Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bad Chad on February 12, 2020, 05:02:45 PM
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This certainly doesn't apply to all car guys, there are many exceptions, but it does fit a lot. I don't have any cool cars of my own, but I know cool cars and appreciate them, and I know and have spoke to tons of "car" guys, and a good many of them don't appreciate cool bikes.
I've told many a dude how slick his Porsche, Austin Healy, Mazaratti, 67 Camaro, etc is, and then mention my interest in motorcycles, and their eyes glaze over! I would have that thought motor-heads would appreciate most any cool motorized contraption, but I would be wrong. Or maybe I'm wrong in thinking they are all motor-heads?
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First you need to convince me that a car , or any motor vehicle can be defined as cool .
Dusty
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Because unfortunately there are too many guys who buy stuff for the “image” they want to project, rather than appreciation of cool internal combustion motorvation! These people are most likely to own harleys and spout lines like “if it ain’t harley it ain’t *#%+”
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Dusty, I've always thought these were cool, I got to drive a friends back in the day.
(https://i.ibb.co/wLG8fht/71-FCC2-DB-21-FF-461-D-9998-E70-A8-BA0-DC91.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wLG8fht)
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Dusty, I've always thought these were cool, I got to drive a friends back in the day.
(https://i.ibb.co/wLG8fht/71-FCC2-DB-21-FF-461-D-9998-E70-A8-BA0-DC91.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wLG8fht)
The E Type was a beautiful car , but *cool* gets tossed around like so many other terms where it has no meaning . The latest is *artisinal* , I am always interested how cool applies to anything other than a state of mind .
Dusty
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First you need to convince me that a car , or any motor vehicle can be defined as cool .
Dusty
Any Questions? :cool:
(https://i.ibb.co/XxKVy7H/64991356-2971107766262905-5486270170257162240-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XxKVy7H)
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Any Questions? :cool:
(https://i.ibb.co/XxKVy7H/64991356-2971107766262905-5486270170257162240-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XxKVy7H)
Sure , why is that cool ? It's just some sheet metal covering up a bunch of moving parts .
Dusty
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I think most car gear heads don't get on a bike. American car gear heads usually ride HD's while Euro car guys ride Euro bikes.
You sure come up w/some wild questons. You working yet?
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This certainly doesn't apply to all car guys, there are many exceptions, but it does fit a lot. I don't have any cool cars of my own, but I know cool cars and appreciate them, and I know and have spoke to tons of "car" guys, and a good many of them don't appreciate cool bikes.
I've told many a dude how slick his Porsche, Austin Healy, Mazaratti, 67 Camaro, etc is, and then mention my interest in motorcycles, and their eyes glaze over! I would have that thought motor-heads would appreciate most any cool motorized contraption, but I would be wrong. Or maybe I'm wrong in thinking they are all motor-heads?
I think it depends, many 'car guys' are fan boys of THEIR brand and see nothing else.
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Sure , why is that cool ? It's just some sheet metal covering up a bunch of moving parts .
Dusty
Why is ANYTHING" cool?
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I think someone who built the car themselves would appreciate a nice bike more than one that just wrote a check.
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Why is ANYTHING" cool?
Well , mostly because marketing has sold things as cool . Seriously , cool is a state of mind , it can't be bought , same as class isn't something money can buy .
Dusty
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Chad, that's all backwards when you talk to the ignorant that don't ride. A car is just a car. (I have 'vette and still, it's just a car.)
Now bikes, they're fun and exciting in a way that no car will EVER be. Bikes are like being able to fly (like a bird, not in plane).
There're cool cars. Nice cars. Good looking cars. Fast cars. But they're just cars. I'll take my EV over my 'vette for fun. And the Bandit, Sport or Duc for even more fun.
Cars are for driving to the gym, grocery store or to church. Cars are just transportation but they're not about "the get there". Cars are just a means, the bike is the journey. Driving just isn't riding.
:grin:
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Well , mostly because marketing has sold things as cool . Seriously , cool is a state of mind , it can't be bought , same as class isn't something money can buy .
Dusty
Right, so the issue isn't the definition of 'cool' it's just an aphorism to describe desirable, likeable, popular unique qualities in an object. So let me help you "Why dont car guys appreciate motorcycles" :evil:
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My sense is that most car owners who have not owned/ridden bikes seldom have the learning experiences needed to even partially shape a concept as to what constitutes a cool bike. I would think many folks' concept of cool includes attributes of exceptional be it design or competence etc and , at least in my case, a substantial dose of restraint. Cool cars to me were always the Q ships, the sleepers (restraint) but the internals would reflect the competence of their owners/builders. Where would a car owner who doesn't own/ride or hang with folks that do, get that needed background? On the other hand the "bi-vehicle" owners likely not only have the needed experiences with both types of vehicles but they have also done a pretty darn good job of shaping a strong idea of what constitutes cool in motor cars and bikes( and to some it will be just sheet metal and to others it will be much more). Regarding the original question, I'm pretty sure it's pretty much a function of experience rather than attitude for most folks but then again, I think most folks are pretty good people and don't cop an attitude when it comes to marques or # of wheels. ( well maybe not if they own a porsche :)
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Chad, that's all backwards when you talk to the ignorant that don't ride. A car is just a car. (I have 'vette and still, it's just a car.)
Now bikes, they're fun and exciting in a way that no car will EVER be. Bikes are like being able to fly (like a bird, not in plane).
There're cool cars. Nice cars. Good looking cars. Fast cars. But they're just cars. I'll take my EV over my 'vette for fun. And the Bandit, Sport or Duc for even more fun.
Cars are for driving to the gym, grocery store or to church. Cars are just transportation but they're not about "the get there". Cars are just a means, the bike is the journey. Driving just isn't riding.
:grin:
Not MY cool car :cool: (pic'd above) It is as much fun, as addicting and joyful enriching blast to drive experience as my favorite motorcycle. Best part is I rebuilt it from the ground up. Same is true for many unique, classic, high performance, ect. cars. But I get your point, unless you are taking about mini vans.... My buddy raves about his Minivan all the time.... I ask him if he wears pink panties too.... :cool:
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Thanks it Bulldog. Truth be told, some of them aren't really what I consider to be "cool", but at least there not completely pedestrian cages. I guess I just set myself up thinking that perhaps since this guy thinks enough to drive something different from the usual pack of late model boredom, maybe he might get the allure of Italian motorcycles. Mostly they don't.
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Thanks it Bulldog. Truth be told, some of them aren't really what I consider to be "cool", but at least there not completely pedestrian cages. I guess I just set myself up thinking that perhaps since this guy thinks enough to drive something different from the usual pack of late model boredom, maybe he might get the allure of Italian motorcycles. Mostly they don't.
I think TRUE motor heads and enthusiasts appreciate and enjoy any and all motorized vehicles. And let's face it, character and politeness kinda prompts (at least me) to show equal respect. But truth be told, most are 'fan boys' I see the same from the crotch rocket, Harley, BMW, Jeeper crowd when it comes to bikes... Cars are just another degree of separation. I will say that most of my friends who are into cars or bikes have genuine appreciation for both, even if they just have a foot in one world..... I'm obsessed, and if I had the means, I'd give Jay Leno a run for his money on collection size.
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Yup, I like em all, from a Farmall H to a Piper cub.
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Not MY cool car :cool: (pic'd above) It is as much fun, as addicting and joyful enriching blast to drive experience as my favorite motorcycle. Best part is I rebuilt it from the ground up. Same is true for many unique, classic, high performance, ect. cars. But I get your point, unless you are taking about mini vans.... My buddy raves about his Minivan all the time.... I ask him if he wears pink panties too.... :cool:
912? A nice car, won't kill you like a 911. I drove one and liked it. Still just a car.
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Certainly I'd like an open top 2 seater, a Duetto, Fairlady, Big Healy, Triumph 4A. But it would be like a Norton, 650 Brit or Superhawk. More a nostalgia trip than a thrill trip? I'd rather take a good run on a thrilling bike. I don't think a Miata would do it since I can take the top off the 'vette and it still isn't a bike.
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I love bikes.
I like 2 seat sports cars.
I use Trucks.
All the rest are just cages.
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I would have that thought motor-heads would appreciate most any cool motorized contraption, but I would be wrong. Or maybe I'm wrong in thinking they are all motor-heads?
I used to think that all car & bike guys were gear heads, but over the years I've come to realize not so much.
I ride solo, but over the winter, I usually get together with a social sport touring group a couple of times to help with the PMS(Parked Motorcycle Syndrome); there are usually 15-20 riders there and I'm lucky if there are 1-2 other gear heads really into talking about machines.
I find even some of the most enthusiastic riders, really aren't into the whole mechanical mystique thing, it's more the riding and social culture that they're into, car guys same thing, fwiw.
I feel a kinship with gearheads, I can talk for hours with them,no matter what they're into, tractors, snowmobiles, 4 X 4's, hot rods, dirt or street bike riders I don't care; and I find other gear heads similar, they don't care either. jmho
Kelly
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I appreciate anything with an engine and wheels that is attractive/highly stylized or was built for performance, and usually older.
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912? A nice car, won't kill you like a 911. I drove one and liked it. Still just a car.
The voice of experience.... 'I drove one once'
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The voice of experience.... 'I drove one once'
Well I do regret not buying it. But I had no use (or room) for an old car for the nostalgia content but I understand the attraction.
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Alejandro de Tomaso was a car guy and look what he did for us. Maybe he was into bikes too since he did own a few brands, but he sure didn't know them.
As for car guys not being into bikes - I'd never given it any thought. Maybe they're just too dangerous?
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Chad, that's all backwards when you talk to the ignorant that don't ride. A car is just a car. (I have 'vette and still, it's just a car.)
Now bikes, they're fun and exciting in a way that no car will EVER be. Bikes are like being able to fly (like a bird, not in plane).
There're cool cars. Nice cars. Good looking cars. Fast cars. But they're just cars. I'll take my EV over my 'vette for fun. And the Bandit, Sport or Duc for even more fun.
Cars are for driving to the gym, grocery store or to church. Cars are just transportation but they're not about "the get there". Cars are just a means, the bike is the journey. Driving just isn't riding.
:grin:
Well I don't know which vette you have buy mine puts a smile on my face just like my bikes do.
Harry
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If a car guy doesn’t ride he is just ignorant on bikes and no amount of explaining will get past what I think may be the feeling of intimidation.
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Harry, I have an 08 C6 with stick. I drive it every dry day. Great car. But it's still just a car. Most fun of any car I've owned.
For a thrill, I'll take a bike.
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Cool's just a place in your head. If the bike or car gets you there, it's cool to you. That's enough
I love driving my TR6, it isn't fast, or really beautiful, but it feels like it is and it has something. It's cool
(https://i.ibb.co/DG5xyCz/tr6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DG5xyCz)
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Im both a car, and a bike guy.. Ive been messing with old cars, since I was 6, and started riding mini bikes a year or two after... I know a lot of car guys.. and all I know "get" bikes to some degree. Most seem to be more scared of them.. Its same, just different. Why do any of us "get" something.. Who knows what throws that switch in our heads to like what we like. Cars I like older stuff, that you need to work at... Gears to shift, brakes you hope work.. handfull at highway speeds.. Things most people have moved passed in favor of more safe, cushy means of transport. Vary few modern cars interest me. Ya, they can be fast, handle well, and get 20+mpg doing it.. My nephew has a late model camaro, and its a blast with its V8, and six speed... But give me a old station wagon with a 3 on the tree, and I will enjoy it more.. Bikes... I love my Guzzi... and a few other brands kinda fill that "cool feeling" in my brain.. But I can enjoy any bike, new and old..
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Many aviation enthusuests also have or at least appreciate motorcycles. Maybe because both have to bank to turn?
GliderJohn
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My BIL was over a few months ago to show and demo his new C7 Corvette.
Neat car, and after he let me burn up his gas on some of our Bucks County backroads, we were hanging out in the garage. I pointed out my latest bike, the BMW K75S, "a triple". To that he said, "What do you mean triple, it only has two wheels".
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Yup, I like em all, from a Farmall H to a Piper cub.
I've been diggin this tractor, cool or not? Problem is I don't have the ground to dig with it.
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/grd/d/saint-paul-late-model-international-140/7061646114.html
(https://i.ibb.co/hmkHc9X/57627-FC6-8470-4-E45-A211-391-E07811-AE1.png) (https://ibb.co/hmkHc9X)
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My cars, tractors, 4-wheeler, mowers, and chain saws are useful, productive, and (in my case) kinda fun. They are fascinating examples of fine engineering and they make my life easier. However, motorcycles are different. They affect me in a tactile and emotional way. No other motorized transportation is like that, even most aircraft. I did a whole bunch of work on all my friend's muscle-cars in high school, but it was just so I would have somebody to drive me around on weekends. Motorcycles are something else, entirely. They are conveyances, yes; but also a different sort of travel vehicle. They isolate us from sound with loud wind noise; they convey every nuance of weather and aroma, they lean into turns, and more: they add color to one's life.
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Because unfortunately there are too many guys who buy stuff for the “image” they want to project, rather than appreciation of cool internal combustion motorvation! These people are most likely to own harleys and spout lines like “if it ain’t harley it ain’t *#%+”
My comment is along the same lines. You may find that a great many guys with "cool" cars really don't know anything about them. They have someone else do the work on them and seldom dirty their hands. So, if they know nothing about their own cars then (and therefore do not appreciate them) how can you expect them to appreciate the art of your motorcycle?
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I have a fondness for all machines, especially ones that have engines. Boats and bikes are my favorites. Cars, not so much. The car guys I know that don’t have bikes think that bikes are too dangerous.
Larry
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Cars, in America at least, are pretty much a universal thing. *Everybody* drives. Most people have been involved in the purchase of a car, so they all have at least thought a little about the different aspects of a car, and what they do and look like and so on.
Motorcycles are far less common an experience. Maybe 10% of Americans ride, and probably less than 25% have even been on a bike at all, even as a passenger.
I was a car nut growing up; my parents drove a pair of Alfa Romeos, and I learned to drive on one. I knew motorcycles existed, but I didn't know anything about them. If I saw one, I'd think it was cool, but I couldn't really have a conversation about it beyond that.
I had a moped in high school, but that wasn't exactly an enthusastic experience. When I was in college, I got more into machines in general. I had a good friend who was into scooters, and fixed Vespas and Lambrettas. I had another friend that was into guns. I developed into a comprehensive gearhead, and have now been into bikes, scooters, cars, planes, tractors, trains, guns, typewriters -- anything with moving parts that goes click, clack, and whirr -- for a few decades. But before that, it was mostly just cars for me, and I simply didn't have much awareness or knowledge of anything else.
Also, cars are easier to appreciate on an aesthetic level. The bodywork and interiors and such -- an ordinary person can appreciate those more easily, without *having* to be a gearhead. So I think for most people, it's just lack of experience and awareness of motorcycles in general. They don't know what they are missing.
PhilB
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My problem is I like anything that moves. Motorcycles cars planes boats bicycle kites ,,,
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When I was laid up with my back infection in 2017, my loving wife asked me to consider another hobby when I could walk again. I know she was concerned so I put in a real effort test driving many different sports cars, muscle cars, as well as Jeep Wranglers.
Nothing came close to my love of riding. If I truly had to give up riding I would probably go in an entirely different direction and do more camping, fishing, walking, etc.
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For me, motorcycling and shooting are the sweet spots that combine the greatest joy of doing, with the fascination of gearhead machinery, and an achievable cost. If I had enough money to do as much as I wanted of anything I liked, then yes, I'd be big into small airplanes, with a fair bit of skydiving thrown in there. But at a reasonably achievable price point, it's motorcycling and shooting.
The other fun "doing things" things are great, and I do some of them. The other gearhead machinery things are great, and I maintain an interest in some of them. But bikes and guns are the things that combine both best.
PhilB
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For me, motorcycling and shooting are the sweet spots that combine the greatest joy of doing, with the fascination of gearhead machinery, and an achievable cost. If I had enough money to do as much as I wanted of anything I liked, then yes, I'd be big into small airplanes, with a fair bit of skydiving thrown in there. But at a reasonably achievable price point, it's motorcycling and shooting.
The other fun "doing things" things are great, and I do some of them. The other gearhead machinery things are great, and I maintain an interest in some of them. But bikes and guns are the things that combine both best.
PhilB
Very interesting comment Phil. I totally agree with you, as motorcycle nut and a gun nut. Part of this is the mechanical aspect of the machines involved--a Ducati air-cooled Desmo twin is cool in the same way that a Luger or S&W revolver is cool.
But I think there is another factor at play, at least for me. Motorcycling and competitive shooting are the two events that most profoundly put me in that selfless, right brain, "flow" state. I think that's the main appeal for me.
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From SmithSwede:
But I think there is another factor at play, at least for me. Motorcycling and competitive shooting are the two events that most profoundly put me in that selfless, right brain, "flow" state. I think that's the main appeal for me.
You have nailed it. All the above, plus I will add centering and using the perfect thermal in a glider. It is the "Zen" state for the better lack of the word where all movement is not really on the surface conscience, it is just happening and all else in the world is blacked out. :thumb:
GliderJohn
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Well I do regret not buying it. But I had no use (or room) for an old car for the nostalgia content but I understand the attraction.
I've owned lots of cars, from Muscle Cars (70 Cutlass 442, Buick GNX, Grand Prix) to some Euro models, a couple GTI's, BMW E36 M3, a slew of Turbo Saab's, etc. But none deliver the visceral feel, connection, or performance of my 912. The 4cyl car is about 200lbs lighter than the 911, and I built the 914 based motor (bumped to 2200cc) to make 150HP at the wheels. It is not a drag car or in 930 (Turbo) level, but holds its own against other NA 911s of the same vintage, and is a blast on track days. The near 50/50 weight balance with a full tank of fuel makes it far less prone to switch ends in sharp turns if you have to chop speed. Plus it is air cooled and shaft drive :cool:
This is the first street car I've owned/driven that I can drive at the same speeds in turns as I can on 2 wheels. Such a tremendous car in every way, and the first I love driving as much as I do riding.
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I've owned lots of cars, from Muscle Cars (70 Cutlass 442, Buick GNX, Grand Prix) to some Euro models, a couple GTI's, BMW E36 M3, a slew of Turbo Saab's, etc. But none deliver the visceral feel, connection, or performance of my 912. The 4cyl car is about 200lbs lighter than the 911, and I built the 914 based motor (bumped to 2200cc) to make 150HP at the wheels. It is not a drag car or in 930 (Turbo) level, but holds its own against other NA 911s of the same vintage, and is a blast on track days. The near 50/50 weight balance with a full tank of fuel makes it far less prone to switch ends in sharp turns if you have to chop speed. Plus it is air cooled and shaft drive :cool:
This is the first street car I've owned/driven that I can drive at the same speeds in turns as I can on 2 wheels. Such a tremendous car in every way, and the first I love driving as much as I do riding.
If I could own an old resto modded sports car, a 912 would be a good one. A Duetto would likely be my #1. I mentioned some above. There are other options such as a Cobra or Lister kit. I've got the money, room or time for none. My 'vette is plenty fast daily driver but bikes are more fun than any car.
I do wish I owned that 912 when I had the chance but then I wouldn't have the bikes or travel trailer and would spend a lot of money to Mr Dumont here in OKC. And this one was an original 912, not a mid-70s VW powered version. Amazing how much even 4 cylinders cost with a Stuttgart horse on it. So I guess I am lucky I didn't get it?
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If I could own an old resto modded sports car, a 912 would be a good one. A Duetto would likely be my #1. I mentioned some above. There are other options such as a Cobra or Lister kit. I've got the money, room or time for none. My 'vette is plenty fast daily driver but bikes are more fun than any car.
I do wish I owned that 912 when I had the chance but then I wouldn't have the bikes or travel trailer and would spend a lot of money to Mr Dumont here in OKC. And this one was an original 912, not a mid-70s VW powered version. Amazing how much even 4 cylinders cost with a Stuttgart horse on it. So I guess I am lucky I didn't get it?
I'd never be able to buy or own one if I hadn't gotten this one. Basically pulled it out of the woods having been abandoned by the owner for 15 years. Was a total mess, and I got it for $300, and took 6 years to restore. Did a complete tear down and rebuild. Did everything myself with the exception of having the heads reworked, and the final bodywork and paint. I did strip it down to bare metal, re-galvanize and seal with a 2 part epoxy primer. The body shop had the car for a year.... Fit my car in in spare time and did the job for 1/5 the market value. The guy did a flawless job....
I took the opportunity to do tons of upgrades and customization from adding 4 wheel vented brakes (stock were non vented) Derilin suspension bushings rather than the pressed rubber, lowered to euro ride height, a custom exhaust, hot cam (for broad wide torque) 2200 cc Nikisil P&C kit, Dellorto Carbs, electronic Ignition, and a series of modern gauges including digital oil temp, head temp, Fuel/Air ratio, volt meter, and a bunch of other stuff.... Was a fun project and 5 years of bargain hunting on craigslist and forums and swap meets. The motor is sourced from the 914 which was sourced from VW. The 914 crowd are a great bunch (very like Guzzistas) and they have some Pete Roper types that are genius on engine rebuilding and tuning. Couldn't have done it without their help. **Truth in advertizing, I just looked at the Dyno sheet, it was 135 HP at the wheels, not 150.
No way I would or could buy this straight up.....
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It’s interesting to watch motorcycle auctions and comments on Bring a Trailer, the popular classic car auction site. The average knowledge is not high, and prices are all over the map. 1990 R100GS for $15K anyone? Meanwhile a 500 Pantah gets as much attention as a bevel 750 Sport, and so on. Car people are all about looks and image, not so much about understanding, working on or using the vehicle. It’s why I like bikes and old planes more, and one more reason I prefer older bikes - as new bikes get more like cars, so do the owners of many bike brands. Superficial vehicle enthusiasm is not my thing. Guzzi is somewhat of an exception.
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Harry, I have an 08 C6 with stick. I drive it every dry day. Great car. But it's still just a car. Most fun of any car I've owned.
For a thrill, I'll take a bike.
Well the difference might be that I have a 66 BB and it's definitely not just a car, in fact, it's barely a car. :azn:
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Interesting Thread. A lot of expected responses for a motorcycle forum we tend to adamantly defend our moto addictions using various kinds of logic as to why motorcycling is indeed better that a car could ever be.
I find no reason to discriminate one from the other. Motorcycles and cars are simply DIFFERENT, and you cannot substitute one for the other.
There is CERTAINLY nothing finer than the first ride of the spring. The smell of the air, the warmth of the sun (assuming there is enough temp on the day to FEEL the warmth of the sun on some Spring Days). In the summer, there is nothing like feeling the temp differential as you glide by bodies of water, and go through an overhanging tree tunnel after coming out of the sun. The fresh air experience of motorcycling is just WAY different than riding in your car.
Both are mechanical, and if you work on your own stuff you will likely see even less separation. Gears are gears, pistons are pistons.
So both share some very interesting mechanicals, whether you talking two cylinders or 12. (And frankly I've said that you don't need more than two cylinders on a motorcycle).
Where cars get interesting is the shape of the body and the beauty of a well-appointed interior. Both aspects are important in separating the wheat from the chaff. A nice shape with a cheap interior just doesn't hit the mark. A nice interior with an ugly body - the same.
Motorcycles just do not have the breadth of diversity that cars do, and while some are breathtaking in their collection of pieces (Brough Superior, Egli Vincent), there is simply not enough SURFACE for a great design to really stand out as in - say - a Ferrari 250 GT Lusso, or even a swoopy Delage. Both of which also have quality interiors.
The PEOPLE are the difference. I love cars, and believe that I'm pretty knowledgeable about them, but most of the time car people like to tell folks that they OWN this or that.
Motorcycle people are simply more "Salt of the Earth". And I love that. Which is a HUGE reason why when I was absent after my accident for several years I eventually came back. It's the PEOPLE, particularly the Guzzi crowd, that I missed.
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I stopped being a car guy the day the dealer dropped off my new DR650.
I'd been a life long car enthusiast. I had subscriptions to Hot Rod and Car Craft for 18 years. I owned an '04 Mercury Marauder which was my summer baby. It made it to all the local cruises and car shows and a few national meets. In '09 the state tore the road out past my house (including three small bridges) and it was going to be out/unpaved for at least three years.
On a whim I bought the DR650 just so I could cut through all the road construction. That was it for me.
Since '09 I've put less than 2,000 miles on the Marauder. All my car mag subscriptions ran out 10 years ago. The car is no longer exciting or even interesting. No one has been more shocked by this complete turn around than me.
I still appreciate cars...to a degree. I no longer lust for them. I now have a Mazda 3 sedan with a 5 speed. It's fun. That's the limit of my automotive enthusiasm. Go figure.
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Car people are all about looks and image, not so much about understanding, working on or using the vehicle.
Sound, driving experience, camaraderie of belonging to a car club for racing (Porsche) or offroad adventures (Land Rover), elegant design, working or not working on the vehicle depending on how complex it is or whether you need a very sophisticated computer to fix some items, customizing to one's personal taste...all very much part of being a "car person", not only limited to pure looks and image.
Sounds very similar to what it takes to be a "motorcycle person".
Now not everyone can afford something special in the car dept. and something special in the motorcycle dept....perhaps some people's personal budget cannot stretch to extremes on both, so they pick one or the other.
Others just look at cars as basic transportation and aren't enamored with the hunk of metal...fantastic.. ..no problem either. Who really cares if someone doesn't share your interest, there are hundreds if not thousands of others who do, and you really only need a handful anyway.
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I've been around a while, and I have never found that to be true to any degree.
I have been around both, and "most" car guys appreciate the mechanical elegance of the moto but consider them too dangerous for serious travel.
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I started working on collector cars at age 15 or 16 to make money, initially using that money for my own car. That was a long time ago, I still own one V12, but over the decades since I’ve not been enamored with car collectors, in general. There are some interesting people here and there, but after about a zillion times being at some event and wanting to get away from self-impressed and annoying car people, I’ve found that motorcycle people are a lot more enjoyable and interesting. The new generation of BMW motorcycle people can be spectacularly unimpressive, basically car people on two wheels, but there are still a lot of more interesting people in motorcycles and aircraft.
Motorcycles were my solution to the car people problem years ago, but there are other solutions. One of the guys I worked for a million years ago started off with Porsches, figured out the porcupine joke had some truth, then tried 1930s Art Deco classics, didn’t like cleaning grass from tire treads to get 100 points, and ended up happily with brass era cars, driving them all over the place (coast to coast), building up ‘new’ ones and so on. He found the other people doing that to be more up his alley.
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I've been diggin this tractor, cool or not? Problem is I don't have the ground to dig with it.
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/grd/d/saint-paul-late-model-international-140/7061646114.html
(https://i.ibb.co/hmkHc9X/57627-FC6-8470-4-E45-A211-391-E07811-AE1.png) (https://ibb.co/hmkHc9X)
That's cool. Got that oddball offset engine and transmission that the smaller Farmalls all had. My grandpa had a Super A. I learned to drive it at age eight.
Larry
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This a deep philosophical question that has been asked, and there have been some good answers.
From my 56 years in the saddle I put forward this proposition.
Many people do not "get" motorcycles. They don't like them, can't see the sense in them and motor cyclists are the great unwashed. They drive cars. End of story.
Most motorcyclists have an inherent love of machinery along with their love of motorcycles. They can like cars, especially specialist makes, with an almost equal passion.
The end.
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^ Well said Muzz.
I suggest that a cool car or motorcycle is one that solicits a more positive emotional reaction than another model with similar capabilities. Case in point: My 97 F250 Crew Cab, old square body-style, with a 7.3L Turbo-Diesel, two-tone paint, and a Mexican blanket covering the back seat is far cooler than any new truck. I have this on the authority all my daughters' friends who don't give a rip about their parents' newer, more expensive, and (if I am honest with myself) more capable trucks.
My V11 Scura is cool to far more people than is my Stelvio.
It is my opinion that some car people won't let themselves appreciate motorcycles, because their partners won't "let" them have a motorcycle.
I've had a couple cool cars, but lost interest. I appreciate looking at cool cars, but I don't want another one. I only want cool trucks that can carry cool bikes.
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This a deep philosophical question that has been asked, and there have been some good answers.
From my 56 years in the saddle I put forward this proposition.
Many people do not "get" motorcycles. They don't like them, can't see the sense in them and motor cyclists are the great unwashed. They drive cars. End of story.
Most motorcyclists have an inherent love of machinery along with their love of motorcycles. They can like cars, especially specialist makes, with an almost equal passion.
The end.
I think Muzz nailed it
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The discussion on "what is cool" brings to mind two things. First, it reminds me of Pirsig's discussion on Quality. My favorite part of the book and the subject of the sub-title (which is completely lost on so many that think it's really a book about motorcycles) which is "An Inquiry into Values". The second is Tower of Power song "What is Hip"? BTW-the live version on the red TOP recording is THE definitive version to have.
But to answer the original question, it's because bike guys are cooler than car guys, and know cool where they see it.
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The unwashed masses do not get excited about a particular model, because to them, all motorbikes look alike. Cars, with their extensive bodywork, have individual identities. If you removed the bodies and just drove around on a rolling chassis, no one would be saying ‘cool mustang.’
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From SmithSwede:You have nailed it. All the above, plus I will add centering and using the perfect thermal in a glider. It is the "Zen" state for the better lack of the word where all movement is not really on the surface conscience, it is just happening and all else in the world is blacked out. :thumb:
GliderJohn
I hadn’t thought of that before, but yeah. I bet gliding is an excellent way to get into the zen or “flow” state of consciousness.
I’m going to have to try that.
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If it wasn’t Moto Guzzi motorcycles for me, it would be something else. Guzzi hits all the buttons, exotic, yet simple, rare yet easily accessible, fast, but not too fast, far more interesting people than most, and the list goes on. If Guzzi didn’t exist I would find comfort somewhere, likely offering similar feedback. But I’m happy here, with Guzzi and friends, I feel pretty lucky that way.
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If it wasn’t Moto Guzzi motorcycles for me, it would be something else. Guzzi hits all the buttons, exotic, yet simple, rare yet easily accessible, fast, but not too fast, far more interesting people than most, and the list goes on. If Guzzi didn’t exist I would find comfort somewhere, likely offering similar feedback. But I’m happy here, with Guzzi and friends, I feel pretty lucky that way.
Sums it up nicely. :thumb:
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I personally don't agree with this; I was only into cars until I got into motorcycles. Now cars bore me, I'd rather ride even my slowest bike than some 'hot' sports car. Being in a cage just doesn't provide an interesting experience for me anymore.
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The discussion on "what is cool" brings to mind two things. First, it reminds me of Pirsig's discussion on Quality. My favorite part of the book and the subject of the sub-title (which is completely lost on so many that think it's really a book about motorcycles) which is "An Inquiry into Values". The second is Tower of Power song "What is Hip"? BTW-the live version on the red TOP recording is THE definitive version to have.
But to answer the original question, it's because bike guys are cooler than car guys, and know cool where they see it.
To paraphrase Pirsig , the only cool you will find on a motorcycle is the cool you bring with you .
Since we're at it .
So you became a part of the new breed
Smokin' only the best weed
And heck ,
Dave's not here man
Dusty
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I don't recon that puts us at odds, nor do I think the references contradict. Not to mention the discourse on ghosts............. ........
But maybe the real solution is his most famos quote, at least IMHO, ".... and what is good, Pharedus, need we someone to tell us these things?"
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But to answer the original question, it's because bike guys are cooler than car guys, and know cool where they see it.
And there you have it. :thumb:
Larry
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Cool is relative.
However, some of the best discussions ever about "cool"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cO_8hWSUmg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBOdW25o3RU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoyBnuP0K9w
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Man, you almost nailed me to a T!
I have a Maserati and '68 Mustang, not a Mazaratti or '67 Camaro :grin:
True car guys would appreciate anything motor related I think. I enjoy my new fast toy, my wife's faster toy, and my fast old toy, on a different level of my Guzzi. But still enjoy them all, each being cool to me. Cool to some people, isnt cool to others. But dont let that both you, just keep doing you!
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I think the difference is that motorcyclists are born that way. Very few are born with an innate compulsion to drive a car. We can appreciate nice cars the same way that most people do, maybe a little more being gear heads. If a car person doesn’t ride, or more importantly doesn’t HAVE TO RIDE, he/she will never be able to understand. This is also why some mid-life brand H owners can’t appreciate well-sorted classics of other brands. I’m guessing they wouldn’t understand the the beauty of a clean pan head either.
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I think the difference is that motorcyclists are born that way.
:thumb:
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A car guy wouldn't be at the car show in the first place if he wasn't trying to validate the glory of his individualism.
The car guy whose eyes glaze over when you refer to your bike or motorcycles, have too many dissonant factors popping up in their minds that aggravate their sense of inadequacy at the mention of motorcycling.
My inferiority:
" because my wife won't let me ride"
"I am not coordinated enough to survive in traffic"
"Motorcycles are too much work"
"Motorcycles reflect a dirty stigma I cannot abide by"
"Motorcycles do not radiate sufficient prestige to satisfy my ego"
"Motorcycles are the poor man's hot rod"
Motor cycles at a car show is like the guy trying to get into the yacht club with a home made dingy. You are jabbing the car guys' egos with a sharp stick just being there.
You have trumped them with your motorcycle, a coolness one-up over them in spite of their investment and work.
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Apparently we have several head shrinkers on WG :laugh:
Dusty
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Cool is a bike/car you built yourself......Every thing else is just a penis extender :grin:
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Cool is a bike/car you built yourself......Every thing else is just a penis extender :grin:
And if you bought it in a store it ain't custom. Building custom bikes in the 70's there weren't that many outfits that made custom parts. AEE, Paughco, Arlen Ness made some stuff. If you were going to build a really rad custom, you fabricated everything yourself. Bragging rights used to be how much you made yourself and how little money you spent. Bragging rights today is how much you spent on paying somebody to build your ride for you. Disclaimer, of course this doesn't apply to anyone here...
Larry
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And if you bought it in a store it ain't custom. Building custom bikes in the 70's there weren't that many outfits that made custom parts. AEE, Paughco, Arlen Ness made some stuff. If you were going to build a really rad custom, you fabricated everything yourself. Bragging rights used to be how much you made yourself and how little money you spent. Bragging rights today is how much you spent on paying somebody to build your ride for you. Disclaimer, of course this doesn't apply to anyone here...
Larry
In my opinion most old custom bikes were foul handling machines built for looks and not performance. A classic cafe racer was usually built with performance in mind...This is really an impossible thread,its all based on opinion...
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Cars are boring.