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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Penderic on December 15, 2019, 12:01:25 PM

Title: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: Penderic on December 15, 2019, 12:01:25 PM

(https://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic013/learn_zpsiey3eiyc.jpg)

:popcorn:

A long vid. A good vid.

Great lessons for beginners and enthusiasts alike about riding motorcycles. Started watching it this morning - 1/4 way through it so far, (got some chores to get done today too), and taking a break now. Will pick up where I left off later today but thought others here have some time on their hands, sooooo ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vkFIx3zlhU

(https://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic013/twist%20of%20the%20throttle2_zpstjstf2nr.jpg)

Enjoy!

Title: Re: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: Huzo on December 15, 2019, 12:59:22 PM

That’s fantastic stuff.
I love the interface between basic unrefutable science, myth, conventional wisdom and human reaction.
That pointer demo was great. What was that comment on countersteering that some bloke made here, that at low speed you don’t do it... :embarrassed:
Run for the hills...IT’S JUDGEMENT DAY PEOPLE....!
(I can hear Reverend Lovejoy..)

Title: Re: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 15, 2019, 01:33:29 PM

Oh, yeah.. good stuff. I know those roads.. :smiley: Headed out there Tuesday.  :thumb:

Title: Re: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: Penderic on December 15, 2019, 03:53:44 PM

I loved the explanations using visual examples ...and learned a lot about the science too.  :bike-037:

Now to watch some experts in action..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dPAYxEGBk8  :laugh:

Title: Re: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 15, 2019, 06:56:03 PM

Quote from: Penderic on December 15, 2019, 03:53:44 PM

I loved the explanations using visual examples ...and learned a lot about the science too.  :bike-037:

Now to watch some experts in action..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dPAYxEGBk8  :laugh:

Back in the day when it first came out was when the light came on for me. It made me a *much* better rider.  :thumb:

Title: Re: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: philwarner on December 16, 2019, 09:36:25 PM

Thanks for that link.  I just watched the section on counter steering which was interesting, although not as clear on why counter steering works to satisfy my old brain.  50 years ago in college I had a 66 Yamaha 305 sport that just went where I thought of going and I wasn't aware of counter steering.  From 1980 on I rode dirt bikes and still wasn't aware of counter steering.  Then in 2012 I bought a Triumph America, my first road bike in 30 years, and while my feet were still learning where to find the forward pegs I also learned about counter steering for the first time because the Triumph needed to be ridden that way.  Then in August of this year I bought my 96 Guzzi Cali and it rides like I remember the Yamaha 305 riding - just think about where you want to go and it goes there without a conscious counter steering effort.  I ride pretty conservatively and it is still good to know about counter steering in case I happen to get into a decreasing radius turn a little too fast, but I don't consciously do it on the Guzzi like I do on the Triumph.  Maybe someday I'll drag the Yamaha back out of the corner of the pole barn and get it back on the road and see if what I remember still holds, but for now The Guzzi just seems to read my mind and goes where I want it to.  The best advice I read when I began road riding again was to always look where you want to go and let the bike take you there which I find especially helpful in tight turns at low speed like turning from a stop.

Title: Re: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 17, 2019, 07:54:51 AM

^^^^ like everyone else in the midwest where there are no real twisties..I rode like that, too. Like everyone else  :grin: I thought I knew how to go around a corner. When I started riding in SoCal, at the first turn everyone else disappeared.  :shocked:
I was doing everything wrong.
This video, and a day in the Santa Monicas with Todd Egan showed me the error of my ways. After a fair amount of practice on these techniques, I became a much faster, relaxed, and more confident rider than I was in my lifetime. Now, at 75, I'm slowing down a bit, but still a much better rider than when I was 40.
What Keith is saying is spot on..

Title: Re: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: ozarquebus on December 17, 2019, 07:06:46 PM

The video is very good.
 I thought I was doing all that stuff naturally and I was, to some extent. After talking to Rudy, I became more aware of the assertive countersteer which works like magic over body lean and the minor natural subconscious countersteer.
I had to learn the hard way about survival responses and cornering line, but vision, braking, downshifting and traction came in my autonomic mental skillset. I will draw the line at sliding off the seat to put my knee an inch from the pavement on the body position.
  Nevertheless, I have grown weary of crashing and therefore practice the "speed kills" ethic on unfamiliar roads and there is no substitute for over abundance of caution with large North American herbivores, for which cornering tricks are no advantage for survival instincts. I now prefer looking at the scenery over slicing milliseconds off my travel time and generally only go 10 mph over the speed signs for the corners.

Title: Re: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 18, 2019, 04:38:15 PM

I respectfully disagree. The rapid change of direction with an agressive flick can save your life.  <shrug>

Title: Re: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: ozarquebus on December 18, 2019, 05:06:27 PM

Chuck,
You may be right about aggressive flicking, but I think MY aggressive snap flick would carry an increased risk which when coupled with the unpredictablilty of the deers's movements, would have a net difference of 0% in the final outcome.

 I was always trained to slow down the best you can and not dodge animals darting into the road.

 I just put my head down and continue while yelling at the top of my lungs.

 Maybe we should set up some experiments to test this?

I will operate the styro-foam deer, you can pilot the test bike.  :food:

Title: Re: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: 80CX100 on December 18, 2019, 10:53:19 PM

When it comes to animals, I've changed my reaction a lot, I used to just slow down and swerve around behind them if I could, but far too many times animals have reacted completely unpredictably, jumping straight up, doing 180's or other deer or turkeys that I hadn't seen, suddenly appear.

If I have time and circumstances permit, I now try to brake as hard as I can, and if I have to, almost to a complete stop,,, if due to speed or circumstances I have to do some last minute quick maneuver, I try to aim for the ass & behind the animal,,, odds are it will be long gone in the same direction by the time I get there, hopefully,lol.

fwiw

Kelly

Title: Re: Gonna Finish Learning About Turning!
Post by: wirespokes on December 18, 2019, 11:06:30 PM

A friend was told when doing a tour of the BMW factory that the bikes could easily survive a crash with a medium size dog. He was told to not swerve, but to slow down if possible.

With deer you never know. They can broadside you out of nowhere. Those air activated deer whistles are junk. MC Consumer news did a good study and found the electronic ones actually do something.

I'm curious if the louder exhausts have any better luck scaring away animals than the super quiet beemers.

I most likely wouldn't be here if the elk hadn't moved forward in the space of time from when I first saw him to the point where I glanced off his butt.