Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: shiskowd on August 12, 2019, 09:54:42 PM
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Hello - first post to this forum and newby to Guzzi restoration. Considering purchasing the bike in this add below for a restoration project.
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1443654240&requestSource=b (https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1443654240&requestSource=b)
The seller suggests the last digit in the odometer is for tenth's of a mile which would suggest on 4,400 miles on a 45 year old bike. Everything add I've seen for similar bikes indicates the odometer is for full miles. Am I correct?
So if the bike does have 44K miles on it, anything that would suggest I should look elsewhere? I haven't connected with the seller yet but wanted to be armed with some questions from those knowledgeable. I understand that this will be a money pit to some degree, just looking for a reliable classic bike I can enjoy for many years.
Thanks!
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That bike has got 44,000 on the clock. Looks pretty complete and tidy'ish but the T was a transition model and would benefit from nikasil bores,extra disc on the front and an oil filter conversion if that hasn't been done.A bike of that age will also quite easily become a money pit but a very enjoyable one!
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Agree, that bike has 44k not 4.4k. The odometer does not have a tenths wheel. The price is high by 1 to 2k for a bike that will need much work to make roadworthy.
Count on a set of these cylinder/piston sets and a lot more $$$$ to set it right. http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2129
When properly brought back to life it will make a fine motorcycle, but with late model V7s trading for 4k and thereabouts.....
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it does look pretty clean and well kept. A bit pricy for sure though... Also im guessing if the cyl have all ready been replaced.. it would be a nice project... If not, its WAY over priced..
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Moved to General Discussion .
Dusty
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That is likely a $1000.00 core, it will need the usual complete overhaul front to back inside and out, plan on spending $4000.00 - $5000.00 CDN$ on it, they are good bikes but have quirks. DonG
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Those are Canadian dollars, not US, so the asking price is roughly $2750US
Add another $1500CDN (once mail, exchange rate and import duties are factored in) for Nikisil cylinders and pistons (don't run it without). It may still be a decent buy.
Nick
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Too much money. As FrenchFrog said, the bike will need at least an $800 nikasil cylinder upgrade. Also you'll need to drop the engine, pop off the timing case cover and replace the rubber chain tensioner with a Valtek blade-type tensioner. Otherwise, since you don't have an oil filter, the rubber mung can clog up oil passages, especially in the hoses to the rockers. The 180-watt alternator is too weak to keep the battery charged if the 55-watt headlight is on, so you need to put in an LED headlight or upgrade to a 280-watt alternator out of a T3. You don't have to double the front discs --- I went to a 12mm master cylinder and braided steel brake line, which improved brake effectiveness immensely without adding unsprung weight. The original master cylinder is sized for two discs and doesn't provide enough power. Meanwhile the double-leading shoe rear brake has to be set up just right or it can be too sudden. The combination of weak front brake and toggle-switch rear will teach you how to handle a locked rear wheel, or not.
Frankly, for this kind of money you can get a very nice T3 and not have to do all the improvements.
I've had my T since 1983 and have poured $thousands and hundreds of hours of my time into it, only because of irrational emotional attachment. See an account of the latest rebuild here: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=96442.0 If I had it to do over I'd get a T3.
Another thought: if it's a late T it may have an oil filter. Check the sump -- if there are four bolt-heads in the center then it has a filter. That may mean you're safe regarding chrome bits off the original cylinder walls and rubber bits from the chain tensioner, but the only you'll find out is by dropping the sump to inspect the filter. And the cylinders and chain tensioner should still be swapped out.
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Since it's listed as a '75, it's possible that it may have an oil filter. And who knows - it might already have Nikasil or iron liners.
Shiskowd: If you're going to see the bike in person, look to see if there are four bolts on the bottom of the engine oil pan (two towards the front and two at the back) in addition to the fourteen around the perimeter. If the seller will let you, check to make sure the cylinders haven't already been replaced. Easy to do: remove a sparkplug, make sure the piston is down away from TDC, insert a "pencil magnet" in through the plug hole and touch the cylinder wall. Zero magnetic attraction = chrome, very slight = Nikasil/Nigusil, strong = iron liners.
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I do love certain things on these bikes...sidecovers ( lockable ) nice ally dash panel.
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Those are Canadian dollars, not US, so the asking price is roughly $2750US
Which is more than I paid for my '89 Mille at 50,000 miles, in perfect shape.
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Thanks for all the feedback and comments - impressive community! I reached out to the seller with some questions and will arrange to take a look. To Dave Swanson's point here's a 2009 V7 that would be less overall spend.
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-street-cruisers-choppers/medicine-hat/moto-guzzi-v7-classic/1450730591?enableSearchNavigat ionFlag=true (https://www.kijiji.ca/v-street-cruisers-choppers/medicine-hat/moto-guzzi-v7-classic/1450730591?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true)
Granted, not the same emotional attachment as a restoration..
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Best quote of the thread:
A bike of that age will also quite easily become a money pit but a very enjoyable one!
:laugh: :grin: :wink: :cool: :boozing: :thumb:
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In addition to all said above the oil passages in the rocker arm shafts should be checked for bits of chrome from the cylinders and bits of the timing chain tensioner.
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Knowing the fact that there will be expenditures to get the T to a current riding status ( and being able to afford it without financial strain), not relying on just one bike and getting plenty'o riding during the build could make the journey a lot of fun and rewarding.
I have gone through it more than once , one time in the early 1980's and the second time in this decade. The first time it was a well used commuter bike , the second time a resto mod tribute bike was the end result. Both times were enjoyable and showed me what a great bike a 850T is. Nothing wrong with later , more modern Guzzis and definitely less effort, both physically and financially, but any old Tonti is hard to beat from the user friendliness, looks and fun to ride aspects.
This is my last one. Still my favorite ride
(https://i.ibb.co/9pkhkCC/IMG-0098.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9pkhkCC)
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Seems like a lot of $$ when you can get a running Cali or Jackal for around 2K
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Which is more than I paid for my '89 Mille at 50,000 miles, in perfect shape.
Was that the one for sale on CL in Lancaster Pa last week?
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Was that the one for sale on CL in Lancaster Pa last week?
Nope. Bought mine in Longmont, Colorado three-and-a-half years ago.
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OK - I saw the bike today, took some pictures and collected the following with the owner:
The bike was last registered 9 years ago and has sat in a heated garage since with no work been done in 8 years. Present owner doesn't know the modification history but we sorted that the bike doesn't have an oil filter (see pic of the sump below), doubtful the rubber timing chain tensioner was changed, but we did the pencil magnet test through the spark plug hole with the piston at BDC - there is a very strong and solid 'attraction' to the cylinder wall suggesting there is an iron liner in the cylinder (thanks Antitam!). I double checked the magnet in many positions in the cylinder, it has to be iron.
As the pics below show the bike is in pretty good condition. There is little rust anywhere, the pipes are not dented and very little corrosion. The tank has some paint peeling around the petcocks, not sure if there is pinhole corrosion or perhaps simply a bad gasket when it held fuel. All the electric bits are there including lights, new switch gear and electronic ignition and coils. The bike has a new brake master cylinder, unsure of the cylinder diameter (to Testarosa's point).
The one piece that is missing is any form of airbox and/or air filter. Other than that it would seem pretty complete. Owner suggested I could take it off his hands for $2,400US.
Would welcome any further thoughts or comments!!
(https://i.ibb.co/nqXJHjW/MG850T-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/JBt6W5C/MG850T-2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/xjcqwDL/MG850T-3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/tDx4mmM/MG850T-4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/27y278C/MG850T-5.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/YR30Ytz/MG850T-6.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/x5XSjyp/MG850T-7.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/KVBp4fg/MG850T-8.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/FgGZrV2/MG850T-9.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Xk26Y6R/MG850-T-10.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/mGfSJVS/MG850-T-11.jpg)
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...but we did the pencil magnet test through the spark plug hole with the piston at BDC - there is a very strong and solid 'attraction' to the cylinder wall suggesting there is an iron liner in the cylinder (thanks Antietam!). I double checked the magnet in many positions in the cylinder, it has to be iron.
The one piece that is missing is any form of airbox and/or air filter. Other than that it would seem pretty complete. Owner suggested I could take it off his hands for $2,400US.
Good to hear.
The 850-T never did have any real air filter, just air inlet tubes/"velocity stacks" and a rubber plenum with a screen at the bottom. It is missing the velocity stacks (available as reproductions) and the most common filter used are K&N pods.
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Good to here of the iron cyls... But man 2400 for a non runner..... It looks pretty solid... but you don't know... lots of unknowns.. But she does look pretty clean.. Id really want to be about a 500 to a grand less....
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I was recently offered a running T3 Moto Guzzi in rough but running condition for $1,000 Canadian dollars. (about $750 US) It would have taken about $4,000 to restore. So if I had purchased it, I would end up with a nice T3 for $5000 ... possibly worth $3,000. :sad:
Sometimes even 'free' is too much!
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The satisfaction of restoring an old bike and putting it back on the road is priceless. :grin:
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The Dyna III ignition hasn't been installed yet. The brake hose seems to be steel braid, which implies that whoever replaced the master cylinder knew what he was doing, and it appears the original switch gear has been replaced, also good. Iron cylinder liners very good -- my first step would be a compression and leak-down test but that would require using the starter motor. I'd also take off the oil feed hoses to the cylinder heads and see if they're clogged with rubber. The carbs of course will have to be cleaned. Put on pods, don't worry about the stacks. I tried stacks and on this bike they don't work with air filters.
The last time the tank was put back the throttle cable got kinked, and the fuel hoses have holes. My guess is that ALL the rubber bits will need replacement starting with the fuel system and tires and working through the electric insulators etc. So someone had the right intentions about this bike but since then someone (else?) has been pretty careless.
For the asking price you would expect a running bike. As is it's maybe worth a US grand.
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It seems as though the tank has seen better days. The mess at the petcock is one indicator and the rust visible from the open gas cap suggest a search for a better unit could be in order, but it is possible it could be sorted with a thorough de-rusting operation.
The indication of iron barrels is a very good thing of course.
If I really wanted a T I wouldn't be scared off, but I would try to get the price down to at least 2k. Even at 2K you will need to have your eyes wide open, knowing that after a thorough sorting to make it reliable for the road you will be upside down on the value by a fairly wide margin. This has never stopped me from taking on poor orphans before. :laugh:
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And keep in mind that this T will most likely exceed a total investment of 4k by the time you are done. Late model V7s are trading in that territory.
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I should add that at 44,000 miles the Bosch starter motor probably needs cleaning out. Road mung cakes in there and eventually the thing draws way too much amperage before quitting entirely. It's an easy job but very messy.
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Put on pods, don't worry about the stacks. I tried stacks and on this bike they don't work with air filters.
Really? An 850-T is no different in that regard than a V7 Sport or Convert. There are multiple filter options that work with the "stacks".
With these "stacks":
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=279&products_id=3201
...these K&Ns fit perfectly well:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=164_166&products_id=1907
...this one is specifically made for Guzzis with VHBs, but is a PITA to get on:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=164_166&products_id=3250
...and even these fit - they expand to slip over the "stacks" with a bit of effort, heat and application of silicone spray, butt against one another very tightly though.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=164_166&products_id=1901
Then there are foam pods of various configurations...
Without an stack in place, air tumbles over the square edge in the carb throat and makes for weird mixture/jetting issues in my experience.
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If the bike excites you and it’s in your budget - get it. Mine was in similar shape. I did everything I could myself (challenging at times) and called in some favors. Honestly I spent less then $1800 on parts. There is a special feeling when I ride this one for sure. Every bike has it’s quarks...
(https://i.ibb.co/WyG1J18/3-C4160-A4-A6-BF-4546-BDEA-FEAB7-D673-A1-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WyG1J18)
(https://i.ibb.co/hm9tP5n/0-E53-B4-CA-15-C6-4-F80-AD54-4604-A1-CF6-B0-A.png) (https://ibb.co/hm9tP5n)
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I think some of us are missing the point here. Owning and restoring an old bike is not just about money, it's about getting to know the machine, learning as you go, the satisfaction of doing as much as you can yourself and, when completed, the joy gained from riding. The relationship you have with your bike is improved enormously through your knowledge of and care for it. My T3 cost me $5,000. The restoration of it cost another $7,000. What is it worth now? Who bloody cares? I wouldn't sell it for any price.
What you pay for this bike, shiskowd, is up to you and the seller to negotiate. What you then spend on it depends very much on what you want to make it. In the final analysis, if you regard the costs as money well spent, then that is all that matters.
Good luck to you, whatever you decide.
Dave
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Thanks everyone for their input. Decided to pull the trigger and start this adventure. There isn't too many classic bikes that come up for sale around here that haven't already been restored in some fashion and the price reflects that fact. I'm more interested in the journey than trying to justify the spend although intent to be a frugal as possible. Looking forward to all the learning and will be leaning on all of you for assistance!
I'll start a thread in the Builds and Rebuilds section when I get started. Thanks again...
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I mated for life with Mistress Theresa back in 1983, and am tickled pink to say she runs better than new now (what with all the improvements I've given her). So who am I to tell you to walk away? If you buy it, I wish you a long and happy life together. Make the best deal you can and don't keep track of what you spend thereafter.
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Condition of forks? I guess the gaiters will not hide any oil seepage... but the chrome's condition?
Fuel petcock looks a bit scary. However, I am told that even if tank has pinhole corrosion - a Carwell (or Carswell?) or other two-part epoxy system can often deal with it... that is to say if the petcock is not structurally deficient.
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And welcome to WG! If you get the bike, be sure to start a thread on the rebuild section (if it requires significant work). There is a lot of knowledge on this forum that can help you out of a jam.
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Welcome to the best Moto Guzzi web site in the world!
I see you are in Alberta, I am in Edmonton, if you need any help with your rebuild just pm me here on the site. I am going to be away riding in Europe for a couple months but will be back in November.
Jim
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I realized I missed your post at the top of the page! :embarrassed:
Welcome to the world of Guzzi! Please consider joining MGNOC. It is still a great organization and needs new blood. The red suspender crowd can't keep it going forever. :grin:
http://www.mgnoc.com/become_a_member.html
Besides the monthly E newsletter that keeps you up to date on all events Guzzi, you will be able to download the Contact List that can be invaluable while traveling if you need some help.
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shiskowd, AND with your MGNOC membership you can download the 3 volumes of MGNOC Tips for Guzzis. There will be invaluable information regarding your 850T in there.
Having a copy of Guzziology by your side would be recommended also.
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Got the bike home and started to sort through a drawer full of receipts and notes. Also donated to the forum and now a member of MGNOC, I'll need all the help I can get... I'll start a Build and Rebuild thread shortly. Thanks for all your support and encouragement!
(https://i.ibb.co/7X0TYnL/20190819-DPS02779.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g3cXjSh)
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Good going!
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Welcome to the best Moto Guzzi web site in the world!
I see you are in Alberta, I am in Edmonton, if you need any help with your rebuild just pm me here on the site. I am going to be away riding in Europe for a couple months but will be back in November.
Jim
Shiskowd - don't ignore this offer. Jim is THE MAN!
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Great news, glad to see you bought it. Welcome to the forum and to the strange world of Guzzi ownership. I thought the photos of your bike in the garage looked good. It looks even better in daylight. Well done.