsters that take beat up hatchbacks and try to make them look like rally cars.
Maybe it's like one of those school-of-fish or flock-of-birds things .... one well-admired tough biker dude started doing it, and then some other people did it, and then a bunch more, and then suddenly it was "The Thing" to do .... ?
Lannis
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Oh Lannis, I didn't mean to insinuate that modern ape-hangers had anything at all to do with the battlefield expedient dispatch-rider anti-decapitation devices...
The point is, that is why tall bars were first created and used. As for it being a folk tale... umm, well, then, the fine folks at the Harley Museum are guilty of perpetuating it. Or rather, that is where I first heard about it, and it just makes sense when you consider how things were done back then. Since neither of us was around back then, we kinda have to rely on the history as recorded by others and recounted to us.
As for how the higher bars of yesteryear turned into the wacky mile-high armpit coolers you see now... well I have an explanation. It's a simple case of one-up-man-ship. Joe the dispatch rider comes home, buys a bike, and puts high bars on it because he was used to riding with them. Other people see it, copy the idea, and start going higher... those get seen, copied, and go higher still... Like you said, a century later, I doubt any of them know why they're even a thing... but they keep it going anyways.
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The current use of ape hangers relies little on the logic of that historical reference from WWI. I recall seeing a recent study done on the current use of ape hangers, where statisticians discovered that the higher the handlebars were, the lower the IQ of the rider.
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It’s a lifestyle thing isn’t it ?
How many guys with clip ons really need them, or knee scrapers, or touring screens, or carbon fibre, or...or....
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Today as I was leaving a flying event a H-D bike rode by me. It was the same version as you see in the stock photo, beautiful and totally stock looking except...it had shoulder high, narrow tubed apes. Why would one even consider doing that to this model?
(https://i.ibb.co/GFTbTSv/Screen-Shot-2019-06-15-at-8-00-36-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/GFTbTSv)
GliderJohn
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but the bike in the photo is not a stock Harley Davidson. It's a heavily modified Sportster-based tracker that someone has slung Metric Shite-Tonnes of money at.
I don't know what you saw, but it wasn't the above bike with apes.
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This is why:
(https://bikehistory.org/bikes/stingray/images/2019-schwinn-stingray-red.jpg)
What they really want is a Stingray bicycle...
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From Rocker59.
I don't know what you saw, but it wasn't the above bike with apes.
Then someone went to a lot of effort and expense to look just like what I pictured. It was not any run of the mill Sportster.
GliderJohn
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When I started riding in the early 70's, ape hanger bars which had been popular in the 60's were already falling out of favor. Some states back then, CT was one, passed legislation limiting the height of the bars to 18" above the seat. Not that anyone complied, but CT has the law on the books. I have never understood why they came back...
Larry
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Then someone went to a lot of effort and expense to look just like what I pictured. It was not any run of the mill Sportster.
GliderJohn
Was it one of these?
(https://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my19/sportster/roadster/overview/dom/19-sportster-roadster-hero.jpg)
Or, one of these?
(https://www.bennetts.co.uk/-/media/import/6344_images/666_xr1200_03.ashx?la=en&hash=7BAB9DB47A7F6078BCE652B5A36B7806AAA27B5F)
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The exhaust was higher and darker, like the picture I posted.
GliderJohn
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They are used by people who understand what it looks like in a full on panic stop when the leverage from the tall bars create beautiful custom effects that you just can't get any other way.
In other words, they fold over.
I've got an old acquaintance from the XLforum who had ridiculous apes for years and rode the snot out of his bike all over north America.
That is till he was getting in the highway somewhere in New England one morning. He'd just merged with traffic at speed when the risers finally failed under the leverage and he found himself doing about 65 mph with handlebars in his hands that were no longer attached to the triple trees!
He somehow managed to grab the trees with his left hand while braking with his right hand and foot and pulled over to the shoulder.
That was his last day with apes.
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That would be bit to much excitement in a morning! :shocked:
GliderJohn
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It’s a lifestyle thing isn’t it ?
How many guys with clip ons really need them, or knee scrapers, or touring screens, or carbon fibre, or...or....
Yebbut, you can argue (and I will) that clip-ons, knee scrapers, touring screens, carbon fibre accessories, frame sliders, etc actually IMPROVE the performance of the bike, or the safety, or the comfort, even if the rider never scrapes a knee or goes 120 MPH.
Apes do nothing but LOWER performance, and though you can't measure comfort and safety, they certainly go in the wrong direction.
I could understand it if they LOOKED good, but they look stupid. That's the hard part to figure out ....
Lannis
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Ape hangers as we know them got started in World War I.
After the wars end, a lot of dispatch riders came home to the US and started working on bikes. Having become comfortable with higher bars, and liking the distinction they provided, they replicated those battlefield modifications. And the rest... is history.
Doubtful.
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Ape hangers as we know them got started in World War I. Seems that sending messages via a "Dispatch Rider" was more reliable and more secure than using other methods. However, seems some of the enemy sympathizers or outright enemy combatants wanted to peek at what these folks were carrying. For the riders, speed was their only real security, so they rode as rapidly as possible. However, they tended to ride along the same route... carrying messages... one something of a schedule. So those who wanted to intercept them started using a simple device... a piece of wire strung across the road... about neck high for a man on a motorcycle. It worked quite well in regards to making him stop and share the contents of his message case. Well, the rider never seemed to complain much anyways... likely due to that whole head/body separation thing.
Once word got around to what was happening, some ingenious individual decided that the easy way to solve this was to extend the handlebars to go up above the riders' head. This way the wire was either snapped by the bars with no injury to the rider, or simply pushed up out of the way and the rider continued on, again, unbothered.
After the wars end, a lot of dispatch riders came home to the US and started working on bikes. Having become comfortable with higher bars, and liking the distinction they provided, they replicated those battlefield modifications. And the rest... is history.
Rick,
Have you got a link to this info? I've never in my life heard this etymology for "apes". Not to say those WWI GIs didn't do something to their bikes to deal with "clotheslining", but show me some photographic evidence or print media reference to the GIs doing this, or of "ape hangers" existing before about 1965. As much motorcycle reading as I've done over the past 40-years, I've never seen or heard of "apes" existing before the 1960s.
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Looked at well over 100 photos of WWI dispatch bikes. Not one showing anything close to apes or any other way of dealing with wire for that matter.
GliderJohn
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Also, forward controls on motorcycles were developed in WW1 by the military to detect mines. The riders would tap the ground in front of the bike to detect exposed detonators. Riding barefoot for increased sensitivity, of course.
Tassles hanging from the hand grips were used to tie up prisoners, of course.
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You want abomination? I got a truckload right here:
(https://i.ibb.co/9qvVQQz/Copy-of-apesport.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9qvVQQz)
(https://i.ibb.co/nPc1khg/Copy-of-apesport1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nPc1khg)
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In a way this makes some sense...…… but none for me thanks...
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Also, forward controls on motorcycles were developed in WW1 by the military to detect mines. The riders would tap the ground in front of the bike to detect exposed detonators. Riding barefoot for increased sensitivity, of course.
Tassles hanging from the hand grips were used to tie up prisoners, of course.
:laugh: :thumb:
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(https://i.ibb.co/XYXJP6S/monkey-bars.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XYXJP6S)
pic hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
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(https://i.ibb.co/pPb7FHJ/monkey-bars3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pPb7FHJ)
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Okay Okay I give. I had 'em back in '64
(https://i.ibb.co/wpXnF1R/20180621-182809.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wpXnF1R)
:evil:
Paul B :boozing:
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Of course, my memory is about as long as.. oh, never mind.. but the first time I remember seeing apes was in the 60s..
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I like the ape hangers I installed on LeMans, I get a good bug collection every time I ride in a wife beater t shirt and it looks really tough with my tatoos.
Ok John, a picture is required for this one:)
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Peter Fonda didn't like riding that chopper at all. He found it extremely uncomfortable and could only stand riding it as long as it took to shoot that take.
Yeah, the Billy bike was much cooler, though Fonda's was the iconic one.
With the Barcalounger riding position there probably isn't any other solution than ape hangers.
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Bars in the ape hanger class was a fad like the ridiculously wide tire fad is today.
The wider the better, makes you look like...bad ass?
:-)
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This vid has all the "idiot" stuff on it. "Top 5 Worst Motorcycle Mods (cruisers)". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5PXLwgZJiA
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The despatch rider theory is cute. But has anyone seen a photo of a despatch rider with high bars? Nope. Never happened.
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Memory says that the WW2 origin of ape hangers was in fact written about some years back . Dunno .
Dusty