Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yukonica on October 22, 2019, 09:28:39 PM
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I have this weird urge to fly south (in an airplane) next spring to buy a used middleweight sport touring machine to ride home. My V7 is a great 'little' bike but I'd like some creature comfort and another 45 horses at the throttle when I visit friends in Palmer or Fairbanks; a thousand km away. Hatchers Pass on the V7 is a blast. Getting there is not as much fun. So I've begun looking for a machine. I don't want a behemoth sport touring machine that I'd need a tow truck to get it back on two wheels if I dropped it in a parking lot. I don't need a 'adventure bike'. I live here. I ride pavement 95 % of the time (between construction zones). Honda VFR 800 and BMW F800GT are where my skills and mind set are. There is nothing on the market I'd want to buy new.
If the poster child engine for the new 850 was wrapped in street clothes instead of hiking shoes, a Lemans 5... ish, I'd be there.
Pick a manufacturer, a model, and a year. Where are the bikes that just do the job without the Africa Twin tour the world marketing?
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Triumph tiger 1050. Done
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VFR>F800
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Versys 1000LT.
The 17" front wheel means it's definitely not an Adventure bike.
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Older inline 4 cylinder jap bike could easily fit that description
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1st or 2nd generation Norge fits the bill quite well...550 lbs, creature comforts, a blast to ride, enough wind protection, and if you did drop it, you could pick it up.
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1st or 2nd generation Norge fits the bill quite well...550 lbs, creature comforts, a blast to ride, enough wind protection, and if you did drop it, you could pick it up.
Norge is far and away my first choice. Had my target lined up but it was a good deal and I knew it wouldn't be around before I'd be down south. I'd actually prefer a 2 valve but will look at what comes my way. The F800GT is next best in my mind but it is belt drive. Never owned or ridden belt vehicle. Picking up rocks in construction zones concerns me.
I know a bunch of HD guys up here but I rarely see them more than 100 km from a town. Belts may not be an issue... or it might. Has anyone won a Dakar or a GP on a belt vehicle?
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Any VFR (Honda 750), from '90 to '97. 100 hp at the crank, single side swing arm, under $2,000..simply brilliant. Probably can sell for same price as purchased in that year range.
:-)
I had a 1983 vf750f (the original cam-eater) that I put 75,000km on. I'd buy a vfr in a heart beat if it presents itself.
One 'want' is hard-shell panniers. My V7 has Hepco Jrs. Don't know why it took me forty years to get a backpack off my back. (?stupid?)
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here's mine, 450 lb and 113 HP
(https://g2.img-dpreview.com/58B36FCFEB05474F915BE73C284B5E23.jpg)
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here's mine, 450 lb and 113 HP
(https://g2.img-dpreview.com/58B36FCFEB05474F915BE73C284B5E23.jpg)
Beauty! ST are on my list too. ST3 in particular. Know nothing of Ducati so maintenance intimidates me. There isn't a shop within 2000 km of here. If I buy it; I maintain it.
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That's the icing on the cake, there is a Honda dealer in every town of ...10K+ population...
Try that with a Duc or Guzzi..support important in an unknown history.
I like the idea and have done it ...adventure for sure.
Another choice is the Suzuki GS fours.. pretty much bullet proof, cheap and shaft possible.(although I prefer chain.
When I bought this V7 it arrived in Yukon in the same shipping crate it had left in from Italy. There were 12 kilometers on the clock. I'd never sat on a modern Guzzi. I hadn't sat on a Guzzi since 1985. And... I know diddly squat about mechanics.
oh! Look! A cliff! Let's jump off!
The V7's simplicity and the gracious sharing of knowledge here-in has made owning this bike one of the most satisfying machines in my life. It will remain so. Never for sale. When I can't ride, it will get parked in my sunroom.
But, I do want to make use of the freedom from traffic up here and a middle weight would be about perfect to run to Alaska and back on long weekends. There isn't much of a pre-owned supply in a market this small so getting south to Edmonton/Calgary or Vancouver is my only option. I'll fly-in with helmet and leathers on Monday and start home on Wednesday ... so to speak. I figure any properly maintained modern machine will hit 100,000 km pretty easily. The bike I'll be looking for will have something in the 30k-60k km range. As long as it is freshly serviced and has good rubber I'll be dodging bison on my way home in no time.
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When I did my first US tour back in 2004 I did it on an ancient, (Albeit well set up.) Convert. Neither a fast or a powerful bike but by avoiding interstates I not only met interesting people and saw interesting places but had enormous fun as well.
A 'Vert produces 45 RWHP on a good day, down a mineshaft, with a following gale! If time isn't a major concern and you're travelling solo I wouldn't discount your V7.
If you want something a bit roomier though? Early Norges or Brevas are cheap. All I'd suggest replacing the swingarm bearings and shock linkage before you go on a long trip but apart from that? Get on and go.
Alternatives, non Guzzi? V Strom or an older Japanese four of some sort can be had for next to nothing. If I come back to the US again they will probably be my vehicle of choice, until I see a nice Griso of course..... :rolleyes: :boozing:
Pete
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V7 is more than capable of touring. I know guys that travel Oz on old 2 stroke Vespas. Having said that, Breva or Bellagio if you can find one over there or wait and see what Guzzi do next with the new 850 donk.
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The question with sport tourers is always, do you want more touring or more sport? VFRs, Triumphs are nice bikes but you have to like and be able to tolerate long stretches of that riding position. I have had Harleys and a Victory with a belt drive and really like it. I think it is the best compromise between a chain and shaft, but, I only ride on unpaved roads on extremely rare occasions. The next question is what is middle weight for you. If a gold wing is pushing 900 lbs, is a 630 lb bmw RT middle weight? Lots of those for cheap. Rarer are the RS version of the boxer, but they are more like 550 lbs. Paralever and telelever were great inovations as long as you change to aftermarket shocks. The bikes are roomy which ads to longer term comfort. Just some thoughts. But I think the first question I posed is the first one you have to answer.
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Several years ago I owned two 1998 Honda VFR's; great sport-touring bikes. You can buy a brand new left-over one now (2016?) for less than $10,000. I sold mine because, even with bar-risers, the riding position became too uncomfortable on long rides for someone my age (I was 65 at the time). If I were younger I would certainly be interested in buying another VFR and use it for cross-country rides.
I replaced them with a Norge and a BMW F800GT. I love both bikes; on the surface they might seem to be too similar to justify owning both. However, there are significant differences between them, and I use them for different types of riding. The Norge is, by far, more comfortable for cross-country tours, especially if they involve high-speed riding on interstates. I also use it for local two-up day rides.
The F bike is capable of cross-country touring, and I have taken a few 5-6,000 mile rides on it, but it is not as roomy as the Norge, and the motor gets a bit buzzy at interstate speeds. The wind protection on the stock BMW just plain sucks, but a proper after market windscreen and foil will take care of that problem. I currently use the BMW mainly as a commuter, and for one-up sporty day rides; as it is more nimble than the Norge. I do love the belt drive on the F bike.
I plan to buy a new bike in the next year or so; none the current offerings are suitable for me; don't want a pseudo-adventure-tourer like the Yamaha tracer or the v850tt; too tall for a short, old guy like me. Hopefully, Guzzi will come up with a sport-touring version of the new bike.
Jon
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Shesh, why are you guys recommending anything but a Guzzi?
Why not a 2 Valve Griso, mine was perfectly capable of running to the Arctic circle then back down to Salt Lake City
Where is Huzo when I need him, how many trips around Europe and Australia has his red beauty 2V Norge done?
Do a fly and ride somewhere back East to pick up a low mileage bike from someone on the board that feels like he needs to downsize.
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I would think the VFR if you are talking "sport touring," but I don't know any thing about them. I'm only *assuming* a Honda would be bullet proof. I would say Norge, but I do know something about them, and I don't like the electronics. I'd avoid a belt drive if there is a lot of gravel. I'd avoid a Duck like the plague if you don't work on them. Likewise, Bavarian Money Wasters are just that if you don't work on them, and sometimes you can't. "That'll be two thousand dollars, sir.." :smiley:
Yeah, you need hard bags. Like Pete, I'd go anywhere on the old G5, but there is a certain amount of maintenance involved. That leads me back to Honda.
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Yamaha FJ09? Light,fast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdnLnCxGEtw
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Like Kiwi Roy, I'd recommend an 1100 Griso, in particular, my own 1100 Griso with a coated dash PCB and electronic cruise control.
But you can't have it. So maybe a Honda with a cruise control would be nice.
Moto
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Beauty! ST are on my list too. ST3 in particular. Know nothing of Ducati so maintenance intimidates me. There isn't a shop within 2000 km of here. If I buy it; I maintain it.
The Duc Supersport 939 requires valve adjustments every 18k miles, looks a lot more difficult than a Guzzi. So yeah, I'll have a mechanic do it. If you're an adept guy, you can rent a kit with tools, consumables and instructions for DIY. It doesn't look crazy hard but I wouldn't try it without someone holding my hand (I am the least mechanical person on the board).
For routine maintenance, you'll need some specialized tools, like a rear stand, wheel sockets and an impact gun. All of it is pretty straight forward.
Cons for the bike are short range (140 miles average) and buzzy mirrors. Also, the fasteners broke on the saddle back mount (Givi is OEM supplier). No electric cruise control. Touring Sport tires have a short life.
Power is good, handling is phenomenal, brakes are great. Most comfortable bike I own. ABS and traction control are seamless. Styling is nice too. It's the safest bike I've ever ridden and perhaps the fastest I've ever owned. It's certainly the most capable and user friendly motorcycle I've ever ridden for sporty riding on twisty roads and would take it over a low bar full sportbike any day for that. For me it would outperform a full on sportbike in every way on the street other than pinning the throttle.
It seems to be the logical successor to the VFR (lighter, better and faster) I am told and has a better tuck riding position and suspension than the FJ-09 IMO. If you want an upright ride, the Yamaha would be a better choice and has electric cruise and more top end power. If Yamaha had made the 900 triple into a bike like the Duc, I'd consider it.
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Set up my '18 t120 Bonnie as a day ride/long distance sport tourer. 1200cc's, cruise, simple info/ride modes. Canada twice, most of the west, 9K w/ no problems. Easy to ride 350-600 mile days. The only issue for some might be the chain drive. Non issue for me.
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Vstrom 650 or SV650...same engine, bullet proof, can be had on the cheap.
Vstrom if you need more room, SV if short and light is your style.
This is the bike I always suggest to new owners because they won't outgrow it in a few years. You could start and end your riding career with one of these...the same one.
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Surprised nobody has mentioned the Triumph Tiger 800. I will be seriously considering one once I get the Guzzi out of the garage.
(https://images.triumphmotorcycles.co.uk/media-library/images/motorcycles/adventure-touring/base%20layers/cm3-rhs-lucerne-blue1920x1080.png?bc=transparent&mw=243)
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Yamaha FJ09? Light,fast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdnLnCxGEtw
Absolutely. Light, powerful, great handling, reliable and with good dealer support, can be found inexpensively.
A helluva bargain, and a fine all-around bike.
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I would think the VFR if you are talking "sport touring," but I don't know any thing about them. I'm only *assuming* a Honda would be bullet proof. I would say Norge, but I do know something about them, and I don't like the electronics. I'd avoid a belt drive if there is a lot of gravel. I'd avoid a Duck like the plague if you don't work on them. Likewise, Bavarian Money Wasters are just that if you don't work on them, and sometimes you can't. "That'll be two thousand dollars, sir.." :smiley:
Yeah, you need hard bags. Like Pete, I'd go anywhere on the old G5, but there is a certain amount of maintenance involved. That leads me back to Honda.
Not so fast...VFRs are known to fry their stators. At about 50,000kms. Seems accurate as 2 guys I know have had theirs fail. Resolved on the "newer" ones. My buddy has a 2014 and loves it.
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(https://i.ibb.co/tq01LWs/IMG-4547-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tq01LWs)
Get one of these. Excellent sport tourer.
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Absolutely. Light, powerful, great handling, reliable and with good dealer support, can be found inexpensively.
A helluva bargain, and a fine all-around bike.
The new sport touring definition. Mine has been great. Only issue is it begs you to ride like a hooligan.
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I see a V11S above. Yes, it's a really good sport tourer. The Mighty Scura is 500 lbs empty, though. I don't know if it would qualify as a middle weight.
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The Honda VFR1200X is a very capable sport tourer, though it has some ADV styling cues. Shaft drive, V4, spoked tubeless wheels, dual clutch auto or 6-speed, and big discounts for leftover '16s and '17s. I've heard of discounts as high as 40%. The NC750F is similar, but much less motor. Both are street machines that should not undertake any more than a graded gravel road. Think of them as upright sport-tourers; Honda calls them "Crosstourers."
(https://i.ibb.co/JvZkxXB/IMG-0596.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Put a Windjammer on a V7III and away you go. Sport Touring is a fairly new term and doesn't define anything.
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It appears to me after some reflection on reading this thread, that the most ideal mid weight mentioned tourist bikes have been dressed up as sport bikes or are certain good vintage naked UJMs.
Since there was not much styling happening with more utilitarian vintage bikes, it is safe to say that with some exceptions, mid weight tourist bikes have evolved into a very highly styled sporty look. The less sporty examples are the dressed up mid weight touring bikes.
This is a pretty natural progression for motor vehicles in general as we see countless examples through the decades of GT and Sport model cars that were lumbering underpowered evolutions of the 'family truckster". The exception would be Pickup Trucks and Jeeps which are sporty in their own way and in motorcycles these are represented by GoldBlings/Road Hogs and Adventure Bikes.
So, it is no surprise to me that low to mid-end big engined sport bikes are really mules in wolf's clothing.
What young spitfire of demographic statistic in his peak earning years wants to buy a motorcycle analogous to a Rambler?
Its those darn marketing gurus burning the midnight olio again.
An older GSXR would be a candidate. Chain drive allows smaller rear sprocket for higher gearing. 750 or 850 Suzuki are potent tough engines. The GSXR 1100, though really a mid weight, wouid feel like one compared to an Electraglide or a Wing.
The new Honda Interceptor looks like a possible future candidate, especially if it is a sales flop.
better stick to the V7...
A whole world of modifications await.
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The whole reason I'm on this site is that I'm looking for a mid-weight sport-touring bike, and a couple of Guzzis are on my shortlist.
I'm not necessarily looking for a lower power or smaller engine bike, but I want a sport-tourer with a bit of a bias towards the sport, and a wet weight of less than 600lbs.
My current main contenders are:
Ducati 939 SuperSport (someone pictured one above)
Moto Guzzi Griso or Norge
KTM 1290 SDGT
Kawasaki Ninja H2 SX SE (haven't had a chance to test this one yet)
Honda VFR1200 (haven't had a chance to test this one yet, either)
I was looking seriously at the Motus MST, but they've quit making them.
There are actually a *lot* of sport-touring bikes on the market, but if I go with wet weight under 600lbs, that narrows the field quite a lot.
I don't care for adventure bikes, and I'm short, so the Ducati MS and the Aprilia Caponord, among others, are out.
I'm currently leaning towards the Duc 939SS, although the Guzzis are still in contention, and I need to testride the two Japanese bikes.
The KTM is great to ride, and a stonking gonzo choice, but I can't get a good read on its longevity.
No one seems to put 100K+ on a KTM. I tend to keep my stuff a long time, and use it 'til it wears out, and I'm looking for my next bike to be something I'll turn over 250K on in about 2040.
I have tested the BMW F800 (several variants), and just didn't like the feel of it much. The belt drive is a plus for me -- combines the efficiency of a chain with the low maintenance of a shaft. On the road, belts are fine. Offroad, the getting-a-rock-caught-in-it issue is real, and that's why the F800GS has a chain. But I wouldn't worry about having a belt drive on the street. I just didn't gel with the rest of the bike.
PhilB
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(https://i.ibb.co/8YwbCCV/griso.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8YwbCCV)
So what is mid-weight anyway?
Electraglied 900
Goldwig 860
K1600 710
1980 Suz GS850G 602 ( I want one!)
My Honda NT700v 570
Norge 550
My 1981 Honda DOHC CB750 naked 540Lbs+/-
VFR800f 540?
CB1100 naked 540
Griso 1100 2v 540
R1150r 530
My V1000 G5 naked 510
BMW F850GS 510?
Royal Enfield Continental 650 Twin 490?
Kaw Versys 650cc: 475
My R100/7 naked 475
Triumph 1050 Tiger 470
V7 III naked 470
1978 Yamaha XS650 430
new CB500F 415 lbs
and the winner is?.... lots of honorable mentions...looks kinda like a Griso 1100 is the way to go for power to weight ratio on a "Mid Weight" touring bike. 6th gear would be perfect for coming down off the mountain passes, i hear.
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Clearly the problem is there is next to no consensus on what a “middle weight sport tour” is. O wonder you can’t find one, what mfg would want to market to such a fickle bunch?
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I've been happy as a clam with my '16 BMW R1200RS. I did 5,500 miles on it in two weeks this past Spring. Wet weight as shown in the photo below is about 520 lbs. I had to make a few ergo changes, but the bike was comfortable, had hard bags, cruise, ABS, TC, SC, shift assist, heated grips, and navigation. Handling and braking is superb and range is over 200 miles. Along with the unfaired R1200R and the new 1250 versions, I believe these are BMW's best bikes...
(https://i.ibb.co/jwxjQn4/42-B4811-E-603-D-4-B4-F-A28-C-FFF404621-A6-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HPM9b5g)
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Honda NC700X Should be a contender. Maybe a bit lower on the sport side but in the mid to upper 400# range, reasonable protection, reasonable fuel range, good acccessory market, dealers everywhere. Still in about the same HP range as a Guzzi 750. To me they look better in person than what I first saw in pictures.
GliderJohn
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I really like my Le Mans, but having this K75S around fills the need for a relatively light, nice handling reliable sport tourer.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZJKKwLt/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZJKKwLt)
(https://i.ibb.co/jZwzsRb/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jZwzsRb)
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The whole reason I'm on this site is that I'm looking for a mid-weight sport-touring bike, and a couple of Guzzis are on my shortlist.
I'm not necessarily looking for a lower power or smaller engine bike, but I want a sport-tourer with a bit of a bias towards the sport, and a wet weight of less than 600lbs.
My current main contenders are:
Ducati 939 SuperSport (someone pictured one above)
Moto Guzzi Griso or Norge
KTM 1290 SDGT
Kawasaki Ninja H2 SX SE (haven't had a chance to test this one yet)
Honda VFR1200 (haven't had a chance to test this one yet, either)
I was looking seriously at the Motus MST, but they've quit making them.
There are actually a *lot* of sport-touring bikes on the market, but if I go with wet weight under 600lbs, that narrows the field quite a lot.
I don't care for adventure bikes, and I'm short, so the Ducati MS and the Aprilia Caponord, among others, are out.
I'm currently leaning towards the Duc 939SS, although the Guzzis are still in contention, and I need to testride the two Japanese bikes.
The KTM is great to ride, and a stonking gonzo choice, but I can't get a good read on its longevity.
No one seems to put 100K+ on a KTM. I tend to keep my stuff a long time, and use it 'til it wears out, and I'm looking for my next bike to be something I'll turn over 250K on in about 2040.
I have tested the BMW F800 (several variants), and just didn't like the feel of it much. The belt drive is a plus for me -- combines the efficiency of a chain with the low maintenance of a shaft. On the road, belts are fine. Offroad, the getting-a-rock-caught-in-it issue is real, and that's why the F800GS has a chain. But I wouldn't worry about having a belt drive on the street. I just didn't gel with the rest of the bike.
PhilB
I gave you the business on the 939 but you're all over the map.
H2 and KTM are way more power and over the top. Might consider beetle bags on a Hayabusa too. You might check with Leroy,
he was an H2.
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Clearly the problem is there is next to no consensus on what a “middle weight sport tour” is. O wonder you can’t find one, what mfg would want to market to such a fickle bunch?
I know I was thinking 650 - 750 cc and under 475 lbs
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(https://i.ibb.co/8YwbCCV/griso.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8YwbCCV)
So what is mid-weight anyway?
Electraglied 900
Goldwig 860
K1600 710
1980 Suz GS850G 602 ( I want one!)
My Honda NT700v 570
Norge 550
My 1981 Honda DOHC CB750 naked 540Lbs+/-
VFR800f 540?
CB1100 naked 540
Griso 1100 2v 540
R1150r 530
My V1000 G5 naked 510
BMW F850GS 510?
Royal Enfield Continental 650 Twin 490?
Kaw Versys 650cc: 475
My R100/7 naked 475
Triumph 1050 Tiger 470
V7 III naked 470
1978 Yamaha XS650 430
new CB500F 415 lbs
and the winner is?.... lots of honorable mentions...looks kinda like a Griso 1100 is the way to go for power to weight ratio on a "Mid Weight" touring bike. 6th gear would be perfect for coming down off the mountain passes, i hear.
Boy did I miss this one.
I thought you were looking for a fly in and buy a used machine and have a good ride home and sell it.
I have been working out of the country for a while and at my first deployment I did exactly what I though you were looking for as fly into the states and buy a used machine and sell it at my destination. I'd look for a '90s VFR or a Suzuki 1100GS (touring) that I could buy cheap and sell w/o much loss..
Your final choice is a mystery to me as your selection has limited range and looks uncomfortable at best.. and will be a chore?? if you need service. (don't know anything about modern Guzzis as I always take care of mine myself, been several field repairs done w/ tape and such in a parking lot of a Loves truck stop.( my CX)
So what you were looking for was a keeper...Ah!
Duh...for me. I sometimes wonder why I post here...
Good luck w/ that.
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I gave you the business on the 939 but you're all over the map.
H2 and KTM are way more power and over the top. Might consider beetle bags on a Hayabusa too. You might check with Leroy,
he was an H2.
...and what am I now? Wait, don't answer that!
Bike ('19 H2 SX SE+) is crazy fast...so much so that I really appreciate the big-a&* shift indicator in my peripheral vision when I gas it while concentrating on any threats to my forward momentum. Lean angle display is addictive. Eco-mode idiot light is..ironic, to say the least. Bags and OEM farkles are outrageously expensive, saved a big chunk of change by getting them from Europe (and they arrived sooner than the stuff I could only get thru the dealer.) Valve clearance check at 15,200 miles. Chain adjustment tool (single sided swingarm) is a $100 OEM add-on, don't buy it..do some web research and get it at a much more reasonable price. Turns out the tool that came with my 916 works. Around 580lbs, but I wanted a road trip bike to replace the >800lb F6B. Cruise control, pre-programmed suspension adjustments for one up, one up with luggage, and two-up..and other modes including sport, road, and rain. Now, if I could I only find where the points are hiding..... :evil:
(https://i.ibb.co/NsVWvCK/P1050642.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NsVWvCK)
imagehost (https://imgbb.com/)
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Griso it is then.
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Surprised nobody has mentioned the Triumph Tiger 800. I will be seriously considering one once I get the Guzzi out of the garage.
(https://images.triumphmotorcycles.co.uk/media-library/images/motorcycles/adventure-touring/base%20layers/cm3-rhs-lucerne-blue1920x1080.png?bc=transparent&mw=243)
I just sold mine today (hopefully).
2013. 50k miles. $2,200. Worst purchase I ever made. Good riddance. Some are good. Mine was garbage. Do your due diligence.
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I just sold mine today (hopefully).
2013. 50k miles. $2,200. Worst purchase I ever made. Good riddance. Some are good. Mine was garbage. Do your due diligence.
Interesting. What problems did you have with it? I rode a rental 800 Tiger through the Alps last month. Mine, as a rental, was beat to death, but I could see the good points: great engine, smooth, good (enough) power. Loved the handling on all the switch-backs. Wide bar made easy work of it. All day comfort. My rental had the metal Triumph panniers. I hated them. They leaked like a sieve, and the right side had been tweaked in a tip-over and wouldn't latch and unlatch without force. The clutch was also fried, which led to some interesting moments :angry: But had the bike been in better shape....
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...and what am I now? Wait, don't answer that!
Bike ('19 H2 SX SE+) is crazy fast...so much so that I really appreciate the big-a&* shift indicator in my peripheral vision when I gas it while concentrating on any threats to my forward momentum. Lean angle display is addictive. Eco-mode idiot light is..ironic, to say the least. Bags and OEM farkles are outrageously expensive, saved a big chunk of change by getting them from Europe (and they arrived sooner than the stuff I could only get thru the dealer.) Valve clearance check at 15,200 miles. Chain adjustment tool (single sided swingarm) is a $100 OEM add-on, don't buy it..do some web research and get it at a much more reasonable price. Turns out the tool that came with my 916 works. Around 580lbs, but I wanted a road trip bike to replace the >800lb F6B. Cruise control, pre-programmed suspension adjustments for one up, one up with luggage, and two-up..and other modes including sport, road, and rain. Now, if I could I only find where the points are hiding..... :evil:
(https://i.ibb.co/NsVWvCK/P1050642.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NsVWvCK)
imagehost (https://imgbb.com/)
get 'em Leroy. :evil:
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Kirby1923 you are so close; fly-in, buy-it, ride home, then I'd use it to visit friends in Palmer (1000km one way) on weekends. I have ridden that route several times on my V7. With Brevetatto handle bars, Mupo suspension and adjustable Sato rear-sets the V7 fits me like a glove. However, behind a line of 6 or 7 RV's from the lower 48 waddling their way north to Alaska I have to plan every pass two kilometers back. I would like double the horses in the corral.
If Guzzi built a LeMans around the new 850 motor it would be plenty for me. I'd buy above my needs just to own one.
An old Norge will fit the bill nicely. Real world criteria exempts buying a stale-dated model from any manufacturer. The V7 will remain my principal bike. Whatever sport tourer is chosen will see no more than 10k km a summer. I'm 63, I'm on chemo, I don't expect any bike to see more than five summers of activity. Resale is irrelevant. The time I have left on the bike is very relevant. I want to travel at 140+ for ten hours a day in comfort without worrying about having a tool kit on board.
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I really like my Le Mans, but having this K75S around fills the need for a relatively light, nice handling reliable sport tourer.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZJKKwLt/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZJKKwLt)
(https://i.ibb.co/jZwzsRb/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jZwzsRb)
:thumb: also on the list. Haven't seen many in pre-owned lists but their reputation is strong.
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V7 is more than capable of touring. I know guys that travel Oz on old 2 stroke Vespas. Having said that, Breva or Bellagio if you can find one over there or wait and see what Guzzi do next with the new 850 donk.
If waiting was an option I'd agree with patience. These days the spelling is patients. My V7 has 50k km on it. I know it'll tour. If Pete Roper will stuff an 850 into that frame..... there's my ideal machine.
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...and what am I now? Wait, don't answer that!
Bike ('19 H2 SX SE+) is crazy fast...so much so that I really appreciate the big-a&* shift indicator in my peripheral vision when I gas it while concentrating on any threats to my forward momentum. Lean angle display is addictive. Eco-mode idiot light is..ironic, to say the least. Bags and OEM farkles are outrageously expensive, saved a big chunk of change by getting them from Europe (and they arrived sooner than the stuff I could only get thru the dealer.) Valve clearance check at 15,200 miles. Chain adjustment tool (single sided swingarm) is a $100 OEM add-on, don't buy it..do some web research and get it at a much more reasonable price. Turns out the tool that came with my 916 works. Around 580lbs, but I wanted a road trip bike to replace the >800lb F6B. Cruise control, pre-programmed suspension adjustments for one up, one up with luggage, and two-up..and other modes including sport, road, and rain. Now, if I could I only find where the points are hiding..... :evil:
(https://i.ibb.co/NsVWvCK/P1050642.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NsVWvCK)
imagehost (https://imgbb.com/)
Thank you. That's helpful info. I really need to just go testride one.
How is the build quality? Any indications as to its longevity, durability, reliability?
Thanks,
PhilB
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Some people are happy with a Griso as a touring bike and have gone that direction. For me that's not the purpose of the bike, and if I were to strike out for more than a few days to places unknown I'd take the EVT for sure: greater range, better tire life, much better weather protection, lots more luggage capacity, and room for the wife if she wants to come.
My Griso does get the (solo) weekend camping trips now, however, and I've got her set up to quickly get back to her "naked" self once I make my destination. I don't think of that as "touring" however.
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and the winner is?.... lots of honorable mentions...looks kinda like a Griso 1100 is the way to go for power to weight ratio on a "Mid Weight" touring bike. 6th gear would be perfect for coming down off the mountain passes, i hear.
I had a Griz 1100... Great bike, tight ergos, bad seat, shit range. Service isn't really ever needed when you do it yourself.
The ergos were helped by lowering the footpegs with a set from Knight Design (I gave them dimensions back in the day to get these made) http://www.knightdesignllc.com/Products/Motorcycle/Moto-Guzzi/Griso-1200/Moto-Guzzi-Griso-1200-Foot-Peg-Menu.html
The range is 125 miles. That sucks for a touring rig
Seat isn't for me on any ride more than an hour or so. It's not easily fixable, either.
People have toured on it, you can tour on anything.
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I was looking seriously at the Motus MST, but they've quit making them.
PhilB
I wouldn't discount this bike just because they stopped making them. You can get them new for ~$19-20k (most with bikes are looking to deal). Parts are available from LAP, most consumables are standard off the shelf stuff... I tour on mine all the time without worry. Fantastic bike.
I have two, one made into a naked bike:
https://motusmstr.blogspot.com/
https://2017motusmst.blogspot.com/
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I had a Griz 1100... Great bike, tight ergos, bad seat, shit range. Service isn't really ever needed when you do it yourself.
...
The range is 125 miles. That sucks for a touring rig
About 125 miles is the range to the low-fuel idiot light. There is gas in there typically good for 175 or more miles. You just need to pay attention to how hard you're riding.
The seat is not too good.
Moto
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I wouldn't discount this bike just because they stopped making them. You can get them new for ~$19-20k (most with bikes are looking to deal). Parts are available from LAP, most consumables are standard off the shelf stuff... I tour on mine all the time without worry. Fantastic bike.
I have two, one made into a naked bike:
https://motusmstr.blogspot.com/
https://2017motusmst.blogspot.com/
I would, however. If I was a typical rider that rode 2K a year and changed bikes every few years, yeah, I'd do it.
But I typically ride 11K to 14K per year, keep a good bike for 20 years or more, and depend on it for primary transportation, and that's not feasible with an orphan.
PhilB
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How about a nice Kawasaki Versys 1000. They come from the factory with hard bags and a rear rack.
It's sort of like a new-wave UJM. Chain. Upright riding position. Center stand.
ABS, traction control. 118 hp / 75 ft lbs torque (claimed)
Large fuel tank (5.5 gallons). Mine get's upper 40's to low 50 miles per gallon.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48952687042_92cbb6f9b3_b.jpg)
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I guess the line has been blurred between Sport-touring and Adventure-touring when we also have "Adventure-Styled Sport-Touring" motorcycles like Versys. LOL!
Anyway, traditional Sport-touring machines like Triumph Sprint, Ducati ST, BMW R-RS, Guzzi V11 LeMans, etc., have gone nearly extinct because the sport-touring riders that drove the market in the 1990s have gotten old and creaky, and switched to ADVbikes for the more comfy ergos.
Honda's VFR800 is about the last man standing...
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gone nearly extinct because the sport-touring riders that drove the market in the 1990s have gotten old and creaky, and switched to ADVbikes for the more comfy ergos.
Honda's VFR800 is about the last man standing...
Humm.
I can tell you that the rumors of our demise (we that creak) are greatly exaggerated!
Still have a old Italian that has rear sets and clip-ons, and she has a lot of miles left w/yours truly at the helm.
Ha!!!
:-)
BTW I did the GS thing when I was younger (before I knew better).
Viva La VFR, have a '97 the last of the best.
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I guess the line has been blurred between Sport-touring and Adventure-touring when we also have "Adventure-Styled Sport-Touring" motorcycles like Versys. LOL!
Anyway, traditional Sport-touring machines like Triumph Sprint, Ducati ST, BMW R-RS, Guzzi V11 LeMans, etc., have gone nearly extinct because the sport-touring riders that drove the market in the 1990s have gotten old and creaky, and switched to ADVbikes for the more comfy ergos.
Honda's VFR800 is about the last man standing...
(https://i.ibb.co/s2KVPMS/IMG-4591.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s2KVPMS)
Not extinct just yet !! Just back from 3 days in Texas Hill Country "Sport Touring". Even though I am getting a bit older and creaky..... :thumb:
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Buell S-3T The 76 R-75/6 airhead I have owned since 01 works great for me. Or a Guzzi 850 T-3 or Millie
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Lots of sporty bikes can adapt to touring. Handlebar setbacks and lowered foot pegs are available for many...just check out the Helibars or Knight design websites. Add a seat that works for you and maybe a taller screen and you can have the best of two riding styles...and you can pick your own weight and horsepower.
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Humm.
I can tell you that the rumors of our demise (we that creak) are greatly exaggerated!
Mike, you're a hard-charger! :bike-037:
(https://i.ibb.co/s2KVPMS/IMG-4591.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s2KVPMS)
Not extinct just yet !!
Try buying a new 2019 V11 LeMans. That's what I'm talking about.
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Interesting. What problems did you have with it? I rode a rental 800 Tiger through the Alps last month. Mine, as a rental, was beat to death, but I could see the good points: great engine, smooth, good (enough) power. Loved the handling on all the switch-backs. Wide bar made easy work of it. All day comfort. My rental had the metal Triumph panniers. I hated them. They leaked like a sieve, and the right side had been tweaked in a tip-over and wouldn't latch and unlatch without force. The clutch was also fried, which led to some interesting moments :angry: But had the bike been in better shape....
Bike went bye-bye today.
It had almost all the "known issues" except cracked frame. It burned oil from new, had two separate transmission failures in it's 3rd year, the horn quit after three years, heated grips failure, bad paint, bad powdercoat, bad anodization, front wheel hop, low compression on #3, soft wheel spacers... I know I'm missing a bunch of stuff.
Had it listed for 4 weeks for $2,450. A young man drove up from Chicago today and got it today. When he returned from a short test ride the battery was smoking. I'm assuming it was the voltage regulator. I happened to have a spare so I threw that in with it and let him haul it away for $2,200.
I'll never own another Triumph. That was enough for me. Paid $12,800 for it, added $3,000 in accessories and sold it with $400-$500 in spare parts (software, service manual, voltage regulator, and dozens of filters, seals gasket, o-rings, ect) for $2,200.
You can't even mention issues with these online. "Your bike is just a lemon..."you need a better mechanic".. etc. It's maddening. Never again. BMW prices, Ural quality.
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Wow! That's a shame. I've always wondered about the quality of "Taiwan Triumphs." I love the look of the new 1200 Scrambler, but if ever I bought one, I would buy used and let someone else eat the first couple of years depriciation.
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Had a 2013 Street Triple R. Ate its reed valve and had some ABS electronic issues that were intermittent and seldom occurring. For the most part it was an excellent sport naked.
As soon as the warranty expired, it was traded in on a 2015 Yamaha FJ09 (Tracer). No problems with it and now at 30K miles. Well except for a bolt pierced the radiator going down the road. But that's not the bikes fault. If you want sport bike ergo, this isn't it. But if you want a quick, efficient, excellent handling and comfortable sporting tourer, the new tracers are hard to beat. My wife rides ours as her go to traveling bike. She has a 32" inseam and handles the seat height just fine. My son has a 2016 that has been flawless as well. He has about 25K miles on his.
Upright ergos seem a popular trend for the segment.
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Vstrom 650 or SV650...same engine, bullet proof, can be had on the cheap.
Vstrom if you need more room, SV if short and light is your style.
This is the bike I always suggest to new owners because they won't outgrow it in a few years. You could start and end your riding career with one of these...the same one.
Amen. I've owned both. V-Strom are surprisingly comfortable, and SV are shockingly competent and versatile to anyone who has never riden one. Everything I have ever read says the 650 is a better bike than the 1000 in both guises. Personal experience backs that up.
Another surprisingly good bike is a Kawasaki Versos 650. Very inexpensive and versatile.
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Well,
It seems you need something that can cover long distances quickly and reliably. The Norge is a great machine, but it's at the point that it's become difficult to do all your own maintenance and if you need an electrical component - it may be awhile in coming.
I would humbly suggest an older BMW RS series, or from my own personal experience a pre 06 Kawasaki Concours. They are simple bikes, easy to maintain, and pretty much bullet proof. I put 70K miles on mine in Europe at 140-160kph for hours on end. Aftermarket is good - I run a much lower windshield than stock. Hard bags, easy to mount a trunk. They were made for two decades with only minor changes. They are a bit heavy, but are no slouch on a curvy road. Have done hundreds of Alpine passes on mine. The best can be had for less than $3K.
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R1200RS
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So many choices it is ridiculous. Options are endless on Craigs List nationwide. This is the Golden Age of Motorcycles. You can buy a perfectly sound motorcycle with full luggage for $3-5 thousand and less than 25,000 miles. Call a buddy. Plan a trip. Pack your stuff. Hit the twisties and pin the throttle and go have a "sporty-touring adventure." Scare yourself a little. Make some grins and memories. People spend more time talking about bikes than actually riding them. Rant over.
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My Sport tourer, available factory hard cases, has shaft drive, linked ABS brakes, when I use it as a work commuter it gets 43 mpg @ 70 mph. Throttle by wire so you can get a plug n play electronic cruse control for it. (A guy in Europe sells the kit) Cruise all day @ 150 mph without breaking a sweat.....mine is the DCT model. Has that V4 low end grunt with the high end rush like an I4. Very good prices on used bikes....you can save 10-15k over these New ST’s. I do love the Ducati Multistrada’s (test rode a 2013)but stay away from the brand because of all the problems reported on the forums.
(https://i.ibb.co/NydhwPv/25003276-AA6-B-41-F8-960-C-FDBE6-F8-EF104.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NydhwPv)
(https://i.ibb.co/W5rT8M4/81518969-4-BAD-46-E1-AE6-C-EDFC64-A9-B481.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W5rT8M4)
(https://i.ibb.co/7v9CWtt/CDF3-D8-AE-2203-4787-AC85-D4-FA75285-D7-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7v9CWtt)
(https://i.ibb.co/CMrWn8S/2-F15-F7-CB-8-EBE-47-F8-9382-37707-BD5076-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CMrWn8S)
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Shesh, why are you guys recommending anything but a Guzzi?
Where is Huzo when I need him, how many trips around Europe and Australia has his red beauty 2V Norge done?
Five Europe’s, multiple Aussie criss crosses.
Will be six after 2021.
(https://i.ibb.co/0nqR7MD/9-D9-C9787-941-A-48-A8-806-E-3-AA1-A6840-BDE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0nqR7MD)
(https://i.ibb.co/TrbdCLF/B1-CBED12-4796-46-BF-9-CB1-F95-CEF843010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TrbdCLF)
(https://i.ibb.co/TMJGDtQ/DA05-DC4-F-B400-4726-8-F8-E-687-C29-BFF345.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TMJGDtQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/hg5MyhX/60-D1-D870-8-EEC-4029-ACDF-1838-B99-ABE5-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hg5MyhX)
(https://i.ibb.co/HrYNNm0/F866073-E-976-C-4-C28-A0-CF-F0-E6669914-FC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HrYNNm0)
image hosting site free (https://imgbb.com/)
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Wow! That's a shame. I've always wondered about the quality of "Taiwan Triumphs." I love the look of the new 1200 Scrambler, but if ever I bought one, I would buy used and let someone else eat the first couple of years depriciation.
There are no Triumphs made in Taiwan.
I used to live in Chonburi Thailand where they are made. Also the Ducati scrambler series are made in Thailand too.
From the Triumph website FAQ,
Where are Triumph’s factories based?
Triumph has six-world class factories around the world. Two of these factories are based in Hinckley in the UK, just a stone’s throw from the Mallory Park race track. There are also three factories in Chonburi, Thailand, and one in Manaus, Brazil. Every Triumph motorcycle begins its life in Hinckley, where all of our design work, prototype construction and engineering takes place.
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I kind of think of middle weights as under at or under liter size.
If we are talking the heavy weight sport tourers, there are a bunch of really good ones out there, with the top being the FJR. :evil:
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I kind of think of middle weights as under at or under liter size.
If we are talking the heavy weight sport tourers, there are a bunch of really good ones out there, with the top being the FJR. :evil:
Definitions. This is probably why, when I talk about the sport-tourers I'm considering, I always get someone who says I'm "all over the map". I don't necessarily think primarily in terms of engine size; I'm more concerned with (as the name implies) the actual *weight* of the bike. So for me, less than 450 lbs dry would be a light weight sport-tourer, 450 lbs to 600 lbs dry a middle weight, and over 600 lbs dry a heavy weight. The engine size comes next, as a question of whether it is adequate to the task, which most of them are. Middle weight sport tourers can be had from 650cc to 1650cc engines. I'm willing to consider any engine size, as long as it's adequate to the task, and the bike size fits me.
PhilB
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I don't necessarily think primarily in terms of engine size; I'm more concerned with (as the name implies) the actual *weight* of the bike. So for me, less than 450 lbs dry would be a light weight sport-tourer, 450 lbs to 600 lbs dry a middle weight, and over 600 lbs dry a heavy weight. The engine size comes next, as a question of whether it is adequate to the task, which most of them are. Middle weight sport tourers can be had from 650cc to 1650cc engines. I'm willing to consider any engine size, as long as it's adequate to the task, and the bike size fits me.
PhilB
Same, here.
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How about an EV? Under that body work it is just a Lemans with a better frame and suspension.
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Honda's VFR800 is about the last man standing...
R1200RS
Ducati 939 Supersport
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I'm really happy with my new to me 750 Breva, smooth, handles well and light. Fuel tank is a little small though. I think the term middleweight has a lot of meanings to a lot of different people. Perspective is everything. :popcorn:
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This our 2005 Kaw Z-750S. Wife road it for years. She and I both have curtailed the long out of state rides, we are both in our mid-60's. She has an 05 Tri. Bonny Speedmaster she uses now mostly and I have pretty much taken over the Zed. water cooled, 6 spd., EFI, under 450 lbs. with just over 100.rwhp. 40+ mpg. Great bike
(https://i.ibb.co/LN882XN/Z-750S.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LN882XN)
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Surprised nobody mentioned the '08 1200 Sport. It gets little respect because people think its just like the 1100 Breva when it's not. Suspension was upgraded, added power and no heat from the catalytic converter..Suspensi on is perfect for my weight and with a passenger. The Norge was mentioned but I prefer the bikini fairing for reduced weight over the larger Norge fairing and with the shorter bars, it makes cruising on the highway perfect and parking lot maneuvers a breeze!
The 12S is extremely well balanced for it's weight (with bags) and is very manuervable in ALL situations. I've put 33,000 mile on mine over the last 6 years with several long trips. I added Stelvio hand guards shortly after I got it and a Laminar Lip (only used for temps below 60 degrees) for added neck protection. So the wind protection is very good with the flaired gas tank and cylinder heads sending most of the wind around my legs. Don't mind the cylinder heat above 75 degrees and below that it feels so good on my legs.
With my H&B saddlebags, rear trunk and tank bag, I can travel anywhere from the grocery store to dancing on mountain roads to cruising highways at 85 mph all day. The low-end grunt is so addictive. Typically average 42-45 mpg. With the Startus Interuptus fixed, it is THE perfect bike for my kind of riding.
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You may love it, but it is too heavy to be a Middle weight sport tour.
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Another vote for concours c10. I had a 2005. I would still have it but they are heavy at low speed. Other than that could be one of the best bikes ever made