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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: drburt on July 27, 2019, 06:41:10 PM
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Peace signs, manual ones, the kind you "flip" with your fingers.
They change their meaning depending on the point of view of the receiver.
At the wrong angle, it looks like you're flipping someone the bird.
This can result in aggression of the receiver even though you were acknowledging them or thanking them for something.
One Christmas morning I pulled my car into a convenience store (Toot-N-Totum in my area).
Two guys in a pickup, were backing out of a parking space, but stopped to let me park easily beside them.
Nice gesture on their part.
I gave them the peace sign and mouthed "thank you".
The driver rolls down his window and yells, "what's your problem?".
I had no clue what HIS problem was and asked him what he was talking about.
He scowled, "you flipped me off!!". I explained that I was thanking him and that it was a peace sign.
My explanation seemed to be accepted.
Couple of weeks ago I was riding my Virago around town and passed a guy on his Harley that had been stopped at a red light and hadn't got going yet when the light turned green.
I flipped him the peace sign with my right hand as I rode by on his left.
He CHASED me to the next red light and pulled up BESIDE me IN MY LANE at the light.
He never looked at me as he sat beside me IN MY LANE.
Light turned green, we rode off, he turned right at the next light, never acknowledging me.
I don't know why all this took place.
I know some people don't like being passed (especially on a rice burner, but he had been stopped at a light).
I don't know if it was a case of mistaken identity of a peace sign being "the bird".
So I have a question -
What do you think of people you don't know that pull up beside you IN YOUR LANE at a stop when you're both on bikes?
Is this a sign of aggression?
Thanks,
Brent
P.S. No matter what, I guess I need to change the angle of my peace signs.
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I suggest a wave or thumbs-up. I haven't seen a "peace" sign since the 70s.
And if the peace sign has the back of the hand toward the recipient...
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Very serious issue if you happened to be in the UK. Two fingers in V with your palm facing the other person would mean Victory. Turn your hand around so the back side is facing the other person and it is equivalent to a middle finger flip off. Came from the medieval period. Archers captured in war would have their fingers lopped off to prevent them from returning to battle. Flashing those two still-active fingers to your enemy is a serious affront. Maybe your Tex buddy was from London????
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Wow, Patrick...that explains a lot, thank you.
Be well,
DougG
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I've had good results with an open handed wave if I do anything. Hopefully there are not so many negative things with that.
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I just wave.
Peace signs, thumbs up, index finger up ... too many chances for misinterpretation or not seeing what you thought you saw.
Lannis
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I’ve had guys pull up next to me a couple times, I don’t like it, feels like an invasion of personal space, not to mention it’s illegal.
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Yeah, full handed friendly wave. Hard to believe the two finger peace can be misunderstood but I guess like you said, viewing angle might make a difference. The OK sign can be misunderstood as a__hole is some cultures so I never use it.
-AJ
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Sorry, been flashing peace signs for 40+ years, and still do on my bike. In the car, I normally wave because I can't be sure BOTH fingers can be seen clearly in the car. So far, no misunderstandings that I have been made aware of.
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That happens to me pretty frequently on my busy commute. If there's another bike nearby they often pull up right next to me at stoplights. I always thought of it as a friendly, kindred spirit type of thing. Usually accompanied by some sort of acknowledgement or gesture. There's plenty of room in the lane for more than just my bike.
I would probably retire the peace sign and just go with a normal wave or that point at the ground thing. To me a peace sign comes across as obnoxious- like you're telling me I need to relax or something. I can see how it was misconstrued.
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I never hesitate to pull up next to someone at a light and say hi. That is, as long as there's room.
Did someone really say illegal? Cue facepalm.
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Proper use of the V sign.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8JyDl9FtWI
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I never hesitate to pull up next to someone at a light and say hi. That is, as long as there's room.
I think it's being pushy. Brings out the curmudgeon in me. I always occupy the middle of the lane at a stop sign or stoplight to discourage that. YMMV.
Larry
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I think it's being pushy. Brings out the curmudgeon in me. I always occupy the middle of the lane at a stop sign or stoplight to discourage that. YMMV.
Larry
Sitting right in the spot where 4 wheeled vehicles have deposited oil doesn't seem to be a good plan . In fact , if you need to move unexpectedly , you will just get wheel spin .
Dusty
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I give 3 fingers in a “W”. Has many meanings.
T4
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It’s illegal in IL for two vehicles to occupy the same space within a lane. Your not supposed to ride two abreast for obvious safety reasons as well. Now it’s not enforced sitting in traffic an such, I’m just letting the world know, cause that’s how I roll. :cool:
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It’s illegal in IL for two vehicles to occupy the same space within a lane. Your not supposed to ride two abreast for obvious safety reasons as well. Now it’s not enforced sitting in traffic an such, I’m just letting the world know, cause that’s how I roll. :cool:
Yep, it's nice to know when your breaking the law.!
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I think it's being pushy. Brings out the curmudgeon in me. I always occupy the middle of the lane at a stop sign or stoplight to discourage that. YMMV.
Larry
We had a guy in the local Okie Guzzi crew who insisted in giving the "Power Fist" to every approaching rider. :embarrassed: I imagine that is viewed as some kinda cultural appropriation in todays weak kneed world. :grin: I don't mind if a good natured rider slips up at a light. I hate it when some snobby bad arse with no mufflers does it. I don't want to be viewed as part of their schtick. I let them :wink: get a good long lead, then hold back at the next stop.
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It's also illegal to go 3 mph over the speed limit or cross not at a crosswalk, or grab your neighbor's mail from their box and walk it up to their door... But those would be stupid reasons not to do those things under the right circumstances.
I think it's being pushy. Brings out the curmudgeon in me. I always occupy the middle of the lane at a stop sign or stoplight to discourage that. YMMV.
Larry
And I would read that as not interested in saying hi and stop behind you.
But if you were in the right or left thirds I'd say hi, and when the light changed I'd wait for you then start out behind you.
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It's also illegal to go 3 mph over the speed limit or cross not at a crosswalk, or grab your neighbor's mail from their box and walk it up to their door... But those would be stupid reasons not to do those things under the right circumstances.
And I would read that as not interested in staying hi and stop behind you.
But if you were in the right or left thirds I'd say hi, and when the light changed I'd wait for you then start out behind you.
I think I hear what you are saying Kev is, the law is a collections of instructions that must be applied with a good dose of common sense to be effective 👍
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when riding I prefer the "hang loose dropped down". Seen it in Hawaii. It's reverence to a respected fellow that lost his fingers on a pineapple plantation. It's unique, respected and generally acknowledged.
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when riding I prefer the "hang loose dropped down". Seen it in Hawaii. It's reverence to a respected fellow that lost his fingers on a pineapple plantation. It's unique, respected and generally acknowledged.
(https://i.ibb.co/1Q5SSr2/shaka-pizza.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1Q5SSr2)
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The driver rolls down his window ....
Another real anachronism in the making, like "dialing" a phone or hitting "return" on a keyboard .... !
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(https://i.ibb.co/1Q5SSr2/shaka-pizza.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1Q5SSr2)
not pointed down.
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Hand signals... So much variation. When passing another rider, I generally give a sideways V or shaka (Hawaiian hang loose) palm facing. Back of the hand looks too much like your flipping off.
I don't pull up next to or like it when someone pulls up next to me unless I know them and I'm riding with them. Maybe it's because I grew up in New York City but anytime someone I don't know pulls up alongside me I'm expecting to get shot :-)
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I don't pull up next to or like it when someone pulls up next to me unless I know them and I'm riding with them. Maybe it's because I grew up in New York City but anytime someone I don't know pulls up alongside me I'm expecting to get shot :-)
Funny how two people from NYC (born in Manhattan and raised between there, Queens, and the island) see things differently.
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Funny how two people from NYC (born in Manhattan and raised between there, Queens, and the island) see things differently.
I grew up in NJ within sight of the NYC skyline....We all thought no one in NYC had any sort of "normal thinking" :grin:
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I grew up in NJ within sight of the NYC skyline....We all thought no one in NYC had any sort of "normal thinking" :grin:
I always just thought Jersey was where we sent our garbage. :evil:
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Amazing how it works if you pull up next to someone at a traffic light, give them a nod and a thumbs up after pointing to a mod they have made on their bike, or just their bike in general. Almost all riders like to think others are accepting of their bikes and mods. Being friendly is a universal thing, I think.
Now if you pull up next to someone and won't even acknowledge their existence, that's something different.
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I always just thought Jersey was where we sent our garbage. :evil:
Oh, I thought NYC loaded it on barges and dumped it off shore :wink:.....
Went to the City often for entertainment or food.Things you can oly get in NYC...Usually took the Tubes from Newark so we didn't have to deal with parking..Never had any problems
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Sounds like you encountered a couple douchecanoes. I say keep flashing the peace sign (aka "V for victory" palm of hand directed toward recipient) as often and to whomever you choose. Regarding the two-up in a lane thing, yes, that's odd. If someone pulled up next to me, I'd assume that he intends to communicate something: blinker is on, taillight is out, how do I get to State street? etc. Or, I guess, that he's Kevin. Ha!
Nate
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:boozing:
I wonder if it's a regional thing. HUH, who figured Yankees from NY, PA, NJ etc would be the friendly ones?!? :laugh:
I've literally done it for decades without a second of hesitation if there was obviously room and I don't think I could count the times I didn't get a nod, wave, or hello on one hand.
But then again, I almost always ride with an open face helmet, the rider sees me pull up with a big booger-eating grin, and I always say something like:
Hey
What's Up
How's it Going
Man it's a nice day
Great bike
Cool _______________
Wow life is good
Hola
or the like.
And it's always followed by something when the light changes like
Have a good one
Shiny side up
Rubber side down
Take care
Have fun
or just good old:
RIDE SAFE
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"I wonder if it's a regional thing."
OK...Here's an observation:
I split my time riding between upstate NY and western NC.
I used to flash my high beams (to announce my presence and position), when approaching a car coming from the right or left and poised to turn into or across my lane. In one of those communities it apparently means "HERE I AM, SEE ME...DON'T DO IT", in the other community it means "HELP YOURSELF AND PLEASE MAKE YOUR TURN". I'll let you decide which one is which. It took me a couple of "HOLY CRAP" moments to figure it out. I don't flash my high beams anymore, I simply assume the worst.
My point is...yes, it's regional.
Be well,
DougG
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Great example...
Where I grew up it was "go ahead and turn".
But I've never trusted it as being universal.
Kinda like the helmet tap for a cop ahead.
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Sitting right in the spot where 4 wheeled vehicles have deposited oil doesn't seem to be a good plan . In fact , if you need to move unexpectedly , you will just get wheel spin .
Dusty
Exactly. And you may not have an escape path from a late braking cage
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Now if you pull up next to someone and won't even acknowledge their existence, that's something different.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR1gPDiqoIAq5CXJMYaESbFQgJMapufn7jHOy0zPOLMZkSSy_mQ)
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I was down in the Ozarks boondocks Saturday at a crossroad havin' a drink of H2o, and a harley dude came flyin' around the corner, so I flipped him a peace sign just to see if he'd pull over and give me an ass kickin'. He nearly locked 'em up so he could ask if everything was OK. They're not all jerks. :grin:
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I do the occasional peace sign if a driver has been courteous.
I do NOT want anyone in my lane. At a stop light, or otherwise. The light changes, and then I have a stranger whose sanity and riding ability are unknown to me pulling away from the light at the same time as me in MY lane. And yes, it's MY lane.
More and more, it seems that drivers of cars are unable to stay in their lane. As soon as they have drifted out of their lane enough to have two tires on the centerline, how do I know if they're going to continue or correct themselves? Pay attention, and stick to your own lane, PLEASE. I know a place where you can stick your cellphone where you'll have hands free operation.
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I was down in the Ozarks boondocks Saturday at a crossroad havin' a drink of H2o, and a harley dude came flyin' around the corner, so I flipped him a peace sign just to see if he'd pull over and give me an ass kickin'. He nearly locked 'em up so he could ask if everything was OK. They're not all jerks. :grin:
The Harley riders up here are generally a lot less friendly if you're wearing a helmet and/or not riding a hog. One of my favorite stories about that... http://smilesfromnowherre.blogspot.com/2019/07/almost-triumph.html
As for the peace sign, I'd guess it's misinterpreted cause younger folks just aren't familiar with it. While the symbol probably originated in the '60's with the antiwar movement in England, when it spread to the US it was more a symbol of the"counterculture" long haired hippies. It was popular in the 70's for bikers, I saw it all the time when I lived in the midwest, but it seemed to disappear in the '80's at least in Alaska. Now a days, I haven't seen it much, if at all, I suspect if I flashed it to someone, they'd just be confused. So I usually just give half a wave, palm forward, from the wrist. Hard to confuse that with anything else!
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I was down in the Ozarks boondocks Saturday at a crossroad havin' a drink of H2o, and a harley dude came flyin' around the corner, so I flipped him a peace sign just to see if he'd pull over and give me an ass kickin'. He nearly locked 'em up so he could ask if everything was OK. They're not all jerks. :grin:
Glad you clarified that part about Harley riders not being all jerks as when I rode Harley’s I use to remind my buddies that all Guzzi riders were not all jerks. Just making a point:)
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In the summer of 71 I was hitching west out of Flagstaff. A group of about twenty bikes came by, heading east. Every rider flipped me the peace sign. Happy days.
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Glad you clarified that part about Harley riders not being all jerks as when I rode Harley’s I use to remind my buddies that all Guzzi riders were all jerks. Just making a point:)
Anyone can be perceived as a "jerk" it's really hard to tell from a few seconds of interaction. First impressions are not always taken right.
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I do NOT want anyone in my lane. At a stop light, or otherwise. The light changes, and then I have a stranger whose sanity and riding ability are unknown to me pulling away from the light at the same time as me in MY lane. And yes, it's MY lane.
Well, that makes sense.
I mean if either of those things are in question the ONE PLACE you really want that person is operating a vehicle on the road directly BEHIND YOUR MOTORCYCLE.
< / SARCASM >
:boozing:
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I always just thought Jersey was where we sent our garbage. :evil:
Is Staten Island part of NJ now?
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Possibilities of misunderstandings, likelihood of misperceptions, cultural differences, personality differences ....
... I think I'm just going to keep my hands to myself, concentrate on riding my motorcycle, and save all the hail-fellow-well-met stuff for when we're off the bikes in a motel parking lot or a mountain overlook .... maybe not the most happy-go-lucky, cheery way to go, but it won't backfire ....
Lannis
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Ha ha Lannis "Just smile and wave boys, just smile and wave"
Is Staten Island part of NJ now?
Ha ha, good point, but I'm not sure anyone wants to claim that anymore...
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Anyone can be perceived as a "jerk" it's really hard to tell from a few seconds of interaction. First impressions are not always taken right.
I’m glad I read that again, on that last line I meant to say, I use to tell my buddies that NOT all Guzzi riders were all jerks. Funny how just one little word changes the total meaning of ones thoughts.
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In the summer of 71 I was hitching west out of Flagstaff. A group of about twenty bikes came by, heading east. Every rider flipped me the peace sign. Happy days.
[Mr. Pootle], I logged in just to say that I MISS hitchhiking. Good times indeed. Perhaps that's a thread in itself ...
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As for the peace sign, I'd guess it's misinterpreted cause younger folks just aren't familiar with it. While the symbol probably originated in the '60's with the antiwar movement in England, when it spread to the US it was more a symbol of the"counterculture" long haired hippies.
Earlier version of the sign
(https://i.ibb.co/McwVCCF/A42-B8-A9-C-5138-44-FC-8-CAF-85039999-FAAE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/McwVCCF)
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Earlier version of the sign
(https://i.ibb.co/McwVCCF/A42-B8-A9-C-5138-44-FC-8-CAF-85039999-FAAE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/McwVCCF)
Well I suspect the '70's hippie bikers who flashed the peace sign weren't thinking of Winston!
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Well I suspect the '70's hippie bikers who flashed the peace sign weren't thinking of Winston!
Not a "Peace" sign in the 40's. Winston was saying "V for victory".
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Most everbody on bikes around here wave at each other in passing. Left hand down and outspread fingers. Notable exceptions; 1%'ers riding in groups, Gold Thing guys, color coordinated Beemer guys, and punks wearing wife beaters and shorts on stripped sport bikes.
Larry
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I remember not too awful long ago, people didn't get offended by every little thing they didn't agree with. Now, it seems like people get up every morning and ask themselves..."What can I get offended by and boycott today?".
Just my observation.
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I remember not too awful long ago, people didn't get offended by every little thing they didn't agree with. Now, it seems like people get up every morning and ask themselves..."What can I get offended by and boycott today?".
Just my observation.
Truer words were never spoken. It sure gets old doesn't it??
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Not a "Peace" sign in the 40's. Winston was saying "V for victory".
And so did Nixon when he resigned. Not sure what any of that has to do with bikers giving the peace sign.
(https://i.ibb.co/nC0Wffq/Unknown.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nC0Wffq)
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[Mr. Pootle], I logged in just to say that I MISS hitchhiking. Good times indeed. Perhaps that's a thread in itself ...
I don't know ... such a thread would get into "social issues" at warp speed as soon as anyone mentioned the reasons why you used to be able to pick up hitchhikers pretty safely, and you can't anymore.
I did it when I had to, but I never liked it. I got picked up by some weird people. Good stories to tell, but I wouldn't want to do it again.
Lannis
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And so did Nixon when he resigned. Not sure what any of that has to do with bikers giving the peace sign.
(https://i.ibb.co/nC0Wffq/Unknown.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nC0Wffq)
“As for the peace sign, I'd guess it's misinterpreted cause younger folks just aren't familiar with it. While the symbol probably originated in the '60's with the antiwar movement in England,”
I was simply pointing out that the ‘symbol’ didn’t start as a hippie thing. Sort of like a 🌈.
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I was a teen in the 60’s when it started and it was the “hippies” or flower children of that era.
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OK here's my personal take on the peace sign. I am a Vietnam vet and when I returned from there, when people flashed it to me in that era I kind of took it as an insult to my service and those that didn't return. Again this was in that particular time and place, things have changed over time to make it more of a universal good gesture. I can now accept how people use it for a lot of reasons, it's OK now for me. But I still never us it, just can't bring myself to do it. Just an old curmudgeon I guess.