Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: guzzista on October 28, 2019, 09:49:02 PM
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A nice 2012 Tenni Griso is available locally . 11K miles and apparently no tappet problems as per local Guzzi dealer as of last service. Is still worth purchasing and then taking the plunge and rollerizing it ? . I have no idea what would that add to overall cost or which kit would it take and its actual cost or special tools required. Any light shed on the subject would be greatly appreciated
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First, I seriously doubt the dealer took things apart and inspected it ... they probably just did a valve adjustment and said it was good.
Check out AF1, they have the kits. Could you do the work? I checked with Pro Italia last year and it was like $2500 for parts and labor to have them do it. For a while Moto Guzzi would cover the parts and the customer would pay the labor ... but those days might be over. Pro Italia was the only shop that seemed to really understand the problem and solution.
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Firstly 2012 was the changeover year so there is a possibility, albeit slim, it could be a roller bike so make sure you're sure. :grin:
Secondly at 11,000 miles it is unlikely that the damage will of progressed to the point of it being a risky purchase if. Not the proviso though. If it's a 2012 or late 2011 it will need an 'A' kit which is one of the easiest to install and doesn't require removal of the heads. On a Griso it's a breeze to do but as with any other 8V with the two part sump and spacer it's worth dropping the sump and spacer to replace the upper gasket and clean the sump carefully as they do have a propensity to blowing out gaskets between the spacer and the block unless the newer, thicker, gasket is used.
It'll also require its swingarm and shock linkage bearings greasing but it's not something to shy away from and they are one of the prettiest of the Grisos.
Pete
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What to do........Run!
If you want a Griso there are plenty of factory rollered ones out there for not a lot of money.
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Buy it & fix, there are only so many Tenni's. That would be a keeper for long term enjoyment.
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Here is the AF1 A Kit link: https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=71398&sku=1A002060&description=Moto+Guzzi+Bucket+Tappet+Update+Kit+A+%2D+1A002060
Not associated with AF1 or pushing them, just a link in case you have trouble finding it.
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Thanks so much to everyone with the advice and links. I will go check the bike later this week and report if the Nor Cal Fire situation settles. So far we are in between power outages and hoping for the best.
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Would be nice to get it at the right price and save it from oblivion.
You’ll know it’s yours then..
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I’m guessing it’s the one in Morgan Hill. Reasonable asking price IMO from a motivated seller. If you can get him down another $500 you’ll be in great shape even if you have to pay for parts and labor to convert to roller tappets. If my garage wasn’t full I’d be tempted. Love the Tenni Green models!
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Don't know if the same rules apply in the US, but here in the UK Guzzi are still honouring the extended warranty on the flat tappets, they provide the parts, you pay the labour or do it yourself.
However there are hoops to jump through like proving a full service history.
I would certainly follow Pete's advice.
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Replacing the flatties with rollers is great provided you caught them before they started to fail. So until it was opened up to have a look to see the condition of existing flatties I'd not pay anything for it. That $800 roller kit could turn into a whole lot more.
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It could, but at that mileage the chances are slim that it will turn into a disaster. As long as it isn't making a noise like a barn dance for bulldozers from the top end and it's rollerised immediately and the sump removed and cleaned thoroughly it will most likely be fine. The number of failures we've experienced post rollerisation is really very small.
That being said it depends on how much you want a Tenni and how much cheaper it will be than a 2013-on model.
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newbie questions here:
- are 2 valve motors preferable to 4 valve motors or vice versa?
- when did roller followers become standard?
- both of these appear to be 4 valve heads to me, what is the visual tip off?
https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/mcd/d/cincinnati-2012-moto-guzzi-griso-w12k/7006987517.html
https://cleveland.craigslist.org/mcy/d/rochester-2016-moto-guzzi-griso-se/7009148230.html
- at what price would each be considered a good buy?
great looking bikes, only downside for me (that I am cognizant of, that might be a clue to my extent of knowledge) would be weight.
thanks in advance for the education.
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The change over year from flats to rollers was 2012 in the March, April, May period depending on model. Essentially anything from 2013 on is not affected by the flat tappet fiasco. If you look at a flat tappet year model (2008-2012.) ask if it has been rollerised. Don't accept 'There are no outstanding recalls on this bike' as satisfactory because there never was a recall. Either see proof of rollerisation in documented form or ask to pop a rocker cover and look. If the seller can't or won't do this? Walk away or immediately accept that you'll need to buy the appropriate conversion kit and adjust the price you are willing to pay accordingly.
The earlier G 11's all used the ultimate version of the venerable 2VPC motor that first saw the light of day in 1967.
Pete
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newbie questions here:
- are 2 valve motors preferable to 4 valve motors or vice versa?
Some prefer the 2v motor's power delivery and, compared to the flat tappet models the reliability of the 2v is certainly better. I don't see any advantage of the 2v to a rollered 4v however (caveat I have an 4v).
- when did roller followers become standard?
Mid 2012.
- both of these appear to be 4 valve heads to me, what is the visual tip off?
https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/mcd/d/cincinnati-2012-moto-guzzi-griso-w12k/7006987517.html
https://cleveland.craigslist.org/mcy/d/rochester-2016-moto-guzzi-griso-se/7009148230.html
Both are 4v heads. The easy tip off are the model/paint schemes but you can always tell by the valve covers or the color of the CARC. Just google the pictures and look at those.
- at what price would each be considered a good buy?
Subjective, but given you can find rollered 8v's (mid 2012 and up) in the $5k to $7k range and that really puts downward pressure on all earlier bikes save the Tenni SE's since there's a soft spot for that model.
great looking bikes, only downside for me (that I am cognizant of, that might be a clue to my extent of knowledge) would be weight.
thanks in advance for the education.
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A nice 2012 Tenni Griso is available locally . 11K miles and apparently no tappet problems as per local Guzzi dealer as of last service. Is still worth purchasing and then taking the plunge and rollerizing it ? . I have no idea what would that add to overall cost or which kit would it take and its actual cost or special tools required. Any light shed on the subject would be greatly appreciated
I saved a Tenni SE and I'm glad I did it, but I was looking for a black devil and just couldn't find one as they aren't the most common motorcycle out there. If you want the green then you will have to go through the rollers to get there; I've never seen a green one that wasn't a flattie and you won't find many (if any) converted used ones out there. The conversion cost me $500 and about a month going the dealer route if you can still get the parts supplied by MG.
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I saved a Tenni SE and I'm glad I did it, but I was looking for a black devil and just couldn't find one as they aren't the most common motorcycle out there. If you want the green then you will have to go through the rollers to get there; I've never seen a green one that wasn't a flattie and you won't find many (if any) converted used ones out there. The conversion cost me $500 and about a month going the dealer route if you can still get the parts supplied by MG.
My 8V went almost 40,000 miles before conversion; upon disassembly, the tappet surfaces were very discolored but no material missing. It was close to failing. If I had ANY unconverted 8V at any mileage, I'd do the conversion NOW.
In my case (a 2009) the dealer had to work hard to get Moto Guzzi to send the appropriate kit on Guzzi's nickel. Take out the tappets, photograph them, put together a service history (partly the original out-of-business selling dealer, partly my maintenance log, partly their maintenance log) and still got an argument from Guzzi. If the dealer hadn't been totally on my side or hadn't persisted, they wouldn't have gotten the $1500 kit. But they did, and after 7.5 hours labor ($800) including a new map download and a centerstand recall, the bike has been great for 14,000 miles.
So I'd probably go for the bike with a price discounted about $2300 from a roller version, and MAYBE you can still get Guzzi to spring for the roller kit and get partially well on the deal. The seller obviously isn't willing to take that action, take the hassle, argue with Guzzi, and install the kit, so there ought not be any problem with getting the discount if YOU have to do all that .... !
Lannis
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There is a Tenni on Copart right now in Portland: https://www.copart.com/lot/46122009
(https://i.ibb.co/TtRbrvk/copart.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TtRbrvk)
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Buy the one from Cadre so I quit lusting after it!
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There is a Tenni on Copart right now in Portland: https://www.copart.com/lot/46122009
(https://i.ibb.co/TtRbrvk/copart.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TtRbrvk)
Interesting. They put that huge sticker right on the tank! How classy! :grin:
Seems the rear seat has been recovered, that does not look original. And they did a "tidy tail" and then stuck on a top case, another :rolleyes:
Wonder what the story is on that one and how it ended up at auction.
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My 8V went almost 40,000 miles before conversion; upon disassembly, the tappet surfaces were very discolored but no material missing. It was close to failing. If I had ANY unconverted 8V at any mileage, I'd do the conversion NOW.
In my case (a 2009) the dealer had to work hard to get Moto Guzzi to send the appropriate kit on Guzzi's nickel. Take out the tappets, photograph them, put together a service history (partly the original out-of-business selling dealer, partly my maintenance log, partly their maintenance log) and still got an argument from Guzzi. If the dealer hadn't been totally on my side or hadn't persisted, they wouldn't have gotten the $1500 kit. But they did, and after 7.5 hours labor ($800) including a new map download and a centerstand recall, the bike has been great for 14,000 miles.
So I'd probably go for the bike with a price discounted about $2300 from a roller version, and MAYBE you can still get Guzzi to spring for the roller kit and get partially well on the deal. The seller obviously isn't willing to take that action, take the hassle, argue with Guzzi, and install the kit, so there ought not be any problem with getting the discount if YOU have to do all that .... !
Lannis
FYI the difference between Lannis' numbers and mine is the kit required. A Tenni SE will almost certainly require an A or B kit where Lannis' '09 required the C kit with removal of the heads.
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There is a Tenni on Copart right now in Portland: https://www.copart.com/lot/46122009
(https://i.ibb.co/TtRbrvk/copart.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TtRbrvk)
The sheet says damage on the side and a salvage title. Looks like a right side slide... Doesn't look damaged enough to be a total. :undecided:
Larry
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newbie questions here:
- are 2 valve motors preferable to 4 valve motors or vice versa?
great looking bikes, only downside for me (that I am cognizant of, that might be a clue to my extent of knowledge) would be weight.
The 2 valve bikes are 1100cc (8V are 1200). In the US anything before 2009 should be a 1100 2 valve bike. Most were 2007 due to over production around that time. You could buy a NOS 2007 bike well into 2009 IIRC... Not sure there are many 2008 Grisos
2009 and on should be 8V bikes with 2013 and on being rollered. Easy to tell from the valve cover.
Things about a Griso that you need to be aware of:
Exhausts are often modified or changed without changing the map. This is an easy and cheap fix with Guzzi diag.
Suspension is great- when adjusted properly. I found a LOT of the new Griso had the compression damp screw turned to 'rattle your teeth' stiff. Not a great way to win test riders over. Lowering the forks in the tree helps with handling as well. Listed in one of the manuals (station service?)
Footpegs are high for most, but a pair from Knight Design pegs will help lower them 1" at least.
Seat blows for long trips (for many). You have been warned, seems OK sitting on it. Then you ride it...
At least the fuel range sucks so you can get off the horrible seat...135 miles before you start walking, IIRC...exactly 135.
It's a great bike, rock solid, looks great, loved mine when I had it. Gets lots of attention, more so than most any bike I had to date. I might own one again...Always wanted a Teni.
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Kirb? My GRiSO Pinko I bought in, (From memory?) Tennessee was a red 2008 1200 so there were some out there in 2008.
I'd really like to buy the Copart bike. I could bring it over here as 'Spares' if I pulled the motor out and shipped it separately and could build it back up to original just for shit and giggles. I do like the Tenni's.
How, especially after the 'Hydro tappet' fiasco the factory could so spectacularly screw up the 8V simply to save a few dollars really is beyond me but history dictates that is exactly what they did. Amazing. I still think the Griso, especially in 8V format is right up there with the V7 Sport and 850 Le Mans in terms of its styling and appeal.why they didn't sell by the boatload is just beyond me?
Pete
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Amazing. I still think the Griso, especially in 8V format is right up there with the V7 Sport and 850 Le Mans in terms of its styling and appeal.why they didn't sell by the boatload is just beyond me?
Pete
Taste, Pete
Like the centy, quota and more recently v9
Not everyone shares the love of odd, v7 sport and le mans positively mainstream by comparison, but pretty.
Usable too, for ever
Griso issues obviously didn’t help for poseurs, fuel range cut out the users, rollers don’t get you much further
But any aussies that want one, NOS still available here, think they pay you to get rid of em.
Looks like v85 might finally turn the tide, TT still selling well, v85 Le Mans might even put them in the black
Avoiding ugly makes sense, hope they’ve learnt.
Watch out for Eicma
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Nah. The fact you are hidebound by your conservatism means that you have little. Anything outside the box leaves you cold.
That's fine.
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Nah. The fact you are hidebound by your conservatism means that you have little. Anything outside the box leaves you cold.
That's fine.
Exact opposite is true,
But the buying public are in discussion not me
Sales figures tell the story
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That being the case stories of the V85 being the great white hope are proving to be dishonest at best. It’s not selling any better or worse than Guzzi’s of years gone by.
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That being the case stories of the V85 being the great white hope are proving to be dishonest at best. It’s not selling any better or worse than Guzzi’s of years gone by.
Apparently it’s the red ones they can’t make enough of
Great red hope ?
But do you know sales figures for us and euro summer?
Please tell
Aus sales season starting now, published marchish
% change over ytd is guzzi’s challenge
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Always is with any business. I wish them to sell squillions. I just can't see why anyone would when they can buy a VStrom.
My next purchase is probably going to be one of the new CT 125 Honda's that are 'rumoured' for next year. They'd be a hoot in the state forests of NSW and I'd guess a great 'Round Australia' steed. Speed isn't what I need any more. My GRiSO has more than enough and is elegant and simple as were most of the Big Block series. The smallblocks have always been built down to a price 'Company Carriers'. They're a lot better than they used to be but until they improve the top end they will remain off my interest spectrum.
You think differently. That's fine.
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That being the case stories of the V85 being the great white hope are proving to be dishonest at best. It’s not selling any better or worse than Guzzi’s of years gone by.
What do you base that on, Pete?
Look at this saleschart for Germany. Guzzi har raised sales the most. 80 pct increase.
(https://i.ibb.co/NNDB4bw/sales.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NNDB4bw)
Twice the v85 has cracked the top 20 for most sold bikes in a month in Germany.
Edit: The link to salesfigures (in german): https://files.vogel.de/vogelonline/vogelonline/issues/bub/2019/009.pdf
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I was just talking about Oz really. But I'm not accountable for other people's tastes. As I'll say again. I'm glad they are selling well. I hope their owners enjoy them. I find them insipid and uninspiring.
Pete
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What do you base that on, Pete?
Look at this saleschart for Germany. Guzzi har raised sales the most. 80 pct increase.
(https://i.ibb.co/NNDB4bw/sales.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NNDB4bw)
Twice the v85 has cracked the top 20 for most sold bikes in a month in Germany.
Edit: The link to salesfigures (in german): https://files.vogel.de/vogelonline/vogelonline/issues/bub/2019/009.pdf
Thanks Steeffen
Numbers so much easier to read than opinion
Are there plenty of leftover Grisos and 1400’s there too ?
Factory bods can only use sales figures, don’t know if Guzzi listed on stock exchange, prob not but Piaggio shares might show too.. The bottom line, as they say
Honest number crunching imho, but re himmo obviously selling more there, maybe here too
Anyone got US figures ?
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I find them insipid and uninspiring.
Pete
That’s somewhat at odds with the impression you gave at the crow eating session Pete.
I don’t really give a rat’s myself, because I didn’t buy it to be inspired. I must admit though, that I feel that Guzzi are still preaching to the choir a bit, in that existing Guzzi owners are ditching their old stuff and buying these things.
When Guzzi can turn a buyer away from an 800 GS or Triumph Tiger..et al
Then I think their true measure of success will be apparent.
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Over here at least it looks like quite a few 85 tt buyers are new to the brand...that's been the same for the 750's over the last few years too.Ownership is still dominated by the older folks like us but there are younger bikers getting into guzzi's now too.Some of that is hipster, some due to the realisation that modern speed limits and their strict enforcement mean that owning a super rocket is pretty dumb.
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God's teeth! I don't see what is so difficult to understand! I think it is a good bike in the same way that a Hyundai Kona is a good car. It just doesn't inspire? Well? Anything, in me.
I don't expect people to agree with me but I'll be buggered if I'm going to resile from my opinions because other people say "But they're selling like hot cakes! Therefore they must be wonderful!" It's not. It's extremely average.
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I’m digesting your comment #2081 from the V85 merged threadfest.
“The bike is more than the sum of it’s parts..”
And
“I thought it would be anodyne and boring, it isn’t..”
These and other comments led our readers to believe that you had elevated your opinion somewhat from it’s original position. The only thing I find perplexing, is how your observations and opinions from post #2081 in the V85 merged threadfest can mesh seamlessly with the comments above in this thread.
That’s what I see as a bridge too far...
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Well, I've tried to explain but obviously not well enough so let's just leave it there.
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What would I do?
Buy it and replace the lifters.
Tappets seem to wear out because they shouldn't be tapping. Especially roller lifters. :grin:
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God's teeth! I don't see what is so difficult to understand! I think it is a good bike in the same way that a Hyundai Kona is a good car. It just doesn't inspire? Well? Anything, in me.
I don't expect people to agree with me but I'll be buggered if I'm going to resile from my opinions because other people say "But they're selling like hot cakes! Therefore they must be wonderful!" It's not. It's extremely average.
Wonder what next year will bring with V85TT sales. I believe there may be a small sale blitz in the spring of 2020 and then later int the spring/summer you'll start to see sales figures plummet. The in 2021 you'll see 2020 models sitting on he showroom floors then in 2021.
Guzzi certainly beaten the life out of the SB since introduced in 1978. Maybe after 41 years its time to try somethgin a little different.