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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ncdan on July 06, 2019, 12:39:15 PM

Title: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 06, 2019, 12:39:15 PM
Hey guys, I need some advice or hopefully just info. Every now and then, not the norm, when I turn the switch on the 1400 and the system goes through it’s checks, the red triangle will stay on. It starts fine and sometimes the triangle will remain on but it idles fine and the URGENCY SERVICE warning does not activate. I can turn the ignition off and when I turn it back on the triangle will be gone. No other issues at all. Bike starts and runs great. Should I run any kind of test at this point or just wait until something ugly happens.
It only does this at the first start of the day and only occasionally. Some of you know what I went through when my TPS went bad last year about this time, so I’m a little concerned.   Thanks in advance for advise, comments  and your knowledge on the issue.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Scott of the Sahara on July 06, 2019, 01:48:00 PM
I think it is the oil pressure sending unit. I have the same thing on my 2008 Norge. I think it started in about 2012. I have not done anything.

Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: DougG on July 06, 2019, 02:17:18 PM
What Dan said.

Be well,
DougG
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Kiwi Dave on July 06, 2019, 04:35:10 PM
Got any fault codes on the dashboard?
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 06, 2019, 05:08:21 PM
Got any fault codes on the dashboard?
No sir, after the dashboards does it’s internal check thing the triangle stays on. The bike will start fine and idle fine. I can turn it off and immediately restart and it’s gone and will not come back on all day regardless of how many timers I start and restart. No URGENT SERVICE code like when my TPS went out last year. The bike also runs flawlessly, never better.  Go figure 😳
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: DougG on July 06, 2019, 05:15:30 PM
Hi Kiwi Dave,

I am about to confess my ignorance. 

Where would a fault code show itself on the dashboard?  Do I have to go to a specific mode?

Thanks,
DougG
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Sasquatch Jim on July 06, 2019, 05:20:15 PM
 The whole bikes preparing itself to detonate.  Send into me and I will safely dispose of it for free.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Kiwi Dave on July 06, 2019, 05:29:27 PM
Hi Kiwi Dave,

I am about to confess my ignorance. 

Where would a fault code show itself on the dashboard?  Do I have to go to a specific mode?

Thanks,
DougG

My bad.  I confused myself with CARC models.

You have to use Guzzidiag to see the fault codes.  Then you can identify the code and the the part of the system that is producing it.  Otherwise a dealer can do it with the PADS replacement diagnostics software.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 06, 2019, 05:48:27 PM
The whole bikes preparing itself to detonate.  Send into me and I will safely dispose of it for free.
Haha, you too funny Jimbo:)
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Huzo on July 06, 2019, 06:10:18 PM
If the triangle is on while riding.
Take the bike up to speed.
Pull in the clutch and shut the engine off.
Let the clutch out to spin the engine.
Pull the clutch back in and turn on the key.
Pop the clutch out.
The triangle will go out and it’ll be the sender.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 06, 2019, 06:34:47 PM
If the triangle is on while riding.
Take the bike up to speed.
Pull in the clutch and shut the engine off.
Let the clutch out to spin the engine.
Pull the clutch back in and turn on the key.
Pop the clutch out.
The triangle will go out and it’ll be the sender.
So I should leave it on the next time it comes on and try this?
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: beetle on July 06, 2019, 06:46:10 PM
Danny, check it with GuzziDiag. There should be error codes in the memory.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 06, 2019, 06:57:23 PM
Danny, check it with GuzziDiag. There should be error codes in the memory.
Thanks Mark, I’ll touch base in a couple days as Lisa May need some guidance in this endeavor. Can’t depend on that woman for nothing 😂😂😂
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: beetle on July 06, 2019, 07:23:43 PM
Can’t depend on that woman for nothing 😂😂😂


You wanna hope she doesn't read this. You'll be in so much trouble....     :thewife:



Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Huzo on July 06, 2019, 10:06:19 PM
So I should leave it on the next time it comes on and try this?
I would.
It led me straight to the solution with my Norge. If I had the knowlege to go through the diagnostics and trace it the correct way then I would, but my methods are a bit Stone Age.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 06, 2019, 11:39:54 PM
I would.
It led me straight to the solution with my Norge. If I had the knowlege to go through the diagnostics and trace it the correct way then I would, but my methods are a bit Stone Age.
Thanks Huzo!!!
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: JohninVT on July 07, 2019, 04:30:02 AM
I think it is the oil pressure sending unit. I have the same thing on my 2008 Norge. I think it started in about 2012. I have not done anything.

Same thing happened on my 1200 Sport.  It’s the same sending unit that’s been freaking out Guzzi riders for 15 years.  It’s a pain in the ass to change and I paid as much for the crow’s foot to replace it as I did the actual part. 
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 07, 2019, 07:32:52 AM
I learned a good lesson from the TPS bout last year, book the thing up to a laptop and let the computer tell ya what’s wrong with the thing. So that’s the plan sometime this week. I’ll keep y’all posted on the results.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 07, 2019, 08:12:49 AM
I just checked this morning and the issue is still present. Turned the switch on and the red triangle came on, started the bike and it continued flashing off and on. Turned it off and restarted and it was gone and she runs great. Something is definitely going on. Crap!
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Huzo on July 07, 2019, 02:41:10 PM
I just checked this morning and the issue is still present. Turned the switch on and the red triangle came on, started the bike and it continued flashing off and on. Turned it off and restarted and it was gone and she runs great. Something is definitely going on. Crap!
Sender, sender, sender x 50
It won’t be that hard to throw a new one at it Daniel.
Have a day off work, get up early, have a nice breakfast and just do it mate !
It’s not worth the mental anguish.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 07, 2019, 03:46:31 PM
Sender, sender, sender x 50
It won’t be that hard to throw a new one at it Daniel.
Have a day off work, get up early, have a nice breakfast and just do it mate !
It’s not worth the mental anguish.
You are probably right Huzo. I’m going to get wife to hook it up to the lap top in the next few days and see what the code is for sure before I start taking  the tank off. Is that sensor easy to get and what’s the cost?
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Huzo on July 07, 2019, 03:56:22 PM
You are probably right Huzo. I’m going to get wife to hook it up to the lap top in the next few days and see what the code is for sure before I start taking  the tank off. Is that sensor easy to get and what’s the cost?
That’s where I better pull up mate.
I don’t know anything about your bike and it’s intricacies. There’ll be those here that will though.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Kiwi Dave on July 07, 2019, 04:04:05 PM
I had an intermittent red triangle fault on my Cali 1400, which turned out to be a faulty clutch switch at the handlebar.  Guzzidiag was showing fault P0745, which wasn't even listed.  Finally, it became consistent and the bike went into limp home mode.  This was after the local dealer checked the bike over, charged me $90 and said nothing was wrong.

So before you order that oil pressure switch and whip the tank off (actually no whipping, it's not a quick process), get Guzzidiag running and read the error codes.  The oil switch is a known weak point on the CARC models, but doesn't necessarily apply here.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Huzo on July 07, 2019, 04:07:15 PM
I had an intermittent red triangle fault on my Cali 1400, which turned out to be a faulty clutch switch at the handlebar.  Guzzidiag was showing fault P0745, which wasn't even listed.  Finally, it became consistent and the bike went into limp home mode.  This was after the local dealer checked the bike over, charged me $90 and said nothing was wrong.

So before you order that oil pressure switch and whip the tank off (actually no whipping, it's not a quick process), get Guzzidiag running and read the error codes.  The oil switch is a known weak point on the CARC models, but doesn't necessarily apply here.
That sounds like a sensible approach actually.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 07, 2019, 04:10:33 PM
It’s down right disgusting that these so called modern machines have these wonderful upgrades in mechanics that make them so %€?> wonderful that they think for you, ABS,  TRACTION CONTROL, RIDE MODES and everything else under the sun, however the chicken $#|+ sensors that regulate them can’t make it 6k miles!!!! This is nothing short of disgusting!!  Sorry but it’s difficult to control a rant that’s building up here. Hell it didn’t even make it to 2700 miles before a high dollar TPS sensor crashed and if it had not been for one of my buddies here I would have had to BLOW over 600 bucks to get it fixed!!!!
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 07, 2019, 04:14:45 PM
I had an intermittent red triangle fault on my Cali 1400, which turned out to be a faulty clutch switch at the handlebar.  Guzzidiag was showing fault P0745, which wasn't even listed.  Finally, it became consistent and the bike went into limp home mode.  This was after the local dealer checked the bike over, charged me $90 and said nothing was wrong.

So before you order that oil pressure switch and whip the tank off (actually no whipping, it's not a quick process), get Guzzidiag running and read the error codes.  The oil switch is a known weak point on the CARC models, but doesn't necessarily apply here.
Thanks Dave, you are right. I don’t know if all newer brands of bikes experience this type of issues but after I went through the headaches of the TPS SENSOR at 2600 miles this is starting to be an overload😡😡😡😡😡😡
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: M0T0Geezer on July 07, 2019, 06:12:26 PM
All I can say is...

My 2004 Honda Silverwing Scooter: Absolutely zero oil pressure, fuel mapping, ECU, TPS or other sensor probs in 23,000 miles. Zero driveline problems.

My 2005 Honda Gold Wing 1800:  Absolutely zero oil pressure, fuel mapping, ECU, TPS or other sensor probs in 25,000 miles.  Zero driveline problems.

My 2005 Honda ST1300: Absolutely zero oil pressure, fuel mapping, ECU, TPS or other sensor probs in 45,000 miles.   Zero driveline problems.

My 2007 Yamaha Majesty Scooter: Absolutely zero oil pressure, fuel mapping, ECU, TPS or other sensor probs in 26,000 miles.   Zero driveline problems.

My 2007 Moto Guzzi Norge 1200 (2-Valve): Ongoing problems with oil pressure light, fuel mapping, ECU, TPS and other sensor probs in the 6,000 miles I've owned it. Not to mention the whole CARC unit schat itself during that time.

It is so sad that Moto Guzzi allows so many bugs and gremlins to sully the aura and reputation of its legendary brand name.   

Yet I do so love the Norge and the Breva 750 before it...  This is in spite of yettanuther example of Big Corporate ravaging of historical DNA:

   Harley/AMF,  Fender/CBS, Moto Guzzi/gang-bang  etc etc.

'Geezer

Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: pete roper on July 07, 2019, 06:55:14 PM

My 2007 Moto Guzzi Norge 1200 (2-Valve): Ongoing problems with oil pressure light, fuel mapping, ECU, TPS and other sensor probs in the 6,000 miles I've owned it. Not to mention the whole CARC unit schat itself during that time.

It is so sad that Moto Guzzi allows so many bugs and gremlins to sully the aura and reputation of its legendary brand name.   

Yet I do so love the Norge and the Breva 750 before it...  This is in spite of yettanuther example of Big Corporate ravaging of historical DNA:

   Harley/AMF,  Fender/CBS, Moto Guzzi/gang-bang  etc etc.

'Geezer

If you are getting continuous oil pressure warnings your oil pump has probably busted it's outer rotor. Get to it before it torches the motor.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: beetle on July 07, 2019, 07:57:25 PM

Yes, Moto Guzzi's are shite. Burn them all and go away so the rest of us can enjoy ours.



Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on July 07, 2019, 08:27:33 PM
If you are getting continuous oil pressure warnings your oil pump has probably busted it's outer rotor. Get to it before it torches the motor.

Needless to say, listen to Pete.  :smiley: There was a run of bad oil pumps in 07, from memory around October and November.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Huzo on July 07, 2019, 11:09:18 PM
Needless to say, listen to Pete.  :smiley: There was a run of bad oil pumps in 07, from memory around October and November.
He’s not convinced it’s an oil issue necessarily is he ?
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: pete roper on July 07, 2019, 11:43:49 PM
Nobody is 'Convinced' of anything but there is a known issue of a batch of bad pumps on 2007 Norges in particular so if he's getting constant pressure warning alerts common sense dictates you look at the known issue before flying off wildly at a tangent.

As for TPS, ECU and 'Mapping' problems? The fact that all three are listed means presumably that all three have been singled out at one time or another as the source of ongoing problems but the suggestion seems that problems persist. To me, as a casual observer, the source of the 'Problems' is far more likely to be related to who has been working on the bike. Like, just maybe, they haven't got a clue what they're doing!

You know how many TPS's I've replaced on W5AM Guzzis in the last 13 years? One! How many ECU's? Two, and one of them was a spare I sent to someone who was sure his ECU was dead but my one didn't fix the issue. He didn't think it necessary to send it back mind, even though I'd lent it to him. One that looked suspiciously like it appeared on eBay a few weeks later. So let's lower that down to one, (That got voltage spiked, not the ECU's fault.)

As for 'Mapping Problems'? While the standard Norge map is a bit pedestrian and lack lustre it doesn't cause any dreadful fuelling issues or terrible behaviour. What will is if the bike has been fiddled with by someone who doesn't know what they are doing. Most bad running is caused by clowns playing about with the throttlebodies and saying that They should be adjusted "Like Carburettors". :violent1:

As for the CARC problem? No, it shouldn't of happened and I personally think the use of a collapsible spacer between the pinion bearings was a mistake BUT they only rarely fail and if caught early can be fixed with little pain and expense. It's a machine. Sometimes they go wrong, but it's not common.

Pete
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: gthorpe on July 07, 2019, 11:48:06 PM
I think it is the oil pressure sending unit. I have the same thing on my 2008 Norge. I think it started in about 2012. I have not done anything.

You describe the exact symptoms I had on my 2016 Eldorado. I got GuzziDiag & bought the cables and read P0155 and P0156 fast codes. Digging into it further I read the TGPS values which pointed to a faulty Throttle Grip Position Sensor. I am now in the process of replacing it
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: pete roper on July 08, 2019, 12:47:49 AM
No RBW on Norge. Simple TPS rather than demand sensor.
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: elvisboy77 on July 08, 2019, 07:01:37 AM
Yes, Moto Guzzi's are shite. Burn them all and go away so the rest of us can enjoy ours.

Exactly.  Quit crowing about your Honda's and go troll their discussion group.

Everyone knows Moto Guzzi is the worst bike ever, breaks every hundred feet with no dealers in sight.  So, yeah get rid of those junk bikes. : :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 08, 2019, 03:40:54 PM
URGENT UPDATE, not URGENT SERVICE:)
I’ve started the 1400 at least half a dozen times since my last post and no RED TRIANGLE appeared. I think my buddy down under fixed it  telepathically after I spoke with him the other morning ( there anyway) about running a check for codes. I’m just going to ride this big red mother like I stole it until something falls off or fluids start running out of every orifice, LOL:) hell it is a Guzzi anyway.

Thanks all for the responses, sorry if I started a fight:(
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: beetle on July 08, 2019, 03:45:19 PM
until something falls off or fluids start running out of every orifice, LOL:)


I hope you mean the bike!  :grin:
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: Ncdan on July 08, 2019, 03:52:13 PM

I hope you mean the bike!  :grin:
Lol, well... I guess that could go either way with me buddy:)
Title: Re: Help! Dreaded red triangle on 2014 1400 tourer
Post by: M0T0Geezer on July 08, 2019, 06:45:59 PM
Needless to say, listen to Pete.  :smiley: There was a run of bad oil pumps in 07, from memory around October and November.

Thanks for the heads up.  Yes, I know about bad oil pumps in early Norge "1200" bikes (2-Valvers).  Still, I see lots of bad oil pressure sensor posts here too.

The Oil Pressure lamp-on warnings are occasional (continual but not continuous).  It comes on every 2nd or 3rd cold start but always goes out in the same 1,000 feet from startup and never returns for a given ride.

I'll get the oil pump and the sensor replaced in a month or so.  Bound to cure the problem.  I'm inclined to blame the sensor 'cuz if there were truly little or no oil pressure  the engine should long ago have begun deep-knocking and burning oil.

'Geezer