Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: fallguy on September 04, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
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I bought this bike new and got it a week ago with 4 miles on it. I have put about 100 miles in the past week on it, with no problems. Yesterday I was slowing down at a stop sign and and the bike just died. It started up fine, drove it for about a mile, and it died while I was riding it, downshifting to be precise. I did not hit the kill switch or the kick stand on accident. The bike is in neutral and when turning the key to on, no lights at all on the dash come up. The head light and tail light come on for a fraction of a second, and then go off, keeping the very last few lights on the tail lights stay on. But no dash lights whats so ever. The battery is charged, I put it on a charger overall several hours and the charger shows fully charged. The bike has gas, and fuses under the seat were checked. All looked in tact, changed for the spare fuses for those that had them. There have been zero modifications to the bike.
No matter what I do, the turning of the key to on does not turn on the dash or any of it's lights. Closest Guizzi dealership is 147 away, really dont want to have transported there. And I dont have the capability without trying to borrow a setup to take it myself. I did look around and it does seem there is a semi same problem, battery, wires, something with some Guzzi's. But not exactly the same, I apologize if this issue has been covered and I missed it. This is a 2017 that sat in the crate until the a few weeks ago. Basically brand new, worked fine, and now this. Really aggravated, just at the end of a terrible buying process from a terrible out of state dealership.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
EDIT, THE BIKE IS FIXED!!!!!
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Since the experts are remaining silent ...
I know you said the battery showed full charge , but every indication is that the it isn't holding a charge . Take it to a parts house and have a load test done .
Dusty
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Updated
Have you checked all of the fuses?
Look at the wiring diagrams on the bottom of this list, I think the one for 1400 power for a start.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/sportissimo.html
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2014_California_Power_Supply.gif
Check for power on each of the fuses
The fuses at 30 should be alive at both sides even with the key Off (little piece of metal visible) in relation to a chassis bolt.
With the key On all fuses should be alive.
Note: your bike may not be the same as this diagram but the fuses should be alive when the key is On, some will be Off when the key is Off.
Actually it sounds like the battery may be disconnected, perhaps a Lead Oxide problem.
If the battery connections are put together dry sometimes the terminals get a layer of Lead Oxide on them, this can creep between the battery post and the lug and completely isolate the joint or sometimes leave just a tiny contact point that may fuse when you try to start.
Try taking the wires off and scrape the terminals then apply some grease Vaseline or anything greasy will do at a pinch
Also inspect the main ground connection and treat it the same way.
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All I've got is.. sorry, that really sucks. Hopefully someone here can help you out and it ends up being something really simple.
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I assume it is under warranty. If you can not solve the problem I would pressure the dealer to come pick it up at no charge.
GliderJohn
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I concur that the fact the failure is sudden and almost complete would seem to indicate the main power feed or earth contact as a likely problem.
Also you'll need to load test the battery as it may be problematic. It might be shorting out internally due to being put into service incorrectly. This is surprisingly common as it seems people are incapable of reading instructions and just pour the acid in and then put the battery into service. Wrong.
Pete
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Thanks for all of the replies. I have checked all fuses that are under the seat. I will do a better check tomorrow. The battery looks to be brand new, and the connections show no build up. I can take a picture tomorrow.
I cant take it back to the dealership, I live in TN and bought it from Vegas at Euro Cycles. They shipped it to me. The closest Guzzi dealership is 147 miles from me. There is a 2 year warranty, I was hoping it would be a quick fix, but may have to get it over to them. If fixed, I dont want this to happen again. As I said in the first post, its a 2017, sat in a crate for 2 years. Perhaps over time the battery went bad. But it literally ran fin for a solid week, 100 miles. When riding I was flipping through the switches, and I remember it saying the batter was at 14.x.
I will either take the battery and have it checked, or just buy one outright and try it. The charger that I used to charge it, showed it at 100%, but who knows. Doesnt know volts or anything like that. Thanks again for the help. I'll try to update tomorrow.
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Thanks for all of the replies. I have checked all fuses that are under the seat. I will do a better check tomorrow. The battery looks to be brand new, and the connections show no build up. I can take a picture tomorrow.
I cant take it back to the dealership, I live in TN and bought it from Vegas at Euro Cycles. They shipped it to me. The closest Guzzi dealership is 147 miles from me. There is a 2 year warranty, I was hoping it would be a quick fix, but may have to get it over to them. If fixed, I dont want this to happen again. As I said in the first post, its a 2017, sat in a crate for 2 years. Perhaps over time the battery went bad. But it literally ran fin for a solid week, 100 miles. When riding I was flipping through the switches, and I remember it saying the batter was at 14.x.
I will either take the battery and have it checked, or just buy one outright and try it. The charger that I used to charge it, showed it at 100%, but who knows. Doesnt know volts or anything like that. Thanks again for the help. I'll try to update tomorrow.
I'd double check the battery connections are tight, main grounds are tight, main fuses/relays are properly set. Pull completely out, check not blown and reinsert. It's also not unknown for a battery to just fail. I have a 2017 Toyota Tundra. Have had it a year-and-a-half with no problems. One day without warning or cause the battery completely failed. No idea how it happened but the battery fractured internally and the post became separated from the lead plates inside the battery. Create all kinds of craziness and blinking lights and clicking relays. Could be as simple as a defective battery
May also be a good idea to tip the fairing (easy to do, loosen the center bolt lower front center, and remove the two upper bolts rear top of fairing near forks. Once tipped pull the cover over the ignition switch (two small bolts and remove gas cap) then check all the connectors are plugged in correctly.
Have you called the selling dealer? (sorry if I missed that in your post)
Hopefully it is something simple like a poor connection. Dealer prep sucks, my fairing almost fell off, left handlebar stub came loose and poorly set breather on left head leaked oil on my 250 mile ride home. Simple easy fixes that should have been caught, now 3500 happy miles later, they are just memories. Now I have to deal with the Brake recall, but I am NOT bringing the bike in until they run the vin, confirm it is a bike that needs the part, and they have it IN STOCK...... My time is too important to waste, and my patience is very thin when dealing with stealerships....... ...
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Geez.
I hope that forum name doesn’t end up being metaphorical..
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Thanks for all of the replies. I have checked all fuses that are under the seat. I will do a better check tomorrow. The battery looks to be brand new, and the connections show no build up. I can take a picture tomorrow.
I cant take it back to the dealership, I live in TN and bought it from Vegas at Euro Cycles. They shipped it to me. The closest Guzzi dealership is 147 miles from me. There is a 2 year warranty, I was hoping it would be a quick fix, but may have to get it over to them. If fixed, I dont want this to happen again. As I said in the first post, its a 2017, sat in a crate for 2 years. Perhaps over time the battery went bad. But it literally ran fin for a solid week, 100 miles. When riding I was flipping through the switches, and I remember it saying the batter was at 14.x.
I will either take the battery and have it checked, or just buy one outright and try it. The charger that I used to charge it, showed it at 100%, but who knows. Doesnt know volts or anything like that. Thanks again for the help. I'll try to update tomorrow.
Lead Oxide is not that apparent, it's just a darker layer on the terminal and even if the terminals are dead tight it can form and isolate, just scrape the battery posts with a knife to expose shiny metal then apply the grease. The grease occludes Oxygen therefore the metal cannot Oxidize.
And if that's the problem I guarantee it won't happen again with a protective film of grease.
If you have a multimeter (or simple test light) touch the probes on the battery terminals (the battery part) you will likely see it read Zero, thats the lead Oxide. Now take the probes and jamb the sharp tips into the posts breaking through the Oxide layer.
Take your multimeter or test light, fasten one probe to a chassis bolt, poke the other to the battery lug, what does it read?
If the positive post reads zero then poke it into the negative battery terminal you might find it reads negative 12 Volts (bad ground)
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This bike has a couple hundred miles on it?
Truck it to the dealer and get your money back. Actually call the Guzzi roadside assistance and tell 'em to pick it up, they can truck it back.
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This bike has a couple hundred miles on it?
Truck it to the dealer and get your money back. Actually call the Guzzi roadside assistance and tell 'em to pick it up, they can truck it back.
It's 1800 miles from Tennessee back to the dealer in Las Vegas...
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Don't be so hasty, it's probably something dead simple.
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Id check the battery cables, ground and main ground. I've heard of this happening before (Griso Ghetto forum) on more than one occasion.
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The battery, not the bike, sounds like..it's right in your 2nd and 3rd sentence
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I had a similar thing after replacing a 5 year-old battery. The bike ran fine for a week with the new battery - and then there wasn't enough electrical power to even totally initialize the electronics. The voltage was good, but it immediately failed a load test. (another) new battery solved the problem.
Just an example. Your mileage may vary.
:popcorn:
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Again, thanks for the replies. Yes, it does sound battery related. It just seemed odd to me that it suddenly died on me while riding. From working 100% to instantly not at all. I have had alternators go out on me before, and the vehicle die on me while driving, but there was a few seconds of it chugging alone, then dying. And it would turn over, just not start. This was instant, with no dash lights at all. Yet the parking lights work, as shown in the pic below. Turning the key all the way left, puts the parking lights on. So they work, but nothing on the dash at all. Seems like if it had power for that, dash lights would at least come on for a few seconds? I thought maybe it was a short or something, because to be honest the ability of the dealer to put it together right is not great in my opinion. The plastic cover that is over the battery, has 8 screws. ONE screw was screwed in, two were loosely laying in the hole for the screw, the other five were no where to be seen. If they missed this, what else could they have missed. Before I went taking stuff apart looking for a short or connection that came off, I wanted to ask questions from people here.
That being said, the battery is probably very old. And sat in that crate for years. I took it out and visually inspected it, levels seemed, and no other obvious visual problems. Connections are clean. Yet it still could be the battery, its obviously something electrical. I dont have a way to test the voltage on the battery, old unit broke awhile back. Guess its time to get another. That would tell me a lot.
Thanks again, I will try to get a battery today if I have the time. Just to check and go from there. I submitted to Moto Guzzi the problem for roadside assistance, they refereed me to my "local" dealership, 147 miles away.
(https://i.ibb.co/37vSPmg/20190905-083743.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yXpgxFH)
(https://i.ibb.co/s61cS0M/20190905-083303.jpg) (https://ibb.co/61tGh3f)
(https://i.ibb.co/cF9b8FT/20190905-083027.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ncy31ck)
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Thanks for keeping us apprised , let us know how this works out :thumb:
Dusty
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Betcha its da battery.
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take the flippen battery to autozone and have it load tested. for free no less! that will tell us where to go from there.
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Looks like a nice Mustang keeping the MGX company. Good luck.
GliderJohn
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It's 1800 miles from Tennessee back to the dealer in Las Vegas...
what a shame
yes, it does sound electrical.
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Looks like a nice Mustang keeping the MGX company. Good luck.
GliderJohn
'68 I believe :azn:
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If the battery checks out on a load test, another possibility is the ignition switch. There have been known problems with some, but usually after more miles. Try pushing down firmly on the key while in the on position and holding it there.
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take the flippen battery to autozone and have it load tested. for free no less! that will tell us where to go from there.
I actually did that this morning, well O'Reilly. Tested fine on volts and amps. Bought a new battery anyways, $120. Doesnt fit. Pos and neg are on the opposite side, and if I turn the battery around the cables dont reach, and there is a non-removable connection on the post too, so the cable from the bike wont fit. I should have looked at it before I left, but figured it was ok since he looked it up. Taking it back, and going to an actual bike shop tomorrow for a proper battery, its just all the way across town.
Called the Guzzi dealership closest to me, after explaining he thought battery as well. Mostly because it sat in a crate for 2+ years. The recall is pretty dangerous and needs to be done too. He said it was under warranty, he just needs it. Going to try the new battery tomorrow, and then go from there.
All this headache, over what is probably a battery. But its the culmination of the bike. I ordered it May 26th, it hit my credit June 6th. Just got it last week, already made two payments on it, and third is due very soon. Sent me one key, missing screws on the battery cover, no manual, more little things, terrible response from them. Ever since they had gotten my money, they have been terrible. Its Sept, and I just want to ride the dang thing. Thanks for everyone's patience, I'll try another battery tomorrow.
Good eye on the Mustang, it is a 68. One of my babies.
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Tested fine on volts and amps.
If it tests ok, it's probably ok.. <shrug>
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Hi fallguy, I'm sorry for your situation. Euro Cycles Reno is the worst dealer I've experienced in 54 years since Vegas bought them from the Yull bros. 4 bikes, one an MGX21. Only had it 18 months w/o issues that I bought in lust but it wasn't a personal match.
My suggestion is to get a proper fitting battery, check ALL fuses again, closely, removed & individually & FORGET, I repeat FORGET Euro Cycles Reno. Try to find a closer reliable dealer.
Take some deep breaths & start over. Sometimes we have to endure losses to move forward.
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I will never, ever use them again. I really wanted an MGX-21, and got a pretty good deal on one from them. Since its a '17 and in a crate. Traded in a bike, and didn't spend a whole lot on it. Nobody around here sold them, so had to look elsewhere. The manager is supposed to call me back after "jury duty", which I dont really believe he is in. They have lied time after time to me. All I really want from them is to pay to have it sent to the shop. But since it took months (literally) to even send it to me in the first place, wary of that even.
I went ahead and got a proper battery. Brand new, added the acid to it, instructions claim that puts it at 70%. Installed and tried again, same exact thing. The front headlight and tail lights come on for a fraction of a second, then go off. Nothing on the dash. I tried pushing the key in harder, same thing. Put the battery on the charger just to put it at 100%, at this point I know its not going to work. I checked all fuses under the seat again. I feel like its something easy, a connection somewhere, short, just something. Starting up fine, rode a few minutes, then it just dying like this doesnt make much sense, unless its something like that. Over the weekend I may take more time to dig further, pull some panels off to check wires. Just dont want to go on a goose chase. But I am honestly ready to just pay to have it sent to the shop a few hours away. Let them deal with it, I am just so frustrated at this point. Had a dozen or so bikes before, first Guzzi. I bought a new carbon fiber AGV helmet the day this happened, all excited to ride. Now I have what appears to be 3 good batteries. Taking one back for sure, but I added the acid to this one and would feel bad taking it back. Spent $250 today on batteries though, yay. Really enjoyed riding it for a few days, want to get it going again before it gets too cool.
Thanks to everyone for listening to me bitch, and the advice on what I could try and do.
Edit, if it matters, it died exactly as I down shifted from 4th to 3rd. I looked around the gear shifter and clutch, looks fine.
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MG is unique in many ways. Sorry again that this is your 1st. Don't give up. It's a machine. There's a fix somewhere unlike a contrary woman.
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Your bike quit as you were downchanging (decelerating), but would fire again on occasions and now has limited lighting and other contradictory symptoms.
Does your bike have a “tip over” switch.
I’m wondering if it is not in it’s mount properly and has started to cut the ignition and other circuits ?
Did you say whether or not it’s thrown a code ?
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I suspect it has relays like other Guzzi's. I would pull and clean them all and replace them one at a time with a known good 5 prong one. clean the battery ground at the frame too.
I do think the ignition switch might be it and if it's a programed key you better get the other one from Vegas.
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Did you check the opposite ends of the battery cables and harness grounds?
The brothers (Brad and Mark Yuill) that initially owned Eurocycles were good guys, but retirement age.
Chris, the current owner, is obnoxious. His silent partner, Antonio Acconerio, has interresting history. John Hollywood, is/was the sales manager and he seemed to be a decent person. Because of words exchanged with Chris over him moving my V7II so he could park his Jaguar, my next two bikes came from other dealerships.
So, no love lost over Eurocycles, but what could they have done from a distance?
My 2014 Honda CB1100 (0-60 in 3.3) was warehoused (SoCal) in a crate for 3 years. Dealer installed new battery during prep. 12,500 miles in 10 months no issues.
I have no experience with Reno, but Las Vegas buys so many used bikes wholesale, the service department is loaded just prepping them for resale.
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I have no experience with those 1400 ccm Guzzis but could it be a problem with the ride-by-wire throttle?
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What is happening with Guzzi and their QC? I'm starting to doubt it after 20+ years of no issues.
You do have roadside assistance on that bike. Push it out of your driveway and call them. Make them come pick it up and fix it. If you don't find an answer that is...
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Where are you in TN, I’m near Chattanooga. I also suspect something easy like a main relay between the battery and the starter solenoid in the ignition system. Others more knowledgeable than me will know if the Demand Sensor could be the culprit. If you can, avoid leaving the bike at Sloan’s for the brake recall until they confirm they have the part(s) in stock. This could be crucial. Others are still waiting, with the bike in the shop, several weeks on parts for that one.
Guzzis are actually very nice bikes once they're sorted out. Sadly, as you’ve found out, the dealer network is very poor. This forum can be your lifeline for getting accurate information on what the bikes need.
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I wonder if the alarm system has an immobilizer that could be shutting down everything. I think you said you didn't get an owners manual but maybe someone here with a Fortress can look for you or you can find out about the alarm on line. Just a thought.
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No snark intended . Always put a new battery on a good charger for at least an hour before installing .
Dusty
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Because there have been a couple of instances with bad demand sensors recently it is NOT a reason to assume that every problem with a RBW Guzzi can be sheeted home to this one issue so let's put that one to bed right now.
What is happening here is an almost complete power drop-out. Now batteries have been tried but the owner's own words about one of them were "I put the acid in and installed it." Which is NOT how you activate an AGM battery. The fact that two other batteries are also failing to wake things up though would tend to make me lean away from the battery itself being the issue.
If I'm reading this correctly the dash flickers and then goes out and the only thing being left illuminated are the tail light LED's? Now these are powered through the main circuits but their current draw will be very low. It would seem to me that what the most likely problem is down to significant voltage drop due to resistance in the main delivery or earth systems. Once current is being drawn the voltage is dropping below the critical point where the dashboard shuts everything down. Once that has happened it won't re-boot again until the voltage rises significantly. Unless the 'Blockage' is removed rhat isn't likely to happen.
I don't know whether the earth strap to the engine has been checked? I believe that like the CARC bikes this mounts on the gearbox under the starter motor cover. It would be well worth removing the cover, then the hexagonal 'Thing' that holds the earth straps and cleaning the eyelets of the strap/s and scraping the paint off the gearbox to ensure a good earth path before coating both with terminal protectant and reinstalling. Another 'Quick and dirty' trick would be to use another big earth strap from somewhere like a bell housing nut/stud to the battery negative just to see if that solved the 'Shut down' problem. If it does then the problem is definitely in the main earth strap and/or it's mounts.
Pete
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...Now these are powered through the main circuits but their current draw will be very low. It would seem to me that what the most likely problem is down to significant voltage drop due to resistance in the main delivery or earth systems. Once current is being drawn the voltage is dropping below the critical point where the dashboard shuts everything down. Once that has happened it won't re-boot again until the voltage rises significantly. Unless the 'Blockage' is removed rhat isn't likely to happen...
Tracking this down is paramount.
Voltage drop will support the hypothesis.
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We can't reach through the internet and troubleshoot your bike, you are going to have to do that.
You seem to have lots of money to waste on batteries, spend some of it on a $20 Multi meter so we can start testing.
You will also have to get a little familiar with drawings, there are about 6 for the 1400 but these 3 will do for now
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2014_California_Legend.gif
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2014_California_Ground.gif
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2014_California_Power_Supply.gif
A quick glance at the Legend and the Grounding
Then look at the power supply. don't be put off by the complexity we are only going to do some real basic testing.
The drawing shows two main fuses 30 near the battery 31 follow the Red/White striped wire from fuse 2 up and you will see it powers several other fuses at 62
The striped wire also heads on up to the ignition switch. When the key is turned On it powers up the Green/Black wire that feeds 12 Volts to the remaining 2 fuses.
So with your multimeter you can check for Voltage at all of those fuses If you are not getting anything you have a terminal problem or a main ground problem.
Blade type fuses usually have a tiny slot so you can test for Voltage without having to remove them.
As I said previously your bike may not be exactly like this but it will be very close wire colours may be different.
In the picture you took of the battery the terminals look dry, I cannot stress strongly enough the importance of scraping the posts to show bright metal and applying a little grease.
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OP - if you want to try and troubleshoot it yourself before handing it over to a dealer you have 3-4 of the best troubleshooting (especially electrical) guys I know chiming in. You CAN DO IT with their help.
As for the frustration regarding a new bike and wanting to hold the selling dealer and manufacturer responsible, I GET IT I TRULY DO. I've gone through some lengths in the past and have tilted at many a windmill. But there's nothing more the selling dealer can or should do for you at this point (even if they missed something during prep). If you insist on the manufacturer taking responsibility it would be best to roll it into the street, call the towing service, and go from there. Though if it were me and knowing what I know now, I'd take the help from the techs on the board first.
Good luck, and we're here for you if you want us to be!
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MG is unique in many ways. Sorry again that this is your 1st. Don't give up. It's a machine. There's a fix somewhere unlike a contrary woman.
Im not, I dont blame Moto Guzzi. I honestly blame Euro Cycles so far, but we'll see.
Your bike quit as you were downchanging (decelerating), but would fire again on occasions and now has limited lighting and other contradictory symptoms.
Does your bike have a “tip over” switch.
I’m wondering if it is not in it’s mount properly and has started to cut the ignition and other circuits ?
Did you say whether or not it’s thrown a code ?
It did die as I was down shifting, but never did fire again. It died, and never came back on. Will not turn over, doesn't give the click of a dead battery when trying to start, has zero lights on the dash. Just the front and rear for a fraction of a second when turning the key on.
I feel like something has triggered, maybe as you say a tip over switch. It does tell me the angle of the bike. Something it keeping it from coming on.
Did you check the opposite ends of the battery cables and harness grounds?
The brothers (Brad and Mark Yuill) that initially owned Eurocycles were good guys, but retirement age.
Chris, the current owner, is obnoxious. His silent partner, Antonio Acconerio, has interresting history. John Hollywood, is/was the sales manager and he seemed to be a decent person. Because of words exchanged with Chris over him moving my V7II so he could park his Jaguar, my next two bikes came from other dealerships.
So, no love lost over Eurocycles, but what could they have done from a distance?
My 2014 Honda CB1100 (0-60 in 3.3) was warehoused (SoCal) in a crate for 3 years. Dealer installed new battery during prep. 12,500 miles in 10 months no issues.
I have no experience with Reno, but Las Vegas buys so many used bikes wholesale, the service department is loaded just prepping them for resale.
I bought from Vegas, but it shipped from Reno. Just another instance of them messing up. They send the truck to pick up the bike in Vegas, but it was in Reno. So that delayed the shipping by another month, because apparently they only ship across country once a month and it missed the truck. Hollywood is the only decent person there I think too.
Where are you in TN, I’m near Chattanooga. I also suspect something easy like a main relay between the battery and the starter solenoid in the ignition system. Others more knowledgeable than me will know if the Demand Sensor could be the culprit. If you can, avoid leaving the bike at Sloan’s for the brake recall until they confirm they have the part(s) in stock. This could be crucial. Others are still waiting, with the bike in the shop, several weeks on parts for that one.
Guzzis are actually very nice bikes once they're sorted out. Sadly, as you’ve found out, the dealer network is very poor. This forum can be your lifeline for getting accurate information on what the bikes need.
I am in West Knoxville. Closest dealership is outside of Nashville, in Murfreesboro. As you said Sloans. He said I would have to let him know in advance, because he cant get the parts otherwise for the brake recall. So you are correct on that. Seemed very helpful on the phone. Just needs the bike to get it going again and do the recall.
I have not followed the cables the opposite way from the battery. I have read all other replies, just short on time to reply back. I will look into it further, and I REALLY do appreciate the help or advice. I am not giving up on the bike, things happen. This is the bike I wanted, and I am sticking with it. I have dealt with my fair share of gremlins with vehicles, I just waited so long for it and was excited to ride it. It will get sorted, trying to be patient. I have been trying to troubleshoot, and I am not trying to waste money on batteries. I bought one, and it didn't fit. I bought another to try, I am returning the first. That is how you setup the new battery, I followed the instructions exactly. I had to fill each of the eight bays, the liquid came separate.
I have a friend who is going to help me take the bike to the dealer on Monday, brake needs fixed anyways. I will continue to try fixing it until then, just because I don't like not being able to figure something out, especially when its probably so easy. I am married, with 4 kids (20, 15, 6, 2) work full time, and going to school full time for my Masters. Time is not something I have a great deal of. If I dont reply to someone or try something, its not because I dont appreciate the help. I hate getting too deep into something, taking things apart, and having to leave it for days before coming back to. Biggest reason I haven't started to get deeper. I will get another multi meter, needed one anyways. And start testing things when I get the time. Thanks again for the advice, and patience. I will surely follow up when things get fixed.
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Fall Guy, when you have time, do contact Moto Guzzi, especially if the 2nd key and manual were not provided by EC, and see how they respond. A bad dealer is not good for the company. Good luck.
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Let's see , married , 4 kids , works full time , still working on a masters , and hasn't started ranting yet :bow:
Attaboy
Dusty
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Wow 4 kids, I will certainly cut you some slack, our 3 YO grandson keeps us both busy when we have him to look after.
In lue of a meter something like a tail light bulb with a couple of wires attached is sometimes better than a meter, it adds some load on the circuit.
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Fallguy,
I sent you a private message with my contact information. Glad to help if you have the time.
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I can't disrespect Eurocycle enough. Their product sells itself. I only hope they're held accountable & compelled to improve with as few rider disappointments as possible.
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Good info from Pete Roper and Kiwi Roy.
Two points in following their advice:
1. Rather than reporting "voltage checks good", advise voltage at each check point, as it is important to look for voltage drop in comparison to battery voltage. Voltage drop is an indication of resistance, usually attributable to a poor connection or frayed cable (most strands broken) or excessive load, which could be a short to ground, but not a dead short sufficient to blow a fuse.
2. From the negative side of each component checked, measure resistance to battery negative terminal. If connections are good, it should be expected to read 0.1 to maybe 0.2 ohm. If higher, carefully check related harness grounds.
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The bike is fixed! Had help from a non Guzzi owner, but with lots of experience. Checked voltage on almost everything, battery, fuses, and other connections. Took off some side panels, and dug around. Tracing the battery ground wire led us to the starter solenoid. There is a small 12v connection that was loose on the back side of it that was very hard to get to. Took it off, crimped down the connection so it would attach better, and put it back on. Connected the battery back, and it worked as normal. Lights came on, bike fired right up.
The starter solenoid is right by the shift lever, and the bike did die when I went from 4th to 3rd as I stated before. I supposed the jarring from the shifting maybe finally made it pop off all the way. Which again leads me to believe Euro Cycle did not connect it properly. It should not have came off if they did. When investigating the problem, there were screws that were loose, not there at all, and other little things that just leads me to believe whoever put this together did not do it properly.
I am VERY grateful for everyone's advice, and patience with me on this problem. And for the help of a forum member who did a home visit to help me out. These forums did exactly as I believe they were intended to do, bring people together and help each other out. Thanks!!!
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Loose fasteners: Ugh! Either the dealer or the manufacturer was negligent...
There is a YT video of a group Norge press ride in Italy, and the silencer on one of them came loose and dragged on the ground. Classic!
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The spot welds on my Norge muffler outer shell failed early on and was coming apart. Harpers riveted back together and it has held ever since.
GliderJohn
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The bike is fixed! Had help from a non Guzzi owner, but with lots of experience. Checked voltage on almost everything, battery, fuses, and other connections. Took off some side panels, and dug around. Tracing the battery ground wire led us to the starter solenoid. There is a small 12v connection that was loose on the back side of it that was very hard to get to. Took it off, crimped down the connection so it would attach better, and put it back on. Connected the battery back, and it worked as normal. Lights came on, bike fired right up.
The starter solenoid is right by the shift lever, and the bike did die when I went from 4th to 3rd as I stated before. I supposed the jarring from the shifting maybe finally made it pop off all the way. Which again leads me to believe Euro Cycle did not connect it properly. It should not have came off if they did. When investigating the problem, there were screws that were loose, not there at all, and other little things that just leads me to believe whoever put this together did not do it properly.
I am VERY grateful for everyone's advice, and patience with me on this problem. And for the help of a forum member who did a home visit to help me out. These forums did exactly as I believe they were intended to do, bring people together and help each other out. Thanks!!!
Great news!
Take some time to go over the rest of your bike systematically a bit at a time to ensure all other connections are proper and fasteners tight, etc. Enjoy! the MGX takes some adjustment, but is a brilliant bike!
FWIW, after playing with tire pressures to address the 21" front tire, I found 38-39lbs to be perfect for my feel. Others are running stock (36) and some 42.
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good going!
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Great news :thumb: Now you can make it to the GRIT rally or Oklahoma camp out and show that beauty off .
Dusty
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Thanks for the other suggestions. I will take time to get more familiar with this bike, and tweak it some now. I am very very excited to have it working. So is my wife, gonna try to get out and ride soon.
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Thats great news, the wire you describe sounds like the trigger for the solenoid which shouldn't really effect the dash lights.
Do you think your friend may have fixed a loose ground behind the starter at the same time?
Or
Does the main feed for the fuses tap into the main starter cable at the solenoid, that used to be a common method of keeping the number of battery terminals to a minimum.
Cheers
Roy
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Good to hear that the problem appears fixed. Best of luck here on out.
GliderJohn
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Excellent news Fallguy, Something to think about is Karma. It would be beneficial to donate whatever you feel to this forum, It helps Luap keep this running so all us know-it-alls can help from time to time :evil: Glad your back on the road.
Paul B :boozing:
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It's 1800 miles from Tennessee back to the dealer in Las Vegas...
It was shipped to Tennessee
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Sounds like Mark is probably the guy. Attaboy. :thumb:
Thats great news, the wire you describe sounds like the trigger for the solenoid which shouldn't really effect the dash lights.
Do you think your friend may have fixed a loose ground behind the starter at the same time?
Of course, that sounds like what most have been saying all along. <shrug>
Something to think about is Karma. It would be beneficial to donate whatever you feel to this forum, It helps Luap keep this running so all us know-it-alls can help from time to time
Good point. Think of the expense and hassle of trying to get it fixed otherwise. A small donation to WG certainly isn't out of line.. the pittance I give to WG every year is invaluable to me.
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After seeing what goes on at some dealerships in the shop from the inside, the people they hire to do new bike assembly make me cringe. It seems fast sloppy work is the norm
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Thanks for the report Fallguy.
I have an '07 Griso and '03 Lemans that I've increased the size of the starter solenoid wire on, after listening to Kiwi Roy and checking the resistance of the wire I decided it was a good thing to do. It appears it's something the Guzzi Engineers think doesn't need to be done.
Also I cleaned all the grounds at the block & frame. I want those grounds to show as few ohms as possible. Getting rid of the paint under the connection and oxidized metal has helped.
Also I'll stay away from Euro Cycles. Decades ago a Carpenter I used to work with always said cheap is the most expensive way to go.
Mark
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No, we did not fix the ground at the same time. It was just that small wire.
Donation made.
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Hi Fallguy,
can't recall anyone wishing you welcome, so welcome to this most excellent forum!
I foremost hope you'll have a long and prosperous relationship with your MGX, and also that we'll see you again on Wildguzzi under more cheery circumstances! :boozing:
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Hi Fallguy,
can't recall anyone wishing you welcome, so welcome to this most excellent forum!
I foremost hope you'll have a long and prosperous relationship with your MGX, and also that we'll see you again on Wildguzzi under more cheery circumstances! :boozing:
:thumb:
Tom
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Well.... drove to work yesterday, no problems. Backed out of the driveway today, and halfway down it died again. Same exact thing. Turn the key, nothing. No lights, no starting, nothing. I hate to do it, but looks like I may be soldering the connection, so that it doesn't pop off again. Annoying, but this too will pass.
Thanks for the welcome!
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Take deep breaths, fallguy. You'll have the bike a long time and this agony will be over soon. Some time ago, I thought I wanted to buy a Royal Enfield, a single. Euro Cycles had by far the lowest price. It was winter, so I asked them if they'd hold one if I paid for it. I'd pick it up in the spring when I could ride it home to Denver. I got a terrific runaround when I asked them what the bike would cost, and if I'd need to pay sales tax or Nevada license fees. I never found out any of that. Sales guys wouldn't return calls or emails. I got the worst feeling from those guys, both at the Vegas store and the one in Windsor, California. It'll take you a while but you'll erase any evidence that they ever touched your new bike. And good riddance.
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Well.... drove to work yesterday, no problems. Backed out of the driveway today, and halfway down it died again. Same exact thing. Turn the key, nothing. No lights, no starting, nothing. I hate to do it, but looks like I may be soldering the connection, so that it doesn't pop off again. Annoying, but this too will pass.
Thanks for the welcome!
Did you ever check the ground to the battery? Or just do a quick a dirty cable from the negative battery terminal to a bolt on the engine or transmission? Guzzis are prone to bad grounds when fighting electrical gremlins.
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Fallguy,
Well, it sucks if that same wire came loose again. Instead of soldering it on I'd be tempted to drill a small hole on that spade connector. Either for a wrap of safety wire or an M2 bolt and locknut with Locktite. You'll likely have to remove the starter assembly for any of that though. Once the starter is removed you should be able to fully verify the battery ground wire at its engine/frame connection as well.
This too shall pass and in the end, all will be well.
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Thanks for the report Fallguy.
I have an '07 Griso and '03 Lemans that I've increased the size of the starter solenoid wire on, after listening to Kiwi Roy and checking the resistance of the wire I decided it was a good thing to do. It appears it's something the Guzzi Engineers think doesn't need to be done.
Also I cleaned all the grounds at the block & frame. I want those grounds to show as few ohms as possible. Getting rid of the paint under the connection and oxidized metal has helped.
Also I'll stay away from Euro Cycles. Decades ago a Carpenter I used to work with always said cheap is the most expensive way to go.
Where do you go for dealer support? Elk Grove Motorsports?
kk
Mark
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TN Mark, good idea. I'll just take off the starter, and go from there. Se what's what. And as you, and others have said, make sure that the battery ground wire is secure. Make sure all connections are secure and clean.
Moparnut72, thanks for quoting that, I missed it. For not-fishing; Murfreesboro is the closest for me. 147 miles from my house in Knoxville.
This will pass, I do know it. I am not going to give up on it, for blame Guzzi that bad. Its a connector, not the end of the world. My new wind shield comes in tomorrow, and last night I bought the carbon fiber passenger seat cover. Ready to ride reliably! Hoping to have the time by Wednesday, we've got a date night setup. Finally got a sitter, would rather ride than drive.
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Fallguy, this time could you take a picture of the lug that's giving problems, I suspect it may be the main positive feed
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2014_California_Entire.gif
Concentrate on items
28 - Startup Relay
29 - Starter
30 - Main Fuses
31 - Battery
See the wire identified as Vi, between 28 and 29 that should be capable of handling 40 Amps for a second or two i.e. at least the equivalent of American 18 gauge.
Once again this is the only schematic I have to look at, yours may be a slightly different arrangement.
I don't have a 1400 to look at but I could skip over to our local dealer and see if they have one
I am really puzzled that you lose the dash lights, even if Vi falls off it's only the trigger wire.
The Black wire N for Negro terminates behind the starter I think, of course it must be impeccable
The two fuses at 30 and most of those at 62 must be at full battery Voltage without the key On and the rest should be the same with key On
Do the 2 fuses item 30 really get their power direct from the battery positive terminal as shown I couldn't quite make this out in the photo you posted.
What does that large black dot represent?
Better pictures please.
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Fallguy, this time could you take a picture of the lug that's giving problems, I suspect it may be the main positive feed>
Could be very helpful.
If it is the same issue (unplugged) make sure there is slack on the cable.
A 6.3 mm / 0.250 in spade connector should have specifications for insertion/withdrawal force.
Part of that force comes from the dimple on the male interlocking with a recess (different designs) on the female...more than the rolled-over edges on the female.
It may vary with manufacturers, there there is an example on page 8 of this link:
https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=2-1773700-5TerminalAndSplicesSelection&DocType=DS&DocLang=English&s_cid=1046
Basically, the withdrawal force should be close to pulling the trigger on a quality revolver.
If it feels less, then first try inverting the connection.
If that does not work, then replace the female.
If that does not work, then increasing the dimple on the male may make a difference, although difficult while mounted on starter.
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Basically, the withdrawal force should be close to pulling the trigger on a quality revolver.
Don't shoot the bike just yet we may be able to save it LOL
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Just to add a thought to the last couple posts: If you are able, verify the wire(s) in question aren't getting pulled on when the shift linkage is moving, thereby causing stress on a connection. Maybe something was routed wrong or came loose from a retaining clip.
I would hate to see you take your honey out only to experience another failure. She might appreciate it less than you.
John Henry
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(https://i.ibb.co/X5HTFyD/20190909-120036.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jwtF3Vz)
(https://i.ibb.co/L0gYZLX/20190909-120004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tH2QJ7T)
It appears I may have to eat some crow, after saying it was not the negative battery cable. I took off the side panels, and checked the wire that we thought was the problem. It was still attached. I could finally see where the negative battery cable was grounded to, which is the black wire there in question. On top of the first pic with the AF letters on it. You may be able to see that it was a little loose. I put about a full turn on it, and is much tighter. Needs about another quarter turn, but just couldn't get it, started to strip, It is in a very awkward position, and didnt have the exact took for it. Put back on the starter, and it worked as normal.
Last time I may have inadvertently knocked off that little 12v cable there, and just honed in on it. When if I took off the starter, maybe would have seen that as well. Because the 12v was still attached pretty well. The entire thing is pretty snug back there, messing with it may have pushed the negative cable for better contact. While I had it off, I did trace other wires, check other connections, didnt see any other problems.
I rode around my neighborhood for about 10 mins, shifting as many times as possible. Then let it idle in the driveway for about 30 minutes. Just to see if it would vibrate loose or die as it did yesterday. It did not. Again, it *appears* to be fixed. I am going to try and take it to get the recall brake issue fixed, and have them torque down on that bolt to get it as tight as possible.
A few kept saying battery connection (the pos was very secure), and I initially thought that as well. But when that 12v cable was off, I stopped looking. I dont mind admitting when wrong, and it appears I was. But again thanks to those for suggestions, and in the future I will look more broadly and keep double checking even if I think something is fixed. Going to ride it to work the next two days before date night, see what happens. Still nervous about it, but going to chance it. I feel like that was it, just needs a little more tightening. AND my windshield, and phone mount came in today too! All in all, not a bad day.
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:thumb: :bow: A wise man knows when he is wrong .
Or something like that , I think Will Rogers said it , or maybe Confucius .
Abe Lincoln ? Anyway , someone said it :laugh:
Dusty
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Most electrical problems are simple to fix. The issue is finding what *needs* to be fixed. :grin:
Then let it idle in the driveway for about 30 minutes.
:shocked: I would never do that without at least a box fan blowing on it. <shrug>
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Thats great news.
Thanks for the additional pictures.
I think others have also found a bad ground so don't feel bad, the main thing is you can start enjoying it.
Is that black wire connected to the chassis, it should be attached to a gearbox bolt IMHO, the largest current is to the starter so it should have a direct return to the battery.
Welcome to the forum.
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Just so everybody understands, no one in any dealership I am familiar with would be checking any of these things at new bike set up unless they knew there was a consistent problem with it. If I knew these bikes had a consistent problem with loose grounds I would have a look. Dealers need to rely on the maufacturer to provide a basically assembled unit, some minor assembly may be due to shipping conditions, a wheel, handlebars or something, main battery connections etc. But ground cable at frame or engine connection problems are quite unlikely. So as far as I am concerned this is a Guzzi problem not a dealer set up problem.
Brian
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You're right but I will tell you that any existing issue from the mfg will be compounded by Eurocycles & if there isn't one it's a lottery to discover the one(s) they create.
Glad you have seem to have sorted it out fallguy👏. Enjoy your MGX!
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Moto Guzzi, Making riders into
Mechanics Electricians since 1921 :bike-037:
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This is the second (maybe 3rd) time I've heard of this. When I was doing research before buying my MGX, I heard of this. I checked it when I took delivery. Mine was tight, but wonder if this is more common? Maybe the guy who installed the thrust washers on some V7ii's the wrong way was moved over to installing the main power cables on the 1400's? :drool:
Glad you got it sorted and was a simple fix. FWIW, even though the MGX has a fan on the oil cooler, letting idle for 30min is not a great idea. ENJOY your MGX!
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Most electrical problems are simple to fix. The issue is finding what *needs* to be fixed. :grin: :shocked: I would never do that without at least a box fan blowing on it. <shrug>
Yea, don’t let an air cooled motorcycle idle for a half hour!
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Piaggio, Making Guzzi riders into Electricians since 2004 :bike-037:
Fixed it for you... :laugh:
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Just so everybody understands, no one in any dealership I am familiar with would be checking any of these things at new bike set up unless they knew there was a consistent problem with it. If I knew these bikes had a consistent problem with loose grounds I would have a look. Dealers need to rely on the maufacturer to provide a basically assembled unit, some minor assembly may be due to shipping conditions, a wheel, handlebars or something, main battery connections etc. But ground cable at frame or engine connection problems are quite unlikely. So as far as I am concerned this is a Guzzi problem not a dealer set up problem.
Brian
Just so everyone understands, If you pay a couple hours labor for "setup" on a new bike, the so called "tech" in the shop had damn well better check simple things like ground cables.
And yes, I've worked at a couple dealerships.
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Just so everyone understands, If you pay a couple hours labor for "setup" on a new bike, the so called "tech" in the shop had damn well better check simple things like ground cables.
And yes, I've worked at a couple dealerships.
(https://i.ibb.co/QHFSXfb/bingo.gif) (https://ibb.co/QHFSXfb)
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Fixed it for you... :laugh:
Piaggio, Making Guzzi riders into Electronic techs since 2004
Fixed it for you.. :grin:
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it takes less time to pull both ends of both the positive and negative cables clean, lube and snug up than to write about an electrical problem. it's always the first thing to do with ANY electrical issue. car, cycle, house etc.
it only took me 20 years to learn that.
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Fixed it for you.. :grin:
We just fix everything around here. :wink:
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We just fix everything around here. :wink:
Actually, that's pretty much true.. :grin: Fixed the hydrostatic drive on my mower..
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Actually, that's pretty much true.. :grin: Fixed the hydrostatic drive on my mower..
And I am amazed you didn't drown rescuing that vehicle from the lake in your front yard. I consider you a hero and renaissance man, for this and legitimate reasons too.
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340 posts in this Sportster Forum thread to find a chassis ground issue on a Sportster.
Kev may remember it. The issue was not cable nor ring tongue connector, but internal thread corrosion.
http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1891463&highlight=sportsterdoc&page=35
I have been preaching both ends of both battery cables for a LONG time.
See bottom of post one of this thread
http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1986193
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Did the OP pay for dealer set-up or was the bike forwarded in the factory crate?