Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ohiorider on June 29, 2019, 10:40:41 PM
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I've owned and put some good miles on my 2008 1200 Sport. She has approx 68,000 miles showing on the odometer. Still runs nicely.
Unfortunately, this lovely old machine is a bit too top heavy for me as I get older. But apparently, CARC bikes don't make Guzzi owners want to spring for them.
Not sure what I'm going to do. I have a former Guzzi mechanic that has expressed some interest. I'm probably as bored about this potential transaction as he is.
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At least you got some good miles out of the bike!
It is a shame that ergonomics no longer suit you.
Is the market that soft for the old 8V CARC bikes that you feel like you'll have to give it away?
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Wouldn't bother me if I didn't need the money. Although I wouldn't give it away to just anybody. It's only stuff, can't take it with you in the end.
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Is the market that soft for the old 8V CARC bikes that you feel like you'll have to give it away?
In the USA, a 2008 1200 Sport is a 2 valve per cylinder bike.
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At least you got some good miles out of the bike!
It is a shame that ergonomics no longer suit you.
Is the market that soft for the old 8V CARC bikes that you feel like you'll have to give it away?
Strangely, with the exception of Griso's and big tank Stelvios, all the CARC bikes seem to be about as popular as rat sandwiches! I really can't work out why as they are certainly among the very best to ever leave Mandello.
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I think that all bikes go through a period of time where they are considered just old and dated and not worth much. Once they reach an age where they are considered vintage and collectible, their value goes up. I remember when you couldn't give an Ambassador away. They were old, and didn't have the power or appeal of an Eldorado. I bought a couple of decent ones cheap back in the day, and later sold them cheap. I'm amazed at the prices they get today.
Larry
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The used market on Guzzi is very soft. Heck, so is the new..... When you can buy a 2016 Stornello left over in 2018 for $6899, and a 2017 MGX from the factory crate in 2019 for $14999, both 6-7K off MSRP, that has an effect on the used market. I bought my 2014 Norge in 2015 for $6200.... a steal. I was able to negotiate to get $6K as a trade in. Sure maybe I could have gotten more on the private market, but I just see Guzzi's sit. There is a 1200 Sport in my area on Craigslist for almost 2 years.
The V7's seem to be moving, as they appeal to the skinny jean latte sippers, and Guzzistas, but every dealer I look at has 2016, 2017, 2018 models plugging the floor and inventory, with a few 2019. Ah, the challenges of a Niche brand.
This factor is why I still own my 78 XS750, and 79 XS1100. They arent worth squat, but dont cost me anything to keep in storage in a friends garage ;-) I know I would regret selling them, and when the time came and I had room to keep with me would be irreplaceable.
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My opinion is I think motorcycling in general is a dwindling thing. Here in Texas it seems sport bikes or Harley’s but everything just loses value too fast. My point is there aren’t quantity of buyers possibly
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:sad: I wish I hadn't read this post !
A Red 1200 at a give away price :drool:
Now the competing voices in my head will argue the merits of how close to a :thewife: I am prepared to get.
It's after all halfway between my V11 & the CARC Griso. And red. :rolleyes: and nearby
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Love my Guzzi, but I have made an observation.
When I first got the BRAND NEW GRiSO my riding pal (owns a new H-D) said "good Lord!, take it back to the dealer, it sounds like your motor is coming apart!".
24k miles later, and not even broken in yet, I hear from other passerbys "that thing is worn out already?! Listen to it!". I'd imagine this spooks some potential buyers.
Bottom line for me. I'M happy and it runs like a freight train.
Too much "character" and some people's heads explode... :rolleyes:
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Paid $2,100 for my 36K mile Clean '98 V11EV about 5 years ago. Amazed how inexpensive these wonderful machines are.
I expect that resale will be even less than that. I figure I die owning my bikes and let the heirs worry about usability versus resale value.
Motor Guzzi is really short money for some solid machinery. In this economy with the motorcycling falling out of favor it definitely is a buyer's market.
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Ironic. I bought my T-3 in 89 when they were probably at their minimum value. Currently I could probably get more for my T-3 than my Norge 8V. Maybe when I can't ride it anymore the Norge will become sought after.
GiderJohn
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If anyone buys a motorcycle with the expectation of making money on it, that’s wishful thinking. One is suppose to trade the money loss for the joy of owning and riding that bike. Remember, you can’t put a price on good memories. Every time I’ve had an issue with one of my three guzzis I’ve made another friend here who became a personal friend whom I talk with regularly and hope to eventually go meet in person:)
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Bought my T3 about 12 years ago. It had been sitting dead for18 years in a garage with all fluids on board. Needed a complete recon.
Paid 60% more for it than my "drive it home" V11EV.
Guess the price difference has something to do with the T3's greater "fun value" and longer fuel endurance. :grin:
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If you sell it your not going to get anywhere near what you think it should be worth. The market is just too small. But I agree, unless you really need the extra 2-3 grand, who cares.
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As a general rule , with motorbikes at least , the more reliable survivor bikes , which tend to be the work-a-day models that sold in relatively large quantities new because they were reliable don't bring much money . The exotic stuff , or things that were sexy but not really reliable bring more money , because most of them didn't survive . Ever wonder why a Triumph Bonneville from 1967 brings more money than a decent /5 Beemer ? Or why an MV Augusta America has folks drooling , while a better performing and more reliable bike from the same era gets a "meh" ?
Dusty
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I purchased a Ducati Supersport recently, I wanted to trade in my 98 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (80K miles). They offered $500 trade but said I could still keep the bike.
I have a nice 1200 Bandit, that might be faster than the Ducati (in a straight line). I am short on garage space but couldn't stand to give it away to someone that will abuse or cut it up.
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I purchased a Ducati Supersport recently, I wanted to trade in my 98 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (80K miles). They offered $500 trade but said I could still keep the bike.
I have a nice 1200 Bandit, that might be faster than the Ducati (in a straight line). I am short on garage space but couldn't stand to give it away to someone that will abuse or cut it up.
Is that a one lunger or twin. Sorry I’m not familiar with yamas
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Is that a one lunger or twin. Sorry I’m not familiar with yamas
It’s an in-line four , and a Suzuki.
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It’s an in-line four , and a Suzuki.
Oops sorry, I meant Suzuki. I was thinking that at one time Suzuki has a one lunger 650 called bandit and just wondered if it was a similar design. Thanks
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I checked and my insurance would go UP (yes up) if I sold my Bassa and by quite a bit, $800/yr. Can't figure out why, except that there must be different levels of multi-bike discounts. Needless to say, that was a strong dis-incentive to sell.
Rich A
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Oops sorry, I meant Suzuki. I was thinking that at one time Suzuki has a one lunger 650 called bandit and just wondered if it was a similar design. Thanks
That Suzuki was named, improbably, the Savage.
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This in another reason one should not buy a motorcycle (at least a new or late model) using a loan as you will be quickly behind the cure and in the hole.
GliderJohn
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Enzo at Cadre buys bikes to resell. You should give him a call. He is fair, but will still offer a price where he can make a dime. Blu came to me that way. An older fellow bought it in the fall of 16 and must have scared himself as he only went 400 miles. Enzo bought it and resold it to me in June of 17, smokin deal and 1 1/2 years warranty.
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Some bikes see appreciation eventually, some don’t. Most Guzzis have done so, but I think the Breva derivatives have very little appeal to classic bike buyers and won’t in the future, no more so than an R1150R BMW. I think most of them will eventually see their engine and engine parts used in custom bikes, with the bike being worth about as much as its engine. The Griso has more potential and the spine framed bikes have significant potential.
Over the last 30 years I have better than broken even with my bike values, some have depreciated, more have appreciated. You can do that by buying bikes with what proves to be a long lasting appeal, somewhere near the bottom on their depreciation curve. For example I bought an early Le Mans for $1800, a bevel SS for $5700 and so on. For bikes to be run hard and long, it’s more challenging to conserve money but possible: I’ve had three R100GSs and made money on the two I sold. The current one is worth about twice what I paid for it. So by choosing a little bit of care, I think you can spend less on your motorcycling.
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I just ride what appeals to me, but to each his own. I have no intention of breaking even, and that’s fine for me.
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You can do that by buying bikes with what proves to be a long lasting appeal, somewhere near the bottom on their depreciation curve. For example I bought an early Le Mans for $1800, a bevel SS for $5700 and so on. I’ve had three R100GSs and made money on the two I sold. The current one is worth about twice what I paid for it. So by choosing a little bit of care, I think you can spend less on your motorcycling.
Without looking backward from an actual buy, how can anyone know when a bike is at the bottom of the depreciation curve?
Sounds like timing your buying of stock shares when the price has gone "as low as it's going to go" or selling "at the top of the price curve".
I mean, you can guess, but ... let's see if we can predict one. When will the price of Grisos bottom out so it's the best possible time to buy one before they start getting popular like the Ambassadors described above? This post will still be here 15 years from now, we can look back and see .... ?
Lannis
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Without looking backward from an actual buy, how can anyone know when a bike is at the bottom of the depreciation curve?
Based on my experience, by thinking about it. Some things are obviously desirable regardless of age. Perfection in judgement is not required, nor buying at the very lowest value possible over time - I wrote “somewhere near” not at. I think 1100 Sports and many 90s Ducati’s would be a good choice right now, and probably for years from now. They’re not going to rocket up in value, but I don’t think anybody thinks they’re going to lose value either.
The opposite end of the spectrum (i.e. not thinking about it) would be buying models that it is fairly obvious will be a way to spend money and never get it back: to me Brevas were in that category from day one, as was almost anything Aprilia has ever made and so on. BMWs made over the last 20 years of so. That’s fine if you’re in a position to lose motorcycle money without concern.. I’m not and like the OP don’t want to be :wink:
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I'm on my third price reduction with this trusty ride. I just don't get it....runs like new!
https://southjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/d/mays-landing-harley-davidson-road-glide/6910250879.html
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I'm on my third price reduction with this trusty ride. I just don't get it....runs like new!
https://southjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/d/mays-landing-harley-davidson-road-glide/6910250879.html
Very VERY few people understand the concept of having over 100,000 miles on a motorcycle. Market will be extremely limited. Most people will run away, run away .....
Lannis
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On mileage.....yeah, I have to agree. There are so many low miles used bikes for sale that most people wont bother with a high mile bike, even though some may give many more miles of service. When I am trolling for a late model used bike, I dont even look at anything with 20K or over
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Some bikes see appreciation eventually, some don’t. Most Guzzis have done so, but I think the Breva derivatives have very little appeal to classic bike buyers and won’t in the future, no more so than an R1150R BMW. I think most of them will eventually see their engine and engine parts used in custom bikes, with the bike being worth about as much as its engine.
You're absolutely correct on the Breva series and the oilhead BMWs. I have a very nice R1100R that was worth around $3500 2 years ago, about $2500 last summer, and can't seem to generate any interest in it this summer at even $1500. And it's not just me or this bike, I watch nice rides being reposted on Ebay weekly with price drops, to ridiculous levels, and either not selling at all or being bought at prices I'd be ashamed to even offer a seller 2 years ago.
With the older riders aging out and not buying bikes, even selling the ones they have, and few younger folks being interested in riding, with a very few model exceptions, the used motorcycle business is circling the drain, and probably will never improve. I'm thinking of giving my top shape R1100R to a good friend who got into a bind recently and had to sell his own BMW. I'd much rather give it to him than to a stranger.
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I'm on my third price reduction with this trusty ride. I just don't get it....runs like new!
https://southjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/d/mays-landing-harley-davidson-road-glide/6910250879.html
Not trying to sound snarky , but average trade in for that bike is only about $6K with average mileage , which is probably what , 30K miles . Older HD's don't hold their value now like they did 10 years ago , too many for sale , very few buyers .
Dusty
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I can understand why there are little to no interest in the Harley with that mileage. As Dusty said, not being snarky, whatever that means anyway, but when one knows the cost of almost any repairs at the HD dealership it a roll of the dice when something IS going to fail and there a hundreds of very low mileage Harley’s out there in that year range at very reasonable prices. Last word if it were mine I’d be just like the seller here, I’d get what I thought it was worth or let her sit and hang my jackets on the handle bars:)
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I can understand why there are little to no interest in the Harley with that mileage. As Dusty said, not being snarky, whatever that means anyway, but when one knows the cost of almost any repairs at the HD dealership it a roll of the dice when something IS going to fail and there a hundreds of very low mileage Harley’s out there in that year range at very reasonable prices. Last word if it were mine I’d be just like the seller here, I’d get what I thought it was worth or let her sit and hand my jackets on the handle bars:)
Now this is just me, and I know this doesn't suit everyone, but I don't sell anything until I WANT TO SELL IT. And by Sell It I mean take what the market will give for it, and not worry about what it "should be" worth, or what the "book value" is, or how much I paid for it, or anything. It's only worth one number, and that's what someone will give for it.
We've been decluttering lately, and we've sent a lot of furniture and old equipment and tractors to consignment auctions. I sold a Ferguson 50 tractor, and I was perfectly happy to take the $1800 that was the sum of the judgments of 50 farmers who needed a tractor to pull a cart or a hay rake ...
I really have no room to make good on my bluff of "If I can't get what I know it's worth, I'll just keep it". I've been keeping some of this stuff for 40 years, and it's time to go, regardless.
Lannis
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Now this is just me, and I know this doesn't suit everyone, but I don't sell anything until I WANT TO SELL IT. And by Sell It I mean take what the market will give for it, and not worry about what it "should be" worth, or what the "book value" is, or how much I paid for it, or anything. It's only worth one number, and that's what someone will give for it.
We've been decluttering lately, and we've sent a lot of furniture and old equipment and tractors to consignment auctions. I sold a Ferguson 50 tractor, and I was perfectly happy to take the $1800 that was the sum of the judgments of 50 farmers who needed a tractor to pull a cart or a hay rake ...
I really have no room to make good on my bluff of "If I can't get what I know it's worth, I'll just keep it". I've been keeping some of this stuff for 40 years, and it's time to go, regardless.
Lannis
Your one statement says it all Lannis, “it worth what someone will give for it”👍👍
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I'm on my third price reduction with this trusty ride. I just don't get it....runs like new!
https://southjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/d/mays-landing-harley-davidson-road-glide/6910250879.html
I know this bike. Yes, it's a big Harley pig but very well maintained. I would think some sleeveless guy wearing fingerless gloves would buy it just to point at the odometer while parked at the local WaWa convienence store? Look at THESE miles!
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I know this bike. Yes, it's a big Harley pig but very well maintained. I would think some sleeveless guy wearing fingerless gloves would buy it just to point at the odometer while parked at the local WaWa convienence store? Look ar THESE miles!
Don't HD dashboards go blank when they aren't running ? Makes it hard to brag :laugh:
Dusty
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Don't HD dashboards go blank when they aren't running ? Makes it hard to brag :laugh:
Dusty
They'd have to start it up and blip the throttle a few times.
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Don't HD dashboards go blank when they aren't running ? Makes it hard to brag :laugh:
Dusty
Well, maybe he left it running because the battery was going bad, just so he could point to the miles on his Harley while sitting at the WaWa store. By the way, what’s a WaWa store do?
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Well, maybe he left it running because the battery was going bad, just so he could point to the miles on his Harley while sitting at the WaWa store. By the way, what’s a WaWa store do?
They sell Wa Was , obviously you haven't ever watched *clerks* :laugh:
On second thought , :angry:don't watch that movie , it doesn't make any sense :shocked:
Dusty
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They sell Wa Was , obviously you haven't ever watched *clerks* :laugh:
On second thought , :angry:don't watch that movie , it doesn't make any sense :shocked:
Dusty
Ok, I got it Dusty. My wife informed me it was a northern thing and that being from the south I wouldn’t understand:(. She’s from southern Jersey, I see how it is now😂
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The key to this whole thing is - if you can't text on your phone while driving/riding it, it is not worth having. They are all on the friggin phone.
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Yeah, the phone. I just got tickets for the Dead & Co for Tuesday and they sent them to me on the phone.
The bigger deal is that you can't purchase tickets from the venue, only from resellers. I am not sure why $50 tickets sell for $150 when you tack on service fees and get "resold" from the original seller? And you never know the final cost with the tack-ons until you buy them. And the reseller sites vary by about 50% for tickets in the same section. And I have the option of selling my tickets after I bought them. Really?
Shit, my 1200 Bandit ain't worth the price of two tickets.
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I enjoyed reading the many opinions about putting the 1200 Sport on the market. And agree with most of them.
- Pete saying that the CARC bikes were probably the best bikes to come out of Mandello.
- all those who said 'its only worth what someone will pay for it.
- those who suggested parking it in the garage since selling it won't do anything but free up a small amount of space.
68,000 miles isn't much if I personally intend to keep the bike and use it when called for, like for example. a ride calling for a full on mile muncher with bags and enough wind protection. Thinking about my son, his wife, and daughter moving to Shelby, NC soon. The 12S would probably be the best of my 3 bikes for riding from NE Ohio to there and back.
I was initially thinking about having a little bit of cash in the 'next bike' account. But it's hardly worth doing.
Thanks, all, for your thoughts.
Bob
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After looking in the mirror, I swallowed hard and decided to sell my all-time favorite '98 K1200RS with 134,000 miles. Aside from tires, brake pads, batteries, fluids, and filters, the bike was in excellent condition and cost me nothing to own over the 21 years I owned it. I paid $18k for the bike new and was pleased to get $1600 for it. A few hundred dollars either way would have made no difference to me.
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I enjoyed reading the many opinions about putting the 1200 Sport on the market. And agree with most of them.
- Pete saying that the CARC bikes were probably the best bikes to come out of Mandello.
- all those who said 'its only worth what someone will pay for it.
- those who suggested parking it in the garage since selling it won't do anything but free up a small amount of space.
68,000 miles isn't much if I personally intend to keep the bike and use it when called for, like for example. a ride calling for a full on mile muncher with bags and enough wind protection. Thinking about my son, his wife, and daughter moving to Shelby, NC soon. The 12S would probably be the best of my 3 bikes for riding from NE Ohio to there and back.
I was initially thinking about having a little bit of cash in the 'next bike' account. But it's hardly worth doing.
Thanks, all, for your thoughts.
Bob
I concur, Bob. You've made the right decision. Hell, I've got three of them, and I'm not going to part with any for the same reason.
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I'm on my third price reduction with this trusty ride. I just don't get it....runs like new!
https://southjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/d/mays-landing-harley-davidson-road-glide/6910250879.html
That's easy. Why buy the 100k+ mile one when there are thousands or tens of thousands available with a fraction of that.
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Don't HD dashboards go blank when they aren't running ? Makes it hard to brag :laugh:
Dusty
Jokes aside, you don't need the key to see the mileage. Just press the trip meter button on a Harley that's not running with no key in the ignition and the odo lights up for a few seconds and shows the miles.
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Am I the only one who really never forms an emotional attachment to mechanical devices ?
Dusty
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Am I the only one who really never forms an emotional attachment to mechanical devices ?
Dusty
Wouldn't you call your motorcycle a "mechanical device"?
You heathen!!! :violent1:
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Wouldn't you call your motorcycle a "mechanical device"?
You heathen!!! :violent1:
That's really all it is , a tool , like a saw or a wrench . Yes , I love the feeling it can give me , but it is still just a mechanical device .
Dusty
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Give away? Meh, sure to the right person, or just to get rid of something I don't want/need any more. I mean, crap, I pay a lot for booze and meals sometimes, but I don't think about them for a second when I'm done. Is it just this illusion of a depreciating asset? Well, ok, but if it doesn't OWE you anything, then why worry?
As for emotional attachments to innatimate objects, sure, why not. We're not talking marriage here, just an attachment. Finding the right stuff that makes your life better can certainly justify some fondness.
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It’s a mechanical device that reflects with uncanny accuracy the values and priorities of the people that created it. I think more so than any other kind of mechanical device. When and if corporate homogeneity or whatever else removes that trait, I’ll be done buying new motorcycles.
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Give away? Meh, sure to the right person, or just to get rid of something I don't want/need any more. I mean, crap, I pay a lot for booze and meals sometimes, but I don't think about them for a second when I'm done. Is it just this illusion of a depreciating asset? Well, ok, but if it doesn't OWE you anything, then why worry?
As for emotional attachments to innatimate objects, sure, why not. We're not talking marriage here, just an attachment. Finding the right stuff that makes your life better can certainly justify some fondness.
I tend to be dispassionate about most things . I love my friends and family , Mother Nature , and my dog . My friend Bill from Madison WI describes motorcycles as "wonderful devices" , and they are . However if they are just sitting there , all they are is a device .
Go ahead , flame away .
Dusty
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no flame.. just a different mindset.. Ive always had a attachment for mechanical things. Strange maybe... but you know... we are who we are.
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I'm on my third price reduction with this trusty ride. I just don't get it....runs like new!
https://southjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/d/mays-landing-harley-davidson-road-glide/6910250879.html
Beautiful bike. I'll guess the mileage is scaring off those buyers looking for a bike to brag about how low the miles are on it.
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Am I the only one who really never forms an emotional attachment to mechanical devices ?
Dusty
When one totally rebuilds a motorcycle himself - hands on every single piece - one tends to form an emotional attachment.
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Neil Young: "Long May You Run." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYna-UAt75c
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That's really all it is , a tool , like a saw or a wrench . Yes , I love the feeling it can give me , but it is still just a mechanical device .
Dusty
Yeah machines..
They are inanimate cold devices.... I've known people that could easily be described the same way.
But to a gearhead (guilty) some machines have a personality, for lack of a better word, and seem to be able to cop an attitude of sorts..
Imagination..a powerful force..no?
:-)
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Over the years and the 25-30 bikes I've had, pretty much all of them have ended-up being a short sell. All of them were purchased to ride and enjoy, not to make money. The only bikes I've ever come close to breaking even on have been of the off road variety.
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What do you consider 'giving it away'?
Sad to say, but i'd guess the market will only bear about $2-2,500 for a Sport 2008 with 68k miles.... And that might take a while.
Hell, I only paid $3.8k for my 2007 breva and it had 9k miles on it (bought in 2013)
I do agree with the mileage scaring many buyers off... most people think any bike over 20k miles is "high mileage"
Good luck with your sale... I don't think I will ever sell my Breva, it's the most trouble-free and easy MG I've ever ridden... By a large margin!
I have been considering sending it to GT Moto and having it tarted up and re-worked into a 'new' bike instead of purchasing something new! Of course that will depend on the v65 staying out of the shop for a few months straight to I have something to ride! :boozing:
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I bought my Cal wrecked, for $1500 in '01. Cost me $1500 in parts to make it perfect. Probably lucky to get $2K for it today. But I don't care, I'm still very happy with it. I looked at the new Guzzis at the dealer demo in Bethel last month. They're real cool looking and all, but I found somewhat to my surprise that I wasn't the least bit interested in riding one or buying one.
Larry
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I sold an ST1100 ABS Honda this spring which had 80000 miles on it. If you know these bikes they will go north of 200K if taken care of. I had a couple of people call and say my ad was wrong because the photo of the odometer read 8000, I guess they couldn't read numbers. Sold it to a guy who researched it, knew what it was and the mileage didn't faze him. A lot of bike for $1900, Corbin seat. works shock, Heli bars. Had one guy was going to drive 1000 miles to get it but I think his wife talked him out of it. He wanted a spare St1100.
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I didn't realize the newer guzzis went so cheap! Too bad I'm not into FI.
Up until 1990 I'd always had a bike, but never got really attached to any of them. In fact after I'd sold the Virago (wanted a drive shaft bike) I figured it just wasn't practical having a bike in rainy Portland Oregon. But then I got the R90 and everything changed. Those things grabbed me and wouldn't let go. And it's been the same with the Guzzis since having them.
Yes, they're inanimate objects, but if it's just a 'tool for the job' then you'll have about as much attachment to it as the fridge. Charlie makes a good point - working on your own bike makes a difference, but I've always worked on them. It took the right ones to connect. I got into the R1100S almost 20 years ago and did a lot to that bike, even rebuilt second that was totaled, but it never connected like the airheads. It's a great tool, but to me has the emotional attachment of a fridge.
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Right now 1995-2005 vehicles are bottoming out on the depreciation curve. You see this all across this market. It's not your bike alone. This curve is very predictable and shouldn't surprise anyone.
Now some vehicles will come up (more desirable ones, Corvettes) and some never will (1998 Cavalier for example).
You can get a V11 Sport for almost nothing (there's a LeMans for $2800 on CL right now).
Now which ones will go up in the Guzzi world? The 1100 SPOTS are already climbing. I expect the V11 Sports will soon (probably the Greenies, ahem, and the Scuras). The 1200 Sports are interesting, the SPOTS were very sporty, the V11 Sports less so and by the time of the 1200 Sport it's, well, not really sporty.
In the end you sell stuff for what you can when you have to sell. I tend to take a bath on every sale and I celebrate when I break even.
But there are worse hobbies.
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"Sport" was a really bad choice of name for the Breva 1200 with small fairing and seat cowl. But I think it excels on the main roads and sweeping mountain roads. If one likes some relatively smooth air passing their helmet and shoulders, it seems to be in it's element. To me, it's a heavy but capable sport tourer. I bought the Bike in Oct of 2009 from Eddie's in Swanzey, NH over the phone. Before simply taking the order, Eddie said that he had a couple of Norges and 1200 Sports in stock at nicely reduced prices, than asked me a couple of basic questions.
- what bikes over the past 25-30 years did you keep the longest and enjoy most? Answer, BMW K and R RS models (and the R100GS)
- which ones did you get rid of quickly? Answer, Honda ST 1300 and BMW K1100LT.
At this point, I was leaning toward the Norge, because of simply how lovely it looked in silver, and the fairing was less intrusive than those on the ST and LT.
A few more basic questions, and Eddie said "......... If I were you, I'd go for the 1200 Sport. It's a v twin version of past bikes you've enjoyed and hung onto for a long time.
Thanks, Eddie!
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"Giving a bike away" was literally what I did with my 2007 Road King. It was utterly perfect, and utterly stock (other than the Mustang seat, but I gave the original away with the bike). But it had 50K miles, which meant that it was undesirable to a dealer for trade-in, and unattractive to all but bottom-feeders on Craig's List. No one but me EVER touched it for maintenance or repairs. I wanted a new one and didn't need or want two of them (I have plenty of bikes). So I gave it to a friend who has ridden Harleys (Sportsters) since he was a teenager and who always wanted a Road King, but couldn't really afford one.
I would always have been irritated at the low trade-in price I would have received for it, given my level of attention to its maintenance. But instead I have the satisfaction of seeing someone I know well enjoying it.
This program only works if money isn't an issue at all.
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When one totally rebuilds a motorcycle himself - hands on every single piece - one tends to form an emotional attachment.
So true.
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Jokes aside, you don't need the key to see the mileage. Just press the trip meter button on a Harley that's not running with no key in the ignition and the odo lights up for a few seconds and shows the miles.
Just make sure the owner's right there .... sometimes if a guy sees you pushing buttons on his bike in a parking lot, it could be hazardous to your health! :whip2: :copcar:
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Strangely, with the exception of Griso's and big tank Stelvios, all the CARC bikes seem to be about as popular as rat sandwiches! I really can't work out why as they are certainly among the very best to ever leave Mandello.
Pete, were the CARC bikes inspired by Aprilia? I always felt that Guzzi management wanted to build a family of bikes that competed favorably with (at the time) BMW bikes.
Bob
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When one totally rebuilds a motorcycle himself - hands on every single piece - one tends to form an emotional attachment.
True for me.
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Were the CARC bikes inspired by Aprilia? I always felt that Guzzi management wanted to build a family of bikes that competed favorably with (at the time) BMW bikes
The CARC chassis and styling was designed by Aprilia. Guzzis design and product management capability had been dismantled by then. Aprilia's somewhat naive idea was to compete head on with BMW, an unwise strategy given the financial resources of BMW and its ability to bury the Breva/Norge, and the fact that the Aprilia strategy ignored marketing Guzzi as a marque on its own very real strengths. They've seemingly learned a bit since then, even if it took 15+ years.
The powertrain, meaning chain driven OHC engine when used, new gearbox, new shaft drive etc was developed by Piaggio HQ.
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Every bike I want to buy cost more than it's worth...Every bike I sell is worth nearly nothing..Why is this ? :laugh:
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1200 Sports are a hard sell. A lot of people(including many Guzzi people) think it’s just a tarted up Breva but it’s not. They have quite a bit more power, adjustable suspension, better brakes and the cat is in the exhaust instead of hanging like a colostomy bag under the bike. They should sell for a premium over a Breva but they don’t seem to.
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My motto, buy high and sell low has always worked for me :boozing:
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When one totally rebuilds a motorcycle himself - hands on every single piece - one tends to form an emotional attachment.
Machines take on the life of the builder to some extent. <shrug>
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I've put about 30,000 miles on my 1200 Sport since I bought it in Nov. 2013. I love it because it reminds me so much of my long gone '75 BMW R90S. It has the character and feel of the R90S but with more power, modern and upgraded components. Riding position is very similar but with more comfort at the expense of 100 lbs. more weight which I am willing deal with for now. I find it to be a bike that excels in most types of riding I want to do. And since probably only ~100 examples of them made it to the states, much more rare.
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I grow attached to them. Once I set them up, modify them, work on them, keep them going, it gets personal. It's not like a car where you adjust the seat and mirrors and set the radio station and go; it's a all you do to set up the suspension, to adjust everything to fit, when you have to purchase and install more stuff, all the general maintenance and inspections you do before and after every ride, and how personal it is to ride them and build confidence braking and cornering and the differences and feel that you get from every bike is unique, each bike has a personality.
Actually, when I read that, it's crazy talk. So I am not quite sane.
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Just a tool, a mechanical device?
Then why do I touch it affectionately every time I walk through the garage, get a big smile on my face when it does my bidding on the road, and silently thank it every time it brings me home safely?
I tend to buy new, like marrying a virgin, and miss them when they’re gone like burying a pet. I tend to be a tightwad, except where bikes are concerned.
Guess I’m just a sentimental old loon.
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each bike has a personality.
Actually, when I read that, it's crazy talk. So I am not quite sane.
Only a little crazy, John.. me, too. :smiley: "Some" machines.. and I'm talking about machines where the operator has the machine in his or her hands.. have a sort of personality. I see it with motorcycles and airplanes. I could see a sailboat being that way, too, but have *very* limited experience with them.
Pilots know that airplanes of the same type fly a little differently. It has to do with the last guy that put them together. "Feel" of torque, cable tensions, rigging, that sort of thing.
When we were at the Virginia rally, Ron K told me the AeroLario said, "Don't F with me" when Dorcia and I were leaving the rally site. It *is* a snotty little booger. :grin:
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My motto, buy high and sell low has always worked for me :boozing:
I live by that motto.
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A few weeks ago, I attended the BMW MOA rally in Lebanon, TN. Sat in on a "sales" seminar on how to best market and sell your motorcycle. It was well attended, with standing room only. They started off by asking how many people in the room were selling a motorcycle. Virtually everyone in the room raised their hands. Then they asked how many people were wanting to buy a motorcycle. Maybe 3 or 4 people raised their hands. And there-in lies the problem.
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A few weeks ago, I attended the BMW MOA rally in Lebanon, TN. Sat in on a "sales" seminar on how to best market and sell your motorcycle. It was well attended, with standing room only. They started off by asking how many people in the room were selling a motorcycle. Virtually everyone in the room raised their hands. Then they asked how many people were wanting to buy a motorcycle. Maybe 3 or 4 people raised their hands. And there-in lies the problem.
Makes me wonder if the next question would be, "who wants to trade motorcycles?" Then you might see most of the crowd raise their hands.
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1200 Sports are a hard sell. A lot of people(including many Guzzi people) think it’s just a tarted up Breva but it’s not. They have quite a bit more power, adjustable suspension, better brakes and the cat is in the exhaust instead of hanging like a colostomy bag under the bike. They should sell for a premium over a Breva but they don’t seem to.
Agree. I rode a Breva at some mid point in my 1200 Sport ownership and remember it as very "meh". It just didn't have the same "ready to attack the corners" feel. The higher and narrower handle bars may have been a large part of it but it just wasn't as crisp and felt very pedestrian.
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NO. Last year when I was laid up from the wreck I got rid of a 46 year collection of 20 Guzzis, loads of parts and accessories for $5K. It cost me almost that much in labor to round up the stuff from the barn etc. My '71 that I bought new in '71 had well over 200K on it and the new owner got it running and was going to bike nights. Two '98 EV's had over 100K on them.
Why saddle my daughters with getting rid of this when I take a dirt nap? The chaplain from the hospital called Beaver because they didn't think I'd make it. The Guzzi stuff is mostly gone and I have no regrets as now someone else is enjoying it.
Tex
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I think that all bikes go through a period of time where they are considered just old and dated and not worth much. Once they reach an age where they are considered vintage and collectible, their value goes up. I remember when you couldn't give an Ambassador away. They were old, and didn't have the power or appeal of an Eldorado. I bought a couple of decent ones cheap back in the day, and later sold them cheap. I'm amazed at the prices they get today.
Larry
Yes. This called the bucket curve. Stuff falls to a very low value and then after some time (Usually way after you sell it) value start to climb again.
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My philosophy is when I'm ready to get rid of a bike, it should be pretty well used up. At least that is for the ones I keep for any length of time. The others were undoubtedly mistakes that I should have never gotten, but was to too dumb to know it and the price paid is justified.
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Just tried and failed to sell a 2012 Road Glide on Ebay. $2000 below so-called "book" and not one bid. You think used Moto Guzzi are hard to get rid of, try selling a late model Harley Davidson! On the other hand, my one-owner 1990 Low Rider just sold on Craigslist in two days for my asking price. Don't think I want to wait 30 years to get rid of my Road Glide, though.
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A few weeks ago, I attended the BMW MOA rally in Lebanon, TN. Sat in on a "sales" seminar on how to best market and sell your motorcycle. It was well attended, with standing room only. They started off by asking how many people in the room were selling a motorcycle. Virtually everyone in the room raised their hands. Then they asked how many people were wanting to buy a motorcycle. Maybe 3 or 4 people raised their hands. And there-in lies the problem.
BMW is selling 160,000 motorcycles a year, not Honda volume but several times what they were selling three decades ago. Club people aren’t buying them, they are now a mass market disposable... and nobody seeking status buys used appliances.
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Mike and other HD fans:
I have had 2 and count myself in your camp. I am 60 this year, but many of my riding friends are in their mid-60s and up as are many of the people that fueled the HD wave from about 1991-2010. Today's young for the most part don't think they have the cool factor like we did, not to mention how could they afford it anyway. Many would rather ride a Vespa or even, God-forbid - a bicycle. So, it seems that the market has hollowed out. Another factor is the price rise. When bikes get over $20k, not just HD, it means the used ones are going to be more expensive too. For me personally, at this stage of the game, anything over $10k takes a serious think. Plus, there are so many, many good low mileage used ones for under $10k. Before the Guzzi, I had an 03 K1200RS. From about 2015 until present, an under 30k mile example, loaded up (a supurb sport tourer and mile eater) can easily be had for $4k or less. If you want to sell a used HD, it has to be either a very desirable model (they still exist), or cheap. A sad state of affairs to be sure.
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BMW is selling 160,000 motorcycles a year, not Honda volume but several times what they were selling three decades ago. Club people aren’t buying them, they are now a mass market disposable... and nobody seeking status buys used appliances.
From my perspective it seems late model BMW motorcycles are now like the BMW cars, when the warranty runs out the price drops drastically. We all know why. :wink:
I have a 2007 R1200GS that I can't give away.
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All of my antique and vintage bikes are holding their value. Some of them have appreciated a bit.
Newer bikes is another story of course- value is dropping like stones.
And yes I get attached to all of them, old and new.
I have never become attached to cars. I always wait for a screaming deal on a leftover new vehicle and then after they have served me well, either I give them away to someone who needs it, or I make one last drive to the junkyard to turn them in. I appreciate a vehicle that does a good job for me but I never get attached to 4 wheelers.
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Just tried and failed to sell a 2012 Road Glide on Ebay. $2000 below so-called "book" and not one bid. You think used Moto Guzzi are hard to get rid of, try selling a late model Harley Davidson! On the other hand, my one-owner 1990 Low Rider just sold on Craigslist in two days for my asking price. Don't think I want to wait 30 years to get rid of my Road Glide, though.
Its a great example of two different ends of the spectrum.. The HD's can be tough to sell because there are just so many of them!! Every street corner has a HD of some sort for sale.. they are everywhere! The Guzzis are tough, because there is just not the people out there looking for them... Vary uncommon to see them come up for sale...… but when they do there just isn't the people looking...
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From my perspective it seems late model BMW motorcycles are now like the BMW cars, when the warranty runs out the price drops drastically. We all know why. :wink:
I have a 2007 R1200GS that I can't give away.
Can trade my Suzuki Bandit, plus a little cash from you to sweeten the deal
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For me motorcycles are experiences. How much do people pay to experience tropical islands, cruises, and other forms of recreation. I don't buy bikes or cars or anything else that depreciates based on its perceived low depreciation. I buy what I will enjoy.
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From my perspective it seems late model BMW motorcycles are now like the BMW cars, when the warranty runs out the price drops drastically. We all know why. :wink:
I have a 2007 R1200GS that I can't give away.
You haven't ever offered it to me for free :sad:
Dusty
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Harley produced over 240,000 motorcycles in 2017! Did they really think the world could keep absorbing $20,000 motorcycles ad infinitum? Used Harley prices were always supported by the fact that they only made 40 to 50,000 bikes per year for decades. When they opened the Kansas City plant (now closed) I knew they were heading for a fall. On Cycle Trader, when I bracket by one year ether side of my 2012 Road Glide, 343 of them are for sale!
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I hit a deer with my Roadglide- smashed the right hand side of the fairing, bent the engine guard back and scraped the saddlebags. All these bits were replaced which makes these parts new (less than 10 years old). This should increase the value. Where am I wrong with the valuation? Its a Harley and should be highly desirable. Kev likes them and thats worth gold! As for me, I broke two ribs and ruined a perfectly good full face Shoei. I still have the helmet...will let it go with the bike. Good deals to be had.
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I hit a deer with my Roadglide- smashed the right hand side of the fairing, bent the engine guard back and scraped the saddlebags. All these bits were replaced which makes these parts new (less than 10 years old). This should increase the value. Where am I wrong with the valuation? Its a Harley and should be highly desirable. Kev likes them and thats worth gold! As for me, I broke two ribs and ruined a perfectly good full face Shoei. I still have the helmet...will let it go with the bike. Good deals to be had.
I-877-KARS FOR KIDS
(HATE that song!)
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Harley produced over 240,000 motorcycles in 2017! Did they really think the world could keep absorbing $20,000 motorcycles ad infinitum? Used Harley prices were always supported by the fact that they only made 40 to 50,000 bikes per year for decades. When they opened the Kansas City plant (now closed) I knew they were heading for a fall. On Cycle Trader, when I bracket by one year ether side of my 2012 Road Glide, 343 of them are for sale!
It was over 300k by 06-07. The 240k number is down by a third.
The used prices were largely because of the waiting lists of the 90's but they were making over 100k bikes/year before the lists ended.
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I hit a deer with my Roadglide- smashed the right hand side of the fairing, bent the engine guard back and scraped the saddlebags. All these bits were replaced which makes these parts new (less than 10 years old). This should increase the value. Where am I wrong with the valuation? Its a Harley and should be highly desirable. Kev likes them and thats worth gold! As for me, I broke two ribs and ruined a perfectly good full face Shoei. I still have the helmet...will let it go with the bike. Good deals to be had.
It is not just volume that is driving used Harley prices down, it is evolutionary improvements. The Rushmore Road Glide is what finally had me part with my money for a Harley Davidson. Until I rode some of the new Softail bikes there was not another Harley I would consider putting in my stable than a Rushmore Touring Bike.
Prior to the 2009 Frame update the touring bikes felt hinged in the middle when leaned over in the twisties and expecially when riding "S" road where quick transitions are necessary to keep on the road.
The new Softails, M8 engines in the touring bikes, etc are way better bikes than 10 years ago.
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I hit a deer with my Roadglide- smashed the right hand side of the fairing, bent the engine guard back and scraped the saddlebags. All these bits were replaced which makes these parts new (less than 10 years old). This should increase the value. Where am I wrong with the valuation? Its a Harley and should be highly desirable
No that makes it a high mileage, crashed bike.
At least that's how the world sees it.
Your should have seen the reactions I got back in 95 when I was trying to sell my 93 XL1200 with 40k miles on it. Eventually an exporter bought it and rolled the odometer back to 5k.
When I was selling my 96 RK in 98 with 65k miles or was a similar reaction, but a guy bought it and it was over 100k before 00.
But these are generally the exceptions and most want that low mileage garage queen (for a song).
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For me motorcycles are experiences. How much do people pay to experience tropical islands, cruises, and other forms of recreation. I don't buy bikes or cars or anything else that depreciates based on its perceived low depreciation. I buy what I will enjoy.
I like the way you look at this. It is, after all, a form of recreation. It'd be difficult to take an expensive cruise, and then try to sell off our residual memories on CraigsList.
Bob
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No that makes it a high mileage, crashed bike.
At least that's how the world sees it.
Your should have seen the reactions I got back in 95 when I was trying to sell my 93 XL1200 with 40k miles on it. Eventually an exporter bought it and rolled the odometer back to 5k.
When I was selling my 96 RK in 98 with 65k miles or was a similar reaction, but a guy bought it and it was over 100k before 00.
But these are generally the exceptions and most want that low mileage garage queen (for a song).
I was able to sell a 2000 W650 in 2007 and a Triumph 2003 T100 in 2012 at the lower end of the-then normal asking price. Each bike had 50,000 miles approximately on the odometer. In both cases, these sold in large part because I kept a full, easy to read, maintenance history on an Excel spreadsheet. I've attached a screen capture of one page of several. Pretty anal retentive, I agree! Works for me.
Bob
(https://i.ibb.co/hBkJYnv/Screen-Capture-of-R100-GS-maint-record.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hBkJYnv)
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I was able to sell a 2000 W650 in 2007 and a Triumph 2003 T100 in 2012 at the lower end of the-then normal asking price. Each bike had 50,000 miles approximately on the odometer. In both cases, these sold in large part because I kept a full, easy to read, maintenance history on an Excel spreadsheet. I've attached a screen capture of one page of several. Pretty anal retentive, I agree! Works for me.
Bob
(https://i.ibb.co/hBkJYnv/Screen-Capture-of-R100-GS-maint-record.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hBkJYnv)
I should be clear that I sold both of those Harleys for the price I wanted/expected, which was only a couple grand lower than new MSRP. It just took more time.
Of course the market will no longer bear prices like that, but I'd adjust my expectations down accordingly.
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The only two bikes I ever made money on was a 1985 Yamaha RD500 LC European model and a mint 1977 RD400 . Now I have 2 V7III's and a 2016 Norge at 63 I've owned over 40 bikes mostly Japanese and a few HD's and Buells . I did get most of all of my money back on the 2010 Buell XB12XT because it was one of the last Buells made and the best .
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So far, lots of complaining and rationalizing from the "oh woe is me" perspective. no one has said "don't you hate to buy a great bike for a give away price?".... How many here have done exactly that and love to tell the story? It takes two to play the game.
Like some have mentioned, doing or playing with expensive things cost money. Profit isn't always a tangible thing. Every bargain deal that I or you have ever gotten means someone else lost money. Other than being giddy after closing the deal with a poker face, did you lose any sleep over that? Did you go back later and hand over a few hundred or thousand $$ just to ease your mind? Or did the eventual profit turn into more/better bikes, more profit, even more better bikes, ?? Maybe now it's your turn, because you helped create this world by fueling the motorcycle craze.
Think about the role you can play in the next motorhead's life by letting them have a thrill and potentially life changing opportunity of a getting great bike for little $$. That's very cool..
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No that makes it a high mileage, crashed bike.
At least that's how the world sees it.
I didn’t crash...I had to lay ‘er down!
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I didn’t crash...I had to lay ‘er down!
Right, that's a crash....
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I didn’t crash...I had to lay ‘er down!
You forgot to put the :wink: with that statment.
If you were being serious, I know guys who took out deer and never went down and were able to ride the bike home. A bike will stop much faster on its tires than on its side.