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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: SmithSwede on July 07, 2019, 08:55:07 PM

Title: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: SmithSwede on July 07, 2019, 08:55:07 PM
Several people I’ve known and respected over the years have a lot of love for the old Norton.  I’ve never ridden one.   Now some of you Guzzi guys are picking a Norton as best all around bike. 

So what’s the deal?

I’m curious to hear from both the admirers and detractors.   

I’d probably never get one but am certainly willing to listen to people who think a certain bike is really special.

 
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 07, 2019, 09:03:13 PM
As far as classic Brit bikes go, it is one that you can ride like a modern bike; fast enough for the highway,  smooth with the rubber mounts for less fatigue, and for garage art, they are one of the best!  A well sorted Commando is a joy.

(https://i.postimg.cc/wBrGNRRn/863.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1hkQT5z)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pr1Ld1Cv/IMG-E3241.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/H8XgZzFv)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 07, 2019, 09:06:41 PM
 Peter Egan referred to his first one as "The Norton Contaminator Twin"

 Dusty
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: SmithSwede on July 07, 2019, 09:13:51 PM
Wow. True machine beauty. 
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Lannis on July 07, 2019, 09:20:42 PM
As far as classic Brit bikes go, it is one that you can ride like a modern bike; fast enough for the highway,  smooth with the rubber mounts for less fatigue, and for garage art, they are one of the best!  A well sorted Commando is a joy.

(https://i.postimg.cc/wBrGNRRn/863.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1hkQT5z)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pr1Ld1Cv/IMG-E3241.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/H8XgZzFv)

Not much to add to that.   All true.   I enjoy mine whenever I get out on it.   Mine's a '75 Interstate, so two disk brakes, electric start, automagic primary chain tensioner, 350 mile range.   Gets comments whenever I stop.

Lannis
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: BRG-BIRD on July 07, 2019, 09:44:12 PM
I do not own one but have friends with them, the exhaust note (among other things) is intoxicating
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Cal3 on July 07, 2019, 10:24:50 PM
They are great, all vintage bike lovers....need to try one at some point. I think they were the best bike/bike of the year for about 5 years straight from 68. That says something  :thumb: Lots of parts availability and performance parts now.....and Norton guyz are like Guzzi and BMW guyz, they ride their bikes!!!
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Max1000sp on July 07, 2019, 10:39:44 PM
It’s the only one of my earlier bikes, I consider buying again.
Though I will need to try one before spending money and time, as my memories are more than 30 years old.
But I remember great handling, light weight, brillant torque as in taking over at highway speed without changing gears. All other motorcycles from that area (that I tried) needed to go down a gear for acceleration.
Finally the style is sheer beauty.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: jumpmaster on July 07, 2019, 10:42:08 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/253H12B/IMG-1543.jpg) (https://ibb.co/253H12B)
As far as classic Brit bikes go, it is one that you can ride like a modern bike; fast enough for the highway,  smooth with the rubber mounts for less fatigue, and for garage art, they are one of the best!  A well sorted Commando is a joy.

I've had a 75 Commando since 1979. It's a dream to ride when it is running well.  Unfortunately, the periods during which it is running well don't seem to last all that long.

Pluses:  Very light weight for its size & engine capacity, excellent handling for its time period and even good by today's standards, &, at least with the single Mikuni set-up, feels at least as torquey as the loops.  Great sound, but most bikes can have a sexy sound with some fiddling with the mufflers.  Classic Brit bike styling, both in the Roadster & Interstate forms.  Great parts support both in the USA & in Britain.  Pretty good national and many very good local clubs for support.  Don't often see another one on the road when you are taking a ride - exclusivity is a plus in my book.

Minuses:  poor/weak electrics that need near constant attention, stock carbs wear out fairly quickly, engine vibration (which you don't really feel much because of the rubber isolation) takes a toll on fasteners, etc.  Mikuni carb conversion can take care of the carb issues, but you gain low end torque and lose top end performance, or at least so I am told.  There are several electronic ignition conversion kits that fit easily and work well - until the don't.  Every one of them I've used or heard about has detractors on reliability.  A "well sorted Commando..." is about as common as a unicorn, at least for extended periods. 

Compared to Guzzis, Nortons generally need an inordinate amount of TLC to keep them "well sorted," but most owners feel that it is worth it.  I occasionally hear about a Norton that has thousands of miles over many years with nary a problem and only regular scheduled maintenance, but I've never personally met one.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Daleroso on July 08, 2019, 12:00:25 AM
Is it absence makes the heart grow fonder or nostalgia?
Peter's Norton made it home from Montana. In a truck.
It's not how fast you ride, it's how far you can ride fast.
But yes, it does make for beautiful garage art.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: huub on July 08, 2019, 12:38:31 AM
i have owned two commando's
they have a addictive midrange , and slightly dubious handling if the isolastics are not spot on.
the biggest issue is reliability, the engine started out as a 500 cc, by the time it was a high compression 750 the engine was way past its sell by date.

mine destroyed main bearings , camshafts, bigends, gearbox cogs , gearbox bearings, clutches etc....at a alarming rate.
after a couple of years running the command, I bought a guzzi to use over the winter, it turned out to be dead reliabe in comparison, never looked back the commando is still in the back of the shed
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: pete roper on July 08, 2019, 01:52:33 AM
They aren't called 'Notrun' for nothing.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: fossil on July 08, 2019, 02:09:18 AM
To me the Commando is the archetype of a beautiful motorcycle. It sounds wonderful (especially with the Roadster cans), it handles well. It is light and nimble. And - the Commando is the reason I bought my V7 Stone in 2013. I wanted a new bike that is similar to the Commando but is modern in some aspects (maintenance, fuel injection, catalytic converters, ..). And that worked out well.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Tom on July 08, 2019, 02:11:45 AM
I like the looks of the John Player Specials.  I understand them.  I've ridden an Interstate, IIRC but I don't want to be responsible for the care and feeding of one.   :wink: :wink:
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: jumpmaster on July 08, 2019, 06:15:25 AM
And - the Commando is the reason I bought my V7 Stone in 2013. I wanted a new bike that is similar to the Commando but is modern in some aspects (maintenance, fuel injection, catalytic converters, ..). And that worked out well.

Yes, I forgot about that!  I bought my (used) Mille for exactly the same reason - when I test rode it, I loved the low-end grunt it had & thought it was very much like the Norton's.  It hasn't been entirely trouble-free and it isn't as nimble as the Norton, but I can  take 200-300 mile rides alone with a MUCH lower worry-quotient than I ever could on the Norton.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: blackcat on July 08, 2019, 06:33:00 AM
Mine has been apart for quite a few years, so it was a choir remembering how it all went back together.  It use to have a Boyer ignition, but I changed to a Pazon ignition as it takes less of a charge to get started, which it usually does in a couple of kicks. Replaced the old Amals with the Amal Premiers which are night and day compared to the old carbs, easy to adjust and great response.  So far, it doesn't leak any oil since I put it back together, but haven't really taken a long ride, there are some built in design problems of these early models that will likely produce some leaks. I'm Ok with that, after all it is a 52 year old bike.

I have another lined tank for riding as the above is just for display and will probably replace that tank with a metal one from either India or the expensive version from England, but getting one with the recess for the badge limits the options. It's either $350 or $800 plus paint.

Anyway, I have always enjoyed riding the bike and it's never left me stranded. 

(https://image.ibb.co/hmMpLV/IMG-1445.jpg)

It's a little bike compared to the Guzzis.
(https://i.ibb.co/YNrYzVR/48350-F65-FCBB-43-F2-BCF5-076-AEEC62961.jpg)


I'd love to have a production racer or even a copy but they are quite pricey. This one is owned by a collector who has two more racers.
(https://i.ibb.co/80YVmqM/56174505390-3-CEC5604-A5-A3-4751-97-B5-CA0628-EA936-F.jpg)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: blackcat on July 08, 2019, 06:36:04 AM
They are great, all vintage bike lovers....need to try one at some point. I think they were the best bike/bike of the year for about 5 years straight from 68. That says something  :thumb: Lots of parts availability and performance parts now.....and Norton guyz are like Guzzi and BMW guyz, they ride their bikes!!!

I only wish that Guzzi had a supplier like Andover Norton. The reproduction parts coming out of that company are really something.

www.andovernorton.c om
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: JohninVT on July 08, 2019, 07:39:47 AM
I had a 73' Interstate.  It sounded great with Dunstalls and I swapped out the carbs for the Mikuni conversion.  Vernier adjustment Isolastics made the handling decent.  They're wonderful toys and can keep up with modern traffic.  They have brakes a thousand times better than an old Eldorado so they're capable of being ridden much like a modern bike...except they're very much not a modern bike.  They tend to mark their spot with oil like a Labrador does with pee.  You have to go over them after every ride to tighten fasteners and look for leaks.  I really liked mine and I understand why so many people consider them one of the very best vintage bikes you might actually be able to ride all the time but I'd rather ride than wrench. 
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: larrys on July 08, 2019, 07:56:09 AM
I bought '73 Roadster when I lived in the UK. Used, with all Gus Kuhn cafe racer parts on it. It had a Combat engine which had already roasted the main bearings at 4K miles. Superblend (sp?) main bearings were the fix, then. Too much horsepower for an old, underengineered bottom end. It was a constant effort to keep the isolastic motor mounts in spec. My riding style probably had something to do with that. I brought it back to the States with me in '76.
Sold it a couple years later and never have wanted another.
Larry
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: rocker59 on July 08, 2019, 07:59:38 AM

some of you Guzzi guys are picking a Norton as best all around bike. 

So what’s the deal?

 

Only on a Guzzi forum full of eccentric old curmudgeons would a Norton Commando ever be mentioned as "best all around motorcycle" in 2019.

2019!  Yeah, they're beautiful vintage British standards, but they're curiosities rather than all around motorcycles in 2019.

Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Rough Edge racing on July 08, 2019, 08:04:04 AM
 I had a 74 850 Commando in the early 1980's...It was nice bike but for some reason I never warmed up to it and after a few years I sold it.. Part of the problem was the way it vibrated below 3000 rpm, much like Buells do...And it seemed to lack the solid mechanical feel of a Triumph or Bevel Drive Ducati I also had at that time.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Tusayan on July 08, 2019, 08:52:36 AM
I had a '70 Commando and have ridden many others.  I think the thing to bear in mind with them is that they utilize vintage bike technology, meaning pre WW II.  Everything Guzzi after the original Falcone style single is more technologically developed.  The single feature that makes the Commando feel more modern, the isolastic engine mounts, as a side effect makes the bike handle like it has worn swingarm bushings even when they are adjusted right.  An earlier featherbed framed Norton handles better.  The Commando's rear brake IIRC came out in 1927 and was obsolete decades before the bike was introduced.

Commandos are really beautiful but comparing them to anything Italian of their era (Late 60s to mid 70s) is comparing an antique with a more modern bike, and it shows when you ride one. 
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: blackcat on July 08, 2019, 09:07:07 AM
Only on a Guzzi forum full of eccentric old curmudgeons would a Norton Commando ever be mentioned as "best all around motorcycle" in 2019.

2019!  Yeah, they're beautiful vintage British standards, but they're curiosities rather than all around motorcycles in 2019.

Nope, I'd never consider my Norton best all around bike.

I do like the look of the new Atlas Ranger and would love to test ride one. 

(http://nortonmotorcycles.com/Ranger-Bot-right.jpg)

Claimed 84 bhp. 392lbs dry weight.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: GeneW on July 08, 2019, 09:09:26 AM
Much love for Norton's in this corner. Owned a 1968 Atlas for the last 44 years. The Atlas was the model Norton had before it developed the rubber mounted Commando series. I think the Nortons are much like the Moto Guzzi's in that it is a pretty reliable mount once the details are sorted out. Definitely not as durable as a Moto Guzzi but that is where the extensive parts network comes into play. There is a great support community out there for the Norton marque and has been for many years.

In 1980 I rode the Atlas from Milwaukee to LaHonda California to attend a Norton rally. The Atlas was stock except for a Mikuni carburetor to replace the worn out Amals. The bike survived the trip with no issues, I was a worn out puppy by the time I reached California. Never realized that most of the time the prevailing winds are out of the West.

I know it didn't happen without pictures so here you go.
(https://i.ibb.co/WkjV75y/1304m.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WkjV75y)


You get attached to the Norton in the same way many of you are attached to the Moto Guzzi models. I don't have a Moto Guzzi yet (still mulling over the purchase of a V7iii Classic) but the machine and the community have a very "Norton" feel. And it is a good feeling.

Gene
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: blackcat on July 08, 2019, 09:13:32 AM


You get attached to the Norton in the same way many of you are attached to the Moto Guzzi models. I don't have a Moto Guzzi yet (still mulling over the purchase of a V7iii Classic) but the machine and the community have a very "Norton" feel. And it is a good feeling.

Gene

Nice Atlas.

Yes, AccessNorton covers most of the bikes, from classic to the modern machines. Always helpful on that list.
https://www.accessnorton.com
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Tusayan on July 08, 2019, 09:18:49 AM
Very nice photo of the Atlas, you were tough to ride it so far!  My favorite Norton might be the Mercury, a slightly softened up Atlas.  I knew a guy who rode one for transport for decades but was eventually killed on it when a cop made a u-turn in front of him and he had only vintage brakes. 
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Rough Edge racing on July 08, 2019, 09:28:11 AM
I had a '70 Commando and have ridden many others.  I think the thing to bear in mind with them is that they utilize vintage bike technology, meaning pre WW II.  Everything Guzzi after the original Falcone style single is more technologically developed.  The single feature that makes the Commando feel more modern, the isolastic engine mounts, as a side effect makes the bike handle like it has worn swingarm bushings even when they are adjusted right.  An earlier featherbed framed Norton handles better.  The Commando's rear brake IIRC came out in 1927 and was obsolete decades before the bike was introduced.

Commandos are really beautiful but comparing them to anything Italian of their era (Late 60s to mid 70s) is comparing an antique with a more modern bike, and it shows when you ride one.

 Yes, I agree with you on the handling, I was afraid to say it and be thrown under the bus,,LOL...But It is subjective to some extent as Commandos have done well in racing.. And I assume the Isolastics were still in place...Tube frame Buells handle goos but still have a bit of the hinged in the middle feeling at times...
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: GeneW on July 08, 2019, 09:29:35 AM
Not tough, just young and stupid. There was no side stand on this Atlas so getting on and off the motorcycle involved swinging my leg over the lump on the passenger seat before putting it on or off  the center stand. Not something I could do today in my more "mature" physique.

The Atlas looks good in this picture as it is not a close up shot. The bike is pretty much original and it shows its scars. Still a fun ride.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Tusayan on July 08, 2019, 09:37:57 AM
Yes, I agree with you on the handling, I was afraid to say it and be thrown under the bus,,LOL...But It is subjective to some extent as Commandos have done well in racing.. And I assume the Isolastics were still in place...Tube frame Buells handle goos but still have a bit of the hinged in the middle feeling at times...

I'm told that race prepping a Commando included locking up the isolastics  :wink:

The world would be a lesser place without Commandos, many aspects of them are pretty nicely done (I like the shifter mechanism) but they are designed based on very, very old technology.  On the other hand is somebody wanted an similar older bike with a bit more up to date technology they could get a Laverda SF or Benelli.  If they wanted something much more modern they could get a brand new Enfield twin for $6700.  There's something for everybody.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: blackcat on July 08, 2019, 10:01:38 AM
(https://nycnorton.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/1007-hi-5.jpg)

My friend Kenny runs NYCNorton and he also races his bikes. 1007cc motor under 300lbs in a Seeley frame.
https://nycnorton.com/portfolio/1007/
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Sheepdog on July 08, 2019, 10:06:09 AM
I had a ‘74 Commando Interstate, also. It was a looker and drew crowds whenever I parked. Mikunis were once the answer for easy tuning and reliable running. However, Amal now offers Concentric carburetors in a “Premier” version. It deals with the idle mixture problems and wear that was the norm with the originals. Mine never stranded me...even on tour. The photo below is from 1980 and was taken at the Military Police motor pool at West Point (I was the armorer there).

(https://i.ibb.co/DVQnCS3/57-D44-D29-14-B1-43-DD-9-A16-7-A5-ACC2-DA0-E9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/smqrwML)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: guzzista on July 08, 2019, 10:21:22 AM
Asides from bevel Ducatis the other motorcycle addiction that lingered on for most of my life has been Commandos. Rode one at the tender young age of 16 and it was downhill from there. I have owned a few and worked on a bunch more. I could talk all day long about  Isolastics, layshaft bearings, Superblends failed and replaced, rewiring electrical systems , worn Amal slides and endless fettling......
At the end of the day it is an emotional thing, the way machine affect our lives and from that perspective  it comes down to the old biker ditty: If I have to explain it you wouldn't understand.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Lannis on July 08, 2019, 11:07:48 AM
I had a ‘74 Commando Interstate, also. It was a looker and drew crowds whenever I parked. Mikunis were once the answer for easy tuning and reliable running. However, Amal now offers Concentric carburetors in a “Premier” version. It deals with the idle mixture problems and wear that was the norm with the originals. Mine never stranded me...even on tour. The photo below is from 1980 and was taken at the Military Police motor pool at West Point (I was the armorer there).

(https://i.ibb.co/DVQnCS3/57-D44-D29-14-B1-43-DD-9-A16-7-A5-ACC2-DA0-E9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/smqrwML)

My Commando Interstate has never stranded me on any trip, long or short.   Rich Stone rides his Commando from Nebraska to North Carolina almost every spring and it gets him 1200 miles each way.  Don and Shirley Danmeier rode their Commando two up from California to Virginia and back for the last National Rally and it did fine for them, almost a month on the road.

It appears to me that most of the smack on Commandos is either of the nature of "I had one once and it was crap" - could be that it started out as crap from a previous owner beating on it.   Or just the normal anti British stuff "Bastard Stopped Again" "Notrun" "Warm beer Lucas Refrigerators" yada yada yada ad infinitum.

It's OK to just not like them on principle, or to say "I know someone who had one and it never seemed to run", but the fact is that if you take one and treat it like a 50-year-old bike needs to be treated in order to get you where you are going, replace the worn out parts, upgrade the parts that can be upgraded (mine is still using the original Amals and the original Zener diodes), and become part of a community of Norton folks the same as we do here for Guzzis,  it will allow you to have a lot of fun and go a long way.  They're a torquey, good handling, comfortable design.  I've gone a long way on them, and I know a lot of others who have too.

Lannis

Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Lannis on July 08, 2019, 11:12:05 AM
Part of the problem was the way it vibrated below 3000 rpm,

What were you doing down there anyway?   Just like a Guzzi, you don't operate a Norton (nor any other old Brit twin) below 3000 RPM.    Shouldn't take but a second or two to accelerate away from idle to up where it belongs .... ?   :violent1:

Lannis
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: blackcat on July 08, 2019, 11:18:44 AM


It appears to me that most of the smack on Commandos is either of the nature of "I had one once and it was crap" - could be that it started out as crap from a previous owner beating on it.   Or just the normal anti British stuff "Bastard Stopped Again" "Notrun" "Warm beer Lucas Refrigerators" yada yada yada ad infinitum.

It's OK to just not like them on principle, or to say "I know someone who had one and it never seemed to run", but the fact is that if you take one and treat it like a 50-year-old bike needs to be treated in order to get you where you are going, replace the worn out parts, upgrade the parts that can be upgraded (mine is still using the original Amals and the original Zener diodes), and become part of a community of Norton folks the same as we do here for Guzzis,  it will allow you to have a lot of fun and go a long way.  They're a torquey, good handling, comfortable design.  I've gone a long way on them, and I know a lot of others who have too.

Lannis

Yep. 

Lots of Norton's sold over the years and there is a very enthusiastic following which is why Andover can make brand new headlights,etc. of high quality because they know there is a large crowd out there who are willing to maintain their bikes.   Try finding brand new non-engine,transmission,final drive parts for any 90's,80's,70's Guzzi.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 08, 2019, 11:48:48 AM
I only wish that Guzzi had a supplier like Andover Norton. The reproduction parts coming out of that company are really something.

www.andovernorton.c om

Those are technically not reproduction parts from Andover. Andover is the parts company that split off from the factory when the factory closed. So they are technically still factory parts.

And the coverage for parts is insane. There are two bikes you can build from new parts these days, Vincent and Norton (the Vincent parts are managed buy the club and yes, it will set you back a small large fortune).
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: kirby1923 on July 08, 2019, 11:59:41 AM
I have a '81 CX100 and I have to say that I have never owned a moto that I have had to work on so frequently as in hours to ride  verses hours to fix!

I have had u joint problems transmission problems clutch problems instruments fail wheel bearings failed ignition failed carb problems  etc....you get my drift.

I'm a boomer and we grew up when these things were part of the experience of a motorbike.

But...
Every time it has got me home somehow, and every time I get back on it after a bit of time it does put a smile on my face 'cause it is primitive, raw machine, just straight two wheeler, motor wheels and...me..bugs on my teeth.

The old Brits and old HDs are the same, made during a time when you didn't expect to be coddled on your ride, just made to go see whats over the next hill.

:-)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 08, 2019, 12:00:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OEr1o3I.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YjiaYwY.jpg)

The Production Racer replica is currently undergoing an engine rebuild after throwing a rod. Not the fault of the bike, owner (me) made a modification that I shouldn't have.

The Interstate is currently in NC and will be coming home to Oregon. I bought that in the early 90s and aside from eating a cam is mostly original.

The only people who don't understand the Commando have never ridden a good one.

At least they don't have chrome bores.  :tongue: :shocked:
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: blackcat on July 08, 2019, 12:01:03 PM
Those are technically not reproduction parts from Andover. Andover is the parts company that split off from the factory when the factory closed. So they are technically still factory parts.

And the coverage for parts is insane. There are two bikes you can build from new parts these days, Vincent and Norton (the Vincent parts are managed buy the club and yes, it will set you back a small large fortune).

Yes & Yes.

Dave, nice bikes.



Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: JJ on July 08, 2019, 12:07:49 PM
As far as classic Brit bikes go, it is one that you can ride like a modern bike; fast enough for the highway,  smooth with the rubber mounts for less fatigue, and for garage art, they are one of the best!  A well sorted Commando is a joy.

(https://i.postimg.cc/wBrGNRRn/863.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1hkQT5z)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pr1Ld1Cv/IMG-E3241.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/H8XgZzFv)

Agree with Dave on all points. 

This is me in the early 1990's in Dallas, TX with my award winning 1975 Norton 850 Commando Interstate MK III (restored...) :thumb: :cool:  It's nickname was "The Beast" for many reasons...I miss that bike... :wink: :cool: :thumb:


(https://i.ibb.co/qWbxkG3/Screen-Shot-2019-07-08-at-10-05-40-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/qWbxkG3)

Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: kirby1923 on July 08, 2019, 12:08:58 PM
Drag Specialties...

They have two catalogs, one about 4" thick and the other close to 2' think(that one for the "old" stuff,
And you can take these catalogs and build a complete HD of just about any year from the Flat heads on up.

$$$$

:-)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Rough Edge racing on July 08, 2019, 12:43:17 PM
What were you doing down there anyway?   Just like a Guzzi, you don't operate a Norton (nor any other old Brit twin) below 3000 RPM.    Shouldn't take but a second or two to accelerate away from idle to up where it belongs .... ?   :violent1:

Lannis

  I don't like drilling through town at 3000 rpm in the lower gears...Riding solo on level ground even my 750 Triumph is content to cruise along at  as low as 2000 rpm in the lower gears .The bike needs to be tuned correctly and the rider needs some mechanical consideration..The lugging stories are over stated..The engine is not luggling if slightly opening the throttle gives engine response and no pinging....When I owned the Norton I was living in a city...the shaking was annoying in traffic... If I only used it in the country or on trips it may have been a different story...
 
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 08, 2019, 01:19:16 PM
  I don't like drilling through town at 3000 rpm in the lower gears...Riding solo on level ground even my 750 Triumph is content to cruise along at  as low as 2000 rpm in the lower gears .The bike needs to be tuned correctly and the rider needs some mechanical consideration..The lugging stories are over stated..The engine is not luggling if slightly opening the throttle gives engine response and no pinging....When I owned the Norton I was living in a city...the shaking was annoying in traffic... If I only used it in the country or on trips it may have been a different story...

The shaking is just part of the character, you're telling me your Guzzis don't shake from side to side? Or you've never notices the shaft drive?

A well set up Norton shakes like crazy at idle, sometimes you swear the front wheel is going to bounce off the ground. But then is smooths out like glass as you get going and you forget all about it. Until you stop again.  :grin:
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: larrys on July 08, 2019, 01:28:09 PM
I had a '70 Commando and have ridden many others.  I think the thing to bear in mind with them is that they utilize vintage bike technology, meaning pre WW II.   

So true. I went to the Norton factory in Wolverhampton and the Triumph factory in Meriden. It was like going back in time 100 years. No wonder that the British bike industry died. They were still using tooling from the 1920's...
Larry
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 08, 2019, 01:31:48 PM
Drag Specialties...

They have two catalogs, one about 4" thick and the other close to 2' think(that one for the "old" stuff,
And you can take these catalogs and build a complete HD of just about any year from the Flat heads on up.

$$$$

:-)

But it wouldn't be a Harley when you were done. It would have an S&S engine and probably not one Harley part on it. It would look and sound like a Harley but it would just be a replica.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: kirby1923 on July 08, 2019, 01:40:47 PM
True that, but allot of HDs have so many after market parts they are only "part " HD pun intended.

Same as a Norton that has a bunch of new manufactured stuff.

My point was that there are other machines that have a tremendous amount of after market  "new" parts.

I could rebuild my Pan with a Drag S cat. and sorta keep the engine  "original HD" and advertise it as such.

:-)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: nc43bsa on July 08, 2019, 09:33:57 PM
My 850 Commando was happiest when cruising at 3200-3400 rpm. 
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: LowRyter on July 08, 2019, 10:01:34 PM
Beautiful bikes, I would like to ride one.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 09, 2019, 09:55:24 AM
Beautiful bikes, I would like to ride one.

Where you at?
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: lrutt on July 09, 2019, 01:18:13 PM
My 73 850 has been a joy to own. Never a problem except for wet sumping if left sitting too long. As for carbs, the new Premier anodized slides are the secret there. Or just a whole new set of Premiers. Better than conversions. My only complaint is that it is a bit of work to start. Always on the first or second kick but it's a lot of motor to turn over. I have to put it on the center stand. I can see a CNW e-start conversion in my future when I can't kick the old gal any more.

As for performance, it will keep up with or walk my 06 Triumph Scrambler. No bike I've owned short of a big single has that low end pull like the Norton. Fantastic motor.

Mine was a barnfind about 20 years ago, only 4500 miles. Still sporting all the original electrics, paint, chrome, seat. I put new tires on, painted the frame, rebuilt the front brakes, and a new original clutch (barnet clutch sucked).


(https://i.ibb.co/J3jxPV0/73-NORTON-850-COMMANDO.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J3jxPV0)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Motormike on July 09, 2019, 02:18:54 PM
I think the Norton 850 Commando is the best looking motorcycle ever made.  But I've read enough Peter Egan to know better than to own one. If he couldn't keep one running I sure couldn't.  As one grizzled rider once told me, "Lots of motorcycles will take you places, I want to ride a motorcycle that will bring me back."
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 09, 2019, 03:44:15 PM
My 73 850 has been a joy to own. Never a problem except for wet sumping if left sitting too long. As for carbs, the new Premier anodized slides are the secret there. Or just a whole new set of Premiers. Better than conversions. My only complaint is that it is a bit of work to start. Always on the first or second kick but it's a lot of motor to turn over. I have to put it on the center stand. I can see a CNW e-start conversion in my future when I can't kick the old gal any more.

As for performance, it will keep up with or walk my 06 Triumph Scrambler. No bike I've owned short of a big single has that low end pull like the Norton. Fantastic motor.

Mine was a barnfind about 20 years ago, only 4500 miles. Still sporting all the original electrics, paint, chrome, seat. I put new tires on, painted the frame, rebuilt the front brakes, and a new original clutch (barnet clutch sucked).


(https://i.ibb.co/J3jxPV0/73-NORTON-850-COMMANDO.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J3jxPV0)

Treat it like a single, push the kickstarter until you have it just past TDC and then kick through. Tons of flywheel to assist from there. It pains me to see people jumping on that kickstarter. That is a horrible abuse on that gearbox.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 09, 2019, 03:49:03 PM
I think the Norton 850 Commando is the best looking motorcycle ever made.  But I've read enough Peter Egan to know better than to own one. If he couldn't keep one running I sure couldn't.  As one grizzled rider once told me, "Lots of motorcycles will take you places, I want to ride a motorcycle that will bring me back."

With all of these old bikes it use to be horrible to keep them going. You either hoped there was a club or a dealer that was not a cranky old fart (they all were) to help you.

The internet changed everything. Think of all the nuances you have learned here on Wild Guzzi. Think of all the people you can ask now through the forum.

Peter never had that. You would think he would have all the resources in the world but for some reason he didn't use them.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Gino on July 09, 2019, 04:15:02 PM
My wife and I have 7 Commandos between us, fantastic bikes , great fun, I did a 5000 mile road trip on one 10 years ago, a month ago we did a 1200 mile weekend trip to the very South of Ireland BUT, I always ride it like a grenade who's pin may fall out at any time and that's after over 40 years of ownership. Fantastic bikes but then again so are Guzzis
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 09, 2019, 04:35:12 PM
Most will know this video already, but just in case you haven't seen it do yourself a favor and watch it.  It is great.  The best Norton Commando video you will ever watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82iVMONcwss

"Norton rules!"
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 09, 2019, 04:40:50 PM
With all of these old bikes it use to be horrible to keep them going. You either hoped there was a club or a dealer that was not a cranky old fart (they all were) to help you.

The internet changed everything. Think of all the nuances you have learned here on Wild Guzzi. Think of all the people you can ask now through the forum.

Peter never had that. You would think he would have all the resources in the world but for some reason he didn't use them.

 The Contaminator Twin story was about an almost new Commando in 1975 (?) . When he wrote the story he insinuated it was an old motorbike , he revealed some years later it was a new bike .

 Dusty
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Tom on July 09, 2019, 04:56:23 PM
Good vid.  I enjoyed it.  :thumb:
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: guzzista on July 09, 2019, 05:01:19 PM
As much as I enjoy Mr Eagan as a writer I don't think  his column is /was a compendium of how to maintain a Norton, Ducati, etc or 4 wheel vehicle (add your favorite brand name) , but a fun, entertaining column with a  smattering of related facts that made it resounding to the audience.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Siamese on July 09, 2019, 05:14:48 PM
Back in the day....1972, that is, I was 18, and had a Honda CB750.  A real game changer of a motorcycle.  Powerful, well-sorted out, and RELIABLE.  There was no way I'd have traded it for a 750 Commando of the same vintage.  Amal carbs, English electronics, and oil stains under it wherever you park?  I don't think so. 

And, I would say my bike riding pals on their Japanese bikes felt strongly the same way.  In our circle, British bikes were for chumps.  You rode one because you got it cheap or you just didn't know better.   

BUT...if I was to pull my 750 Honda into a parking space at our local hangout, and if a black, Norton Commando was to show up, the Honda is where the guys might hang their jackets while they gathered around the Norton.  Go figure.  It's just a sexy beast. 

I had recently sold my Kawasaki Versys 650, and started riding a Yamaha XT250, and then I was foolish enough to visit the Barber Motorsports Museum in Alabama.  WOW!!!!!  All those vintage bikes under one roof.  After most of a day spent there, I had to get a new road bike with the vibe of the bikes from a previous generation.  Short list of bikes with the Triumph, Norton, etc. vibe were the new Triumph Bonneville, maybe the Kawasaki W800, and couple others not worth mentioning, and the MOTO GUZZI V7III.  I think I made the right choice with the V7III, as it has the vibe without the hassles. 
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 09, 2019, 05:22:17 PM
I was lucky to receive all the documents with my Commando.  It was purchased by a GI that was stationed in England.  He bought the bike in London at Elite Motors, which from what I understand was the largest Norton dealer in the world.  He then had it imported to the States at the end of his hitch. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/0QQdchJL/125.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06TwNWnf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/q7Qxcpgs/124.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06MSPRYj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RFD18G7q/126.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pp18vWFk)

Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 09, 2019, 05:51:19 PM
BUT...if I was to pull my 750 Honda into a parking space at our local hangout, and if a black, Norton Commando was to show up, the Honda is where the guys might hang their jackets while they gathered around the Norton.  Go figure.  It's just a sexy beast.

And so there it is. Usually the only bike that will upstage a Commando at a gathering is a Vincent.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: adaven on July 09, 2019, 05:53:01 PM
Treat it like a single, push the kickstarter until you have it just past TDC and then kick through. Tons of flywheel to assist from there. It pains me to see people jumping on that kickstarter. That is a horrible abuse on that gearbox.
This is the ticket. And if you go too hard it will punish you. The second most painful experience of my life was a hyperextension of my knee while starting my '71.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 09, 2019, 06:00:52 PM
Back in the day....1972, that is, I was 18, and had a Honda CB750.  A real game changer of a motorcycle.  Powerful, well-sorted out, and RELIABLE.


We have very similar experiences.   With the help of the bank I bought my Honda CB750 when I was 18 also. A brand new 1974!  I rode that thing as fast as possible everywhere I went.  I loved it!

One day I was parked and saw my first Commando in the wild.  The owner kicked it and it roared to life.  As he motored away I thought to myself that the Norton really sounds and looks like a proper motorbike!  I thought of getting a Commando ever since that day.

My mother took this photo on the first or second day of ownership.  I had been polishing the bike in the driveway.   I am still a bike polisher.  :)   It is OK to laugh at the cutoff Levis.  Many times I wished I had my jeans on for this photo, but it is what it is.  Besides we all wore cutoff back in that day.  It wasn't my riding attire though.  :)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fbGZWQfN/Scan-20190709-6.png) (https://postimg.cc/1grbMTdC)

Here is an action photo taken by my dear departed friend.  He was in a small convertible riding along side me.  The mud on the tires was from doing some dirt riding that day with a buddy on the back.  We were riding trails around his dad's 60 acres.

(https://i.postimg.cc/tCpqVyQR/Scan-20190709-3.png) (https://postimg.cc/pycbgwL3)

A post ride picture.

(https://i.postimg.cc/RVYN6nr5/honda-cb750.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qz8kWqMj)



   
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: bigbikerrick on July 09, 2019, 06:02:07 PM
Great video Dave!   :thumb: :thumb:
Rick.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: jdgretz on July 09, 2019, 06:11:11 PM
Nortons began my love of motorcycle travel, not just bombing around the local area.  There was an "old" couple (probably in their 50s or 60s) that took off on 2-up trips on their Norton Atlas.  I didn't know anybody at the time (mid-60s) that did that kind of thing on any bike, and Then Came Bronson was not yet on TV.

Yep, I blame Norton for my long distance riding affliction, and yes, I'd love to have one from the 60s or 70s.

jdg
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 09, 2019, 06:15:24 PM
Great video Dave!   :thumb: :thumb:
Rick.

I am going to watch it again tonight.  I figured out how to stream YouTube to my TV now.  Looking forward to watching on the big screen.  It never get's old. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82iVMONcwss
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: lrutt on July 10, 2019, 10:48:07 AM
Treat it like a single, push the kickstarter until you have it just past TDC and then kick through. Tons of flywheel to assist from there. It pains me to see people jumping on that kickstarter. That is a horrible abuse on that gearbox.

That's what I do, but it's not near as easy to start as my 650 Triumphs.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Rough Edge racing on July 10, 2019, 11:39:36 AM
That's what I do, but it's not near as easy to start as my 650 Triumphs.

 Yes, Triumph has a good kick starter, proper ratio and proper position...The Norton is obviously a larger engine but also not as nice to use kick starter.  Kicking a Norton with the side stand down can also cause a side stand failure if the rider doesn't balance the bike well..
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: guzzista on July 10, 2019, 11:54:18 AM
Had this on my last Commando. Definitely more comfortable to start the beast.
http://www.rgmmotors.co.uk/images/full/full_957.jpg
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Sheepdog on July 10, 2019, 04:38:05 PM
Clear the clutch, tickle the carbs, charge the cylinders, re-tickle, turn on the ignition, find TDC, and one kick with no throttle should start a well-tuned Commando...
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: nc43bsa on July 10, 2019, 10:50:30 PM
I never had trouble kick-starting my Commandos once I determined it was impossible using the BSA kick method, which was to flex the knee and straighten it with authority.

The Commandos required jumping up and pushing the lever down with a straightened knee.  I got it down so I could do it on the center stand or balanced on the wheels.  A previous owner apparently bent the side stand mount on the frame trying to kick-start it.

BTW, I amused some riders of other makes by standing on the kick-starter arm and riding it down, one engine revolution at a time.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Tusayan on July 10, 2019, 11:22:21 PM
750 Commando center stands were horrible but I think the 850s had a decent stand that worked well for kick starting.  One of the few things I thought worked really well on my Commando was kick starting, assuming the original ignition advance setup is gone and the replacement electronic is timed correctly.  One kick and it goes, in a delightfully analog (analogue?  :grin:) feeling process.

I was just copied on an email from an English guy who tours the Alps regularly on his 850 Interstate, starting in England with wife on the back.  That's great.  His has an upgraded electric starter.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Rough Edge racing on July 11, 2019, 05:14:34 AM
  Petrus Rocks on this forum bought a 75 Norton....It has a modified Sportster starter, cranks over quite nicely.....

   British riders tend to kick the engine with the side stand retracted...Triumph stands can also break or bend if a heavy rider puts too much weight to the left when kicking...
 Have trouble kicking over a Norton? It's all about properly adjusted carbs and technique..

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quEvJjIyRX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quEvJjIyRX0)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: radguzzi on July 11, 2019, 08:03:32 AM

I just finished a refresh of a '73 Norton 850 Mk I Commando for a riding friend here...  he had purshased the 850 as a passion buy, just liked it, paid a bit too much for it and then discovered just how much it needed to be really roadworthy.

The updates included the later model Iso Mounts from the Mk III and a bunch of stuff, crazy list-o-parts.   Bryan originally wanted to change the seat and tank to the Interstate items and then after finding out the condition of so many parts, the project ended up nearly a complete restoration. 

I posted a blog of sorts on the rebuild over on ADV Rider if you are so inclined.

https://advrider.com/f/threads/norton-850-commando-mk-i-refresh-roadster-to-interstate-sort-of.1368554/


Nice ride.

Best,
Rob


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/F7X7AE.jpg)





Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Sheepdog on July 11, 2019, 08:53:10 AM
Magnificent. Beautiful in Silver and I dig the fork gaiters...
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 11, 2019, 12:27:29 PM
  Petrus Rocks on this forum bought a 75 Norton....It has a modified Sportster starter, cranks over quite nicely.....

   British riders tend to kick the engine with the side stand retracted...Triumph stands can also break or bend if a heavy rider puts too much weight to the left when kicking...
 Have trouble kicking over a Norton? It's all about properly adjusted carbs and technique..

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quEvJjIyRX0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quEvJjIyRX0)

You don't have a well tuned Norton until you can start it with your hand. Granted the bike might be warm and my arms all spindly but I've done it.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: twowheeladdict on July 11, 2019, 04:41:55 PM

But I remember great handling, light weight, brillant torque as in taking over at highway speed without changing gears. All other motorcycles from that area (that I tried) needed to go down a gear for acceleration.
Finally the style is sheer beauty.

Personally I have grown tired of "lazy" riding.  I've had a string of overpowered motorcycles that could go from a crawl to hyper speed in top gear. 

I like bikes that are engaging and demand you to do a little work to ride them.

When you drive most automatic vehicles they downshift to pass but we just don't notice.  :)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Rough Edge racing on July 11, 2019, 05:51:56 PM
You don't have a well tuned Norton until you can start it with your hand. Granted the bike might be warm and my arms all spindly but I've done it.

 Video of you doing it or it never happened.... :laugh:.....
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 11, 2019, 06:22:00 PM
Video of you doing it or it never happened.... :laugh:.....

Challenge accepted.

You may need to wait a little bit.

(https://i.imgur.com/bRsv5ZH.jpg)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Rough Edge racing on July 11, 2019, 06:35:29 PM
Challenge accepted.

You may need to wait a little bit.

(https://i.imgur.com/bRsv5ZH.jpg)

 Ok... Be sure to post photos of the engine build.....
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 11, 2019, 08:38:09 PM
Ok... Be sure to post photos of the engine build.....

Here you go. Plenty of material here to keep you more than entertained. The sad thing is this thing would probably be running if I hadn’t spent so much time filming it all. Thanks to my buddy Mike for the documenting. The videos are shared across our YouTube channels but just follow the playlist.

https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/heart-transplant.25880/

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgDzKiI-i6nbw_53Ou_FzB65IfDxYQooY
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: guzzimatic on July 12, 2019, 10:22:56 AM
OK,here is the deal,I am the guy who said the Norton Commando was the best bike. It involves a range of factors,number one the fact that I bought my 1974 in 1975 after it sat on the dealers floor for over a year,I was 21 at the time and they dropped the price 800.00$ as they were going out of business...I knew this was my only chance to get a new Norton,my first big street bike! At it's first service the shop overfilled the oil,which puked the excess into the air filter,eventually clogging the filter,but showing no sign from the outside. My cousin did setup for a Brit bike shop and even he couldn't figure out why it wouldn't run right.I noticed the rubber bellows that connected the carbs to the air filter were rotted so took the air filter off to get at them,bike ran like a champ so no more dealer service...fast forward to 1978, I decided not to work a hot Nuke,Lasalle county Nuclear,I was an apprentice Boilermaker so that was my only choice,or ride my Norton to Lake Tahoe and visit my best friend from college.Stayed 5 years in heaven on earth,got married,had kids... Moved back to Illinois in 1983 to raise kids closer to families. We did Norton rallies for vacation,always in nice areas of the country,except 1993 when the Chicago Norton Owners thought it would be good to come to my home town,Havana,with 400 Nortons. It worked out OK,one of the best attended rallies at that time! In 1995 I came across the last Guzzi I would never think of owning,a 1976 Convert,stuck motor,brakes rusted to rotors but under all the crud a diamond in the rough! This started my Guzzi adventure,now with Norge, LeMans III,Convert,850T,project... The one true question is which bike do you roll out first if the shed is on fire? Norton!!! Why,you ask,it is a feeling you get at full chat,rhino like torque,voted most beautiful bike of the decade by Motorcyclist magazine! You always look back and smile as you walk away...
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 12, 2019, 12:34:30 PM
Wow swooshdave!   That's amazing documentation!

Great story Guzzimatic!
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: wirespokes on July 12, 2019, 05:23:43 PM
After reading Swoosh's thread, I don't know about owning a Norton. Sure didn't take much to loose oil pressure and cause a heap of damage.

On the other hand, a lot of guys seem to think they're rugged and dependable - even Swoosh.

Perhaps they're worth looking into.

You know, this thread reminds me of another that started me into Guzzis - the title was something like "if you had to choose between the airhead and the goose, which would you keep?"
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: LowRyter on July 12, 2019, 06:08:02 PM
here are some interesting Norton photos that I've taken.

This particular Norton can only be identified by its owner/builder in Tulsa

(https://g3.img-dpreview.com/792CAE6C117647AFBBC29B7DD185797D.jpg)

OTOH, this  Norton was not mentioned but is recognized as one of the most famous.

(https://g4.img-dpreview.com/5A84F0FC21C742789DD21A628CF06D3B.jpg)

(https://g4.img-dpreview.com/98CA85D553884DD78E0F2784B780613E.jpg)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 12, 2019, 06:19:13 PM


OTOH, this  Norton was not mentioned but is recognized as one of the most famous.

(https://g4.img-dpreview.com/5A84F0FC21C742789DD21A628CF06D3B.jpg)



The Manx Norton.  Truly the stuff dreams are made of!
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: krglorioso on July 12, 2019, 10:53:07 PM
When I got to age 80 and weighed a very un-Guzzisti-like 135#, I decided to sell the two Stone Touring models and go to a Suzuki enduro about 240# lighter.  The Norton is still a bit of a handful, but I will part with it only when my cold, dead hands can no longer grip the bars.

Ralph
(https://i.ibb.co/DftBsQD/IMG-0915.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DftBsQD)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 13, 2019, 12:30:31 AM
Wow swooshdave!   That's amazing documentation!

Great story Guzzimatic!

Right now the build is accelerating with new videos dropping several times a week. Be sure to subscribe!
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 13, 2019, 12:33:54 AM
After reading Swoosh's thread, I don't know about owning a Norton. Sure didn't take much to loose oil pressure and cause a heap of damage.

On the other hand, a lot of guys seem to think they're rugged and dependable - even Swoosh.

Perhaps they're worth looking into.

You know, this thread reminds me of another that started me into Guzzis - the title was something like "if you had to choose between the airhead and the goose, which would you keep?"

To be fair now that I really know what cause the oil loss it wasn't the fault of the bike. I put a later timing cover on and while I put the correct oil seal on no one told me that you had to also change the spigot on the oil pump or the seal would be loose. So it fell off when I refit the timing cover.

If I had just left the original timing cover on it there never would have been a problem.

And the answer to your other question is undoubtably the good. Unless you're boring, then the BMW.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: nc43bsa on July 13, 2019, 12:50:27 AM
here are some interesting Norton photos that I've taken.

This particular Norton can only be identified by its owner/builder in Tulsa

(https://g3.img-dpreview.com/792CAE6C117647AFBBC29B7DD185797D.jpg)

It looks like a custom ES2.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: wirespokes on July 13, 2019, 06:06:45 AM
I'm going to look at a 1972 Combat basket case today. A friend warns me the Combats are trouble. What do you say?

Even though I've known about Commandos since the mid 70s, I don't know that much about Nortons so looked them up on the web. Wiki told me a bit about them and that the Combat was a one-year-only machine.

Are they dependable with the superblends and various upgrades? Do they have to be ridden lightly to prevent grenading?

And what is a basket case worth with a nickle coated frame, and missing wiring harness, headlight,seat, front brake system, rear brake and carbs?
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: jas67 on July 13, 2019, 07:17:03 AM
I'm going to look at a 1972 Combat basket case today.

 :popcorn:

Looking forward to the build thread....  :evil:
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 13, 2019, 07:23:33 AM
I'm going to look at a 1972 Combat basket case today. A friend warns me the Combats are trouble. What do you say?

Even though I've known about Commandos since the mid 70s, I don't know that much about Nortons so looked them up on the web. Wiki told me a bit about them and that the Combat was a one-year-only machine.

Are they dependable with the superblends and various upgrades? Do they have to be ridden lightly to prevent grenading?

And what is a basket case worth with a nickle coated frame, and missing wiring harness, headlight,seat, front brake system, rear brake and carbs?

The Combat engine was a ticking bomb when new, but properly rebuilt will be as reliable as any of them. 

This very incomplete basket will end up costing at least an extra 50% over the price of a very well sorted unit by the time you are done, therefore you want to buy it on the cheap.  Does it have a title?   With title I would think $1000 would be about right.  No title - ask him to pay you to take it away and keep it for spare parts.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: wirespokes on July 13, 2019, 07:31:54 AM
Thanks, Dave. That's what a friend of mine recommended as well. As far as I know, it is titled, but we'll see. I figure it's worth a look.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 13, 2019, 07:33:27 AM
Thanks, Dave. That's what a friend of mine recommended as well. As far as I know, it is titled, but we'll see. I figure it's worth a look.

If it was close to me I would definitely check it out.  I am a sucker for sad sacks like these.  I never learn.   :grin:
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 13, 2019, 08:39:03 AM
If it was close to me I would definitely check it out.  I am a sucker for sad sacks like these.  I never learn.   :grin:

Here are the pictures for the basketcase. $1000 is mighty light as the engine alone would bring that.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0R5YHsSjYAuHS
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 13, 2019, 09:06:38 AM
Here are the pictures for the basketcase. $1000 is mighty light as the engine alone would bring that.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0R5YHsSjYAuHS

A bit better than I thought.  OK, I go 2K with title!   :laugh:
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 13, 2019, 09:41:32 AM
A bit better than I thought.  OK, I go 2K with title!   :laugh:

I think you’re right.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: wirespokes on July 13, 2019, 12:17:13 PM
That's assuming the engine is in good shape? Hopefully no rattles or clunks when turned.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 13, 2019, 12:41:13 PM
That's assuming the engine is in good shape? Hopefully no rattles or clunks when turned.

You will never know if the engine is in "good shape" until you disassemble and inspect.  I would be most interested in the overall condition of the cases.  Look for any cracks or broken lugs. 
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 13, 2019, 01:47:44 PM
You will never know if the engine is in "good shape" until you disassemble and inspect.  I would be most interested in the overall condition of the cases.  Look for any cracks or broken lugs.

Engine was clean. No broken fins or anything. I did not try to turn it over but you may not be able to unless you get the front sprocket on.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 13, 2019, 03:18:08 PM
Engine was clean. No broken fins or anything. I did not try to turn it over but you may not be able to unless you get the front sprocket on.

Did you drag it home?
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 13, 2019, 04:05:30 PM
Did you drag it home?

No, I left it for @wirespokes. I’ve got too many already.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: nc43bsa on July 13, 2019, 04:52:43 PM
I'm going to look at a 1972 Combat basket case today. A friend warns me the Combats are trouble. What do you say?

Are they dependable with the superblends and various upgrades? Do they have to be ridden lightly to prevent grenading?

IIRC, the Combat was largely responsible for the development of the Superblend bearings.  The combination of high compression and the long stroke 3-piece crank tortured the roller main bearings in ways the bearing manufacturers could not have imagined, much less recommended.

Replacing the pistons and the main bearings fixes the problem.

If you get into this, do yourself a favor and put a pair of modern Amal concentric carbs on it.  The other missing stuff is readily available.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: SmithSwede on July 13, 2019, 05:01:52 PM
Well, I’ve been learning a lot.  Never knew about “wet-sumping” before.  And now I’m learning about Superblend bearing with odd, barrel shaped rollers.   
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: wirespokes on July 13, 2019, 05:08:38 PM
I don't need to learn a whole new bike - I'm still wrapping my head around these older Guzzis.

I've got a friend who had a Commando in the mid 70s and traded it in on a new 90S. He's always missed that bike. Lately he's been through some health and life  issues (wouldn't prevent him from riding) that have left him apathetic about life. Ten years ago he restored five old airheads including two 90Ss and a 650 Triumph. They're gorgeous. So I figured a Commando project could light him up. We were going to look at it today together, but he bailed at the last moment. He figures the Combat is a ticking time bomb and would cost way more to build than just getting a nice one. But - you know - I don't see him spending the money for a nice one right now. I went alone to see the bike.

Kinda sad a whole bike can be reduced to two boxes, frame, tank and two wheels. But what's there looks nice.

The story is that a friend of the current owner died a year and a half ago and left it to her (signed title). He intended she get it free, but the estate didn't know that for some reason so she had to pay for it. He had two other nortons he'd restored and tore this one apart to restore. He'd nickel plated the frame and that's as far as it got. That was maybe three or four years ago. She says it ran fine before taking it apart. The other parts got lost in the shuffle of liquidating the estate and his relatives weren't bike people - so who knows where it all went. The other two nortons got sold off.

She's short on cash, caring for her elderly Alzheimer mother, and has some medical issues herself. She also just left an abusive boss, so money is tight.

I figured I'd be helping her out by getting it. She knows she could make many times more parting it out, but like me, can't stand the thought, and besides, money is needed now. If I take it to my friend's place and ask him to help me build it, perhaps it'll light a fire.

I don't need another project right now and don't really have the space, but it seems like the right thing to do. Besides, it was love at first sight seeing my friend's Commando back in 1976 - maybe it's time for a fling?

I told her I'd get it. Have to go back with the money and the truck sometime this weekend. Funny how my weekends get rearranged for me.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 13, 2019, 07:25:40 PM
I don't need to learn a whole new bike - I'm still wrapping my head around these older Guzzis.

I've got a friend who had a Commando in the mid 70s and traded it in on a new 90S. He's always missed that bike. Lately he's been through some health and life  issues (wouldn't prevent him from riding) that have left him apathetic about life. Ten years ago he restored five old airheads including two 90Ss and a 650 Triumph. They're gorgeous. So I figured a Commando project could light him up. We were going to look at it today together, but he bailed at the last moment. He figures the Combat is a ticking time bomb and would cost way more to build than just getting a nice one. But - you know - I don't see him spending the money for a nice one right now. I went alone to see the bike.

Kinda sad a whole bike can be reduced to two boxes, frame, tank and two wheels. But what's there looks nice.

The story is that a friend of the current owner died a year and a half ago and left it to her (signed title). He intended she get it free, but the estate didn't know that for some reason so she had to pay for it. He had two other nortons he'd restored and tore this one apart to restore. He'd nickel plated the frame and that's as far as it got. That was maybe three or four years ago. She says it ran fine before taking it apart. The other parts got lost in the shuffle of liquidating the estate and his relatives weren't bike people - so who knows where it all went. The other two nortons got sold off.

She's short on cash, caring for her elderly Alzheimer mother, and has some medical issues herself. She also just left an abusive boss, so money is tight.

I figured I'd be helping her out by getting it. She knows she could make many times more parting it out, but like me, can't stand the thought, and besides, money is needed now. If I take it to my friend's place and ask him to help me build it, perhaps it'll light a fire.

I don't need another project right now and don't really have the space, but it seems like the right thing to do. Besides, it was love at first sight seeing my friend's Commando back in 1976 - maybe it's time for a fling?

I told her I'd get it. Have to go back with the money and the truck sometime this weekend. Funny how my weekends get rearranged for me.

Couple minor corrections. The frame was nickel and the plan for the restoration was to remove the nickel and paint the frame. Secondly there is zero reason to fear a Combat. If you don’t like it or are scared then just put a plate under the barrel to reduce the compression and put in a standard cam plus the 30mm carbs. That puts it 100% back to original spec. What you don’t want is standard cam and high compression.

If your friend bails I have a buyer lined up.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: wirespokes on July 13, 2019, 10:08:34 PM
Thanks, swoosh. No, I already told her I'd get it.

She said she rode a Combat for ten years - her sole transport. And she said she rode it hard. Never had anything happen that wasn't easily fixed. I just need to get over there to pick it up.

So you're brother is returning your old Commando?  What year is it. Pix?
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 13, 2019, 11:51:24 PM
Thanks, swoosh. No, I already told her I'd get it.

She said she rode a Combat for ten years - her sole transport. And she said she rode it hard. Never had anything happen that wasn't easily fixed. I just need to get over there to pick it up.

So you're brother is returning your old Commando?  What year is it. Pix?

What I mean is that if your friend doesn’t want it and you decide it’s too much to take on you’ve got an out.

Pictures are earlier in this thread. It’s the black Interstate. 1973 850.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: wirespokes on July 14, 2019, 01:04:05 AM
Thanks, swoosh. I appreciate your thinking of me!

Any parts you'd like to contribute to the build? It's missing: seat, wiring, lights, caliper and master, rear brake and carbs.

I was wondering about the nickel plating, why he plated it if he was restoring it. Thanks for answering that one before I could ask.  Seems there should be a way to etch the nickel and paint over it. But in the meantime, we'll build it as is.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 14, 2019, 10:02:13 AM
Thanks, swoosh. I appreciate your thinking of me!

Any parts you'd like to contribute to the build? It's missing: seat, wiring, lights, caliper and master, rear brake and carbs.

I was wondering about the nickel plating, why he plated it if he was restoring it. Thanks for answering that one before I could ask.  Seems there should be a way to etch the nickel and paint over it. But in the meantime, we'll build it as is.

All those parts are readily available new or used. I’m afraid I need to hold onto my stash as I have one more bike I might build.

Join the Oregon Norton club and enjoy 10% off from Old Britts. Or order from Andover Norton in England. They are the original spare parts supplier for the Factory and still going. They also supply the parts to Old Britts.
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Cal3 on July 14, 2019, 10:19:51 AM
Here is one in you want to try one....on the west coast (its mine)
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/d/cypress-1970-norton-commando-fastback/6928760095.html

Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 14, 2019, 10:36:03 AM
Here is one in you want to try one....on the west coast (its mine)
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/d/cypress-1970-norton-commando-fastback/6928760095.html

That is a sweet looking Norton!!

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZRbGCGFQ/Norton-Fastback.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9Q7QDQP)
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: Cal3 on July 15, 2019, 09:43:58 AM
Thanx......would like to trade it for a Griso!!
Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: PeteS on July 15, 2019, 10:21:15 AM
Thanks, swoosh. No, I already told her I'd get it.

She said she rode a Combat for ten years - her sole transport. And she said she rode it hard. Never had anything happen that wasn't easily fixed. I just need to get over there to pick it up.

So you're brother is returning your old Commando?  What year is it. Pix?

The reason it didn't blow up was because she rode it hard. Lugging Combats is what caused them to grenade contrary to legend. I put 10:1 Powermax pistons in my '71 along with the standard cam which gave a even higher effective CR compared to a Combat. This before Superblends were installed. Never blew up, then it was rarely below 4K RPMs.
As for nickel plating, many of the specials of the era like the Rickmans were nickel plated. I nickel plated mine back in the day. Later had it chrome plated when the nickel started to turn green. As for painting it, just used self etching primer first, then paint or powder coat.
Nickel frame before it was chrome plated.


(https://i.ibb.co/r0kjKMc/nortrite.gif) (https://ibb.co/r0kjKMc)


(https://i.ibb.co/QdQ4bcP/NORTLEFT.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QdQ4bcP)


Pete

Title: Re: What’s the deal with Norton Commando?
Post by: swooshdave on July 15, 2019, 11:32:07 AM
The reason it didn't blow up was because she rode it hard. Lugging Combats is what caused them to grenade contrary to legend. I put 10:1 Powermax pistons in my '71 along with the standard cam which gave a even higher effective CR compared to a Combat. This before Superblends were installed. Never blew up, then it was rarely below 4K RPMs.
As for nickel plating, many of the specials of the era like the Rickmans were nickel plated. I nickel plated mine back in the day. Later had it chrome plated when the nickel started to turn green. As for painting it, just used self etching primer first, then paint or powder coat.
Nickel frame before it was chrome plated.


(https://i.ibb.co/r0kjKMc/nortrite.gif) (https://ibb.co/r0kjKMc)


(https://i.ibb.co/QdQ4bcP/NORTLEFT.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QdQ4bcP)


Pete

There are theories that it wasn't the bearings at all. It was the oiling. They moved the pickup in 72 to the front of the crankcase. Once the crank got spinning, easy to do with the Combat cam, the oil was all flung to be back, potentially causing low oil pressure. You'll notice that in 73 the oiling got revised again back to the 71 spec... and although the bearings went to Superblends you never heard any more problems. Hmmm....