Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: inditx on March 03, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
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Ok so these pics are from an 03 EV.
Is it a dual plate or a single plate clutch?
I gotsta know! I am looking to buy it. It has had the rollerization and triple tree done.
Thanks!
inditx
(https://i.ibb.co/T4L31Rv/IMG-0441.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T4L31Rv)
(https://i.ibb.co/CBcwKbj/IMG-0442.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CBcwKbj)
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The first pic is a dual plate and the second a single.
(https://i.ibb.co/5Mv3P7G/EV-dual-cluch-flywheel.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5Mv3P7G) (https://i.ibb.co/PZ0XDj4/EV-single-cluch-flywheel.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PZ0XDj4)
Tom
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Am I missing something? The California EV 2003 is a standard 2 valve engine with a standard 2 plate clutch.
Rollerization????????
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Could be he's asking in case he thinks a RAM has been installed Rolf, possibly?
If that's the reason I'm afraid it's pretty hard to tell as the ring gear looks the same through that hole.
You might be able to identiify it by the gap next to the ring gear as the RAM has a shiny Al plate, the standard will just be black. The root of the ring teeth on the RAM also have a notch, but the standard doesn't but that would be difficult to see.
Possibly the best way would be to use a Remote Inspection tool to look inside. Funny because I'm in there are the moment on the Sporti to replace a mains seal, when I checked the RAM I became really nervous about the wear on the friction plate, very close to the rivets yet the bike has well under a 1k miles since the RAM went in. That's with clearance on the gearbox arm to pushrod and no abuse on the clutch either.
So I'm going back to the standard (heavy) 2 plater
RAM Clutch below
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Sy5D1i04P8Xb9TVBW2oAa6OmZKTCkmbwszWWmH7o7hfBGftPcufhudq5-LmEjMtQU5HJ4svfFxvCSwxTX6DiA_tq-7z-w_-EzicuMAYhS5VDRBI4lunpP2hwpWDYXtS5xO4ar523z-QGt18drg9z9hvbpQL5JUr8GS2dsw3hESaxYr2CaVJSjnjM-B0DfAGi79H2rP1E6Etz1qiqZOSHUFMDCYNPh4PvyUDDcUEzBBLTeK2QNMdMFJN3nHEPuLatQhyvwxj_72LkN4QDRucJRZLp707vABPfs_0NlQbSCFH-yVB6JiH_RelVenVfxug22HUF2WRm8AHE_lTv0KZAGzFgk1HcYJi34prw53-JLz6se0H5KpJzha2Dp7FNFYgoJCHXw1pu8Ny_qU5jINSIu1bjbxhJocF_ja1e2gGcYzXpqyIxoyT5NsPyEolwVGhmLDJfB4HlUjURGEsSBm86RUPeIvfuHNUZvCZN6PK1CV-FRvengJydPgAhEqVu68xqjeBbUp9vOpjl_yGGxGmJ3_KKwLsZQVGT-_4KSBl4M1LOEECqsBYjGPFipF8WDBersAyBh2BMJwfhwakH93qEofVBrYQDCaWZh_5dELI6kQjZSSvMwdwA4YbYz9H__2aQS9wEDjDFAHjXXc--kOy-1bwcNx34_uWV2jLOTGTJcc1XHbp2PIJh97n5eyXXeUgS3j4DXFThKGOW0itt-45i6ktbKZaBJM3N1aiMs1gkrXOOY0p1=w1475-h983-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zgeSlFHs9VYdnWkA0YNGWEutdVvgRgHuvtS-JLvxQCluBgVKb0RcHC6ebAtxv4SwGy-dUPOtXT6thTkOZzbUh1a7usA_hnkcyuN-54zEJUUplvX2HcEwg21uR8d6yrVIFn0wYvNJJiQ2RBi3oo5zEIzbATq_n8LQOnBVSYVLReMlg-2kolpVMC56Ir0Badt1t7nnfxNldxP0u6so130zxqzYXFd_AeNKIgZSX6BgEB3VhhoozqDn3RAiEJycuoWm9M7OwuDcPVO6Zt_Ycu0qIoGchq6Ugai4mec4EDwkc8foCK8fweh5JkH67-dhE6c59wFekZzsvhMNnXKfi449Ibm2n2Q5DGILCaiHGrndgUuDVB9Sk21hzLFBKC7j4TBsMvtCAfGzvLliuukRJlrIqchVYLiNu2ioM-fH9WbdI5aVqDfpYidnko949cxOBiBFbyCcZ26VhMoDVSqLCpA4jRmr60rAnlvR1VmuQHC6_PxpKtWl0a8i5X2FQ8BPeLLSPX4FLxCa4Tv0aHpReNoKveiQe4terUdyrfzQg7LM87_5DOG8S23f6TZfVX6E23egZe1wrY2wvl5DTxV5ig4TdxZ-xb5th1oZwp7nPX5XqZi_BIc4j2zEU4Q0MMPvvT_8R74eyjPrCToLCW1Vo4-cukl47JEa0cegeNgNHEyg1wPnxQQ7ix9tUWIw5h34h7xuEQk18tNYfCqw2uKXCYOk23gaHgcqjJQZfHKWEtn3OnWjqwd5=w1475-h983-no)
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Looks like a duel clutch to me from those pic's. I think your mixing up rollerization with the diferent cam/lifter recalls the hydro lifter motors had. They dont repalce with rollers.
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Looks like dual plate to me.
Rollerized doesn't apply. But updated valve springs and valve gear does.
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Ok so these pics are from an 03 EV.
Is it a dual plate or a single plate clutch?
I gotsta know! I am looking to buy it. It has had the rollerization and triple tree done.
Thanks!
inditx
(https://i.ibb.co/T4L31Rv/IMG-0441.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T4L31Rv)
(https://i.ibb.co/CBcwKbj/IMG-0442.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CBcwKbj)
Thanks fellas! I mixed up my terms on the “rollerization” term. PO says he has the parts from the cam/lifter recall and the triple tree as well.
It sounds like the consensus is that it’s a dual plate clutch, unless I’m missing something?
Appreciate y’all
inditx
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It would be interesting to know how many '03/'04 hydros are out there, now going on 15+ years, with the big three ailments:
Cracked triple trees. The factory did at least notify it's dealer chain and issue a recall. Never heard of a failure except in the Capt'n Kangaroo thread.
Bikes without the cam update: Those still pop up on here now and again and I'd guess there are some still in circulation with either an earlier fix or no fix. My bike made it over 35k before the recall and showed no signs of an issue,
Single plate clutches. From what I read 5k was about the life expectancy on one of those. Did anyone make it further on one (and not due to the ITI odometer crapping out :) )
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Am I missing something? The California EV 2003 is a standard 2 valve engine with a standard 2 plate clutch.
Some bikes during the '01/'02/'03 time frame were blessed with single-plate clutches. Various V11 Sport / LeMans, and Californias. They were not real durable and didn't last long. Replacement was with the "standard" dual-plate clutch and flywheel which has always worked well.
By now, most bikes which came with single-plate clutches, and which have been ridden more than a few thousand miles, have been equipped with the replacement dual-plate clutch.
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Could be he's asking in case he thinks a RAM has been installed Rolf, possibly?
What is/who makes a RAM? I'm thinking it's not Random Access Memory... :huh:
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Remarks concerning the RAM clutches ( apparently there's been numerous improved friction plates ) . My experiences ; brand new and less that 25 kilometers later
on my way to work I'd loosened off the cable 3 times until no free play adjustment was left . At work I backed off the adjustment on the transmission screw 1 full turn
and readjusted the clutch cable for for adequate free play . On the ride home the free play on the cable was completely used up by the time I was home . Not feeling
the love after around $600.00 to improve from the oem 2 plate . The next 400 kilometers were spent going through the complete adjustment routine every 2 days now.
Clutch worked okay , but when I pulled the timing plug out I new the end was near . I removed the trans , etc and took apart the clutch , the bell housing was covered in
thick black soot like material . I sent a pic to MG cycle and they agreed to split the cost of a new plate . Pretty well the same song and dance , just it was now taking 2 to 3
days to go through the adjustments . I took it out a few thousand kilometers later and threw it in the corner and replaced the OEM clutch with the new 4mm spline and plates .
Life was good . A year later I took the friction plate into a clutch shop in town ( one man show ) and he removed the old material , glued and riveted the new material on
and ground the plate down to 8mm thick . It now works great . The newest replacement plate is almost $250 , (mine cost half that and he apologized for the expense) .
If you should decide to buy a RAM clutch , just verify it has the newest plate , otherwise , stay clear ! Sorry for the rant , but it sure wasted too many summer days ! Peter
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I have an '04 EV1100 that has not had the cam recall done. I just sent an oil sample off to Blackstone for analysis. Has anyone else dome this? What results did you get?
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^you might post this on it's own thread , rather than in a clutch related one . Better chance of being addressed there . Peter
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RAM is a single plate clutch with a diaphragm spring, made by RAM Italia, different company from RAM USA (who also make clutches, just not for Guzzis)
Lots of different stories on how long the friction plate lasts, the mean is probably around 5-6k miles or a bit over, one or two have managed good mileages but they are very few.
There have been different opinions on which plates are the best, some say the new one but I've seen at least one comment that the new sintered material is worse than the older type for longevity.
Main reason for installing is lighter clutch pull and lighter flywheel giving the engine a more revvy feel.
On the flywheels RAM originally supplied an Aluminium flywheel but there were some failures and then went to steel (as I understand it)
I had one in the 1100 which is getting replaced and I have one in an LM1000 which has around 2k miles since install, with the old plate material and it's been fine (so far)
The 1100's plate looked very thin, almost down to the rivets yet the bike has probably done around 500 miles, cetainly less than 1k, since the install
As I don't want to go to all the hassle of tearing the whole bike apart again, I'll just put up with the heavier pull I guess.
Never really understood why the Guzzi has to have such a heavy clutch. Ducatis using a large number of smaller plates seem to be able to produce an acceptable pull and decent mileages with a dry clutch, some models transmitting significanty more horses through them.
It also sucks that you need to tear down so many number of parts to get in there, especially on the Spine frames (well mine anyway, its actually a Magni frame). The Tontis are a bit easier but even then it's still a pretty major strip
Nice and useful comments though by moto-uno interesting and thanks for the insight. Personally when the 1000 clutch goes if the mileage is under 10k I'm going back to the dual plate on that bike too. The dual plate is agricultural, but is over designed if anything and 50k before replacement is by no means uncommon.
Just my take on it, often, with Guzzis I seem to only learn the hard way.