Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: cliffrod on March 24, 2020, 09:30:25 AM
-
With many stores sold out of flour, that should mean some have adequate flour at home. This is a good time to do a bread thread. Nothing goes better with good food already being discussed here than good bread.
My background includes a traditional culinary apprenticeship supplemented by years of self-directed journeyman work across multiple states. This background benefited my work as Executive Chef in numerous operations as well as recruitment into multiple culinary education programs as developer and educator. As time passed, the kitchen schedule became less desirable to me than the studio schedule.
Dough is a favorite endeavor and one that I greatly enjoy sharing with others. One year was spent stretching and throwing pizzas in VT. Another was spent doing traditional hand stretched & kettled bagels in TN, averaging 1200lbs of dough a day- 100% of which I personally hand stretched into 4oz bagels. We added some bread products while I was there, but the oven ran too hot for much normal loaf work. My biggest single day production there was 2200lbs. By my dough-schedule records, I did at least 100 tons of dough at the bagel shop alone.
This thread will begin as a general dough lesson. If there's interest, it will likely develop more like a bike build thread over a longer period of time vs a typical single recipe thread. Discussing the actual chemistry and physical science of the processes with clear explanation of ingredients helps dispel misunderstanding and misconceptions. I'll cover a variety of basic doughs and related products. A simple lean, high-moisture-ratio yeast dough will serve as a baseline. I'm glad to answer questions along the way but will work to clarify the overall process so people can self-evaluate. Specific recipes vs specific equipment vs method vs individual baker make for complicated problems, especially when people try to reinvent the wheel. Be patient and stay on track until you've learned the basics. You'll like the results.
More soon.
-
My wife makes homemade bread from scratch. There’s nothing like waking into the house on a cold winter day after cutting wood all morning to the smell of fresh bread in the oven, the all wood pine interior and wood burning in the wood stove. The fresh perking coffee just adds to the wonderful experience:) just about makes me miss winter when it’s over, just about:)
-
I went to the local store, most bread was gone, all but what I eat. Potato bread, pretty tasty stuff.
-
Using a bread machine we make a semi-whole wheat bread with toasted almond bits and other goodies thrown in as the wife sees fit to make it multigrain. Yes, baking bread is one of those smells that just don't get better than that.
GliderJohn
-
Wish I could still enjoy bread, can't do the carbs.
-
Wow! A man of many and diverse skills! Impressive! :thumb:
Great timing - we've recently hooked up with a friend who makes bread from sourdough starter. We're gearing up with his help.
-
I'm looking forward to this thread, I love bread
-
Thanks guys. Glad there's some interest. My grandmother on the farm in VT made bread and it was always my favorite. Plain, loaf pan, nothing "special" but it was. If anyone deserves credit for inspiring me to bake bread, she's my hero.
To begin, the five basic principles of cooking with heat.
1. Fats melt.
2. Water evaporates.
3. Sugars caramelize.
4. Proteins coagulate.
5. Starches gelatinize.
1-5 are true of cooking process when heat is used. Some or all of these specific processes interact throughout the dough/bread process.
Two additional phenomena that I always add and promote, because these are very relevant. 7 is especially important with all things related to glutinous dough.
6. Salts equate in solution
7. Any fat is a shortening because it shortens gluten strands and tenderizes the product.
These basic principles cover so much in terms of cooking that they are hard to overemphasize. Know what you are cooking and these principles cover what is happening. If you apply these basics, much misunderstanding will be resolved.
####
Gluten-
Gluten is greatly misunderstood. As defined, gluten is an elastic network of structures formed when specific proteins are moistened with water and manipulated. In wheat, glutenin and gliadin are the specific proteins responsible for gluten potential. As a stand alone physical substance, "Gluten" does not exist any more than tangle exists in hair. It can be created, but that's it.
Claims of health allergies or sensitivity need to be clarified. Some individuals may have a physiological allergy to a given protein such as glutenin or gliadin. Others may have a physical sensitivity to glutinous structures caused by a medical condition, much like persons with diverticulitis have physical sensitivities to eating certain food whose partially-chewed granules will lodge in small pockets in the gastrointestinal tract. Claiming a product is gluten-free often means no more that claiming it is cholesterol-free (cholesterol is animal fat, nothing more nothing less). I've seen fresh fruit marketed as both gluten-free and cholesterol-free, which only means that specifc banana has neither added wheat or animal fat. Education is key.
In making bread, the presence of proteins needed for glutinous structures helps determine what is possible with a given dough. The more % protein present, the higher the gluten potential. Very strong flour, made from hard wheat, has protein levels ranging up to 14%-16% of volume. This makes a very elastic dough with long gluten structures. Weak flour, made from soft wheat, has less protein and thus lower gluten potential. Protein percentages in the single digits is common with (soft) Pastry flour. Vital Wheat Gluten is a concentration of wheat protein, so extraordinary gluten potential can be utilized by adding vwg to any flour on hand.
Alternate flours, like rye or almond, have little to no gluten potential. This is why making a dough with 100% alternate flour will make a dense brick with little to no leavening. Adding some (usually a majority portion) of regular wheat flour will produce a better loaf.
Whole wheat flour both contains bran, which interferes with glutinous structures and lowers by volume the percentage of protein. The example I use is being a kid with an old flavorless piece of bubblegum in your mouth. If you add a piece of new hard candy to your mouth and chew it up to sweeten the gum, the chunks of candy make it tough to blow a good bubble.
A few other terms common to the subject-
Bleaching of flour refers to oxidation, which visually lightens the color of the flour. This is typically done by controlled exposure of the milled flour to light- not with something like chlorine bleach.
Malted refers to the process of soaking wheat berries and allowing them to begin to germinate before use. During the process of germination, indigestible (to humans) structures are acted upon by naturally occurring enzymes which makes the structures more digestible. As a result, access to nutritional value in the malted seed, Berry or legume is enhanced. This isn't as common with flours, but more likely to be used for whole berries added to a dough.
It is common in many professional kitchens to keep only very high and very low known protein flours (like bagel flour and pastry flour) on hand. When a specifc recipe is done, amounts of these two flours are scaled together in a ratio to produce the proper protein percentage and thus gluten potential needed. Pizza dough made with pastry flour is fragile, difficult to stretch without failure and makes for a poor pizza, just like muffins made with high gluten flour are tough like Ellie Mae's biscuits..
Here in my kitchen, I keep AP flour, (usually) King Arthur Bread Flour and self rising flour (a unnecessary cheat in the eyes of some, but it's my kitchen). For my typical dough, I'll mix AP and bread flour as desired instead of using 100% bread flour.
-
I am too, I make bread too but not near often enough. It does take time. As an aside I watched Anton Brown on the food network doing pizza. It was a whole different method of making the dough. I make pizza a lot with my own dough but I have never been really happy with it. His method looked really good. Worth checking out but CliffRod I will also be looking forward to what you have for pizza dough.
kk
-
Sugars- simple to complex
Sugar, also called a carbohydrate, is common in nature as a form of stored energy. In simple form, it is readily digested by many organisms. In complex form, it may or may not be readily digestible. One common complex carbohydrate relevant to dough is cellulose. It acts as structure in plant cell walls. Since humans cannot digest cellulose, it is considered fiber.
#####
Yeast is a microscopic organism which is not clearly defined as flora or fauna. Yeast survives by metabolizing sugar within a specific temperature range and within a limited range of salinity. Too cold and Yeast goes dormant. This is called retarding. Too hot, above approx 117f and yeast is killed. Excessive salt in solution will also slow,or kill yeast altogether. When yeast metabolizes sugar, it produced CO2 and alcohol. The length of time given yeast to metabolize sugar has an impact upon dough characteristics. Given enough time, Yeast is capable of breaking down complex carbohydrates and metabolizing them. Simple sugars can be metabolized more quickly. The example I offer is a chef having either a cow (complex) or 2lbs of hamburger (simple) to use to prepare a meal.
There are several kinds of yeast.
Fresh or compressed yeast is live, hydrated yeast pressed into blocks. It should be very firm and soft but brittle. It fractures very well. Old fresh yeast is rubbery and doesn't break as easily. Using old fresh yeast is a crap shoot. It is recommended that fresh yeast be bloomed or soaked in water (without without a small amount of flour to check for bubbles/activity) and dissolved before adding to the the dough. If you plan to mix your dough very well, I've found blooming or hydrating is not as important as simply breaking it up very well.
Dried yeast, granulated yeast or other non-instant forms of dehydrated yeast - as sold in little envelopes or small jars in the supermarket- is recommended to be hydrated before use to ensure uniform distribution throughout the dough. Unless I have to, I never use these little packets. They are way overpriced and can be difficult to keep in quantities that I use.
Instant yeast- this is professional yeast. It is sold in dried granular form, usually in a 1lb vacuum packed brick. It is added directly to your dry ingredients as is. It is my preferred yeast for most things and the most economical way to buy yeast. I pack of 2- 1lb bags costs about $8-$10 at Costco or SAMs. As long as the date is good, vacuum not broken or opened yeast is stored in the fridge, two 1lb bags will last us a year.
One detail to remember is to make sure of the quantity specified by the recipe. Yeast is yeast. Dehydrated yeast obviously weighs much less than fresh yeast. Old yeast might work. It might not. If you want to check your yeast, warm water (warm on your hand, around 100f or just warmer than lukewarm) with a little flour and plain sugar will produce the quickest response. I couldn't tell you when the last time I did this was- I basically never do it.
#####
7. Any fat is a shortening because it shortens gluten strands and tenderizes a product
Along with gluten in general, this is a challenging concept to many. I worked for years to conceive a simple means to explain and demonstrate this principle. It works best in person, but hopefully will make sense here in text.
Long gluten strands interlock and tangle with each other, forming a complex network within a dough. A fat is a lipid, which is a long chain molecule that readily slides along neighboring lipid molecules. Any fat- whether plant based (which is cholesterol-free) or animal based (cholesterol)- added to a dough will interfere with the development of the glutinous network within a dough. The result is shorter gluten strands, which in turn are less effective in limiting the passage of gases through a dough.
To demonstrate this principle, I normally cut a handful of 2'-3' long pieces of string or heavy thread. I divide them into two groups.
One group will then be wadded and twisted together into a chaotic tangled mass. This represents a glutinous structure within dough made with no fat (called a lean dough). That tangled mass will hold some shape on its own and trap many things if passed through the mass. As a mass, It will be very strong. A dough like this will be very elastic, chewy and have a strong internal web or matrix structure.
The other group will be "shortened". A pair of scissors is used to clip the strands into many shorter pieces before the pieces are wadded and twisted together in the same manner as above. This represents a dough to which fat is added (an enriched dough), which shortens the gluten strands and tenderizes the product. The chaotic mass formed will not be as strong or provide as much structure. It will not maintain any significant shape in comparison to the un-shortened example. It will not be as effective as a trap to items. A dough like this will be more fragile and more tender to eat.
This is why it is important to understand that ANY fat is a shortening, in terms of dough production. Olive oil, butter, milk and any other fat added will limit gluten potential in a dough. If that's what you want, great. Otherwise, don't do it. For example, Many people make a pizza dough with olive oil and then have dissatisfaction with the results. That's because they want a strong gluten characteristic dough but are defeating that goal by shortening the dough without understanding what they are doing.
#####
Dough is leavened (raised or puffed up) by three specific actions. All have dependence upon the presence of the network of glutinous structures within the dough. The elastic network traps and slows the passage of gases through a dough.
1. Water evaporates.
As water changes state from liquid to gas and expands in volume, the expanding gas occupies more space. Since all dough is made with water, this action is always of the leavening process.
2. Yeast
As yeast metabolizes sugar, it creates co2 (respiration) and alcohol (waste byproduct). The CO2 is already in gaseous form. The nominal amount of alcohol will evaporate and provide minor leavening. The warmer the conditions, the more vigorously the activity of the yeast until it is killed by heat. If not killed by heat, salinity or retarded by cold temps, yeast activity can continue for extended lengths of time.
3. Acid-Base reaction
More common to quick breads (high ratio water fluid or semi-fluid batter instead of a determinant dough mass) with lower gluten potential, any acid-base reaction will produce a gas and a salt. This is not as powerful at leavening as basic evaporation or yeast and is limited by the amount of acid and base in solution. Imbalance will leave either acid or base in the product, which make cause off flavor. Excess acid-base actions can produce excess salt(s) in the product and cause an off flavor. Single acting baking powder has both dehydrated acid and base. When hydrated, the leaving action begins immediately. Double acting baking powder has an additional pair of acid-base components that require heat as a catalyst. This provide an initial leaven when mixed plus a second leaven when heated in the oven.
There may be recipes calling for both yeast and either baking powder or self-rising flour but these are redundant. Flavor and quality is usually best with either yeast or acid-base leavening, not both.
All three of these processes (including double-acting but not single-acting baking powder) occur at a more rapid rate as temperature increases in the oven. This is called oven spring, describing the quick increase in overall size of a dough during initial baking. Produced gases are being trapped by the glutinous network.
If allowed to remain undisturbed (including no physical movement, lowering of temperature), the starches or carbohydrates deformed by the leavened gluten structures will gelatinize as they cook. When this happens, the dough matrix will take a set and permanently hold its new shape. If the ungelatizined starches are disturbed, the leavening gases may pass through the gluten network in part or whole. This will allow the dough matrix to collapse, never to recover. This is what happens when you slam the door and the cake in the oven collapses. Very simple, but not usually understood.
Once the starches on the exterior gelatinize and become dehydrated, they act as sugars and caramelize. How brown your bread's crust is is a result of the process of caramelization.
More soon.
-
Man, You know your stuff, Cliffrod! I have enjoyed reading your information, it just makes me feel so dumb! I have already learned alot from you, and look forward to trying a simple pizza dough recipe, and may even try my hand at baking some bread. I messed around with a bread machine years ago, when they were in vogue,and never was able to produce anything decent, with it. I am looking forward to your instruction. :popcorn:
Thank you
Rick
-
Yep, we avoid carbs (except in beer) :grin: but we've been talking about baking some bread during this enforced staycation. Carry on, sir..
-
Thanks, guys. This is a very hands-on group so I hoped this would fit. To me, the kitchen is just another workbench with tools and materials. It's no different than working on my bike in the shop or on a stone in the studio.
I've been tweaking this as I've taught it for years. I've have been wanting to write an updated version down for a while. This is a good chance to do that. When I was learning, we scoffed at the culinary students. After learning the hard way while working for so many years, teaching in culinary programs connected a lot of dots for me.
Demystifying things helps a lot. Too many are told what to do but never how or why it works. Even if an instructor or chef knows the how, they often cannot communicate the why. The 7 things enumerated (plus acid, base & acid-base reactions, which have a wide range of function and application) should help many here. Do it the way I suggest or use the parts needed to know what is happening if you want to do it your way. Dough is very personal and very situational.
the majority of basics principles have been covered. Next will begin recipe work. I learned about this favorite recipe about a decade ago. It is a simple process that isn't supposed to work. It isn't "traditional" like how I learned, but it easily produces a dough with very good structure for specific uses. Having a successful experience- knowing how a dough should feel and perform- inspires confidence to do more complicated recipes. Nothing loses a budding baker faster than spending 36+ hrs on a batch of dough that fails.
First I need to finish a stone quote and then cook supper or my wife will not be smiling....
-
Great stuff. Keep it up. Waiting with bated breath for the next instalment. Used to do all my own breads for decades, so much so that that I still can't bring myself to pay the asking prices for the (mostly) inferior products on offer these days. Only restricted the exercise as I developed the habit of finishing off the first loaf before it cooled - irresistible and kept having to buy bigger trousers. Perhaps I now have adequate self discipline to get back into it. I wouldn't put any money on that, though.
-
Made some banana bread 2 nights ago while cooking dinner. My Mom and Grandma made banana bread for years, it's a family favorite.
Zucchini bread, banana bread, potato bread all wonderful fresh out of the oven!
Great thread...will have to study the guidelines above a bit further...thanks!
-
Bread making has always been The Man's Job in my family .... my dad used to bake bread even though he cooked nothing else, and I've baked every loaf of bread that's been baked at my house. I love doing it, but have been minimizing carbs lately, and fresh bread smells too good not to over-indulge!
My biggest problem is inconsistent flour quality (possibly among other problems). There's a local old grist mill on Staunton River (Cedar Forest Mills) that mills and sells flour locally, but I can't get it to make ANY kind of bread, not even quick baking-powder-and-soda biscuits or pancakes. I'd love to buy locally but not sure I can. Maybe I'll bake a loaf with Gold Medal and a loaf with Cedar Forest and take them over the mill and show them my problem ....
Lannis
-
Bread has several categories including Unleavened, leavened, lean rich/enriched, sourdough, Quick breads and more. Methods are varied as well. Some words and methods are analogous to each other. The only difference is the word used. There's also many recipes that claim to be applicable to multiple results. As with other things, such things come with serious trade-offs. As a professional, I don't find much use for such things. This recipe featured next is no exception. We will start with lean dough (no fat) leavened with yeast.
In late 2008, Mother Earth News featured a new book called Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day. https://artisanbreadinfive.com (https://artisanbreadinfive.com). The method uses a unique approach, to say the least. I was then teaching culinary part time around my full time studio schedule. I tried it, found the method worked and decided to apply it as a means to teach students about proper dough qualities and ease of preparation.
Most recipes require a time element that is challenging to schedule around a normal home life or non-dough kitchen. Initial development may include making a starter, poolish, biga or using a scrap from a prior dough. Hours later, the bulk of the dough is built. One or more services of the dough, including the ferment (first rise) and degassing (pinched down) can extend making one batch to 18 to 36 hours before dough can be made up (formally shaped into loaves), proofed (second rise) and baked as soon as proofing is achieved. Real life makes this tough for most regular people.
Artisan Bread uses a recipe and method that's very simple. I strongly encourage you to buy this book. A few bucks is a small price to pay for knowing this method. This is the recipe directly from the book-
3 cups lukewarm water
1 1/2 tablespoon granulated yeast (1 1/2 packets)
1 1/2 tablespoon kosher or other coarse salt
6 1/2 cups unsifted unbleached all purpose flour, measured with the scoop-and-sweep method.
The book has well-written instructions. After doing it for over a decade, I'll give you mine.
The flour is measured by the scoop and sweep method. Using another spoon or utensil, gently scoop flour and transfer into a proper measuring cup. Dry measuring cups have a flat/square top, allowing the contents to be scraped level for an accurate measurement. A Pyrex measuring cup with spout won't easily provide an accurate dry measure. Scooping the flour with the measuring cup compacts flour and will result in too much flour in your batch, sometimes as much as 1/2 cup for this 6 1/2 cup measurement. So scoop and sweep or your dough will not perform the same way.
I then add the measured yeast on one side of the flour and the salt on the other side. Coarse salt is important to use. Regular table salt is finer and thus more dense by volume. It will work but requires a different measurement. I then stir the dry ingredients.
I add the water while stirring the dry ingredients until everything is wet or hydrated. That's it. No kneading. No kidding. Try to get everything well incorporated and wet but some lumps aren't a problem. They will cook out. No kidding.
Set the container on the kitchen counter or table at room temp. Depending upon how warm the water and room are, it will take anywhere from 1-2 hrs to several hours to ferment to twice the original volume. Once it's approx doubled, degas the dough. No need to "punch it down". Just bump it on the countertop or gently stir it around the perimeter with a rubber spatula to let the trapped gasses vent from the dough. Now it is ready to use (see below) or it can be placed in the fridge for up to 2 wks and used as you like. No kidding.
When ready to use, remove the dough needed, make up (shape) as desired, allow to proof (increase in volume as desired) lame (relieve or slash) as needed and bake.
Here are a few details-
I have a dedicated container I use for my dough with straight sides and a square bottom that's about twice as big as my degassed dough mass or 3x bigger than my initial mix. It lives in the fridge and takes up the same space as a gallon of milk. I stir and mix my dough with a 16"-18" piece of an old wooden dowel (actually a rake handle).
by ratio, this is a high moisture dough. That makes it very soft and fast to work when new but allows the dough to remain viable for an extended period of time.
When first built, the dough can be used as the end of the ferment (first rise) without the retarding process. At that point, it's similar to using a traditional French baguette dough. It's a really fast, wet dough at this point. If you're good, you'll be fine. If not, have fun...
The book suggests using this dough for all manners of lean and rich dough applications. I strongly disagree. It works fine for basic loaves and suitable for basic pizza dough.
It makes a good gluten window (excellent lesson for other doughs), especially after retarding.
It provides the proper "feel" that any dough/bread baker need to understand. Good dough is very sticky to handle but will break clean. Touch the dough quickly and pull away quickly. Your fingers should be mostly clean of dough. Touch the same dough slowly and pull away slowly. The dough will stick firmly to your fingers and make a mess. Often a dough will be too wet (always sticky) or too dry (never sticky)
In fall 2013, I let a batch of dough linger in the fridge for well past the recommended 10 days. It started to separate water from solid, changed color and looked, smelled & tasted like a sourdough starter. So I used some of it as a poolish or scrap for the next batch. It provided added sourdough flavor. More importantly, it extended the life of baked product before it began to mold. Old dough doesn't leaven as well, but flavor is great. It's a great way to make rustic flavorful sourdough bread or bread for breadcrumbs & croutons. I've perpetuated that sourdough scrap to,this day. I never completely empty the container. Keeping all utensils and my hands clean before handling any dough is very important but we've had no problems. I leave a scrap,let it sour if it hasn't, add extra water to make a slurry before mixing the next batch and then make up the dough as regular. All I do is compensate amounts vs the amount left in the container. At this point, I maintain general ratios but measure informally. Salt and yeast are measured in my hand. Flour is gently scooped and water is added as needed.
####
Time to bake and probably answer some questions.
-
Making bread ( and pizza dough's for almost 40 years ) and here I am reading and thoroughly enjoying this article :thumb: . Peter
-
Bread making has always been The Man's Job in my family .... my dad used to bake bread even though he cooked nothing else, and I've baked every loaf of bread that's been baked at my house. I love doing it, but have been minimizing carbs lately, and fresh bread smells too good not to over-indulge!
My biggest problem is inconsistent flour quality (possibly among other problems). There's a local old grist mill on Staunton River (Cedar Forest Mills) that mills and sells flour locally, but I can't get it to make ANY kind of bread, not even quick baking-powder-and-soda biscuits or pancakes. I'd love to buy locally but not sure I can. Maybe I'll bake a loaf with Gold Medal and a loaf with Cedar Forest and take them over the mill and show them my problem ....
Lannis
quick guesses would be the inconsistency of wheat as mentioned- winter wheat tends to be hard or high protein and summer wheat tends to be soft or low protein. If they don't have dedicated sources of known wheat, there's no telling what will happen.
Excess milling temperatures can damage the proteins and the carbohydrates in the flour. The flour is then essentially pre-cooked and will never perform well. Most important, Gluten structures cannot form because the proteins responsible for gluten formation may already be coagulated/cooked in whole or part. Protein begins to coagulate around 144f and small bits need little heat to cook. Any Coagulated proteins may also be ground by further milling up after this happens. No good.
High moisture content can also be a problem, raising temps of stored flour much like putting up hay too wet can cause enough heat for spontaneous combustion. The milled flour decomposes, which limits future potential.
One of the most common problems with artisan flour like this is that is is a whole wheat flour. It has not been hulled or decorticated, so the bran shell is ground up with the rest of the berry. Even if it is white, whole wheat flour needs a supplement of regular flour or there will be little gluten potential. Whole wheat flour also hydrates very differently than regular flour.
-
Extremely interesting information Clifford. I was a line cook for years but learned early on that bakers are a completely different breed.
-
I too use a bread machine but today it was doughnuts.
(https://i.ibb.co/C898rTY/nuts.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C898rTY)
-
Forming (make up) and baking bread is flexible in some ways and inflexible in others. It's kind of like welding or learning to ride. No book and no one can do it for you. You just have to do it yourself. So relax and have fun.
For my family of three, I make my dough in a larger batch. Approx 9 cups flour (5 cups bread, 4 cups AP), 2 heavy T yeast, 2 light T kosher salt and water as needed) makes about two large medium thick crust pizzas and one loaf of bread with a small scrap left over. We usually make two pizzas at the same time once a week. Very informal.
People new to making up loaves like baguettes or boules may want to begin by using a simple loaf pan. Crust will be diferent and bread very moist, but it's still great bread. Or you can just roughly shape a roundish looking loaf, place it on a sheet pan and fire it like that.
I clean and dry the counter or table to work the dough. Trying to stay on a small board is a huge pain. use plain cornmeal to help keep dough from sticking to the counter while making up a loaf or pizza crust. You can buy fancy coarse cornmeal, grits, masa or whatever. Ground up dried corn is ground up dried corn.... The more coarse it is, the more slowly it hydrates. It will stick to the wet dough, but not transfer moisture to make it stick to the counter or table. I'm cheap, so we usually just have plain cornmeal.
A bench knife or scraper isn't essential, but it helps a lot.
Any very sharp knife will lame, relieve or slash the proofed dough. I've had dedicated razors but have used a plain razor sharp carbon steel opinel folding knife for years.
There's two things about making up a form that are important
1. The more a dough is worked, the more elastic the gluten becomes. At this point, the dough will spring back when stretched. Time to stop for a minute or few and let the dough rest. When the gluten structures have relaxed, the dough will once agin be easily stretched. Proceed and repeat as needed.
2. It's important to not tear the dough. Tearing the dough defeats the gluten structure. The exterior of the dough should be slowly stretched without tearing to form a gluten cloak. If the gluten cloak tears, the interior dough will bulge through the tear like a hernia as the bakes. Not cool. If the interior tears, the gluten structures cannot trap leavening gases and the dough will not proof or bake properly, not cool.
Work quickly and confidently but Be gentle. Don't tear the dough.
There are a wide variety of washes or methods to develop a specific kind of crust. An egg wash will make a shiny crust. A boiled wash (like bagels) both excites the yeast and creates a wet starch surface which also,produces a shiny surface. A simple spray of water makes a more dull crust. Steam introduced into,the oven makes the most dull crust of washes,,but creates a more definitive crust than no wash at all. I have a small cast iron skillet in. The bottom of my oven. When i put the bread into the hot oven, I toss 2-3 ice cubes into this pan. And quickly close the door. Simple and easy instant steam. The idea is to provide a wet crust that will quickly caramelize.
Stones or tiles that are hot and in the oven work properly. A cold stone is a waste of time because it won't quickly produce a bottom crust. The dough will stick like crazy unless it's peeled onto a hot stone. It's fun but messy to shovel/slip dough from a cornmeal covered peel onto the hot stone in a regular oven.
Now I usually use a sheet pan with/without a silicone mat that's broadcast with cornmeal. Place made up dough on here to proof,,then relive and fire when ready. I have perforated pimple pans, but rarely use them. I have traditional willow bratforms (sp?) that I like a lot when making round loaves. Lots of options.
For a baguette, the oven is usually set around 375 convection or 425 conventional. Pizza is slightly hotter, usually around 380-385 connection. I cook pizza on carbon steel pizza pans. I like them best.
No matter what I use, I never cut bread or pizza on the cooking pan. It's a waste of the pan.
###
To make up a loaf, l broadcast some cornmeal on the counter. A portion of dough is divided. Whether I want a long loaf or a round loaf! I will carefully stretch and press the loaf into shape- both without tearing the gluten cloak and while pressing any seam(s) firmly together so it will not unfurl during baking. Some use the heel of their hand. Some use the side of their hand. I learned to develop the dough into a roughly even rectangular form, then tightly roll it into a cylinder while developing the gluten cloak as I proceeded. Then I firmly seam the dough before placing the seam on the bottom. The dough doesn't know or care. Don't worry about perfect form yet. Just don't tear it and seam it well.
I place the made up dough on a pan and set aside to proof. This is more critical than the initial ferment. When fermenting this recipe, I just make sure it has at least doubled. Beyond that, it's ok. Proofing is different. Once the made up dough does not vigorously spring back when pressed, it is time to slash or relieve it.
Relieving or slashing the dough allows it to expand as it bakes. This is important to avoid a rupture as the gluten cloak hardens and is susceptible to cracking, especially during oven spring. When slashing a loaf, overlapping the slashes allows for greater expansion. If a dough is slashed before it proofs, the slashes will have dull edges and a flattened appearance when baked. If a dough is slashed after it proofs, the cooked slashes will be much more distinct in character. I like the latter, but it make no difference other than cosmetic.
I place the proofed, relieved loaf or loaves in the oven without jostling them (which may deflate them), toss in a couple of ice cubes and close the door. Loaves may take 45 min to bake. I don't really time things anymore. When it's done, I take it out. You'll learn if you do it enough, but a timer is a fine as a reference point.
Just understand that if a loaf is removed from the oven when it looks perfect, it is NOT done. Moisture remaining in the loaf will continue to steam to escape through this beautiful crust. In the process, it will both soften and lighten the crust. The loaf will be soft,maybe even limp. If that's your goal, that's how to achieve it.
Properly cooked, a baguette, batard, or boules will take on a slightly ashen color and look a little darker than desired. Time to pull the loaf from the oven. The residual steam I mentioned will now slightly soften that hard crust and lighten the color. More importantly, the loaf will begin to snap, crackle and sing as the steam acts upon this perfect crust. That is success. Btw, an egg washed crust will not sing. It makes a shinier and more elastic/tough surface, but it won't sing. I want my bread to sing.
I could be anal, scale all my ingredients and dough divisions, make up perfectly even loaves and time a bake exactly in a perfect temp oven to do this every time, but I don't. Singing bread is a wonderful goal to pursue. I can usually do it. Yeast dough is alive and varies with so many daily specifics. Get to know your dough and your equipment. Practice and practice. It's not too hard to do it. Just try it.
####
Pizza crust-
Same dough. Nothing special.
My wife uses a rolling pin to go pizza dough. I don't. Either is fine. She rolls and stretches on the counter. When the dough is fresh and not shaggy from going sour, I usually throw the dough. soured dough will be more fragile.
Cornmeal is broadcast (not sprinkled) evenly on counter and pan. Stretch the dough to shape, allowing dough to rest as needed to avoid tearing. Working in a radiating pattern from center helps, too. I will usually finish the dough into shape by gravity (hanging dough over a closed fist) and/or by throwing. Throwing is fun but sprays loose cornmeal around the kitchen....
Focaccia or flatbread or crazy bread is similarly stretched to desired shape. It is then docked with fingertips. The goal is to laminate to top gluten cloak to,the bottom gluten cloak without perforating the dough with your fingertips. This limits leavening to help keep the dough flat. A made up pizza dough can be docked, but usually is not necessary. Having sauce, cheese and ?? on top lowers the rate of cooking so,steam leavening of the dough is less of a problem.
Depending upon your pan and the amount of cornmeal used, your pizza will stick very little or not at all. Keep adjusting your method.
###
This specific dough works well for me for simple crusty loaves and basic pizza dough. It's a great way for new people to become acquainted with a very accommodating dough. After working with it, more complicated doughs are usually within reach. Modifying this dough to pretend it's a diferent dough is not worth the effort IMHO. Learn this to,become familiar with a good basic dough, then make the real thing forthe next one.
Let me know what does and doesn't make sense. I'll try to answer and guide you through the steps if you decide to try any of this. Beyond that, I glad to discuss laminated dough (puff pastry and croissants) unleavened dough for pasta/noodles & flatbreads like pita, lavash and tortilla, southern biscuits and other things if anyone likes.
-
This is great! cliffrod. All the straight facts without bs.
-
Once you ween yourself off of carbs and sugar you rarely think about it. Just a handle for a sandwich :wink:
-
I like it. My wife is the bread queen and she has been exercising her skills lately. Way better than store bought, though it doesn't last as long (that's a good thing).
One slight correction, Cliffrod- yeast aren't respiring- that implies using oxygen for metabolism. They are fermenting- using sugars without oxygen, then replenishing the metabolic intermediates by converting pyruvate into ethanol and CO2. Humans do something along these lines, but we make lactic acid instead of ethanol. The advantage there is that we (humans) can convert lactate back into pyruvate when we catch our breath...and then use the pyruvate for some serious energy production in the citric acid cycle.
Cheers- this is a fun thread-
-
I like it. My wife is the bread queen and she has been exercising her skills lately. Way better than store bought, though it doesn't last as long (that's a good thing).
One slight correction, Cliffrod- yeast aren't respiring- that implies using oxygen for metabolism. They are fermenting- using sugars without oxygen, then replenishing the metabolic intermediates by converting pyruvate into ethanol and CO2. Humans do something along these lines, but we make lactic acid instead of ethanol. The advantage there is that we (humans) can convert lactate back into pyruvate when we catch our breath...and then use the pyruvate for some serious energy production in the citric acid cycle.
Cheers- this is a fun thread-
You are correct. I usually use the term metabolize, but went off track. I'll go back and edit so content will be more accurate.
The term "Fermenting" always seems to lead some to the alcohol tangent, getting drunk, etc. focusing upon the alcohol or flora-fauna details get things off track quickly.
It should also be added that yeast keeps performing until the level of ethanol becomes toxic- typically not as common in dough but technically possible. It's much like explaining the alcohol provides some nominal leavening. Technically it does, but is minor. Students that don't drink are often worried about the alcohol, don't want their kids getting drunk from their bread, are you sure it "goes away", etc. Combined with excess heat and excess salt, this is the third condition that ends the life cycle of yeast.
Thank you to those interested. This subject is a lot to organize and process. I strive to put it all out there within a basic process and then move into discussion.
I had a hard time believing this no knead, high moisture dough would be any more "real" than the typical ziploc bag Amish friendship bread that sits on the kitchen counter for days. That's more of a quick bread method. Proper dough- from a Fresca dough (flour and water, salt or not) to a rich yeast dough (like brioche) needed traditional kneading to evenly incorporate all flour and develop a consistent gluten structure. Nothing else would work. Ive done little with home/consumer bread machines, just as a personal preference for more professional methods.
With traditional kneaded dough, Gluten structure will be checked by making a gluten window. A small portion, like 1" diameter ball, is removed from the dough. It's shaped between fingers/hands like a small pizza dough and progressively thinned until failure. When gluten is good, it will thin consistently and evenly, moving past transparency until it fails. It's like a mini version of the phyllo dough process. The gluten window is held up to a light source to evaluate. Lumps mean unincorporated or inadequately mixed flour. Long streaks of uneven thickness mean inadequately developed gluten. A break or shear with a square edge means dough is too cold, too dry or both. Gluten Windows work best with clear dough, as any lumpy solid ingredients compromise the process. No matter, this is a quick way to evaluate a batch.
So I made a batch of the no knead dough and was surprised to find the dough did come together amazingly well without a traditional knead. An ok gluten window could be formed when new, but was fragile like any high moisture ratio dough. After retarded, the gluten window is much improved- both in terms of mix/incorporation and gluten structure. The dough progressively changes from great when fresh to more poor (in terms of gluten) as it ages, but that's typical with any long ferment that increases acid percentage in the dough. When it baked well, I decided it was a new tool for me. While large lumps of raw flour may survive the baking process, Small lumps do actually disappear during the bake.
Knowing how a proper lean dough should feel is why this dough is a good tool. Some are legalistic about how long a dough must be kneaded. Many people don't or can't do that. If they are going to knead, they must understand how to evaluate the dough with something like a gluten window. This artisan bread in 5 provides that instruction, plus gives flexibility so a dough doesn't have to be made up, proofed and fired at 11:00pm because it's ready and you hadn't thought backwards in terms of production schedule. I like having dough available to use when I feel like it.
-
Cliffrod, Tks so much for taking the time to share your expertise, this is an amazing thread.
I'm a good cook, purely by instinct; but I've only dabbled in baking a few times. I learned early on that baking and doughs were a much more exact, somewhat unforgiving science, your post and information confirms it.
Like many others, I gave up whites (flour,sugars,salt,starches) years ago and am not set up for or inclined to delve into baking bread, but I recently weakened and bought some flour and baking powder so I could satisfy a longing for savory/spiced dumplings. :evil:
I make my dumplings by feel, guided primarily by the ingredients I have on hand, each batch is a little different, as you can well imagine with your obvious knowledge of the science and chemistry involved.
A part of me, would almost like to take my dumplings up a level in quality and consistency, with a more standardized recipe and method; I get the impression you're the guy that possesses the knowledge and skill that could possibly make that happen,lol. :bow:
Bread making is a wide and varied topic, I'm sure that the lucky baker guys here, could keep you going forever, lapping up your guidance and popping crusty loaves out onto the counter, I wish I could join you all in baking and breaking bread, but it's not in my cards.
If you get to a point, that all the bread makers thirst for knowledge is satiated, and you have time and inclination to pass on a little guidance and wisdom on a good basic dumpling recipe and method, I would be forever indebted.
Following with great interest and respect
Tks
Kelly
-
Cliffrod, Tks so much for taking the time to share your expertise, this is an amazing thread.
I'm a good cook, purely by instinct; but I've only dabbled in baking a few times. I learned early on that baking and doughs were a much more exact, somewhat unforgiving science, your post and information confirms it.
Like many others, I gave up whites (flour,sugars,salt,starches) years ago and am not set up for or inclined to delve into baking bread, but I recently weakened and bought some flour and baking powder to I could satisfy a longing for savory/spiced dumplings. :evil:
I make my dumplings by feel, guided primarily by the ingredients I have on hand, each batch is a little different, as you can well imagine with your obvious knowledge of the science and chemistry involved.
A part of me, would almost like to take my dumplings up a level in quality and consistency, with a more standardized recipe and method; I get the impression you're the guy that possesses the knowledge and skill that could possibly make that happen,lol. :bow:
Bread making is a wide and varied topic, I'm sure that the lucky baker guys here, could keep you going forever, lapping up your guidance and popping crusty loaves out onto the counter, I wish I could join you all in baking and breaking bread, but it's not my cards.
If you get to a point, that all the bread makers thirst for knowledge is satiated, and you have time and inclination to pass on a little guidance and wisdom on a good basic dumpling recipe and method, I would be forever indebted.
Following with great interest and respect
Tks
Kelly
I realize this is more of a Jack Kerouac stream of consciousness ramble than an organized lesson. But writing all of this on a long roll of paper instead of here would seem decadent at the present time.. Dough is different than typical pastry bake shop work. It allows more freedom.
Biscuits and how I do dumplings are coming. My culinary apprenticeship was done at a private city club. Long story short, I was hired to be the white guy in an older Southern kitchen. Among other tasks, I tried biscuits and failed gallantly every time. The older black ladies in the kitchen never let such things pass without fanfare and abuse. Over the years, I worked hard to become fluent with biscuits and usually make them for breakfast about once a week. Dumplings are more of a monthly thing, based upon weather comditions that best compliment the comfort food experience.
It's always good to shorten that path for others. Having already written the majority of theory and basic protocol into the thread, future additions can hopefully be more concise.
-
Wow cliffrod
I've been to school today !!!
Still don't think I could bake bread but my pancakes will be better now that I know what the oil in the batter is for and know to let the batter sit for a while and rise a little.
So is it going to help glucose intolerant folks if they just chew their food better ? :undecided:
-
If you get to a point, that all the bread makers thirst for knowledge is satiated, and you have time and inclination to pass on a little guidance and wisdom on a good basic dumpling recipe and method, I would be forever indebted.
Because Kelly asked, biscuits and dumplings are next. In the USA kitchen, Biscuits and dumplings are a product of the same heavily shortened dough. Difference in cooking method separates them. Within the USA, more differences exist in recipes and production methods. Below is what I normally do.
A quick note about my flour storage. In a commercial kitchen, baking powder is often ordered in 10lb tins. If not rusted or damaged, they make excellent containers for storing a full 5lb bag of flour for home use. No bugs. Smaller 5 lb tins are also common, but they won't hold a full bag of flour. Empty Fleischmans or similar 10lb tins cost about $10-$15 used on eBay and elsewhere. All but one of mine came from my various kitchens. I've glued labels from the appropriate flour bags to each for easy identification, with a measuring cup in each and a paint key hanging on the shelf to open the lid. The SR flour also has a spoon for scooping flour and the two biscuit cutters I use most. It works great for me..
(https://i.ibb.co/xGqNfWC/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xGqNfWC)
The ingredients-
Leavening. Leavening is usually achieved by acid-base reaction (most often, baking powder) and steam. Because acid base leavening is limited by the amount of acid and base present, different considerations are necessary. Within proper conditions, a single living yeast organism continues to metabolize present sugar and produce leavening gas. By contrast, once an individual acid-base reaction (as with baking powder) occurs, it is finished. That reaction creates a finite amount of gas to leaven. Adding excess acid-base to the dough produces excess salt byproduct, which is undesireable. Yeast is a leavening powerhouse. Baking powder, not so much.
Flour. Because yeast is atypical in biscuits, using flour with moderate gluten potential is beneficial to compensate for the weaker leavening characteristics of baking powder. AP flour works well. Self Rising flour is AP flour, sometimes with a protein percentage at the lower range of typical AP flour, premixed with double acting baking powder. You surrender a little control when using SR flour, but it may not be an issue. The bigger concern is to use SR flour quickly enough that it does not absorb ambient moisture, which initiates the first acid-base reaction and limits future leavening potential. You can mix your own SR flour by adding baking powder to AP flour. Protein percentage can be reduced by adding the proper amount of low protein pastry flour. If you do, use an accurate scale to scale all measurements when possible. Too little baking powder will limit performance. Too much tastes bad. I'm lazy, so I just use SR flour.
Fat. Since any fat is a shortening because it shortens gluten strands and tenderizes the product, adding fat to the dough further enhances the leavening of biscuit dough. Traditional recipes use a fat that is solid. A solid fat can be cut into flour and remain solid, even if in smaller pieces. In this manner, both flour and Fat retain some amount of autonomy. Remember- when cooked with heat, fats melt, starches gelatinize and sugars caramelize. A fat that is soft or liquid will interact differently. It will more readily surround and/or saturate each individual granule of milled wheat (or sugar, if used) and must be melted away before the captured granule can be individually cooked. Rendered lard, manufactured shortening, butter and other solid fats are common in biscuits. Some have added benefit over others. Butter is approx 70% fat, 20%-25% water and the balance are solids. Margarine is usually slightly more water, so it is more spreadable. Thus, using butter or margarine added water to the dough. If captured within chilled fat solids, it provides excellent additional leavening potential.
The key is to not melt the solid fat while working the dough. I prefer to use chilled fat for an extra margin of safety so the cut fat will remain solid until it is in the oven. The goal is to make a lot of small pieces of fat that are coated in flour, not to cover each flour granule in the dough with fat.
Liquid. Buttermilk is common and my preferred liquid. It isn't necessary but it works very well. A variety of liquids can be used, from water acidulated with vinegar or lemon juice to fresh or flat beer. Unless using baking SODA as a single stage leavening agent, the acid content of the liquid is not critical for baking powder. Baking powder is formulated with dehydrated acid in proper ratio to the base in formula. Once hydrated, the acid-base reactions occurs completely as long as enough water is present in solution.
Another reason buttermilk is used is often overlooked. As long as it is not fat free, it to adds fat to the dough. This further shortens the dough to benefit the leavening. This is good....
Utensils. For cutting the fat into the flour, a bent wire or bladed pastry cutter, a whisk (choke the wires with hand and used in a vertical mashing motion) a fork or whatever you prefer can be used. I use a square grid potato masher, because when I was practicing most was after wife #2 left and that's what I had. Other times, I prefer my whisk or even a table fork over a floppy pastry cutter. Using a proper biscuit cutter that cuts the sides of the biscuit helps with oven spring. Using a glass or dull cutter both crimps the sides, top to bottom, and can compress the dough with air pressure. A smooth sided biscuit cutter is my preference. when needed, a knife works fine.
Recipes vary. I spent my time working to master the biscuit recipe on a bag of White Lily flour.
2 cups SR flour, sifted
1/4 cup shortening or butter
2/3 - 3/4 cup milk or buttermilk
(https://i.ibb.co/cD4tZQB/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cD4tZQB)
Because we keep it on hand, I normally use SmartChoice margarine as my fat. It is not as hard as butter and cuts quickly into flour, which limits melting.
Follow,the directions on the label and consider what I do.
I scoop flour into my measuring cup, usually 2 cups. Dump this into the mixing bowl and then scoop approx 1/3 cup back out with the measuring cup. Then I will add approx 1/3-1/2 cup margarine to,the bowl. I will quickly cut this into the flour. The goal is to reduce all fat solids to pieces the size of a pea or smaller. Lots of little flour-covered pieces of fat. Then I'll add buttermilk while stirring with a table fork to wet all ingredients, but not enough buttermilk to leave wet liquid buttermilk in the bowl. The bowl will be slightly wet and sticky ,but will all be incorporated.
Quantities are important in a recipe. For something as informal as biscuit dough, ratios are more relevant than accurately measured or perfectly scaled quantities..
I withheld a little flour. This flour will be broadcast onto the cutting board for kneading. When I'm done, it will all be incorporated into the dough. No more. No less. If more flour is added, ratios will be off.
I added a little extra margarine beyond the recommended 1/4 cup. Given known percentages of present fat, 1/4 cup of shortening or lard is 100% fat. 1/4 cup of butter is only 70% fat. Margarine has even less fat. So I add a little extra margarine and just enough buttermilk to wet all ingredients present. Then I work the reserved flour into the dough on the board to mitigate the wet dough. If I only added 1/4 cup margarine, there would not be enough fat in the dough to achieve the desired ratios..
This last step with raw flour does one more thing. Since this flour has not been cut with the fat, it has greater gluten potential. Biscuits are meant to be soft and tender, but can suffer from being too tender. Try to make a sandwich with one and it falls apart with the first bite- that isn't good. Working this extra flour into the dough with a few turns sees to help develop some gluten that helps the biscuits work better for such sandwiches. Problem solved.
Kneading biscuit dough is often the problem. The more you knead, the more the gluten structure is developed. Then it can't be leavened and they come out of the oven as hockey pucks. Not cool. You only need to turn the dough back upon & into itself a few times- like the 2-4 times listed on the label. The dough will be delicate and fragile to handle. That's fine. Time to stop and cut the biscuits..
I press the dough to desired thickness and cut biscuits as desired. I dip my clean cutter into flour before each cut. If it gets dirty with dough, I clean it with a dry towel before proceeding. This recipe will make 6-8 large biscuit from 3/4"-1" thick dough, with the last two being made up from the scraps GENTLY kneaded back together. One is cut. The last one is just formed by hand. My cutter isn't as big as I want, so I will gently press the biscuits thinner to make them larger in diameter. Then I dust them with some flour (cosmetic) and place them into a 500F oven until they're done.
the hot oven is important, it produces the fastest and most powerful leavening action. I want this chilled fat with incorporated water to transition to steam quickly, not melt slowly. It needs to be at full temp and ready so the biscuits can be fired immediately when made up. Waiting on the oven defeats leavening.
When finished baking, I remove and place a small curl of margarine or butter on top of each biscuits. This benefits mouthfeel and flavor, which is obvious. Functionally, the thin layer of added fat significantly limits evaporation of moisture within the cooked biscuit both as it cools and afterwards. This significantly extends the usable life of the product. Without that protective layer, biscuits quickly dry out and turn into junk.
####
Dumplings.
I use the same basic recipe for biscuits and dumplings. I prepare the rest of the recipe first. Usually carrots, celery, onions, potatoes, fresh stock (I make all my own) pork or chicken, salt,pepper, fresh bay leaves in a large oven proof pot (usually cast iron) No real recipe, just clean out the fridge. All will be cooked on stovetop as desired and be at full temp before adding dumplings and placing into the oven
We like a thicker stew quality to the finished broth. Instead of adding a buerre manie, roux or cornstarch, I add regular corn meal or grits near the end of the stove top cook. How much depends upon how thick you like the finished broth. We like the flavor and mouthfeel. Cornmeal is good but Grits are hard to beat. Stir it slowly into the simmering stock as normal to eliminate lumps and proceed.
Variations for the biscuit dough include adding some fresh herbs from the garden and Parmesan cheese (our daughter's favorite) to the dough. The same process of cutting the fat, buttermilk, etc is done. Since I spoon the dough directly into the hit simmering liquid with two spoons, I don't reserve anything. Mixing in bowl replaces kneading. Dumplings are great practice if your biscuits aren't great.
Make sure to leave enough room for leavening so the pot in the oven (around 350f) doesn't overflow and make a mess. I usually bake my dumplings with a sheet pan under the pot.
Having the liquid boiling hot when dumplings are spooned into it will help quickly cook the lower half as the upper portion is cooked mostly by the radiant heat within the oven.
####
Biscuits are about quick make-up. Don't overwork them. Have oven up to full temp before starting on dough. Cut chilled fat into measured flour to produce many small, flour coated lumps of solid fat. Limited mixing beyond evenly mixing the ingredients. Far less effort is used to knead this dough. Add buttermilk to consistency. Work in reserved flour while kneading. Cut biscuits. Bake. Brush or add butter pat of each when removed from oven.
Dumplings are similar. Have everything else cooked and ready. Have oven up,to,temp. Make up Dough as desired. Spoon dumpling divisions into hot liquid, then bake in 350 oven. Enjoy.
As you understand the various specifics at play, tweaks to boost leavening, develop a little more gluten and limit evaporation are just simple logic.
-
Hey Cliffrod, Thank you so much for sharing that information, I'll be filing all of this and it will be my "go to" baking reference :bow:
I wasn't aware of the relationship between biscuits and dumplings, and now at least, I have an idea what all those different types of flours are about.
I just made a huge pot roast with dumplings yesterday, so it will be a while before I do up another batch, but I'll definitely incorporate some of your ideas and guidance going forward.
In the interest of managing my food cupboards and kitchen, if possible, I like to use ingredients that I can do many things with, I'd appreciate your thoughts on some of the following.
First, I was shocked you never mentioned eggs! I think I've thrown an egg in every dumpling I've ever made; have I been wasting my eggs all this time for no reason,lol?
I like your idea of keeping it simple, if I understand correctly, when my bag of AP flour & baking powder are finished, a bag of good SR flour is all I need and I'm good to go?
I manage my pantry with big glass jars, would 2L glass pickle jars be suitable storage for SR flour or would it be light sensitive?
I normally have 10% cream and canned evaporated milk on hand, which would be closest to Buttermilk? I have thrown a cup of yogurt in on occasion.
I love your idea of the Parmesan cheese, :drool: and the fresh spices. :drool:
I use ground up dry Rosemary and Summer Savory, any other recommendations on spices?
I never have lard or margarine on hand;I have butter on hand, but it's not something I normally use, should I?
I use Olive oil, but I could start saving my bacon drippings if it would be a better substitute for lard.
I know it's a regional thing, but grits & cornmeal are not things I'm real familiar with, I can see the cornmeal adding a nice flavorful touch at the end. I usually just add my potatoes a bit early for the starch, and sometimes add a little oatmeal at the end, I find it it does nice things to a broth.
I just replaced my cook top, repairing my oven is next on the to do list; when it's up and running, the first thing going in it, will be my first ever batch of savory biscuits! :thumb:
Thank you very much
Kelly
-
Cheers Cliffrod - that is a true tour de force - thank you
If I can just get some flour and yeast I'd be cooking with gas but the shelves are bare here at the moment
Its starting to recover though so I'll keep my eyes peeled
-
Wow. What a lot of good info to incorporate into my biscuit-making.
No matter how hard I try, I can't use standard ingredients, and make my biscuits come out tall and fluffy like even KFC or Biscuitville biscuits. But I've got a few different things to try now!
Just a detail note ... Whereas pure oils and lard are 100% fat, hydrogenated vegetable shortening is about 70%, and "real" butter is about 80% fat, I think ....
Lannis
-
Hey Cliffrod, Thank you so much for sharing that information, I'll be filing all of this and it will be my "go to" baking reference :bow:
I wasn't aware of the relationship between biscuits and dumplings, and now at least, I have an idea what all those different types of flours are about.
there are lots of variations, but the are similarities because of the shortened aspect of the dough. Yorkshire Pudding using the rendered fat from the roast beef is similar. They aren't formal dumplings or biscuits, but are close relatives.
I just made a huge pot roast with dumplings yesterday, so it will be a while before I do up another batch, but I'll definitely incorporate some of your ideas and guidance going forward.
In the interest of managing my food cupboards and kitchen, if possible, I like to use ingredients that I can do many things with, I'd appreciate your thoughts on some of the following.
First, I was shocked you never mentioned eggs! I think I've thrown an egg in every dumpling I've ever made; have I been wasting my eggs all this time for no reason,lol?
eggs add different proteins plus fat plus water.
Left whole and unbeaten, they are more likely to interfere with development of gluten structure. You'll have a tougher product and risk having definitive areas of cooked egg white and/or yellow yolk.
If separated and whites are beaten into a meringue and gently folded into a soft batter, they are an effective leavening agent. It's difficult to gently fold beaten egg whites into any dough that's stiff enough to be kneaded.
If beaten whole as in an attempt to make meringue, the yolks interfere and limit the amount of potential volume. This helps avoid definitive streaks of egg white or yolk, but leavening potential is limited.
Egg yolks contain lecithin, which is a very effective emulsifying agent. This can cause specific effect within a mixture, which may or may not be desired. Unless there's something in a biscuit/dumpling dough that I need to emulsify, I don't need to add it.
Add eggs if you like. Lots of variations.
I like your idea of keeping it simple, if I understand correctly, when my bag of AP flour & baking powder are finished, a bag of good SR flour is all I need and I'm good to go?
yup. I only make SR flour from AP and baking powder when I run out. Otherwise, I keep SR flour on the shelf.
I manage my pantry with big glass jars, would 2L glass pickle jars be suitable storage for SR flour or would it be light sensitive?
I avoid all glass at all times in a kitchen because glass breaks. When broken with energy (dropped) it broadcasts over a large area and requires everything within radius that is uncovered be discarded. It is a huge liability in a professional kitchen. No need for me to do things differently at home. I cannot afford the risk of wasted product or injury. I have two Purex measuring cups but even those make me uncomfortable. Commercial grade (marked NSF in USA) cookware, small ware utensils and storage equipment is often no more expensive than typical consumer equivalents.
Light can be an issue, but probably less so where you live than in a hotter environment. Except for these tin baking powder cans, we use either used restaurant-grade stainless steel hotel pans and containers or new clear plastic commercial grade lexan containers (Rubbermaid, etc). Square/rectangular containers economize space. Uniform sizes share lids and nest when not in use. I decided to start building by kitchen with them and eventually got there, mostly buying used. Takes a while on a budget but IMHO it's worth the effort.
I normally have 10% cream and canned evaporated milk on hand, which would be closest to Buttermilk? I have thrown a cup of yogurt in on occasion.
Growing up on a dairy farm in VT & SC, I see store-bought "buttermilk" as much different than real buttermilk. As a chef, you adapt to what's on hand. Canned evaporated milk will dilute as desired to the desired fat percentage. 10% cream can also be diluted. Grocery store buttermilk often has very minor fat content, sometimes 0%-2%. I'm a big fan of the flavor added by buttermilk. A small amount of vinegar or lemon juice will acidulate whatever milk is on hand for a basic substitute. Drained yogurt solids are a great alternate ingredient for many uses. The yogurt liquid/whey has use as well, including adding to milk/cream as a way to fake the tangy flavor of buttermilk.....
Try your dough with variations of what you have and keep good notes along the way. Find what works for you.
I love your idea of the Parmesan cheese, :drool: and the fresh spices. :drool:
I use ground up dry Rosemary and Summer Savory, any other recommendations on spices?
I make the dough to appropriate quality without the Parmesan cheese, then mix in approx 1/4-1/3 as much grated cheeses as flour. Parmesan cheese does not interact with the other ingredients in the same way, so doesn't change the dough that much in this situation- especially if mixed in after the dough is made.
Parmesan cheese adds salt, so I regularly use it in a range of recipes as a salt trade-off. salt is adjusted down other parts of a recipe.
The herbs used range with the meat or flavor I want. I keep dried oregano, dried basil and dried thyme to supplement the same fresh (plus parsley, rosemary and more) that grow well here. In VT, dried herbs were more regularly used.
I never have lard or margarine on hand;I have butter on hand, but it's not something I normally use, should I?
I use Olive oil, but I could start saving my bacon drippings if it would be a better substitute for lard.
the fat used is up to you. That's why I explained my goal of wanting to produce a large quantity of flour coated small lumps of solid fat. One friend makes his biscuits with mayonnaise. A liquid fat changes the waly the dough cooks and leavens. Not right or wrong, just different and maybe desirable.
Butter is more difficult to cut into the flour. Chilled from the fridge, it is very hard. It can be diced up to make it easier to cut into the flour, but that's a PIA. It can be warmed slightly to soften, but there's a narrow range between soft and melted. If melted, it works as a liquid fat and things change.
I keep a range of fat here, reserved from cooking for cooking. Chicken fat, bacon fat, pork lard, etc. plus unsalted butter, margarine, vegetable oil and good tasting olive oil. most animal fats are more condiment than anything else. Most cooking is done with olive oil, which would be my last choice for biscuit or dumpling dough- as much for flavor as anything else.
For flavoring dumplings, I am more likely to use something like bacon fat or chicken in the stew pot to brown/cook the meat and veg. When I add the stock, the fat floats on top. When adding dumplings, submerge them at first. The tops will then be coated with this floating flavored fat. Anything not captured by the tops will still rise to the top of the liquid to be trapped and then incorporated into the underside of the dumpling. The flavor of the liquid fat is captured by the dumpling without compromising the leavening of the dough. With this fat on top, the dumpling tops even brown to a better golden brown. Win, win, win.
I know it's a regional thing, but grits & cornmeal are not things I'm real familiar with, I can see the cornmeal adding a nice flavorful touch at the end. I usually just add my potatoes a bit early for the starch, and sometimes add a little oatmeal at the end, I find it it does nice things to a broth.
we keep oatmeal and have used it for the same. I usually run it through the food processor first to make it more homogenous when it gelatinizes. Potatoes work fine. Mashed cooked beans work fine. I like the small bits of cooked reconstituted corn a lot. Not like eating whole kernel corn, but more substance than other finer starches.
I keep cornmeal to cook and to use as a lubricant on counter & pans when making bread, so it's handy. It's easy to have extra left over and it may have bits of dough in it. If you don't just put it back into the bag, Sweep it into a container and save it to use for thickening like this. You can also save the loose baked cornmeal from the bread sheet pan and use it the same way. It's a cheap way to stretch budget and not waste anything in your kitchen.
I just replaced my cook top, repairing my oven is next on the to do list; when it's up and running, the first thing going in it, will be my first ever batch of savory biscuits! :thumb:
its tricky to cook good biscuits on a stovetop or campfire, but I've done it. Keep me posted and ask any questions you have. I'll try to help.
Thank you very much
you're very welcome, sir. Glad this made someone happy!
Kelly
-
Wow. What a lot of good info to incorporate into my biscuit-making.
No matter how hard I try, I can't use standard ingredients, and make my biscuits come out tall and fluffy like even KFC or Biscuitville biscuits. But I've got a few different things to try now!
Just a detail note ... Whereas pure oils and lard are 100% fat, hydrogenated vegetable shortening is about 70%, and "real" butter is about 80% fat, I think ....
Lannis
Butter varies a lot, depending upon what brand or style. A European style like Plugra is higher fat (80%+ range) and performs much differently than typical USA butter that more likely to be in the 70%-75%. Some probably leave (or incorporate) more water as an extender or to make it softer. Handmade butter varies the most. The only way you can really know is to clarify a given brand and quantify the percentages. The 70% value is a dependable average, even if low.
For this use, hydrogenated fats may have attached water (molecular level) but it doesn't melt out readily. So it performs more lke a solid fat than a butter or margarine where the water is readily accessible.
Hydrogenated oils are hygroscopic and may also have emulsifying qualities, so attract moisture to keep baked products from staling as quickly as non-hydrogenated fats. Given this tendency to adhere to moisture and moist surfaces, they are functionally "stickier." This can help adhere present flavor qualities to tissues in the mouth to enhance and prolong the tasting experience.
Sticky fats in the body aren't necessarily a good thing. But the body can probably more readily process naturally occurring non-hydrogenated sticky fats in moderation that man made hydrogenated sticky fats in any quantity.
My goal has been the same KFC-Hardee's-Bojangles southern style biscuits. The margarine and the late addition of reserved raw flour made the big difference in mine. Working/kneading the dough very little is critical, but it seems the extra water from the margarine (which also cuts into a finer mesh more readily) for leavening and the extra gluten structure were the turning points.
With biscuits, less is more. It's one of the most minimalistic things to cook. Whatever people do with their unsatisfactory biscuits, simply working them a little less often improves the result. Once that is realized, the rest becomes easier to address. Having the science at hand to use for evaluation will hopefully be beneficial.
-
"eggs add different proteins plus fat plus water.
Left whole and unbeaten, they are more likely to interfere with development of gluten structure. You'll have a tougher product"
^^^^^^^We have a winner, chicken dinner^^^^^^^ :bow:
Hey Cliffrod, Thanks for addressing all my questions.
My dumplings have always been flavorful, but very hearty like biting into a steak, what others might call "tough" lol.
I always wondered why my dumplings weren't the fluffy light clouds I remembered eating as a kid, now I know, glad I asked you.
I'll up my game on my next batch, add a little vinegar, cut in the butter and with no egg should be light and fluffy like cotton candy.
Thanks for sharing and taking the time, very much appreciated, but I'm sure the proof will be in the dumplings.
stay safe take care
Kelly
-
Very cool, Kelly.
Comfort food is very personal. Lots of chefs ruin favorite grandma/family recipes when they "fix" them. Clarifying the mechanics of what's happening is better than dictating right vs wrong. It's hard for a chef that's been driven towards perfection to simply relax and just cook.
One more point to add regarding ingredients that may help. Professionals usually prove ingredients and recipes. They will normally scale ingredients for more consistent results. Home cooks just trust that all will be fine if they follow the recipe and usually measure most things by simple volume. It doesn't always end well.
As an example, Butter is mostly oil and water. Since water weighs more than the oil, percentage values of a given sample's weight will be different than values in the sample's volumetric percentages. It may be negligible in a small batch recipe. Scaled up to production levels, it may be significant. It's very common for recipes to need significant adjustment depending upon scale of production. This is a main reason that certain ingredient/products are absolutes in a kitchen to ensure consistent performance.
-
We hadn't had biscuits this week. so after all this bread threadin', its biscuit time.
Measure SR flour into bowl. Between 2 1/2-3 cups, guesstimate, to make 8 3 1/2" X 1" breakfast sandwich-sized biscuits. Reserve <1/2 cup flour to add later. Oven is already preheated to 500F conventional. Margarine and buttermilk are waiting on board.
(https://i.ibb.co/Qrp8Pwj/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qrp8Pwj)
Scoop 1/3- <1/2 cup (guesstimate) of margarine with masher, drop into center of flour.
(https://i.ibb.co/DG9BN79/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DG9BN79)
Cut fat (margarine) into flour. It only takes a few mashes to cut flour into small pieces and minor simultaneous "mixing" to ensure all are covered with flour. As soon as the largest remaining pieces of fat are approx the size of a fresh green pea, I stop.
(https://i.ibb.co/4JzZ7QM/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4JzZ7QM)
Make well in center of flour-fat mixture. Add approx 3/4 cup buttermilk to well.
(https://i.ibb.co/1vTdWfH/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1vTdWfH)
i mix all together using a fork to stir dry ingredients towards center into buttermilk while turning the bowl as needed. I try to keep fork relatively dry at first until good incorporation is achieved. Then I turn all together enough times to equalize the dough. I'm looking for consistent and uniform incorporation, not a single unified mass of dough. If sides of bowl,are basically dry but not perfectly clean, liquid ratio is good. It's better to have to add a little liquid than to try to work in more flour. The excess water will evaporate and actually makes biscuits a little lighter and crispier. More flour wreck ratio of flour-fat and leads to more gluten potential.
(https://i.ibb.co/W02SGrg/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W02SGrg)
(https://i.ibb.co/wNJ3CCf/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wNJ3CCf)
Dump/spread just more than half of the reserved flour onto work surface (I do it on the actual baking sheet, one less thing to clean) and turn dough out of bowl onto flour. If ratios are good, bowl should be very clean but not perfectly clean. See pic-
(https://i.ibb.co/1MzhdxQ/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1MzhdxQ)
Put most of the remaining flour on top. Then knead together 3-4 times, turning and folding the dough as majority part of the kneading process. Don't knead it like bread dough. Simply incorporate it into a single, uniform mass. It shouldn't be stuck to the work surface. There should still be a light layer of loose flour underneath, separating dough from work surface.
(https://i.ibb.co/n0B5qh4/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n0B5qh4)
With my fingers, I press dough into a uniform thickness, approx 3/4"-1" thick. Using a rolling pin is fine but I like feeling the dough to monitor condition. It should be very delicate and soft, almost puffy. Using my fingers also also allows me to shape the dough into a shape facilitating cutting biscuits with less scrap. More working of scraps=more kneading= more gluten potential. Rolling dough with rolling pinusually means more scrap to reassemble and work, resulting in a greater number of tougher biscuits.
(https://i.ibb.co/09NqRYH/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/09NqRYH)
Thickness is relevant to my desired result. My largest biscuit cutter is 2 3/4" diameter. I cut 6 biscuits before assembling the scraps for the final two biscuits. Then 1 is cut. The last one is formed by hand.
(https://i.ibb.co/FXbT1j4/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FXbT1j4)
(https://i.ibb.co/6W6RRtN/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6W6RRtN)
Biscuits are arranged in staggered position because I want them to nest & cook together for softer edges. For,crispy biscuits, I would keep them well separated. Then I gently flatten them with my fingers to approx 1/2" thick to make them larger, approx 3" in diameter. (This flattening is typical to do with yeast dough sandwich buns, so,they aren't just super balls..). Uniform thickness means uniform bake. Dust the tops with remaining flour and place in HOT 500F oven.
(https://i.ibb.co/kySRPwR/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kySRPwR)
My wife says "aren't you going to take pics and tell them about the rest of breakfast?"
On the stovetop are hash browns. After turning on the oven and beforei start the biscuits- Three medium potatoes, large grated on the old flat cheese grater like typical pizza cheese. Grate into bowl (actually used this biscuit bowl before doing biscuits). Add a little salt. Mix and let rest for a couple minutes. Medium-medium high heat burner with cast iron skillet and a little left over vegetable oil. Potatoes oxidize and turn brown. No worries- they turn back to proper white color as they cook. Squeeze out excess water. Layer squeezed grated potatoes into pan. Long, slow even sizzle. Adjust heat (usually down) to avoid burning. Add a little extra oil around edges of needed. Turn once or twice after initial browning. They should hold together but will still be a challenge to turn in one piece. If they stick like crazy, they aren't browned/caramelized yet. Slow cook and even sizzle makes great hash browns. Fast cook high heat burns them.
Next to the hash browns is some leftover ham, not proper country ham but our favorite Cade's Cove ham from Lenoir City, TN-
(https://i.ibb.co/3rx2ntr/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3rx2ntr)
Beat a few eggs (4). When ham is done, make eggs for biscuits. 8-9 pieces
(https://i.ibb.co/PYm1jgB/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PYm1jgB)
If you're busy at the stovetop while something is in the oven instead of being far away from the stove, it's easier to keep track of what's happening. Looks like biscuits are ready. If undercooked, they fall apart. (Wet, soft) if overcooked, they go from brittle and shatter to hard. These are great moderate gold showing through raw flour on top-
(https://i.ibb.co/TLc0JRp/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TLc0JRp)
Add a pat of margarine to each to flavor and limit moisture loss. I use unsalted, but using salted butter/margarine gives more flavor more quickly when eaten because salt is left on surface to be tasted. As it melts, the true color is better revealed.
(https://i.ibb.co/0mFVmgN/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0mFVmgN)
(https://i.ibb.co/GxwGJBg/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GxwGJBg)
Time to eat. Happy daughter. Happy wife. Life could be a lot worse.
(https://i.ibb.co/P9QMMjy/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P9QMMjy)
(https://i.ibb.co/TghFF3z/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TghFF3z)
That's enough editing.... Time to finish my last biscuit and try to get some paying work done. Hope this helps with your biscuit (and dumpling) dough adventures.
-
thanks for taking the time to explain your bicuit making process.
I'm over half deaf from all the ex wives that made WHOP biscuits. :grin:
Tex
-
Hey Cliffrod, I did a big hamburger stew today so I thought I'd post a follow up with my modified dumpling recipe. Roughly as below with some notes.
3 cups flower
3 tblspn baking powder
lots of Rosemary 4 tblspns ?
thumb width of butter 1/3? cup? sliced/diced cut in with fork
2 tblps vinegar
2 cups ?10% cream
very thick, next time add 1/2 water
no egg dry dough,
spooned grease over dumplings
simmered 15 minutes off covered 20 minutes
I forgot to add water to dilute the cream, and without my standard oil, I had a very tough time getting my dough wet enough, I kept adding and working it in, that might have toughened the dumplings up a bit; I used up about 2 weeks worth of cream for my coffee in the dumplings, lol, but they came out pretty good if I say so myself.
Thanks for your guidance, as I said the proof will be in the dumplings, and a picture is worth a thousand words :food: :drool:
Kelly
(https://i.ibb.co/1X9s424/IMG-20200406-213416884.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1X9s424)
-
Hey Cliffrod, I did a big hamburger stew today so I thought I'd post a follow up with my modified dumpling recipe. Roughly as below with some notes.
3 cups flower
3 tblspn baking powder
lots of Rosemary 4 tblspns ?
thumb width of butter 1/3? cup? sliced/diced cut in with fork
2 tblps vinegar
2 cups ?10% cream
very thick, next time add 1/2 water
no egg dry dough,
spooned grease over dumplings
simmered 15 minutes off covered 20 minutes
I forgot to add water to dilute the cream, and without my standard oil, I had a very tough time getting my dough wet enough, I kept adding and working it in, that might have toughened the dumplings up a bit; I used up about 2 weeks worth of cream for my coffee in the dumplings, lol, but they came out pretty good if I say so myself.
Thanks for your guidance, as I said the proof will be in the dumplings, and a picture is worth a thousand words :food: :drool:
Kelly
(https://i.ibb.co/1X9s424/IMG-20200406-213416884.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1X9s424)
Very cool, Kelly. Those are looking good. I think you'll be happy with the added cream being thinned. Quick look at your quantities- I would be closer to 1- 1 1/4 cup total wet liquid (drinkable fluid wet, not thick). Only use barely enough liquid to achieve the necessary dough.
Making the biscuit dough just wet enough to quickly stick & mix together but not stick to the bowl is always my personal challenge. When I learned to do that, it helped mine a lot. Mine now comes together (mixing with fork as above) in maybe 4-5 rotations of my mixing bowl followed by only 2-3 more mix/stirs of dough with fork alone. When done properly, I have a soft, delicate dough that will only need 3-4 turns to knead (press flat, fold in half, press together is one turn) to make good biscuits. Avoiding extra working of the dough is always a challenge, even for me. Every batch is practice. It's fun to practice.
When adding baking powder to flour, to ensure uniform mixing you can either sift it together with a formal flour sifter or whisk the two dry ingredients together very well with a whisk. Then use as desired.
And there's nothing better than good fat- especially good meat fat- to flavor your dumplings. I always save my hamburger fat. having breakfast eggs cooked in last night's hamburger pan is always a special treat....
Carry on- Practice makes perfect!
-
I make a no kneed bread and bake in the clay pot(Emile Henry) with consistent results. Basically, mix the dough and let it stand for 12 hours or longer. The next day I just dust a towel with flour and use a spatula to drop it on the towel, fold it a couple of times and dust the top. Let stand for a second rise while the pot heats up in the oven. Drop it in the hot pot and in 40 minutes:
(https://i.ibb.co/Dt6V2ym/C5941-AD2-B189-4277-AB18-5453-BD632-DE9.jpg)
-
Thanks guys....
Nice post, but I have a couple of quibbles:
1. Cholesterol is NOT "...animal fat, nothing more nothing less". Cholesterol is a specific fatty molecule that differs completely from other lipid molecules like triglycerides and phospholipids. It's made by a completely different pathway than these other lipids. All animal cells have cholesterol as a minor component of their cell membranes, and cholesterol is absent from most plant cells. Almost all animals can synthesize their own cholesterol, so it isn't a required dietary nutrient, but it is an essential component of their cell membranes.
2. Flour is bleached not by exposure to light. Rather it is exposed to chemical oxidants like "Chlorine Dioxide, Nitrogen Dioxide, Chlorine, Calcium Peroxide, Azodicarbonamide, and Benzoyl Peroxide" (Wikipedia).
3. "Alternate flours, like rye..." some alternate flours, including rye, barley, and oats, DO contain glutens.
-
This Bread Thread is perfect timing!!! :thumb:
Grandma's monthly bread day was the BEST for my cousins and me. We'd play in the yard until the earsplitting Learjet whine of her wheat grinder came to an end, before venturing back inside to help. We were her "little dough mules", transporting bowls to the warm living room to rise was our job. I don't ever remember seeing that living room fireplace cold, no matter how hot it got in the summer, that hearth was always aglow.
Grandpa got in the mix too. He'd place a few jars of honey and comb from his apiary on the kitchen table, along with unsalted butter and an assortment of homemade jams. Grandma usually made a few dozen loaves, knowing full well that half of the day's work would be ingested before nightfall. Each batch had several "sacrificial" loaves that were carved, slathered with the aforementioned tasties and eaten before they could cool properly.
Last week, I made my first whole wheat loaf. I let it cool considerably before the slicing and slathering, much to my children's chagrin. My middle son, the pickiest of eaters, fell in love. The others thought it was okay, but it didn't meet their storebought expectations. My husband doesn't appreciate "cardboard" bread, regardless of the source.
I was gifted a sourdough starter that has survived my intermittent neglect since last summer. Methinks I shall try again.
-
Nice post, but I have a couple of quibbles:
1. Cholesterol is NOT "...animal fat, nothing more nothing less". Cholesterol is a specific fatty molecule that differs completely from other lipid molecules like triglycerides and phospholipids. It's made by a completely different pathway than these other lipids. All animal cells have cholesterol as a minor component of their cell membranes, and cholesterol is absent from most plant cells. Almost all animals can synthesize their own cholesterol, so it isn't a required dietary nutrient, but it is an essential component of their cell membranes.
2. Flour is bleached not by exposure to light. Rather it is exposed to chemical oxidants like "Chlorine Dioxide, Nitrogen Dioxide, Chlorine, Calcium Peroxide, Azodicarbonamide, and Benzoyl Peroxide" (Wikipedia).
3. "Alternate flours, like rye..." some alternate flours, including rye, barley, and oats, DO contain glutens.
Keep schooling me-
1. Specify the plant sources of cholesterol. The vast majority of "cholesterol-free" assertions are based upon the fact that no animal fats are added to the product. It's a marketing claim directed at people who know no better. That's the entire point of my assertion.
2. Chemical oxidants can be used. Read the label to see what method of oxidation is used. Before the govt created specifc means to address spurious methods and ingredients, Diatomaceous earth was used as an extender for white sugar. Not cool, to say the least. Different oxidation methods produce different peripheral effects, speed of process, etc. tell an average person that something is bleached and they'll think the item was soaked in bleach.
Unbleached flour avoids much of this matter....
3. Specify the actual proteins present in alternative flours that provide gluten potential. As stated, "gluten" is not a specifc unique molecule or chemical compound like sodium chloride or the oxidizing agents listed above. It is a elastic physical structure created as specific proteins are moistened with water and manipulated. Either you have a physical sensitivity to the elastic gluten structures (which are changed dramatically by cooking process during which the responsible proteins are coagulated), you have specific allergy to the protein(s) present and responsible for gluten potential or both. If you have a true gluten-related medical sensitivity or allergy, it is imperative that you know the true specifics of the matter- not just anecdotal information.
I will agree that oat flour (made from wheat) contains glutenin and gliadin. That is obvious.
-
Keep schooling me-
1. Specify the plant sources of cholesterol. The vast majority of "cholesterol-free" assertions are based upon the fact that no animal fats are added to the product. It's a marketing claim directed at people who know no better. That's the entire point of my assertion.
2. Chemical oxidants can be used. Read the label to see what method of oxidation is used. Before the govt created specifc means to address spurious methods and ingredients, Diatomaceous earth was used as an extender for white sugar. Not cool, to say the least. Different oxidation methods produce different peripheral effects, speed of process, etc. tell an average person that something is bleached and they'll think the item was soaked in bleach.
Unbleached flour avoids much of this matter....
3. Specify the actual proteins present in alternative flours that provide gluten potential. As stated, "gluten" is not a specifc unique molecule or chemical compound like sodium chloride or the oxidizing agents listed above. It is a elastic physical structure created as specific proteins are moistened with water and manipulated. Either you have a physical sensitivity to the elastic gluten structures (which are changed dramatically by cooking process during which the responsible proteins are coagulated), you have specific allergy to the protein(s) present and responsible for gluten potential or both. If you have a true gluten-related medical sensitivity or allergy, it is imperative that you know the true specifics of the matter- not just anecdotal information.
I will agree that oat flour (made from wheat) contains glutenin and gliadin. That is obvious.
1. As far as I am aware, no plants contain cholesterol, but many plants contain low levels of related sterols (phytosterols) that apparently can react with our metabolism to lower LDL levels and not affect HDL levels.
2. Agree totally.
3. To quote from Wikipedia: "Gluten ... is a group of proteins, called prolamins and glutelins, which occur with starch in the endosperm of various cereal grains....It is found in ... wheat species and hybrids, (such as spelt, khorasan, emmer, einkorn, and triticale), barley, rye, and oats....Prolamins in wheat are called gliadins; in barley, hordeins; in rye, secalins; and in oats, avenins. These protein classes are collectively referred to as gluten. Wheat glutelins are called glutenin. True gluten is limited to these four grains. (The storage proteins in maize and rice are sometimes called glutens, but they differ from true gluten.)"
-
1. As far as I am aware, no plants contain cholesterol, but many plants contain low levels of related sterols (phytosterols) that apparently can react with our metabolism to lower LDL levels and not affect HDL levels.
2. Agree totally.
3. To quote from Wikipedia: "Gluten ... is a group of proteins, called prolamins and glutelins, which occur with starch in the endosperm of various cereal grains....It is found in ... wheat species and hybrids, (such as spelt, khorasan, emmer, einkorn, and triticale), barley, rye, and oats....Prolamins in wheat are called gliadins; in barley, hordeins; in rye, secalins; and in oats, avenins. These protein classes are collectively referred to as gluten. Wheat glutelins are called glutenin. True gluten is limited to these four grains. (The storage proteins in maize and rice are sometimes called glutens, but they differ from true gluten.)"
1. As stated, cholesterol is animal fat, not plant fat. Very cool.
2. Very cool.
3. In motorcycle terms, gluten is analogous to a power band in a motorcycle's engine. It exists as a function or behavior of other specific components. All engines have a power band where optimum power is produced during operation, but not as a specific component. Gluten is as difficult to explain to most people as a power band. Both are a catch-all term, used to describe a created condition similar but not necessarily the same in different situations. Just like a mechanic's eyes glaze over when a person wants the power band on his two stroke dirt bike fixed or adjusted, a knowledgable chef does the same thing when the word gluten is wielded improperly.
Many things have tendencies that are described as glutinous, whether or not that is a scientifically accurate use of the word (much like the difference between "demonstrated" and "proven.") Mash your potatoes too vigorously, they get tough and your chef will kick your butt while telling you developed the gluten in the potatoes. Different potatoes have different starch characteristics so are often recommended with a warning about how much gluten they"ll make when mashed. High lysine corn meal seems very firm and almost glutinous to employ in a recipe, but it isn't truly providing any gluten structures as such. Lots of examples.
In terms of bread and baking bread- (Bread Thread), the gluten potential of alternate flours is minor if even present compared to traditional hard or soft wheat flour. Bake all of them and see. Post your results. If there was a quantitative amount of gluten-related proteins providing adequate gluten potential in alternate flours, bread baked from them would leaven just fine. It doesn't. Thick, dense loaves with no webbing and few if any visible voids (bubbles) is all you get.
I'm not a dietician nor do I claim to be one. Probably should have included that disclaimer at the beginning. I have successfully and safely fed hundreds if not thousands of special-diet-request patrons (with real and contrived conditions) over the years. Wiki is open source, so I only trust it to a point. I've been through 15 yrs of allergy shots with our daughter and now understand even better that generic allergy claims are often inadequate.
Far too many people who have no reason other than fashion enjoy the gluten-free trend, much like vegetarians wearing leather.... As stated, know what you are specifically allergic to and address it accordingly. If you would like to quote wiki and do a thread on microbiology and chemistry, that would be fine. It would be more fun to bake good bread.
-
Cool, let's get back to V7 Moto Guzzis. I forwarded your no-knead process to my wife, who says it's very much like the method she has been using, but she appreciates the details and explanations you provide. Thanks.
-
A man's got to know his limitations
I make a trip every so often (now every 2 weeks) to this little Baker that was educated in France.
The Griso and I get at least 5 loaves when we go. Three olive, a ciabatta, a blue cheese and walnut usually. I have to wait to St Paddy's day for Irish soda bread.
They last about a week and a half.
I'm glad I put the alum panniers on the Griso. The rides take at least 45 minutes of windy country road each way in the Sierra Foothills. (it's been known sometimes to take hours)
(http://andraesbakery.com/wpimages/wp8b38a3bb_06.png)
-
I make a trip every so often (now every 2 weeks) to this little Baker that was educated in France.
The Griso and I get at least 5 loaves when we go. Three olive, a ciabatta, a blue cheese and walnut usually. I have to wait to St Paddy's day for Irish soda bread.
They last about a week and a half.
I'm glad I put the alum panniers on the Griso. The rides take at least 45 minutes of windy country road each way in the Sierra Foothills. (it's been known sometimes to take hours)
(http://andraesbakery.com/wpimages/wp8b38a3bb_06.png)
Olives are such a great food. I make and keep tapenade on hand nearly all the time. I've cured a number of batches of fresh olives, but it's hard to source fresh olives in this area without buying a large quantity for 1-2 persons to eat. And not everyone is keen on sharing large quantities of olives. Nothing like good olives and fresh bread, whether they're in it or on it.
A long traditional bread apprenticeship in France would have been great. Earning an earring would have been very cool.
-
Cliffrod,
many thanks for an inspiring thread, that, for me as for others here, also evokes childhood memories.
Your educational explanations of what happens during baking and cooking were particularly useful.
Something good has come out of this for me: Craving fresh bread I've started baking, but so far only the befitting lazy man's bread :grin: Flour, nuts, oatmeal, seed, dry yeast and water stirred, poured in loaf tins for leavening cold overnight and then baked.
I admit it's far from the really good homemade bread you advocate, yet it's good to vary bit, and it's good in its own way.
-
Cliffrod,
many thanks for an inspiring thread, that, for me as for others here, also evokes childhood memories.
Your educational explanations of what happens during baking and cooking were particularly useful.
Something good has come out of this for me: Craving fresh bread I've started baking, but so far only the befitting lazy man's bread :grin: Flour, nuts, oatmeal, seed, dry yeast and water stirred, poured in loaf tins for leavening cold overnight and then baked.
I admit it's far from the really good homemade bread you advocate, yet it's good to vary bit, and it's good in its own way.
Very cool, Pebra. If I can share anything that helps or motivates someone else to cook or cook better, that's the big prize. This isn't about uppity food. Some chefs & foodies are snobs. Others are slobs. I want to be somewhere in the middle with the fluency to go either way.
The thing about this artisan bread in five minutes bread is it is the laziest dough i've ever made and it still makes great simple bread. After the first rise and overnight retard, you can just cut a chunk of this dough, throw it in a pan to proof and bake like that. The only seeds we regularly use in bread are flaxseed, sunflower or sesame seeds but that defeats using the old bread for bread crumbs.
This detail hasn't been mentioned yet. If you do want seeds, pretzel salt, sanding sugar, additional coarse corn meal, etc on the outside of a bread product- before cooking, wet the surface of the proofed dough just before cooking. Then roll, broadcast or sprinkle the seeds onto the dough. I use a spray bottle. Plain water is fine, but anything with water (egg, milk, beer, etc applied with a brush) will make the seeds stick and stay on the bread as it bakes. Water hydrates some of the present starch, which creates a functional glue on the surface of the gluten cloak. This makes product stick vs product applied to dry dough that typically just falls off. If the surface is too wet, the crust may blister- especially if the oven is really hot. That's usually only a problem if there are actual droplets of water on the dough.
btw- your bread sounds good..
-
^ Thanks for your kind words, Cliffrod!
I'm definitely interested in your recipe for the artisan bread on page 1 (inserted below), for a day I feel extra energetic! :grin:
I'm used to metric recipes, but I guess I can simply take a not-too-big cup and measure away.
Then I'm not familiar with your granulated yeast, and doubt if I can get it here. How about using dry (powdered) yeast instead?
And - 1 1/2 tbs of salt, are you sure about that?
3 cups lukewarm water
1 1/2 tablespoon granulated yeast (1 1/2 packets)
1 1/2 tablespoon kosher or other coarse salt
6 1/2 cups unsifted unbleached all purpose flour, measured with the scoop-and-sweep method.
-
^ Thanks for your kind words, Cliffrod!
I'm definitely interested in your recipe for the artisan bread on page 1 (inserted below), for a day I feel extra energetic! :grin:
I'm used to metric recipes, but I guess I can simply take a not-too-big cup and measure away.
Then I'm not familiar with your granulated yeast, and doubt if I can get it here. How about using dry (powdered) yeast instead?
And - 1 1/2 tbs of salt, are you sure about that?
3 cups lukewarm water
1 1/2 tablespoon granulated yeast (1 1/2 packets)
1 1/2 tablespoon kosher or other coarse salt
6 1/2 cups unsifted unbleached all purpose flour, measured with the scoop-and-sweep method.
I specifically typed that recipe word-for-word from my copy of the book. It was the first time I had opened it in a long time.
Powdered dry yeast may perform the same. Depends upon brand. Give it a try. Understand that finer grains mean greater density within a given volumetric measure- just like I describe with the salt below.
The 1 1/2 T coarse salt measure is correct. Kosher salt is larger uneven pieces, so is far less dense than the same volumetric measure of normal cubic crystalline table salt.
After all these years, I only roughly measure the ingredients now while trying to keep ratios appropriate. Instead of equal measures of granulated yeast & salt, I generally try to err with a little more yeast than salt. Salt kills yeast and a little extra yeast in this dough doesn't present problems.
-
Cliffrod,
You have a wealth of good information on baking; my wife has been making artisanal bread for the last few years, using the "no-knead" process, and all done by hand. Lots of time (2 days) are needed to make 2 round loaves, but the result is wonderful.
She uses bread flour, sometimes with a blend of rye flower, or a mix of unbleached and whole grain.
Since we are from Italy, and flour there goes by the grade "00" or Manitoba, we would like to know:
What are the US equivalents for 00 and Manitoba?
Also, where can you buy fresh (cake) yeast?
It used to be available in all supermarkets back in the '70s, but now, you can only get dry, powdered yeast, either the instant or regular kind. In Europe fresh yeast is still available in any grocery store.
Thanks,
VB
-
Cliffrod,
You have a wealth of good information on baking; my wife has been making artisanal bread for the last few years, using the "no-knead" process, and all done by hand. Lots of time (2 days) are needed to make 2 round loaves, but the result is wonderful.
She uses bread flour, sometimes with a blend of rye flower, or a mix of unbleached and whole grain.
Since we are from Italy, and flour there goes by the grade "00" or Manitoba, we would like to know:
What are the US equivalents for 00 and Manitoba?
Also, where can you buy fresh (cake) yeast?
It used to be available in all supermarkets back in the '70s, but now, you can only get dry, powdered yeast, either the instant or regular kind. In Europe fresh yeast is still available in any grocery store.
Thanks,
VB
The following should be close if not fully correct.
00 refers to the mesh of the grind. Pretty typical for pasta dough in Italy. Rough equivalent in terms of mesh or grind is what would is sold as Pastry Flour here in the states. The problem is Pastry flour is usually very low protein (low gluten potential, to produce tender product) so isn't an equitable substitution. All purpose flour would be a closer equivalent in terms of protein to 00, but would equate to what is sold as 2 in Italy which is a larger mesh. It's my understanding that Italian flour was milled to a given mesh more as a trade method of identification for intended use than an indication of protein content & gluten potential. Totally different approach than some others cuisines.
Manitoba is a general trade name/term for farina flour, a hard winter wheat flour that is very high in protein so it has more gluten potential. It's often blended with lower protein flour to raise gluten potential. The prefix W in a flour name is indicative of flour enhanced with Manitoba flour. You may be able to purchase what is labeled high gluten flour that has a 15% protein content, typical for making bagels and some specialty breads. That would be a W or Manitoba product. That's what I used making bagels. Otherwise, use a good bread flour that will normally be in the minimum 12.5%-13% range. We rely upon King Arthur Bread Flour and are very happy with it. In my experience, most bread products do not benefit from using high gluten flour. It works, but 13%-14% flour is a better option than 15%.
True bagel dough uses very little yeast. A regular batch of plain bagel dough was 100 pounds of high gluten flour, 50 pounds water, 8 pounds sugar, 1 pound kosher salt(iirc) and 1 pound fresh yeast. So that's 159 lbs of product being leavened by 1 pound of fresh yeast (with significant inherent water content). So there needs to be a significant gluten structure to capture every bit of leaving gases produced by the yeast. Most breads have a much greater yeast ratio and much less sugar, so that extra 1-2% of protein isn't needed.
If available at a supermarket, Fresh yeast cakes are usually very well hidden near the fresh butter. Look close to the Plugra or European style high fat butter. If they carry that, there's often fresh yeast nearby in small 1 ounce foil-wrapped packages that look like a butter pat at a restaurant. Bigger 1 pound blocks can be purchased through a professional food service like Sysco or US Foods if you have access. Sometimes a local food coop or farmer's market will have such a connection. Brewer's yeast is different, but you may even find a local craft brewery that can connect you with a resource for regular fresh yeast.
I find it's hard to find fresh yeast that's actually fresh- it's usually old, flexible and rubbery instead of firm and brittle like fresh yeast should be. Most regular stores don't sell enough fresh yeast to keep stock rotated. That's why I buy Fleischman's or Saf T instant yeast in vacuum packed 1 pound foil bags. it's more consistent and durable.
Hope this helps, VB.
-
The following should be close if not fully correct.
00 refers to the mesh of the grind. Pretty typical for pasta dough in Italy. Rough equivalent in terms of mesh or grind is what would is sold as Pastry Flour here in the states. The problem is Pastry flour is usually very low protein (low gluten potential, to produce tender product) so isn't an equitable substitution. All purpose flour would be a closer equivalent in terms of protein to 00, but would equate to what is sold as 2 in Italy which is a larger mesh. It's my understanding that Italian flour was milled to a given mesh more as a trade method of identification for intended use than an indication of protein content & gluten potential. Totally different approach than some others cuisines.
Manitoba is a general trade name/term for farina flour, a hard winter wheat flour that is very high in protein so it has more gluten potential. It's often blended with lower protein flour to raise gluten potential. The prefix W in a flour name is indicative of flour enhanced with Manitoba flour. You may be able to purchase what is labeled high gluten flour that has a 15% protein content, typical for making bagels and some specialty breads. That would be a W or Manitoba product. That's what I used making bagels. Otherwise, use a good bread flour that will normally be in the minimum 12.5%-13% range. We rely upon King Arthur Bread Flour and are very happy with it. In my experience, most bread products do not benefit from using high gluten flour. It works, but 13%-14% flour is a better option than 15%.
True bagel dough uses very little yeast. A regular batch of plain bagel dough was 100 pounds of high gluten flour, 50 pounds water, 8 pounds sugar, 1 pound kosher salt(iirc) and 1 pound fresh yeast. So that's 159 lbs of product being leavened by 1 pound of fresh yeast (with significant inherent water content). So there needs to be a significant gluten structure to capture every bit of leaving gases produced by the yeast. Most breads have a much greater yeast ratio and much less sugar, so that extra 1-2% of protein isn't needed.
If available at a supermarket, Fresh yeast cakes are usually very well hidden near the fresh butter. Look close to the Plugra or European style high fat butter. If they carry that, there's often fresh yeast nearby in small 1 ounce foil-wrapped packages that look like a butter pat at a restaurant. Bigger 1 pound blocks can be purchased through a professional food service like Sysco or US Foods if you have access. Sometimes a local food coop or farmer's market will have such a connection. Brewer's yeast is different, but you may even find a local craft brewery that can connect you with a resource for regular fresh yeast.
I find it's hard to find fresh yeast that's actually fresh- it's usually old, flexible and rubbery instead of firm and brittle like fresh yeast should be. Most regular stores don't sell enough fresh yeast to keep stock rotated. That's why I buy Fleischman's or Saf T instant yeast in vacuum packed 1 pound foil bags. it's more consistent and durable.
Hope this helps, VB.
It sure does, Cliffrod. Through repeated experimentation, we concur with you that the King Arthur line of flours and the SAF powdered yeast make excellent dough time after time.
For pizza dough, however, we have relied on the imported Caputo brand from Italy, which tends to show consistent results. This brand is only available online.
-
It sure does, Cliffrod. Through repeated experimentation, we concur with you that the King Arthur line of flours and the SAF powdered yeast make excellent dough time after time.
For pizza dough, however, we have relied on the imported Caputo brand from Italy, which tends to show consistent results. This brand is only available online.
Yup, Caputo is the name to get get. Good stuff. Lots easier to throw a dough when it's made with a good strong flour that's well relaxed.
The only food product I generally order online anymore is fresh rennet to make fresh cheese. I did that quite a bit for a while when they started selling raw milk a mile away, but not much lately. We enjoy the Mozz and Ricotta, but we grew tired of using all the whey elsewhere and are too cheap to throw it away...
-
We hadn't had biscuits this week. so after all this bread threadin', its biscuit time.
Measure SR flour into bowl. Between 2 1/2-3 cups, guesstimate, to make 8 3 1/2" X 1" breakfast sandwich-sized biscuits. Reserve <1/2 cup flour to add later. Oven is already preheated to 500F conventional. Margarine and buttermilk are waiting on board.
(https://i.ibb.co/Qrp8Pwj/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qrp8Pwj)
Scoop 1/3- <1/2 cup (guesstimate) of margarine with masher, drop into center of flour.
(https://i.ibb.co/DG9BN79/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DG9BN79)
Cut fat (margarine) into flour. It only takes a few mashes to cut flour into small pieces and minor simultaneous "mixing" to ensure all are covered with flour. As soon as the largest remaining pieces of fat are approx the size of a fresh green pea, I stop.
(https://i.ibb.co/4JzZ7QM/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4JzZ7QM)
Make well in center of flour-fat mixture. Add approx 3/4 cup buttermilk to well.
(https://i.ibb.co/1vTdWfH/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1vTdWfH)
i mix all together using a fork to stir dry ingredients towards center into buttermilk while turning the bowl as needed. I try to keep fork relatively dry at first until good incorporation is achieved. Then I turn all together enough times to equalize the dough. I'm looking for consistent and uniform incorporation, not a single unified mass of dough. If sides of bowl,are basically dry but not perfectly clean, liquid ratio is good. It's better to have to add a little liquid than to try to work in more flour. The excess water will evaporate and actually makes biscuits a little lighter and crispier. More flour wreck ratio of flour-fat and leads to more gluten potential.
(https://i.ibb.co/W02SGrg/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W02SGrg)
(https://i.ibb.co/wNJ3CCf/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wNJ3CCf)
Dump/spread just more than half of the reserved flour onto work surface (I do it on the actual baking sheet, one less thing to clean) and turn dough out of bowl onto flour. If ratios are good, bowl should be very clean but not perfectly clean. See pic-
(https://i.ibb.co/1MzhdxQ/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1MzhdxQ)
Put most of the remaining flour on top. Then knead together 3-4 times, turning and folding the dough as majority part of the kneading process. Don't knead it like bread dough. Simply incorporate it into a single, uniform mass. It shouldn't be stuck to the work surface. There should still be a light layer of loose flour underneath, separating dough from work surface.
(https://i.ibb.co/n0B5qh4/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n0B5qh4)
With my fingers, I press dough into a uniform thickness, approx 3/4"-1" thick. Using a rolling pin is fine but I like feeling the dough to monitor condition. It should be very delicate and soft, almost puffy. Using my fingers also also allows me to shape the dough into a shape facilitating cutting biscuits with less scrap. More working of scraps=more kneading= more gluten potential. Rolling dough with rolling pinusually means more scrap to reassemble and work, resulting in a greater number of tougher biscuits.
(https://i.ibb.co/09NqRYH/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/09NqRYH)
Thickness is relevant to my desired result. My largest biscuit cutter is 2 3/4" diameter. I cut 6 biscuits before assembling the scraps for the final two biscuits. Then 1 is cut. The last one is formed by hand.
(https://i.ibb.co/FXbT1j4/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FXbT1j4)
(https://i.ibb.co/6W6RRtN/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6W6RRtN)
Biscuits are arranged in staggered position because I want them to nest & cook together for softer edges. For,crispy biscuits, I would keep them well separated. Then I gently flatten them with my fingers to approx 1/2" thick to make them larger, approx 3" in diameter. (This flattening is typical to do with yeast dough sandwich buns, so,they aren't just super balls..). Uniform thickness means uniform bake. Dust the tops with remaining flour and place in HOT 500F oven.
(https://i.ibb.co/kySRPwR/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kySRPwR)
My wife says "aren't you going to take pics and tell them about the rest of breakfast?"
On the stovetop are hash browns. After turning on the oven and beforei start the biscuits- Three medium potatoes, large grated on the old flat cheese grater like typical pizza cheese. Grate into bowl (actually used this biscuit bowl before doing biscuits). Add a little salt. Mix and let rest for a couple minutes. Medium-medium high heat burner with cast iron skillet and a little left over vegetable oil. Potatoes oxidize and turn brown. No worries- they turn back to proper white color as they cook. Squeeze out excess water. Layer squeezed grated potatoes into pan. Long, slow even sizzle. Adjust heat (usually down) to avoid burning. Add a little extra oil around edges of needed. Turn once or twice after initial browning. They should hold together but will still be a challenge to turn in one piece. If they stick like crazy, they aren't browned/caramelized yet. Slow cook and even sizzle makes great hash browns. Fast cook high heat burns them.
Next to the hash browns is some leftover ham, not proper country ham but our favorite Cade's Cove ham from Lenoir City, TN-
(https://i.ibb.co/3rx2ntr/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3rx2ntr)
Beat a few eggs (4). When ham is done, make eggs for biscuits. 8-9 pieces
(https://i.ibb.co/PYm1jgB/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PYm1jgB)
If you're busy at the stovetop while something is in the oven instead of being far away from the stove, it's easier to keep track of what's happening. Looks like biscuits are ready. If undercooked, they fall apart. (Wet, soft) if overcooked, they go from brittle and shatter to hard. These are great moderate gold showing through raw flour on top-
(https://i.ibb.co/TLc0JRp/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TLc0JRp)
Add a pat of margarine to each to flavor and limit moisture loss. I use unsalted, but using salted butter/margarine gives more flavor more quickly when eaten because salt is left on surface to be tasted. As it melts, the true color is better revealed.
(https://i.ibb.co/0mFVmgN/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0mFVmgN)
(https://i.ibb.co/GxwGJBg/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GxwGJBg)
Time to eat. Happy daughter. Happy wife. Life could be a lot worse.
(https://i.ibb.co/P9QMMjy/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P9QMMjy)
(https://i.ibb.co/TghFF3z/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TghFF3z)
That's enough editing.... Time to finish my last biscuit and try to get some paying work done. Hope this helps with your biscuit (and dumpling) dough adventures.
I made a new mistake this morning. It was instructive and good to add to this biscuit lesson.
The Self Rising flour canister was almost empty, so I grabbed a new bag (right brand but still in the grocery bag) of flour, filled the canister and made up the dough with approx 2 3/4 cups. This dough needed a little more buttermilk to come together. I finished the dough, which was a little heavier than usual, and cut it into 8 biscuits instead of the 9-10 I was expecting. Put the biscuits into a 500F oven and made bacon and eggs.
When I checked in 10-12 min, The biscuits didn't have any oven spring. All were just as flat as when I made them up & placed into the oven. Not cool. Turned oven off, reset temp and turned it on again while hoping the oven was ok. A couple minutes later, the tops were starting to brown but no leavening. In fact, the bottoms were hard, tops were starting to brown and a central band of raw dough was visible on the edges of many of the biscuits. Not cool.
A quick review of what might be wrong turned up the flour. With grocery store inventory sketchy at this time, the branded bag I used was All Purpose instead of the brand of AP we usually buy. I didn't pay attention and made a mistake. Glad it was just breakfast for us.....
We did have another bag of SR on hand, so I made up a new batch with the right ingredients & same quantities. All went as normal. Only the normal amount of buttermilk was needed to produce a good dough mass. The dough was noticeably lighter and more delicate to handle. This initial leavening extended the dough. The same 2 3/4 cups of flour produced 10 biscuits as normal. They baked properly and came out very well. Very cool.
Two pics for comparison-
General side by side pans, showing the difference in leavening and biscuit count-
(https://i.ibb.co/zWg5ww3/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zWg5ww3)
The raw band in center of unleavened AP biscuits is visible in biscuit on the right-
(https://i.ibb.co/60tycww/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/60tycww)
I have posted that it's ok to make your own SR flour using AP and proper measurement of baking powder. It is but there are drawbacks I didn't mention that may be more obvious with this example. You'll find that some manufacturer-blended SR flour has a lower protein level than AP flour, between AP and Pastry Flour, to allow the baking powder to more effectively leaven tender products. Some pastry chefs will blend their flour like this, some don't. I've done lessons making basic dough from AP and Bread (and, when available, pastry and high gluten) flours to demonstrate the difference in gluten potential. Since SR flour is typically not used for bread or pizza dough, it wasn't part of those lessons. It should have been...
Doing a quick batch of each this morning while on autopilot, the difference between AP and SR was very obvious. The extra liquid required is usually a clue that this flour was different. The dough did demonstrate a stronger gluten behavior, usually seen as elasticity & a tendency to spring back instead of complying when shaped. This was confirmed by the nearly total lack of leavening from water in both buttermilk and the margarine used in the dough.
In the end- if you're not happy with your biscuits after making your own SR flour from AP + baking powder, consider purchasing premixed SR Flour before accepting defeat. The same recipe and technique may produce much different results. This is why chefs are often inflexible and anal about the ingredients, products and equipment they use. Small changes can yield significantly different results, so any changes need to be proofed before they can be trusted in service.
-
I made a new mistake this morning. It was instructive and good to add to this biscuit lesson.
In the end- if you're not happy with your biscuits after making your own SR flour from AP + baking powder, consider purchasing premixed SR Flour before accepting defeat. The same recipe and technique may produce much different results. This is why chefs are often inflexible and anal about the ingredients, products and equipment they use. Small changes can yield significantly different results, so any changes need to be proofed before they can be trusted in service.
Tks for keeping it real and taking the time to share your experience and insight on the successes and failures.
I have a whole new appreciation for the different bags of flour on the shelves at the stores.
I look forward to the next time I'm out shopping to check out what they're actually selling, lol.
Tks
Kelly