Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: larrys on November 19, 2019, 09:12:57 AM
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Went to the dark side and bought this. 2013 Monster EVO 1100. 3K miles.
(https://i.ibb.co/vHbZ3t8/IMG-1163.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vHbZ3t8)
Seems to run pretty good, but has a rich idle, even after warm up. Anybody remap these?
Larry
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I know nothing about that system, but is there a way to check the temp sensor?
Most EFI systems I have dealt with will default to -40C if the sensor is disconnected or internally open-circuited, which causes a very rich condition.
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Make sure it doesn’t have a Booster Plug. It tricks the ECU into running rich by altering the ambient air sensor. Similar to the infamous O2 Optimizer. Your best bet, especially with that dual Termi exhaust, is to either buy a Rexxer kit or bring it to a dealer that has one and have it properly mapped. The single map Rexxer is $200. If you buy the licensed version that allows you to install multiple maps it’s $400. The big version also allows you to reset the service light. I’m not sure what a dealer would charge but usually the Termignoni systems have an official map the dealer can load.
I nearly bought an 1100 Evo 6 weeks ago. Great bike!
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I suppose they have another make of ecu, so can't help.
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Siemens M3C ECU.
Rexxer or Power Commander. If I had to choose, go with Rexxer.
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I've heard good things about Doug Lofgren, but I have not used his services and it has been years (really, like 10) since I looked into this.
http://www.lofgrenperformance.com
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Rich idle? Sound like someone has already been fooling with the Fi system. OEM' are lean across the board until your WFO on the throttle. (See my rant about stock FI under "How much tech is enough") The Termi's would lean it out even more unless it has the race ECM installed (which it may, if the PO bought the whole system from Ducati). When you say "rich idle" are you saying it because you can smell it? Or something else. If it pulls fine through the power band without any lean surging, I'd count my blessings and live with it.
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Been too cold here for me to want to take a ride of any distance to see how it really runs. I've only been up and down my road a couple times.
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OEM' are lean across the board until your WFO on the throttle.
That is incorrect. The Closed Loop area (off idle to 4000-5000 RPM, and only above engine temperature of 55 degrees C) is trimmed by the ECU to an AFR of 14.5 - 15.1. I call that "lean". Outside of those parameters, in the Open Loop area, the AFR is typically more rich. In some cases (pick any CARC Guzzi), it's stupid rich above 5000 RPM.
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Had a couple warm days last weekend to put some miles on it. It does have a rich spot just off idle. I can hold the throttle in just that spot and it chugs and lurches. Just enough to make it a PIA in traffic. Once past that spot on the throttle and above 3800 rpm, it pulls like a freight train.
I looked at the Rexxer kits. It looks like you buy the kit and a new map. If the new map doesn't correct the way the bike runs, you have to buy another different map? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks,
Larry
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Are you 100% sure the previous owner didn't install the updated ECM (ECU) along with the pipes? From my former Ducati days, that was the most normal thing to do ... buy a kit ... exhaust, airbox lid, filter, and race ECM ... all supposedly tuned to work together.
Have you owned/ridden many Ducati's before? For me, the Ducati chug & lurch below 3800 rpms (in lower gears) was mostly the norm. So trying to ride a steady speed between 25 - 35 mph was chug & lurch city. Never knew anyone that tuned that out ... maybe that is possible.
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Are you 100% sure the previous owner didn't install the updated ECM (ECU) along with the pipes? From my former Ducati days, that was the most normal thing to do ... buy a kit ... exhaust, airbox lid, filter, and race ECM ... all supposedly tuned to work together.
Have you owned/ridden many Ducati's before? For me, the Ducati chug & lurch below 3800 rpms (in lower gears) was mostly the norm. So trying to ride a steady speed between 25 - 35 mph was chug & lurch city. Never knew anyone that tuned that out ... maybe that is possible.
I am the third owner. The second owner bought the bike in 2015 with 18 miles on it. He told me that the Termis were on it already. I have no idea what the previous owners installed. Would I be able to identify the airbox lid, filter, and ECM as aftermarket by looking at them?
It is my first Ducati. Started riding in 1970, mostly Bonnevilles. Have owned Guzzis since 1981. Fastest Guzzi was my '87 Lemans. The Monster is a very different animal. I like it a lot...
Thank you very much for your input. The more I know, the more I realize that there is so much that I don't know...
Larry
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I came from Ducatis and KTM 990s to Moto Guzzi ... and was happily surprised at how smoothly the Guzzi's run down low. Velvety butter smooth at low rpms on the Guzzi's.
I'm not 100% sure of why there is such a significant different. Certainly the heavier flywheel (or all total rotating mass) feel much more on the Guzzi's I've ridden, so it makes them slower to rev up or down, so that helps make them smooth. Also maybe better fueling (thanks Beetle!!) and maybe ignition settings and advance.
On my KTM 990 for instance, sitting at idle, a light blip of the throttle and it revs instantly up, and then instantly down ... on either of my MG's it is a much slow rev up and back down. So try to ride say a steady 35 mph on the KTM ... if I move the throttle 1mm, then I get a bit of a jump, whoops, back off 1mm, now I have a deceleration, over and over, lurchy, chuggy ride.
My KTM is the worse for lurching, stumbling, trying to ride at a steady speed/throttle. A real pain. There are dozens of fueling maps, and pages and pages of forum posts with guys trying to figure out how to make them more tolerable. I've spent tons of time reading, mapping, tweaking, and it is just barely tolerable. (but I'm not good at this, just a guy trying to get his bike to run better, I am not a tuner guy. But 100s of other guys haven't solved it either.)
IMO, Ducati's are better than the KTM 990s, but very similar.
So you will be attempting to do something that Ducati's aren't good at doing. Kind of like getting a Jack Russell Terrier and then trying to turn it into a calm dog. :grin: I'm sure there are some calm ones out there.
I'm sure you are reading Ducati specific forums and seeing what others are doing.
If you go with a Rexxer then you will need to get a map specific to your bike's setup (exhaust, intake). Not sure how good Rexxer's provided map might be. Not sure if Ducati forum guys share maps or if the Rexxer software even allows that ... something to check into.
So if you don't like your Rexxer map you can fiddle with some of the parameters yourself, or possible get some other person's map (if that is possible), or pay a performance shop for their map.
So if you search enough and find a great map, you could see some great improvements.
But you still got a Jack Russell. :grin: