Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: lazlokovacs on January 31, 2020, 04:48:39 AM
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With apologies to SmithSwede who just started a great thread, I wondered if you guys would care to answer the same question but this time about cars?
I'm interested as I'm currently looking for a historic vehicle (ie. over 40 years old) that is real world friendly
here goes....
What is the *oldest* car you can think of that would still be honest-to-goodness realistic and practical for real world, daily or regular use, on modern roadways? Be specific about make and model.
Some criteria. It absolutely needs reasonably decent brakes so you don’t die just because you are driving an antique. If you wouldn’t drive it regularly because the brakes suck, exclude it from the list.
Needs to be able to run at least 75 mph to keep up with urban traffic. I’m not talking about an old car that is capable of merely toodling along on country roads on a Sunday afternoon. Think regularly merging onto a Dallas expressway without constantly worrying about being run over.
Needs to be reasonably reliable. Assume you need to drive it to work most every day. And need to have it start and run without too much hassle.
I said daily or regular use—so don’t suggest something that might only hold up for once a month trips. Or the annual old car parade downtown. Or only last 3,000 miles before major wrenching or an overhaul.
I can envision lots of stuff that fits this description from the 1970s. And 1960s. But before that, I’m not so sure.
Enlighten me.
Can we at least draw boundaries to the question? Is it clear that there nothing from the 1930s that could handle this mission profile?
1940s?
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So many choices!! Really the best era to build a driver is the early 70's. Pick your brand.. Buy then you have most cars having disk front brakes, power brakes, and in a lot of cases power steering. You have some good starts of safety devices.. Collapsible steering colom, padded dashes, breakaway mirrors, door bars, shoulder harness belts.. Its also before the REAL sketchy first gen smog controls hit. With small tuning changes, you can get the powertrains running pretty strong, and efferent. Build quality was OK.. As a example I have a 72 ford LTD convertible. Its really a dream on the roads. Its a old car... But stops well with its big 11" disk breaks. It has 351ci engine, thats pretty powerful but not a gas hog. I did some small mods to it.. Small cam, and cam chain that times it correctly. [a lot of 70's cars retarded the cam at the start of the emission control years] It has some long legged gears [Guzzi content..] so lopes along at 75mph on the highway making just over 20mpg. Handling is pretty good.. Updated to good gas shocks. [KYB GasAjust... I put them on all my old cars.] and poly bushings for the sway bar.. Its a nice controlled ride...
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many people are doing "resto mods" which are old bodies on new frames. essentially you get a modern car with a classic body. this is pretty expensive for the full monty. but there are lots of disc brake conversion kits, power brake kits and suspension items to update older cars. if you are reaching back to the 60s and late 50s, 12 volt conversions kits. but, i agree with the first poster if you want something closer to turn key. beware, most of these were rust buckets since the technology was not very advanced in the early 70s.
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This May be a little off the beaten path but i believe this would be a simple reliable older vehicle. Not sure about top speed but it will last. https://images.app.goo.gl/5rDXjwZrPfjTSsG39
I got a thing for old sweptlines with a slant six.
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I still use my 1968 Jeep J3000 truck regularly, but not daily. It does not have any creature comforts and certainly drives like a 60s truck, but it hauls feed, shavings, brush and other stuff very well. I have no problem cruising at 60-65, but I would not use it at 75 on an interstate highway. I rebuilt the engine (original block, but new pistons, rings and valves) when I bought it and installed a new front axle (to fix the 4wd), but it has it has been very reliable since (4 years). Gas mileage is atrocious - I average slightly less than 10 mpg - V8, 4WD, 4 speed manual, PS and PB.
(https://i.ibb.co/LvJjFs6/BAB5139-F-2-B89-471-E-A16-A-4-BFE69-FACB3-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LvJjFs6)
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I still use my 1968 Jeep J3000 truck regularly, but not daily. It does not have any creature comforts and certainly drives like a 60s truck, but it hauls feed, shavings, brush and other stuff very well. I have no problem cruising at 60-65, but I would not use it at 75 on an interstate highway. Gas mileage is atrocious - I average slightly less than 10 mpg - V8, w/ 4 speed manual, PS and PB.
(https://i.ibb.co/LvJjFs6/BAB5139-F-2-B89-471-E-A16-A-4-BFE69-FACB3-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LvJjFs6)
I love it! Had a 77 j10 jeep pickup great truck but never took it above 60. The gas mileage was more like gallons per mile.
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Laz,
you've listed alot of criteria, but the big one you haven't said is how much $$$ you'd be willing to spend.
Early 70's Mercedes are light years ahead of their US contemporaries in build quality and are generally reliable as rocks. Initial purchase of a nice model will set you back $25-$50K (and the SL's will really set you back $75-$100K) and parts are expensive but generally available as is service if you're in a major area.
At the Other End:
The 71-73 Super Beetles are hard to beat. With those years you get the MacPhearson Strutt suspension, front discs, and greater cargo space of the Super, but retain the classic flat windshield and dash of the beetle making radio upgrades a snap and simplifying wiring issues. 75mph is doable and because they're light, acceleration is decent. Go with something that some one else has already poured their heart/soul/$$ into and get the best you can find. $10-$15K should buy a pristine unmolested and perhaps partially restored example and for another $1.5K you can install a modern AC that won't steal all your ponies. Quality parts are widely available, and if you can work on an older Guzzi, this will be very familiar.
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The problem with this type of question is not the question, but the answers.
What would work for one guy, say, living in rule OK, driving daily on open country roads is far different than someone using the car as a daily 30 mile commute to work through Chicago, ATL etc, traffic. Situations where you might need to run 80mph for 15 minutes, followed by 30 min of stop and go, and 15 min of anything goes, and they do it again on the way home, five days a week, in -10 F to 110F depending on the month.
Something that is reasonably reliable won't cut it for many, it has to be very reliable. 75mph is not fast enough if you travel major expressways during rush. This also applies to the moto thread.
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I've had certain cars that I'm partial to but have owned stuff from all the big 3.
One of the cars I has was a '72 Duster. Slant 6, automatic, power steering. Not a speed demon by any means, but a slant 6 is a easy to work on, reliable motor. I also get 25 mpg on a regular basis. Nice looking body style that you can spruce up with a set of wheels if you want. I wish I hadn't sold it.
John Henry
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I just bought an 87 Bertone X1/9 (Fiat) for just this purpose. I was going to say my Fiat 850 couple but I do not have the patience to wait for it to hit 75mph.
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I would second the late 60s - early 70’s. You can find inexpensive non collectible cars or trucks for a reasonable price. If it’s properly sorted I wouldn’t have a problem driving one across country. For me personally tho, I’d roll a very early 80’s volvo 240.
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Easily hits 75mph so you can get to the next gas station. Engine and transmission parts are readily available as they made lots of these parts and the aftermarket sources are plentiful. Disc brakes make it easy to stop if you go to aftermarket discs, so you don't have to worry about stopping on those freeways. It can haul a bike in the back and full sheets of plywood,etc., though guys get mad at you as they load the same material in their $70K pick up trucks. While it is a classic, the prices are not crazy because you either like them or hate them, but they are prone to rust so I'd look for a southern vehicle. Open the smuggler's box to make sure it isn't going to fall in half after purchase. Mine has an electronic ignition box so I don't have to mess with the stupid points every few months.
(https://i.ibb.co/xFcR46x/43-FC7332-B956-4441-A6-E1-0-A3-C269-E7-CAD.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/1nwFq4K/34-A07109-0983-4041-ADC6-EA49-E5-C77983.jpg)
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My '64 MGB would have filled the bill nicely. Economical (30 MPG), practical (used it to carry a boat, drove it across country with all my then-meager belongings several times), good brakes (unless it was raining, in which case they may no longer have been all that good, but they did become exciting brakes), easy to repair (you could pull the head and replace the valves in 8 hrs with tools you might have around the shed, don't ask me how I know this), got above 100 MPH easily enough (we liked that part, the CHPs expressed some disapproval), and used prices are still just a few thousand. A '64 Chevy Impala could manage too. Less economical, perhaps, but as far as reliability goes, a friend of mine ran one as a farm car with two missing rods, a hole in the sump, and no oil in the engine (y3es, these three phenomena were connected :grin:).
Most 50's Detroit products could also handle the mission, but most ones in running order have become collectors' items by now.
Before that, there are plenty of exotic cars that have the necessary performance ('think 'Red Barchetta', but watch out for the gleaming alloy aircars?)... if one has the necessary wealth to hire the machinists to fabricate the parts to keep it on the road.
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1967 Ford Mustang...this gets driven about 2500 miles per year...and has 95K miles on the "original" 289 V8 motor! :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/M9jqgJF/IMG-6184.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M9jqgJF)
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Easily hits 75mph so you can get to the next gas station. Engine and transmission parts are readily available as they made lots of these parts and the aftermarket sources are plentiful. Disc brakes make it easy to stop if you go to aftermarket discs, so you don't have to worry about stopping on those freeways. It can haul a bike in the back and full sheets of plywood,etc., though guys get mad at you as they load the same material in their $70K pick up trucks. While it is a classic, the prices are not crazy because you either like them or hate them, but they are prone to rust so I'd look for a southern vehicle. Open the smuggler's box to make sure it isn't going to fall in half after purchase. Mine has an electronic ignition box so I don't have to mess with the stupid points every few months.
(https://i.ibb.co/xFcR46x/43-FC7332-B956-4441-A6-E1-0-A3-C269-E7-CAD.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/1nwFq4K/34-A07109-0983-4041-ADC6-EA49-E5-C77983.jpg)
Ya never know when you might need a shrubbery to get passage. :grin:
ZZ
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I'd guess that about any full size car or truck post WWII would do for basic transportation and true for many cars pre-war. It will start, run 60 mph, have lights, wiper and heater. Careful of the brakes in congested traffic. Otherwise, I think it's day to day driveable. Of course 40k miles and you're going to do an overhaul on it.
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That is not shrubbery, its Caminoflage! :cheesy: DonG
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With shrubbery and Guzzi content
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7b/53/29/7b5329730ab85508439905fb441db66b.jpg)
(https://pics.imcdb.org/0is511/chevroeltelcamino15op5.1817.jpg)
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I'd probably choose a ('59-'68) Mercedes W111 "Fintail" with six cylinder gas engine and manual transmission. Well built, durable, easy to maintain, capable of sustained high speeds, comfortable, well-equipped, four wheel disc brakes. Driver quality examples are still reasonably priced.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1962-mercedes-benz-220s-2/
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I forgot about the Elcaminos. That is the way to go.
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and used prices are still just a few thousand. .....
For a running chrome bumper MGB? A few thousand whats? Not dollars, unless we disagree on what the word "few" implies .... !!!
I loved my MGBs, wouldn't mind having another. They're what you said.
Lannis
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Anything from the mid-1960s onward...
But 1972 was the pinnacle!
(https://i.ibb.co/Ny3BTFy/8bd79a720a3c2d028fb53472083c8043.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ny3BTFy)
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I would go with a 1955 chevy w/ a V8. 12 volt electrics and you can get mechanical parts at any autozone or Checker/O'reilly parts store.
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I've had certain cars that I'm partial to but have owned stuff from all the big 3.
One of the cars I has was a '72 Duster. Slant 6, automatic, power steering. Not a speed demon by any means, but a slant 6 is a easy to work on, reliable motor. I also get 25 mpg on a regular basis. Nice looking body style that you can spruce up with a set of wheels if you want. I wish I hadn't sold it.
John Henry
Al Bundy's car.
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early/mid 70s good brakes ok performance easy to work on and you can get a mid or full size for not a lot of coin
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Even though the pending 4 speed swap & new trunk pan is now delayed by my V700 project, my red 1967 Ford Galaxie 500 has an original great-running 428, C6 with factory a/c, power steering, disc brakes and a bench seat. The disc brakes and added 1971 Police rear sway bar makes a big difference in modern traffic. Same equipment as the one I built & drove for 15+ years that looked just like the white one in the background, except this one is a original 428 car. My absolute favorite car, thrilled to have it-
(https://i.ibb.co/z5YcDvC/IMGP0740-Two-Galaxies-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z5YcDvC)
The biggest issue with a huge car like this nowadays is how parking spaces have narrowed.
Meanwhile, my well-worn & rusty 1973 Cheyenne longbed is fantastic, well past 200K on the original engine and has been my primary vehicle for many years. Bought from original owner for $350 in 1998. Still gets nearly 18mpg on the interstate and is driven everywhere. If & when it finally dies a permanent death, I've got another one in better shape waiting.
My 1962 Triumph TR3B is even older with disc brakes. Aside from the regulator sticking occasionally & then wrecking the generator, it was always very 100% reliable through high school & well into college. It's been in the family since Feb 64. But I parked it 30 yrs ago & it's further down the list to put back on the road.
No daily commute to work beyond walking down back to the studio, so kinda out of that scene.
Edit- my wife did ask if I mentioned that she had to take my truck this afternoon when she went to the middle school with her registered educational ambassador opossum for an educational program. Her 4Runner needs a new dist cap & wires and wasn't happy with today's snow/sleet wet weather. The old truck had no such issues.
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What year did they mandate a dual master cylinder for cars? 1967? That would be the oldest I'd want to go. Around here, air conditioning is a must. So, without modification, a '67 or newer car with plenty of power and AC. That leaves a lot of options.
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What year did they mandate a dual master cylinder for cars? 1967? That would be the oldest I'd want to go. Around here, air conditioning is a must. So, without modification, a '67 or newer car with plenty of power and AC. That leaves a lot of options.
In the USA, 1967 was the first year for dual chamber master cylinder as standard equipment. My car also has first series KH disc brakes, introduced on Fords in 1965/66 depending upon who you ask.
However, our TR3B has an original master cylinder with single top cap that screws off to reveal a central tube within a larger outer can to provide two separate chambers. I always understood it to be a dual chamber m/c that is concentric instead of side by side, but maybe not. (?) Disc brakes were standard equipment on the TR3 series, originally released in 1955. No idea what MG, Healys, etc had, if this m/c was required in England or just what Triumph did on their own.
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What year did they mandate a dual master cylinder for cars? 1967? That would be the oldest I'd want to go. Around here, air conditioning is a must. So, without modification, a '67 or newer car with plenty of power and AC. That leaves a lot of options.
I'm guessing a fair number of cars had dual circuit braking before '67. Mercedes had them in '60.
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Spend some time on the Hemmings website. Thumbs up on the ‘72 LTD. Also undervalued are the 2nd generation Cougars. Early to mid-60s T-birds are a good value. All the bells and whistles, many with 390 fe engines.
ElCamino’s are fun. Early Barracudas! The world is your oyster.
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy
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You might run into a snag trying to insure a car of that age as a daily driver. I had a '66 mustang fastback around 2004 and the only insurance I could get for it was for classic car, which limited the driving to 3,000 miles per year only weekends, to and from car events. I drove the car daily and the speedo gear was "broken".... nobody checked on this, but if you do get into an accident, not sure how that would work.
Parts for that were easy to find. In the mid 90's I had a 1967 Dodge Polara (loved that thing, drove and steered like silk), which I drove for a couple of years daily, and was able to insure it but it was a decade earlier. During that time I also had a 1978 Lincoln Continental town coupe (2-doors, and a beautiful machine), but I sold that within a few weeks as it was a ridiculous gas guzzler. My plan was to also get a 1960 Chevy bel-air at the time for better parts availability. I was a bit wrapped up with a few antique car collectors at the time, such a bad influence! I had just moved back to the US after living in Italy, and the bigger classic car for me, the better. :azn:
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You might run into a snag trying to insure a car of that age as a daily driver. I had a '66 mustang fastback around 2004 and the only insurance I could get for it was for classic car, which limited the driving to 3,000 miles per year only weekends, to and from car events. I drove the car daily and the speedo gear was "broken".... nobody checked on this, but if you do get into an accident, not sure how that would work.
True, I’ve had Haggerty Insurance on the el Camino for about 15 years, and I think there are some mileage restrictions but I am always way under 3,000 per year on that car.
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Currently driving around in a 1988 landrover 110 3.9 diesel despite the 4 pot calipers on the front the brakes I'd only describe as marginal in the modern world, power steering might be nice too it will even do about 75mph and sit on it but it does take a while to wind it up, the penaties you pay for spectacular off road performance it doesn't even drink too bad although I'd never describe it as good (11litres per 100kms).
I'l suggest something like a Volvo 240 or simlar 80's era I don't think you'd want to go much further back Merc 300D (actually the 300D might be a little pedestrian for modern traffic) from the same era Turbo Brick FTW. Any further back IMO the handling wieght crap brakes and not everything had power steering. In the modern urban enviorment with cramped parking spaces power steering for tight places is sadly a requirement. However odd I don't find having to row your own much of a chore in the 110.
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I drive a '65 Porsche 356SC daily. Ok, I have a short commute, and I take a motorcycle often, and on long trips I take my Tesla.
(https://i.ibb.co/4Jpj13C/DSCN2418.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Jpj13C)
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I drive a '65 Porsche 356SC daily. Ok, I have a short commute, and I take a motorcycle often, and on long trips I take my Tesla.
(https://i.ibb.co/4Jpj13C/DSCN2418.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Jpj13C)
Wow. I don’t know much about cars. But that is really cool. Wow.
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If you want to drive an old car ,one way to get insurance is if you take the risk for comprehensive and just carry liability.
My drivers in SoCal when there are a '65 Healey 3000 and a '69 international 3/4 ton pickup. I've owned both for many years so investment is low and I don't mind taking the risk.
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Anything from the mid-1960s onward...
But 1972 was the pinnacle!
(https://i.ibb.co/Ny3BTFy/8bd79a720a3c2d028fb53472083c8043.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ny3BTFy)
WOW thats sweet!! I can really see the shared lines from my LTD to that also. I do have to say, even though I do own a 72, I think 71 would be the top.. 72 was when almost all US makers started detuning a bit. But really today a slightly lowed compression ratio in your old 429 on today's gas is not really a bad thing!!
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You might run into a snag trying to insure a car of that age as a daily driver. I had a '66 mustang fastback around 2004 and the only insurance I could get for it was for classic car, which limited the driving to 3,000 miles per year only weekends, to and from car events. I drove the car daily and the speedo gear was "broken".... nobody checked on this, but if you do get into an accident, not sure how that would work.
Parts for that were easy to find. In the mid 90's I had a 1967 Dodge Polara (loved that thing, drove and steered like silk), which I drove for a couple of years daily, and was able to insure it but it was a decade earlier. During that time I also had a 1978 Lincoln Continental town coupe (2-doors, and a beautiful machine), but I sold that within a few weeks as it was a ridiculous gas guzzler. My plan was to also get a 1960 Chevy bel-air at the time for better parts availability. I was a bit wrapped up with a few antique car collectors at the time, such a bad influence! I had just moved back to the US after living in Italy, and the bigger classic car for me, the better. :azn:
With antique tags or similar antique/collector car or bike insurance, use is supposed to be limited because you're not paying for it. No driving for work, school and limited mileage. Many I know with such tags & insurance cheat. Can't tell you what happens when things really go wrong and claims are filed.
If you buy plain insurance, like I have on my 73 Chevy truck, drive it however you want. there's basically no payout if your vehicle is totaled and there may be limits on what they'll provide for coverage beyond basic use. There can be other snags. Decades old models & ViNs don't always fit into new electronic forms and databases with insurance or DMV for insurance or registration. Had a serious problem with this on my 73 in 2018-19. Thankfully it was resolved without more significant problems.
In between these two is agreed value policies, which I've used for years. Many companies will sell you a policy for a realistic agreed value on any vehicle and charge accordingly. I've used these for years because I've always had older vehicles on the road that were worth more than scrap weight if totaled or stolen. Sometimes they require a formal written appraisal from a professional, usually pics to verify its not a POS like my old truck. It costs more than some policies but is still less (at least for the vehicles I afford) than full coverage on a brand new car. Use the vehicle however you like, no restrictions. You pay for what you get.
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The brakes are only adequate, but I drove a 1949 Chevrolet Styleside Deluxe that I bought for $35 when in high school. It burned a bit of oil, but the clock worked and the upholstery was pretty good. It ran fantastic for a year, but spun a bearing when I neglected the oil level and took it on the interstate. It is simple, spacious, and easy to maintain. I still see one running around from time to time.
(https://i.ibb.co/HCmQ790/IMG-0646.jpg)
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C-4 Vette many nice ones out the at decent$$. Parts are not a problem. Not fast but nice drivers
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Al Bundy's car.
Ha. Yep, I forgot about that. My suggestion was because it's very easy to work on, cheap to keep, fairly economical even by todays standards. My first choice would be:
(https://i.ibb.co/jyG9KT8/My-Cougar-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jyG9KT8)
But alas, it's long gone. Still miss it.
John Henry
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Maybe my viewpoint is skewed a bit because of where I've always lived, how I've commuted, and how I travel now .... BUT ...
A lot of posts refer to "being able to keep up with modern traffic".
1) When I lived in a big city (twice, once for three years and once for two), I never drove a car into the city, or in the city. I took the public transport, took a bike, or walked (ran when I were younger and more fit). There was no need to have a vehicle that would run 90 MPH in bumper to bumper traffic, because I'd never drive on such a road. If I were ever in a place like that, it would be on a business trip and I was in a rental car; my personal car never entered into it.
2) When I was working and commuting every day into a 100,000 person small metro area, I never needed any performance that a Vespa P200E or an MGB or a 1953 Dodge Meadowbrook (all of which I used as commuters) wouldn't provide. If there's a "bad" section of road, I just avoid it; you don't have to be on a road you don't want to be on, not around here.
3) In retirement, Fay and I travel all over the USA on the roads. On our recent 7500 mile trip, we were on a total of 20 miles of Interstate, and we just rode in the slow lane with a reasonable space in front of us. We were on a big Triumph, but any vehicle back to 1939 would have handled it.
In summary, is there really a significant number of people here who MUST take a horrifying "Death Race 2000" road into work every day, like 400 into Toronto, or I-5 or I-285 or I-95 or some DFW road, and so could NOT use a 1946 Dodge or a 1968 Rambler Rebel because of the engine and brakes? I'm not a wallflower when it comes to travel, but I don't need Judge Dredd's car to get ANYWHERE I want to go ....
Lannis
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Yeah, it depends a huge amount on where you are.
I'm in rural New Hampshire right now, so I could feasibly get wherever I needed to go in anything (bike or car) made after about 1925 -- that's when cars and bikes generally started having front brakes. My father has a 1929 Reo Flying Cloud, one of the first cars with hydraulic brakes, and it would do just fine here. Cruises at about 60mph, does great in the snow, drives well enough. And it's cool because it's mostly original, over 90 years old, and we're the second owners.
I grew up in Southern California, though, and that's a different story. I rode scooters from the early 1960's daily, up until the early 1990's, but then the national 55mph speed limit was repealed, and the scooters became marginal. In SoCal, I wouldn't want to run anything daily (again, car or bike) that was older than the late 1960's.
PhilB
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I was in Sacramento this summer for the flat track races. I was on I-80 which was backing up a bit, so I hopped into the HOV lane. Next thing I knew I was running 85+ and felt like I was holding up traffic because I wasn't riding the rear bumper of the car in front of me and the cars behind were pushing me. But normal traffic here runs pretty fast. So I wouldn't want to be in it with a 50's Plymouth Cranbrook with Fluid Drive.
kk
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Maybe my viewpoint is skewed a bit because of where I've always lived, how I've commuted, and how I travel now .... BUT ...
A lot of posts refer to "being able to keep up with modern traffic".
1) When I lived in a big city (twice, once for three years and once for two), I never drove a car into the city, or in the city. I took the public transport, took a bike, or walked (ran when I were younger and more fit). There was no need to have a vehicle that would run 90 MPH in bumper to bumper traffic, because I'd never drive on such a road. If I were ever in a place like that, it would be on a business trip and I was in a rental car; my personal car never entered into it.
2) When I was working and commuting every day into a 100,000 person small metro area, I never needed any performance that a Vespa P200E or an MGB or a 1953 Dodge Meadowbrook (all of which I used as commuters) wouldn't provide. If there's a "bad" section of road, I just avoid it; you don't have to be on a road you don't want to be on, not around here.
3) In retirement, Fay and I travel all over the USA on the roads. On our recent 7500 mile trip, we were on a total of 20 miles of Interstate, and we just rode in the slow lane with a reasonable space in front of us. We were on a big Triumph, but any vehicle back to 1939 would have handled it.
In summary, is there really a significant number of people here who MUST take a horrifying "Death Race 2000" road into work every day, like 400 into Toronto, or I-5 or I-285 or I-95 or some DFW road, and so could NOT use a 1946 Dodge or a 1968 Rambler Rebel because of the engine and brakes? I'm not a wallflower when it comes to travel, but I don't need Judge Dredd's car to get ANYWHERE I want to go ....
Lannis
:thumb: :thumb:
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WOW thats sweet!! I can really see the shared lines from my LTD to that also. I do have to say, even though I do own a 72, I think 71 would be the top.. 72 was when almost all US makers started detuning a bit. But really today a slightly lowed compression ratio in your old 429 on today's gas is not really a bad thing!!
72 was the last year of small bumpers. In 1973 everyone had to have 5mph safety bumpers. And they uglied up some great cars.
1972 Mark IV and Thunderbird. First year of this platform, and only year with the sculpted bumpers.
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From 1981 to 1993 my only car was a 1961 Triumph TR4. Drove it regularly across Ohio and used it through 3 Toledo winters. My only back up was a 1978 T140 Bonneville. What I learned is the less vintage the driver is, the more vintage a car you can drive. Now, I am too old for vintage.
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From 1981 to 1993 my only car was a 1961 Triumph TR4. Drove it regularly across Ohio and used it through 3 Toledo winters. My only back up was a 1978 T140 Bonneville. What I learned is the less vintage the driver is, the more vintage a car you can drive. Now, I am too old for vintage.
Yep .
Dusty
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True on location. When I drove my old classic cars, I lived in Illinois in a smaller town where I didn't need to get on the highway hardly ever, and my drive to work was through town about 10 minutes away. I also had a more modern car for winters. I tried that in Ohio, larger metro area, wasn't as much fun and pretty much gave up on classic cars (I just have old cars now.. lol). Any classic car, it you have deep pockets can be made safe(er) by upgrading brakes, suspension, seats, seatbelts, etc. Driving one as-built back then, then I'd keep that to side roads only.
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3 YEARS ago, I went to state auction where the state sells off their surplus items once a month. I picked up a 2000 cherokee Jeep for 1600, drove it home.
It had 180k miles, paint is rough but body was in excellent condition. ONly the drivers seat is in need of repair.
I replaced tires, brakes, radiator, hoses, belt, plugs, coil pack and had the tranny rebuilt in the next 6 months. 30k later it runs like a top, no issues and is cheap to insure and very easy to work on. Gas mileage not great but with $2 a gallon gas, its not an issue.
Just an idea to think about.
Old Head
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Maybe my viewpoint is skewed a bit because of where I've always lived, how I've commuted, and how I travel now .... BUT ...
1) When I lived in a big city (twice, once for three years and once for two), I never drove a car into the city, or in the city. I took the public transport, took a bike, or walked (ran when I were younger and more fit). There was no need to have a vehicle that would run 90 MPH in bumper to bumper traffic, because I'd never drive on such a road. If I were ever in a place like that, it would be on a business trip and I was in a rental car; my personal car never entered into it.
Lannis
On my commute each day, I have about 12 miles of interstate. Posted 70mph, but traffic flows 80mph-90mph. It's not unusual for me to merge onto the interstate and run 85mph in three lanes of traffic for the entire 12 miles.
Twice per day, every day of the week. There are the occasional older cars hanging in the slow lane at 65 mph, but during rush hour, they're real-deal hazards to look out for. Especially during twilight, at 630AM.
This is a suburban interstate in a metro of 530,000 people in Northwest Arkansas.
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between the de-powerization of the engines and the hideous bumpers, a real challenge was thrown to the car makers. in my opinion, it took until the mid 80s for them to start to deal with both situations. In 1984, I was selling Oldsmobiles (remember those) and my Cutlass demo had descent looking molded color matched bumpers front and back, unfortunately, the energy crisis had hit under the hood - 3.8 litre V6 rated at 110 hp. pathetic but no worse than the other cars of the day.
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between the de-powerization of the engines and the hideous bumpers, a real challenge was thrown to the car makers. in my opinion, it took until the mid 80s for them to start to deal with both situations. In 1984, I was selling Oldsmobiles (remember those) and my Cutlass demo had descent looking molded color matched bumpers front and back, unfortunately, the energy crisis had hit under the hood - 3.8 litre V6 rated at 110 hp. pathetic but no worse than the other cars of the day.
That Cutlass is a Rolls Royce compared to the "diesels" that they put in those things for a year or two. They ALL blew up, and folks bought an almost-new car with a blown diesel engine, cheap.
"I'll yank out that diesel, drop in a crate GM small-block V8, and have a really nice car for a couple thousand bucks!!"
There were a lot of disappointed people that made that decision .... !
Lannis
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the diesels caused many drivers to switch to asian imports. i think it hurt gm's reputation even to this day.
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Ford Pinto with rack and pinion, disk brakes was a blast to drive and got 30 MPH on the HWY. I bought one for $800 and drove it into the ground. It was a great car.
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If you had a good mechanic on tap weekly, I think you could drive an early 60s E-Type Jag in modern traffic every day without a lot of stress: 150 mph performance, disc brakes that worked and pleasantly light steering. I don’t think anybody would drive one in winter weather though and the AC was generally non-existent.
A C2 Corvette of the same model year, now as then, would with similar performance be more reliable but more truckish to drive.
A 1970 240Z would work just fine for me in daily service.
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That Cutlass is a Rolls Royce compared to the "diesels" that they put in those things for a year or two. They ALL blew up, and folks bought an almost-new car with a blown diesel engine, cheap.
"I'll yank out that diesel, drop in a crate GM small-block V8, and have a really nice car for a couple thousand bucks!!"
There were a lot of disappointed people that made that decision .... !
Lannis
The wife and I had a 80 Cutless with that lump in it.. it was her dads, and we got it right before he passed. He cumuited from Albany NY to LI almost every day and it had over 350K on it.. OK, granted it was on like its third engine.. and a uncountable number of head gaskets... But I gotta say..when they did run, they ran vary well. They also got amazing MPG.. Granted I think the head bolts were made of pasta... When we got it it had just blown its head gaskets..again... and we had a old school bus mechanic put it back together for us. I tell you that guy knew his stuff, and it was a screamer when he was done! I think with todays better tec and some work with modern gaskets, and hardware, I bet you could build one right.. Sadly GM didnt hit the bullseye with that one, and it was a but a tick in the time line of bad engine designs from GM..[ya Im talking to you Caddy 4,6,8!!]
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I built this 37 Chevy truck in 1995...I installed disc brakes in the front, a sway bar and it was lowered about 2 inches but still has the stock straight axles and steering..The engine is a 50's GMC 302 inline 6 with some modifications, about 225 HP, Camaro 5 speed trans...I drove it on long trips and sometimes in expressway commuter traffic...A tight cab for a 6 foot guy, noisy, but it could roll along at 75 mph ...of course it does not have the stability of a newer truck, so you have to be on top of your driving....I sold it to a guy in Florida who uses it as a daily driver...It was fun, but I feel safer in a newer vehicle rather than that old tin can...
The other trucks in the photo was also modifed some and driven in traffic but not daily...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/8472/8119728723_7b6a63d6fa_z.jpg)
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Needed a pickup to tow my boat & bike trailer, went to local Ford shop & informed young sales guy..." I'd like a basic white F150 with rubber floors and roll up windows. He laughed & said "don't make that anymore." I replied" pretty sure they do." He checked with sales mangler who said "believe we actually have one with the smaller back seat that was special ordered for a commercial customer who never came for it." After some serious searching about they found it, I adopted it, or "kindly took that turkey off their hands." I love it and plan to have it a couple decades. Friends & family are amazed & fascinated by the vinyl upholstery, roll up windows & rubber mats. It's an oddity for youngsters & they post videos on their social media to amaze their friends. Just wish it had 3 on the column, but the aromatic shifty thingy is helpful when sucking the boat up the slippery ramp.
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Based on the long wish list, I would recommend a 2012 Toyota Corolla. The idea that an ancient car could perform to today's standards is wildly unrealistic. I distinctly remember when 50-70,000 miles was a LOT for a car.
Having said all of that, I think a good 240 would do fine. Very solid engineering and a fine 2.4L engine. Easy to work on and parts quality was good.
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"I distinctly remember when 50-70,000 miles was a LOT for a car."
Jeezuz, you're as old as I am! BTW, I drive a 2002 Saturn, single overhead cam. It goes as fast as I want to, doesn't sweat it. Gets 42mpg on the highway and I average 38mpg. All you need do is keep the oil changed & don't let that cam chain get too old. It's not that expensive. Car cost me 800 without rust or damage.
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Based on the long wish list, I would recommend a 2012 Toyota Corolla. The idea that an ancient car could perform to today's standards is wildly unrealistic. I distinctly remember when 50-70,000 miles was a LOT for a car.
Having said all of that, I think a good 240 would do fine. Very solid engineering and a fine 2.4L engine. Easy to work on and parts quality was good.
Well, that's a long time ago. The first car that has an expected lifespan of over 100K miles was the 1936 Plymouth, and by the 1960's pretty much anything would do that with basic maintenance. My family were Alfa Romeo nuts, and we drove *six* Alfas to 150K to 200K each -- 3 1960's Giulia sedans, a 1967 Gt Jr., a 1973 Berlina, and a 1981 GVT6.
With a decent budget and a good line of supply for parts, I wouldn't hesitate to do a daily on, say, a 1967 Giulia Super sedan (or wagon, even better but they only made 19 of those). One of those would be fully capable of anything needed.
PhilB
(https://i.ibb.co/hRy8sSt/ARSuper-Wagon.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hRy8sSt)
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Everyone has their favorites, and I am no different. I have a 1968 Mustang that is very reliable. Easy to work on if needed, and its not needed that much. New cars are great with all their advancements, but it also creates problems that the typical person cannot tackle. My '68 is very, very easy to do anything to. So many places to get parts for it, you can replace anything on it. I have driven it from where I live in TN to SC, NC, MD, FL, KY, GA, and a few more in between.
Does it get great mpg? No, but I dont really care about that. I have driven this thing all over and has been great. It had AC in it, but I took it out. Has crank windows, and even a foot pedal yo operate the windshield wiper fluid. All of that can be more modernized though. Mustangs are one of the few cars that have a large enough following, online catalogs, and shops that work on them. Oh, and insurance is pretty cheap too. If you are looking for a car 40ish years old, that or something similar is a good pick imo.
I am not rich by any means. I do have this Mustang that is very build and runs great, I have a 2014 Maserati, I have a 2016 BMW X6M, and a Moto Guizzi MGX-21. Being completely honest, I get the most joy driving my Mustang than anything. Get the most looks too. But a close second to that, is my Guzzi.
My Mustang and I have history though, so it makes it easier to enjoy it the most.
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Based on the long wish list, I would recommend a 2012 Toyota Corolla. The idea that an ancient car could perform to today's standards is wildly unrealistic. I distinctly remember when 50-70,000 miles was a LOT for a car.
Having said all of that, I think a good 240 would do fine. Very solid engineering and a fine 2.4L engine. Easy to work on and parts quality was good.
The earlier Datsun Fairlady 2000 roadster would also work . With very little work the engine can produce 160 HP , and the brakes and handling are good .
Dusty
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Reliable - it's a small block Chevy - easy to work on, ample parts available, roomy, reasonably comfortable, especially with Vintage Air installed. Runs along at freeway speeds for as long as your wallet holds out (actually better mileage than my 2002 SL500 when I installed the Holly Economaster carb and matching intake manifold a number of years ago). Stops pretty good (front disc brakes - rears one of these days).
It's the wife's car, but she sometimes lets me drive it. It's insured as a daily driver - no mileage restrictions or any of that other collectible car stuff. She drives her Prius most of the time as she likes the mileage better, but there are days when nothing but the '57 will do.
(https://i.ibb.co/3dpq9nf/Tina-s-57-Chevy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3dpq9nf)
jdg
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Responses in this thread and the "oldest bike" thread are some of funniest $hit I've read in a very long time. :shocked:
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Responses in this thread and the "oldest bike" thread are some of funniest $hit I've read in a very long time. :shocked:
(https://i.ibb.co/MfPCtB1/funnylikeaclown.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MfPCtB1)
Hmm ... "funny" because there's a lot of BS that isn't real or .....
Tommy
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In so many ways it's almost impossible to list them all...
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Reliable - it's a small block Chevy - easy to work on, ample parts available, roomy, reasonably comfortable, especially with Vintage Air installed. Runs along at freeway speeds for as long as your wallet holds out (actually better mileage than my 2002 SL500 when I installed the Holly Economaster carb and matching intake manifold a number of years ago). Stops pretty good (front disc brakes - rears one of these days).
It's the wife's car, but she sometimes lets me drive it. It's insured as a daily driver - no mileage restrictions or any of that other collectible car stuff. She drives her Prius most of the time as she likes the mileage better, but there are days when nothing but the '57 will do.
(https://i.ibb.co/3dpq9nf/Tina-s-57-Chevy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3dpq9nf)
jdg
I have the world's greatest wife, but if SHE wanted to drive a car like that, it would just be a bonus!
I'd even buy her a Prius to go along with it!!!
Lannis