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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bobrebos on February 21, 2020, 11:52:56 AM

Title: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 21, 2020, 11:52:56 AM
2000 Kawasaki Vulcan nomad 1500 fuel injected. Has no spark at spark plugs when turning over. replaced pick-up coils, primary coils, tested kill switch, sidestand switch, and neutral switch...all good. No reading from the bike down switch so don't know if is good or not but it is being replaced to make sure. Still no spark at plugs. Could ECU be the problem or a loose wire? Bike was running for a minute or two (idling) in garage and just stalled. No spark at plugs since. Whats your guess??  Im getting stumped here :angry:
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Sasquatch Jim on February 21, 2020, 01:26:27 PM
 It is broke. Send it to see and I will dispose of it for free.
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Motormike on February 21, 2020, 04:51:09 PM
Does it have fuzes or breakers?  Something could be tripping to cause it to kill the spark? That's a four cylinder? So it's got to be something killing spark to the whole harness, like a short tripping a breaker or a blown fuze. 
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: nc43bsa on February 21, 2020, 04:59:18 PM
Have you checked the 100ohm resistor in the ignition switch?   

From what I found on the interwebz, it won't run without it.
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: oldbike54 on February 21, 2020, 05:08:13 PM
Does it have fuzes or breakers?  Something could be tripping to cause it to kill the spark? That's a four cylinder? So it's got to be something killing spark to the whole harness, like a short tripping a breaker or a blown fuze.

 Twin .

No snark intended , is there a Kawasaki Nomad forum ?

 Dusty
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 21, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
Twin .

No snark intended , is there a Kawasaki Nomad forum ?

 Dusty

I posted same question on a Vulcan 1500 forum.  I just thought I would try here too.  Sorry if I shouldn't of.  Have a nice day!
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 21, 2020, 05:16:01 PM
Have you checked the 100ohm resistor in the ignition switch?   

From what I found on the interwebz, it won't run without it.

All wiring behind ignition switch seemed all in order but I will try to find the 100ohm resistor also.  Thank You
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: oldbike54 on February 21, 2020, 05:24:27 PM
I posted same question on a Vulcan 1500 forum.  I just thought I would try here too.  Sorry if I shouldn't of.  Have a nice day!

 No problem with asking here Bob , was simply curious is there is a Vulcan forum .

 Dusty
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 21, 2020, 07:07:00 PM
Im about ready to push the old Kawasaki in the creek!   :evil:
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 22, 2020, 03:25:48 AM
Have you checked the 100ohm resistor in the ignition switch?   

From what I found on the interwebz, it won't run without it.

Im checking that resistor on ignition switch next.  From what I can tell if that goes bad it would cause the bike not to start (as being hotwired/anti-theft function) but would NOT cause the bike to stall if the bike was already running.

My scenario is the bike was idling fine in the garage and then just died, with no spark at plugs or fuel pump priming (Fuel Injected) after that.  Fuses all seem fine.  Something is causing it not to fire and I will continue this long trip to ?????   Its a friends bike and Im trying to help him out as he cant afford the dealership labor rates, and one of them told him they wouldn't work on it anyways because its too old (2000).  Oh boy...….
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: 80CX100 on February 22, 2020, 11:08:15 AM
Hey Bob, I feel for you, it sucks when a bike is throwing monkey wrenches at you, doubly so if you're working on a strange bike and aren't familiar with it or it's history.

     I'm not electrically inclined or familiar with that model, but I'll throw a few thoughts your way.

     Iirc, that model is known to be relatively reliable; unless previous owners have mucked up the stock wiring harness with sloppy add ons, ie, power ports, driving lights, alarms, heated grips & vests etc. I'd pop the seat & side covers off and raise the tank if possible and chase the wiring harness and verify the integrity of it.

     While you're doing that, you might find a second fuse box, short, loose connection or hidden ground that should be cleaned.

     Verify all connections and grounds with deoxit, and just for fun if the relays are compatible, I'd flip a few around to see if the symptoms change.

     Verify battery connections and condition, these modern machines are fussy on the voltage and power they get.

     I gave a boost to a stranded modern snowmobile this week, his machine & display lit up with the ignition on perfectly, but other than the perfect Christmas light show on his dash his machine was completely dead; I gave him a boost, it started and off he went, it just needed that little bit of extra voltage to get the EFI and ECU to work,fyi fwiw.

     Sending patience and thoughts your way

     Good luck

     Kelly
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Motormike on February 22, 2020, 01:11:26 PM
If the fuel pump isn't running, all the spark in the world won't help.  At least as you trouble shoot it, you can just listen for the pump to prime instead of fooling with holding a plug against the cyl. head.  Does the rest of the electrics work when you turn on the key? (horn, lights, turn signals, etc.) or is the whole system dead?
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 22, 2020, 03:33:01 PM
If the fuel pump isn't running, all the spark in the world won't help.  At least as you trouble shoot it, you can just listen for the pump to prime instead of fooling with holding a plug against the cyl. head.  Does the rest of the electrics work when you turn on the key? (horn, lights, turn signals, etc.) or is the whole system dead?

All other electrical systems/functions work as they should. 
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 22, 2020, 03:37:10 PM
Hey Bob, I feel for you, it sucks when a bike is throwing monkey wrenches at you, doubly so if you're working on a strange bike and aren't familiar with it or it's history.

     I'm not electrically inclined or familiar with that model, but I'll throw a few thoughts your way.

     Iirc, that model is known to be relatively reliable; unless previous owners have mucked up the stock wiring harness with sloppy add ons, ie, power ports, driving lights, alarms, heated grips & vests etc. I'd pop the seat & side covers off and raise the tank if possible and chase the wiring harness and verify the integrity of it.

     While you're doing that, you might find a second fuse box, short, loose connection or hidden ground that should be cleaned.

     Verify all connections and grounds with deoxit, and just for fun if the relays are compatible, I'd flip a few around to see if the symptoms change.

     Verify battery connections and condition, these modern machines are fussy on the voltage and power they get.

     I gave a boost to a stranded modern snowmobile this week, his machine & display lit up with the ignition on perfectly, but other than the perfect Christmas light show on his dash his machine was completely dead; I gave him a boost, it started and off he went, it just needed that little bit of extra voltage to get the EFI and ECU to work,fyi fwiw.

     Sending patience and thoughts your way

     Good luck

     Kelly

Thanks for the info and good luck wishing!  I’ll find the cause of the no spark no fuel pump issue sooner or later
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bodine99 on February 22, 2020, 04:41:16 PM
sparklers and fuel pump(after prime)need to signal the ECU to lite the engine Cam and or crank sensor. try wiffing some brake cleaner across the intake. that will show that if it fires it's fuel pump issue. you should hear the pump run/prime for 3 sec. on key on
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 22, 2020, 05:57:10 PM
sparklers and fuel pump(after prime)need to signal the ECU to lite the engine Cam and or crank sensor. try wiffing some brake cleaner across the intake. that will show that if it fires it's fuel pump issue. you should hear the pump run/prime for 3 sec. on key on

I ran 12 volts directly to the fuel pump to check it and the pump ran without an issue. Its like something electrical is shutting down the spark and fuel pump.  Im going to start checking every wire connection and grounds next.  Tedious job! 
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Two Checks on February 22, 2020, 11:42:33 PM
Does that model have the famous junction box, or, "j box"?
If so one of the relays inside may be stuck or  the circuit may he open. Rap on the box If so equipped. See what happens.
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 23, 2020, 03:20:09 AM
Does that model have the famous junction box, or, "j box"?
If so one of the relays inside may be stuck or  the circuit may he open. Rap on the box If so equipped. See what happens.

I don't believe this one has a "jbox" but in checking each and evey wire I will find out.  Time consuming here.  Lol.  Oh well, I gotta get this fixed for a friend so he can ride again so I gotta keep at it.....
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Ncdan on February 23, 2020, 08:34:47 AM
Bob, if you have a kal dealer it may be acceptable to just take it to folks who has probably seen this issue before and can ID and  fix the problem. Sometimes we just have to bite the bullet and let someone else take over.
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 23, 2020, 11:10:34 AM
Bob, if you have a kal dealer it may be acceptable to just take it to folks who has probably seen this issue before and can ID and  fix the problem. Sometimes we just have to bite the bullet and let someone else take over.

The local dealership and one other said they won work on the bike because it is more than 10 years old (2000).  Thats crazy isnt t?  So its me or nothing.  lol.   :drool:
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Ryan on February 23, 2020, 11:51:28 AM
You know there is no prime cycle for the fuel pump when you turn on the key. Assuming there is sufficient voltage to trigger the system, work backwards from there and check everything that signals the fuel pump or nixes the signal. What kind of switch signals the bike is down, and can you run a jumper around it? The side stand switch will only interfere if you are in gear- is the neutral indicator working? Is there a signal to the fuel pump relay when you turn the key on? Narrow the options, and  backtrack systematically.
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: John Croucher on February 23, 2020, 12:09:10 PM
When cranking over the engine, only do so for less than 5 seconds.  Turn off kill ignition, turn back on.  The ignition control module will go into limp mode after cranking more than 5 seconds.  Giving no spark. 
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Two Checks on February 23, 2020, 12:36:09 PM
Take it to an independent repair shop.
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 23, 2020, 01:04:32 PM
Take it to an independent repair shop.

We did take it to an independent shop.  They had it for three weeks and said they could not find the cause of the problem, after replacing pick-up coils, main coils, and checking downed bike switch, clutch switch, kickstand switch, kill switch.  Im going to start tracing each wire, trying to check ignition switch and in-line resistor, and keep checking best I can.  Thanks for all the ideas
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 23, 2020, 01:11:20 PM
You know there is no prime cycle for the fuel pump when you turn on the key. Assuming there is sufficient voltage to trigger the system, work backwards from there and check everything that signals the fuel pump or nixes the signal. What kind of switch signals the bike is down, and can you run a jumper around it? The side stand switch will only interfere if you are in gear- is the neutral indicator working? Is there a signal to the fuel pump relay when you turn the key on? Narrow the options, and  backtrack systematically.

Owner told me he always heard fuel pump cycle on when key was turned on.  Doesn't now and no spark at the plugs when turning over engine.

Bike down switch showed no readings at all, im still checking that issue.

Neutral indicator does work

fuel pump relay I will check again but pretty sure it was getting voltage and clicking when I checked it three months ago.  Cant remember so im checking everything again. Starting over from replacing battery as its voltage/ability to hold a charge is getting suspect with all the cranking that's been done over last few months by independent shops etc.  Thanks for ideas
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: oldbike54 on February 23, 2020, 01:37:33 PM
 Is there something like Kawasaki diag ? That's why I asked if there is a Vulcan forum , or ask over on ADV rider . If information about a specific motorbike is needed , going to where the experts on that bike hang out would seem to be a good plan , right ?

 Dusty
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 23, 2020, 02:57:51 PM
Is there something like Kawasaki diag ? That's why I asked if there is a Vulcan forum , or ask over on ADV rider . If information about a specific motorbike is needed , going to where the experts on that bike hang out would seem to be a good plan , right ?

 Dusty

Yes sir.  I am discussing with the Kawasaki forums too.  Thank You.  Bob
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Ncdan on February 23, 2020, 09:36:54 PM
The local dealership and one other said they won work on the bike because it is more than 10 years old (2000).  Thats crazy isnt t?  So its me or nothing.  lol.   :drool:
I wish you were close by me in central NC. My mechanic and good friend is a 43 year certified Honda mechanic but has worked on every brand through out all these years. When he worked at the last Honda business before retiring he did all the electrical trouble shooting in the shop because he was the most experienced and actually liked the challenge of electrical issues. I’ll give him a call and run by all I’ve read here about your problem and see if he has any thoughts.
To make sure I understand, there is no spark at the plugs and no power to the fuel pump, right???
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 24, 2020, 12:40:56 AM
I wish you were close by me in central NC. My mechanic and good friend is a 43 year certified Honda mechanic but has worked on every brand through out all these years. When he worked at the last Honda business before retiring he did all the electrical trouble shooting in the shop because he was the most experienced and actually liked the challenge of electrical issues. I’ll give him a call and run by all I’ve read here about your problem and see if he has any thoughts.
To make sure I understand, there is no spark at the plugs and no power to the fuel pump, right???

Yes Sir that is correct.  All other electrical components work fine.  All switches, (Kickstand, neutral, emergency shutoff, neutral, bike down switch) have been checked and work as designed)
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Ncdan on February 24, 2020, 01:07:50 PM
Yes Sir that is correct.  All other electrical components work fine.  All switches, (Kickstand, neutral, emergency shutoff, neutral, bike down switch) have been checked and work as designed)
👍
Give me a little time yo contact him and I’ll PM and give you my number.
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Ncdan on February 24, 2020, 01:17:34 PM
Check your pm for my phone number.
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Ncdan on February 24, 2020, 01:29:13 PM
Check your PM, I left my PH#
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 24, 2020, 03:35:22 PM
Check your PM, I left my PH#

Got it Dan.  I will call when decent weather day.  Bad cell reception on rainy days out here in the sticks/middle of nowhere! 
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: GeorgiaGuzzi on February 26, 2020, 04:58:22 PM
It’s been a few years, but have you checked the relay under the right hand side cover? I had the same issue with my 97 carbed 1500. It turns out it was a loose connection to that relay. I replaced the relay and then when it did it again I went back over all the connections to that relay and it behaved after that.
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 26, 2020, 05:34:36 PM
UPDATE:  This specific Kawasaki has an inline resistor on the ignition switch that lowers the voltage going to the ecu to 6-9 volts, from 12 volts.  Its an anti theft resistor where if you tried to hotwire the bike, the 12 volts would not allow the ecu to allow the bike to fire or the fuel pump to kick on.

Well this resistor was snapped off (Not connected).  I ordered some new 100ohm 1/2 watt resistors and will solder a new one in line on the ignition switch.  Resistors arrive Saturday.  Im hoping that's the fix.  I will post more after that task.

Ride safe out there.   :bike-037:
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Ncdan on February 26, 2020, 09:05:14 PM
UPDATE:  This specific Kawasaki has an inline resistor on the ignition switch that lowers the voltage going to the ecu to 6-9 volts, from 12 volts.  Its an anti theft resistor where if you tried to hotwire the bike, the 12 volts would not allow the ecu to allow the bike to fire or the fuel pump to kick on.

Well this resistor was snapped off (Not connected).  I ordered some new 100ohm 1/2 watt resistors and will solder a new one in line on the ignition switch.  Resistors arrive Saturday.  Im hoping that's the fix.  I will post more after that task.

Ride safe out there.   :bike-037:
Good work Sir, hats off to ya! Wish you lived near me;)
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 27, 2020, 01:22:56 AM
Good work Sir, hats off to ya! Wish you lived near me;)

The one thing I enjoy very much is working on motorcycles.  The challenge of figuring the systems out and troubleshooting problems is a joy to me.  Now a word of caution here....I have not soldered the new resistor in yet to find out if that's the main culprit or if there are other electronic gremlins going on here.  Anyways, here I sit at 0220hrs wide awake, thinking of schematics and wondering what other systems could of failed, caused by the snapped off resistor.

Oh well....there are worse hobbies to have I guess.  Thanks for the nice compliment of living closer, and ride safe out there!   :bike-037:
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Ncdan on February 27, 2020, 05:04:27 PM
Keep up posted as I’m curious to see if that’s the fix.
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 28, 2020, 04:52:12 PM
Keep up posted as I’m curious to see if that’s the fix.

Yep.  I received the resistors in the mail today.  soldered a new one in line on the anti-theft wire of the ignition switch and bingo.  She fired right up.  Fuel pump kicked in and bike runs well.  Now to change the oil, plugs, etc etc for my buddy and he can pick her up!  Woo Hoo!   :bike-037:
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 28, 2020, 04:54:03 PM
 :grin: Thanks for the update..
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: nc43bsa on February 28, 2020, 05:07:52 PM
Sometimes it really IS that simple.   :thumb:
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Ncdan on February 28, 2020, 05:22:59 PM
Endeavor to persevere..... good job! No doubt your findings will help someone with the same issue somewhere down the road👍
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: 80CX100 on February 28, 2020, 08:15:20 PM
Sweet!, gotta love it when a plan comes together, patience and perseverance prevails  :thumb:

Well done Sir  :bow:

Kelly
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on February 28, 2020, 09:55:42 PM
http://www.classiccycles.org/1852/597943.html
Theres an array of Kawasaki's on this site but not one 1500
Can you pick out the appropriate schematic and post it to the thread, there's too many for me to guess.
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on February 29, 2020, 02:16:09 PM
http://www.classiccycles.org/1852/597943.html
Theres an array of Kawasaki's on this site but not one 1500
Can you pick out the appropriate schematic and post it to the thread, there's too many for me to guess.

I don't have access to the wiring schematic other than in my service manual and I was told for security reasons (anti theft) the resistor is not shown in the wiring schematic and im looking at my hard copy and the resistor is not shown by the ignition switch on the diagram.  I have this though...

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=2000+kawasaki+1500+nomad+ignition+switch+wiring+showing+resistor&view=detail&mid=6B77D9DD93CB70960CCE6B77D9DD93CB70960CCE&FORM=VIRE
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on February 29, 2020, 03:36:26 PM
Is that why our Guzzi manuals are so bad, its an "anti theft device" lol
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on March 01, 2020, 03:59:36 PM
OK I fixed

* The no spark plug fire or fuel pump priming issue, (Replaced/soldered new resister and replaced some ignition switch wiring that was chafed)
*  Fixed re tapped broken off seat mounting bolts
*  Replaced battery
*  Changed Clutch reservoir fluid
*  Changed Brake fluid front and rear
*  Changed oil and filter
*  Changed rear end lube
*  Installed new spark plugs
*  aired up tires.
*****Replace blinker fluid (Of Course)

My buddy should be ready to ride.  Woo Hoo.  Now to work on my bike.  LOL!   :bike-037:
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: nc43bsa on March 01, 2020, 04:38:34 PM
Have you resolved the recurring rear tire leak?
Title: Re: NGC Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad still no spark???
Post by: bobrebos on March 01, 2020, 04:51:43 PM
Have you resolved the recurring rear tire leak?

It hasn't done it in a couple of months anymore at all.  I think my valve stem stuck open because it was stuck partially open once.  Im keeping an eye on it!