Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rough Edge racing on October 07, 2019, 11:53:03 AM
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My neighbor runs a small motorcycle/atv shop out of his garage. He has a dealer license so picks up bikes at auctions. he has a 2016 Hyosung GT650R with minor cosmetic damage for $1000, probably take $800 for it...Reviews of these bikes say they function pretty much the same as the SV650 Suzuki but with a more vinration and less refinement...The later models seem have have been improved, better brakes etc...
I'm have little interest in this Korean machine but do any of you have actual riding experience? What did you think of it?
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Bad Chad has a South Korean dp bike. IIRC.
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The engines are alright , but the suspension is really poor , and the fit and finish leaves a lot to be desired .
Dusty
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Good candidate for a dedicated rain hike.
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Actually I have a CSC Zong made in China. I’ve read about the Korean bike for 800 bucks I’d be willing to give it a shot.
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Correction noted. Same continent. :rolleyes:
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I just put down a deposit on a 1964 Yamaha 125 single. I haven't even seen it yet but figure it will make a good run around town bike. My Audace is kind of overkill for a 2 mile ride to the post office and back. I figure it would be better bike than one of these disposable Asian cheap wannabe's. Besides it will take me back to my first riding days, a 1964 Yamaha 80, YG1t. For $600 I can't go too wrong. :thumb:
kk
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I know I've said it before, but I can't recommend any higher the CSC 250c from https://www.cscmotorcycles.com
I have over 2000 miles on my 250TT and it has been perfect. Came delivered to my door with gas in the tank, ready to ride!
Very good quality, and lots of fun. I don't have any experience with the Rx3 and Rx4, but the little 231cc air cooled motor is a clone of an old Honda, it appears to be near bullet proof.
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I know I've said it before, but I can't recommend any higher the CSC 250c from https://www.cscmotorcycles.com
I have over 2000 miles on my 250TT and it has been perfect. Came delivered to my door with gas in the tank, ready to ride!
Very good quality, and lots of fun. I don't have any experience with the Rx3 and Rx4, but the little 231cc air cooled motor is a clone of an old Honda, it appears to be near bullet proof.
You always hear about these bikes being junk... but being that most that buy them, do NOTHING to them, and just throw them away when done.. I wonder how they last with some care given to them? Someone that's willing to keep up on the services, and repair when needed.
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You always hear about these bikes being junk... but being that most that buy them, do NOTHING to them, and just throw them away when done.. I wonder how they last with some care given to them? Someone that's willing to keep up on the services, and repair when needed.
It doesn't seem that many if any have actual expereince with the GT650...If a casual potential bike buyer looked at issues with Guzzi's on this site, they might not want one...You only hear the bad stuff....
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It doesn't seem that many if any have actual expereince with the GT650...If a casual potential bike buyer looked at issues with Guzzi's on this site, they might not want one...You only hear the bad stuff....
Yes, that's what I was wondering. Sometimes the buy-in is so cheap, you do nothing because its disposable.. So was just kinda thinking out loud if the work/maintaince/care we put into our Guzzi's were done to a bike like this... would it infact be a good bike? Or are they great from the start, and that's why you never hear of them except from the few that are having issues?
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Comparing the Hyosung to the CSC is like comparing a platypus to a horse .
Also , I would surely hope any modern vehicle would be trouble free for 2,000 miles , sheesh , get back to us when it has at least 20,000 on the clock, or better yet 100,000 . Thanks .
Dusty
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We had a GV650 at the shop (HD VRod clone) that one of the regulars bought at the auto auction for approx $500. Cosmetically excellent & not a lot of miles on it, but it needed attention. It never progressed beyond that stage, partly because information unavailability making pursuit of parts a PIA effort. Thankfully it has left the shop.
It was a good example of a nice 20/20 bike (20 yards/20mph). If you didn't look too close or too hard, especially when parked beside a real VRod, it was fine. I would expect other models are comparable. Look into Parts availability and support first. We've found lack of consistent parts & reliable info to be the Achilles heel of the Chinese knock-off bikes & scooters. that Hyosung seemed to have similar issues, even if it is Korean and not Chinese. Maybe it's better with Hyusong now but ??
Otherwise, considering one to be a disposable bike may be the best strategy.
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I think it's a mistake to categorize a bike by where it is manufactured. As we know, BMW makes bikes in India, Triumph makes bikes in Thailand, Vespa makes scooters in China (by Zongshen), and darn near everyone buys component parts from China. At the heart of OP's question is would someone recommend buying the Hyosung GT650R. I'd be most concerned with the supply of spare parts and maintenance information. That's where CSC shines. They have every single part for the TT250 or RX3 in stock. They have on line tutorials for most maintenance. As Bad Chad mentioned, the 230cc pushrod engine on the TT250 is a clone of a Honda design that goes back to the beginning of time. It was designed for tough conditions in third world countries. It's understandable to want proof that the CSC bikes will last beyond a couple oil changes. There are a few in the US with over 20,000 miles and no issues. My RX3 is sitting at a bit less than 9K miles and no problems other than owner induced. It's a bargain but not bargain basement. Yes, the suspension components were where they cut costs. The same can be said for my much more expensive V7. Like the Guzzi, resale value is crap. Nevertheless, I'm awaiting delivery of my RX4, 450cc single. As an aside, Zongshen and Norton have a joint development deal that has produced a 650cc twin designed by Norton. That will be sold in a few versions, one called the Norton Atlas...the others as Zongshen. I'd take that as a strong vote of confidence in Zongshen's ability to produce a quality product. Bottom line, country of origin is an interesting topic but not (IMHO) the sole reason to buy or not buy a bike.
Peter Y.
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https://alpha-sports.com/hyosung_parts.htm
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... my first riding days, a 1964 Yamaha 80, YG1t.
Hey! That was my first bike, too! I beat the crap out of that thing, I remember my dad had ZERO interest in helping to buy repair parts for it, and the piston slap on that rotary-valve engine was audible from miles away, but I learned to pull that cyl and piston off with my eyes closed and is probably why I STILL say that a 2-stroke is the best engine for a dirt bike.
Poor little thing always ran, couldn't kill it.
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I think it's a mistake to categorize a bike by where it is manufactured.
Peter Y.
Things can change over the years. Used to be (post war) that Japanese-manufactured things that we got here in the USA were cheap junk; but that changed over time.
If someone said "Here, I've got a 1980 Honda Civic, a 1980 Hindustan Ambassador, a 1980 Dongfeng C71, a 1980 Volvo, a 1980 Yugo, a 1980 Saab, a 1980 BMW, and a 1980 Ford Taurus. Which one would you choose for longevity and quality?" .... you KNOW there would be a difference, and why there would be a difference.
Could very well be a different choice order today, but the differences have never been negligible.
Lannis
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The big change is computers, software to operate them and CNC manufacturing techniques'.
Has changed everything and pretty much leveled the playing field.
:-)
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Korea and China build lots of good stuff , but the older Hyosung motorbikes had poor metallurgy . They were not up to any type of modern standards.
Dusty
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The big change is computers, software to operate them and CNC manufacturing techniques'.
Has changed everything and pretty much leveled the playing field.
:-)
I think it's way more than that.
Like, what's the educational and skills pool of the workers and engineers that the manufacturer can draw from?
What level of quality, over many years, have the customers of the manufacturers of cars in a particular market come to expect?
What's the relationship between the management and the workers? "We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us?" or something different?
I think it's much more about people, and not so much about CNC machines. Someone's still got to operate, feed, and maintain the manufacturing machines and assemble, finish, and distribute the vehicles ....
Lannis
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Where it's made is immaterial at that price. Buy it, ride it and if it dies push it over a bank. How can you go wrong for $800?
Yes, it's like a more crude and less refined SV650.
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I think it's way more than that.
Like, what's the educational and skills pool of the workers and engineers that the manufacturer can draw from?
What level of quality, over many years, have the customers of the manufacturers of cars in a particular market come to expect?
What's the relationship between the management and the workers? "We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us?" or something different?
I think it's much more about people, and not so much about CNC machines. Someone's still got to operate, feed, and maintain the manufacturing machines and assemble, finish, and distribute the vehicles ....
Lannis
Well I think we have a different take on that subject.
I think that before the computers and numerically controlled machines it was all about the people, but now you can buy the machines and software , import it and with just a few management and supervisors teach anybody how to push the buttons.
And its repeatable down to the last detail.
Literally all materials and supporting parts (raw or otherwise) can be had quickly (relativity) anywhere on the planet.
A good example of this is in Asia and countries like Korea are known for excellent manufacturing expertise and quality.(from a largely agrarian society)
When I grew up the difference in quality between Ford, Chevy, mopar, was the people, not any more.
:-)
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Well, a lot of that is true-but when Hyosung started selling in the US there was a tour/documentary article on the plant-and most of the Hyosung line was not as automated as Suzuki for the SV. It was noted in the article how much more labor was used in many steps.
That was some time back, No idea what's happened in the lst 10 years.
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Well, a lot of that is true-but when Hyosung started selling in the US there was a tour/documentary article on the plant-and most of the Hyosung line was not as automated as Suzuki for the SV. It was noted in the article how much more labor was used in many steps.
That was some time back, No idea what's happened in the lst 10 years.
Yep, things change and what was true 10 or 20 years ago may not be true anymore.
But kirby1923, (as we Guzzi owners know) there is MUCH MUCH more to producing a vehicle than machining crankshafts and engine cases. The machined parts can all be PERFECT, and yet the final product can have huge design flaws (camshaft or cam follower hardening), poorly designed welds that crack, bearings put together with no grease, paint improperly applied, heat treating not done right, assembly jigs not set up straight .... I spent my working life in manufacturing high precision machined weldments, and the CNC machining is a very small part of what makes a complete vehicle run, and if the workers don't know (easily fixed) or don't care (NOT so easily fixed) how to produce the final product, it's going to act like a piece of junk regardless of how the transmission gears sparkle ....
Lannis
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Yep, things change and what was true 10 or 20 years ago may not be true anymore.
But kirby1923, (as we Guzzi owners know) there is MUCH MUCH more to producing a vehicle than machining crankshafts and engine cases. The machined parts can all be PERFECT, and yet the final product can have huge design flaws (camshaft or cam follower hardening), poorly designed welds that crack, bearings put together with no grease, paint improperly applied, heat treating not done right, assembly jigs not set up straight .... I spent my working life in manufacturing high precision machined weldments, and the CNC machining is a very small part of what makes a complete vehicle run, and if the workers don't know (easily fixed) or don't care (NOT so easily fixed) how to produce the final product, it's going to act like a piece of junk regardless of how the transmission gears sparkle ....
Lannis
Ha!
ALL due respect but the state of the art manufacturing techniques are far more sophisticated than what you're describing w/every procedure planed and checked so companies like KIA can offer 100K warranty on their cheapest autos. (allot of robotic assembly )
Parts and procedures computer monitored and controlled! sooner or later all manufactures will have reasonably priced access to same.
We are talking cars and motos not nuclear or high pressure steam pluming.
:-)
(mike)
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Precise machining is why new vehicle engines with just routine oil changes can run well over 200K miles even when driven hard..But there are some problems and usually they are from defective materials or improper installation...Reca lls because machining debris was left in the engine and ruined the rings, porous engine and head castings, loose pistons, broken valve springs etc...We're taking major auto makers, not Moto Guzzi ,lol....
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Ha!
ALL due respect but the state of the art manufacturing techniques are far more sophisticated than what you're describing w/every procedure planed and checked so companies like KIA can offer 100K warranty on their cheapest autos. (allot of robotic assembly )
Parts and procedures computer monitored and controlled! sooner or later all manufactures will have reasonably priced access to same.
We are talking cars and motos not nuclear or high pressure steam pluming.
:-)
(mike)
Well, as always, time will tell. There were reasons in the past, when everyone had access to the same manufacturing technology, why Ladas and Trabants didn't compare to BMWs and Volvos, and why Chang Jiangs, Jupiters, and Dneprs couldn't compete with ... well, anyone. Simply making the manufacturing technology more complex won't make it easier for people to use it effectively. It's why some countries make and export fighter planes and others can't. CNC and computers won't change that one bit! even if cars and bikes aren't airplanes and nuclear plants ....
Lannis
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OK quite right...I would argue that technology makes it LESS complex for the worker.
I'm a fair machinist (LOTS OF STUDY AND PRACTICE, but in my shop I can't even get close to the CNC operations as far as efficiency, a 6 axis Fadal can machine a whole engine block in the dark while I sleep at home. even change its on tools...(and repeatability.)
We are on different pages...so be it
I could give other examples from experience..but
Fun to discuss.... most likely a waste of time....
:-)
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Lannis, Nuclear power plants were built by tradesmen like me..A lot of hand built stuff done right on site. Every piece of conduit and wiring hand fitted to the situation, miles and miles of it. Same for a lot of the pipe and duct work .Endless quality inspections including measuring the depth of holes we drilled in concrete for anchors to support electrical and mechanical sytems..But they couldn't and didn't measure every hole or check the torque on every fastener..So the "attitude" of the worker played a role..Everything was overbuilt and costs beyond reason, mostly because it was funded by gov't money....
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Lannis, Nuclear power plants were built by tradesmen like me..A lot of hand built stuff done right on site. Every piece of conduit and wiring hand fitted to the situation, miles and miles of it. Same for a lot of the pipe and duct work .Endless quality inspections including measuring the depth of holes we drilled in concrete for anchors to support electrical and mechanical sytems..But they couldn't and didn't measure every hole or check the torque on every fastener..So the "attitude" of the worker played a role..Everything was overbuilt and costs beyond reason, mostly because it was funded by gov't money....
All true. Hand-building a power plant is not like building a car.
But you have to have a hell of a lot of infrastructure in place to build cars. You have to have supply chains that will support your quality requirements. You have to have transportation to bring in raw materials and ship out product on time and right. You have to have people who believe that your quality systems mean something and will implement them. You have to have personnel systems that will put the right people in places to buy material, inspect things, move things, paint things, assemble things. Machines can't do any of this stuff. And not every culture can put all of this together and make it happen, machines or no machines .....
Lannis
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Back to the original topic, check what year it is the very early ones had an issue with connecting rods or something similar, the latter FI ones by all accounts aren't bad but you have to keep their price point in mind.
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The engine is essentially a Suzuki and over here they were extremely popular for a while.
One interesting story I heard from a Canberra shop who have no reason to lie to me is of a young Asian bloke, can't remember if he was Japanese or Korean, who flew into Perth for his 'Holiday of a lifetime' and bought a Hyo to circumnavigate the country. When he got to near Canberra it dropped a valve and was transported to this shop who diagnosed the issue and slapped in a warranty claim.
Now fascinated as to why this had happened and having examined the bike as it came apart they'd realised that it was essentially stuffed! Chain like knicker elastic, never been adjusted, lots of other evidence that the lad didn't have much of a clue so they phoned up SBS, our 'Foreign Language' TV station who also run a translation service and they sent down one of their girls who spoke either Korean or Japanese and they gave him the third degree as to why his bike was 'Donald Ducked' after such a short time.
After a few minutes the young lady managed to glean that he'd never ridden anything bigger than a 150cc scooter before and while he'd mastered the clutch hadn't been told that to change out of first gear you had to LIFT the gear lever! He thought you just pressed down, released the clutch and then turned the go handle like scooter!
This kid had ridden across the Nullarbor some 3,700 km in first gear, bouncing it off the rev limiter, before it finally cried 'Uncle' and dropped a valve! It must of been torture!
Anyway Hyosong supplied a new motor under warranty and the blokes at the shop shouted him a 'Stay Upright' course before they waved him on his way, now able to change out of first!
So Hyosongs can't be all bad! :thumb:
Pete
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Back to the original topic, check what year it is the very early ones had an issue with connecting rods or something similar, the latter FI ones by all accounts aren't bad but you have to keep their price point in mind.
The bike is a 2016 as mentioned in my original post...Low miles, he bought it at an auction, clean title..I believe all the electrial components are from the various suppliers used by the Japanese bikes...My neighbors fiend took used the bike for a 100 mile Sunday ride...He claims it's not bad at all...