Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: guzzighost on April 11, 2020, 06:06:56 PM
-
Hello fellow patrons !
First of all I hope and wish all of us are safe and doing well in this challenging time.
Secondly, I am new to this group so if my questions are redundant due to my ignorance of past threads, please excuse me.
I ride a 2010 V7 Cafe Classic with stock parts (2 TB, 15 RC ECU). I am getting Agostini slip ons next week (very excited :grin:).
I am thinking about doing an ECU re-map after the putting the new exhausts.
It looks like beetle offers a 'Lambda-off-no-pop' map for my bike configuration. I am looking for feedbacks from folks who have used this map on their V7 and what kind of benefits/issues have they noticed.
Current drive-ability experience (No major issues) -
.3-4 mins wait before taking off after a cold start
.Popping on decel
.Mildly reluctant throttle response. Initial pull away torque could be better
.Minor gas smell from exhaust fumes on idle
.Overall vibrations from bike resulting in fatigue. Feel like hitting the bed after a 80-100 mile run. (maybe typical of Guzzis ?)
Any experience related to the use of this beetlemap will really help me. I didnt find a lot of threads reflecting the results for V7 2TB 15RC.
-
.Overall vibrations from bike resulting in fatigue. Feel like hitting the bed after a 80-100 mile run. (maybe typical of Guzzis ?)
Can't help with your other questions but your fatigue thing bewilders me. I have 400+ mile day rides on my Breva and have never even had to stand on the pegs. Even now with an auto immune problem that renders my fingers numb I have still done 300 mile trips with a 1/2 hour break in the middle. I think your V7 Classic is a very similar riding position to the Breva and it is the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden. What I have done is put a sheepskin on the seat; even the almost bald one did about 15 years and I have only just changed it a year or so ago as I have semi detached my left hamstring, and sitting on the tear made it misbehave somewhat. Made a huge difference.
Your fatigue has me stumped.
-
1. Beatle's map for the 15RC works fine. I found the stock map worked fine with different exhausts, too - either a hard reset, or a TPS & auto learning re-set, plus a few hundred Kilometers & it adjusts. I put in Beetle's map in the V7C around about the time my lambda broke a wire, then with the fatter Agostini headers & the Ago mufflers, there is almost no popping, and what is there you have to struggle to hear as its such a low bass note. As it costs only for the cable & donation (convenient to have anyway), I'd recommend you do it.
2. The 3-4 min wait - check & clean the high idle lever, and the cable, especially at the bottom RHS of the throttle body. It's getting a bit long in the tooth, a new one might work better. Make sure is all works freely, sometimes it catches against the breather hoses. Also see (4).
3. Popping on decel - as well as the map, you must also ensure the exhaust gaskets are good, and the headers are on tight - not letting air leak out. All the other places need checking for leaks - the clamps, the lambda, the rubber manifolds.
4. Mildly reluctant throttle response - not normal, check (or renew) the throttle cables, any pay attention to the movement of that disc shaped bit the lower ends of the cables go into. When OK, then -
4.b. Re-set the tappets and do a throttle body balance. (Also requires a TPS reset, and auto learning reset). Improves the throttle response, improves fuel economy, improves running. Probably also fix 5. That smell of fuel.
5. Fuel smell on idle - sounds like unburnt fuel - ECU playing silly buggers, perhaps. Happens often on the 1TB because the ECU is responsible for the choke & it over-fuels. Not so much on the 2TB, 'though you may get some with the use of a working fast idle lever. Otherwise, a throttle body balance is your friend.
6. Vibrations causing long distance fatigue - shouldn't happen. Sounds like something might be loose, perhaps. Check all the nuts and bolts, especially those on the frame (some are hard to get to, even see). I know where they are, I've had the bike apart - you can get an idea by double checking the spare parts manual. Also the footpegs, pillion pegs (because the mufflers hang off them), the brake caliper bolts and the rotor bolts, the rear shock bolts, and anything else you can find to pass a spanner over. Otherwise, I've found the solo seat more comfortable than the stock dual seat, and there are available plusher versions of both, should you have the money spare. I also regularly do 300-400 mile days in comfort, and have done 550 mile days. I will admit, in the early days, and before I had the pegs & bars set up properly, I did struggle to do 200 miles without stopping. Probably it takes some miles to get properly road-conditioned.
(https://i.ibb.co/mSPmhn3/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSPmhn3)
(https://i.ibb.co/6Wmt7S9/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Wmt7S9)
(https://i.ibb.co/jGqVvL2/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jGqVvL2)
-
The reason you won't find much on Beetle's map for the 15RC is that mostly it is not needed - Guzzi did a very good job on that one. That's also why Beetle's 15RC map is free, he says he.did so little to it, he couldn't justify charging for it, or something to that effect. I took the broken lamba out, replaced it with a sump plug & Beetle's map and everything runs just fine.
-
Thread drift here (apologies), but.... Malik: what rack is that in the photos you posted? And, especially, details on the pannier racks? Looks like a nice set up.
-
The reason you won't find much on Beetle's map for the 15RC is that mostly it is not needed - Guzzi did a very good job on that one. That's also why Beetle's 15RC map is free, he says he.did so little to it, he couldn't justify charging for it, or something to that effect. I took the broken lamba out, replaced it with a sump plug & Beetle's map and everything runs just fine.
Thanks so much Malik. Really useful insights :thumb:
-
I can’t comment on the engine as mine is a 1TB V7 Mk I and with lambdas removed runs great, but as regards comfort I found my Stone improved after fitting MG V7 racer footpegs. The standard footpegs I found to be too far forwards which meant too much weight on my bum. And that is with standard Stone handlebars.
The later versions of the V7 had lower footrests which might be better for taller pilots?
AndB
-
Thread drift here (apologies), but.... Malik: what rack is that in the photos you posted? And, especially, details on the pannier racks? Looks like a nice set up.
The rear luggage rack is OEM, very robust, Guzzi later brought out a small rack which wasn't much good, this one bolts on in four places. Aftermarket, not particularly cheap, but still occasionally available. The pannier rack was made up by a mare who had the time, the skills & and a pipe bender. 12mm (I think) stainless rod & 4 bits of stainless plate. (Only $50 - in Pacific Pesos - at the time). The OEM rack has the mounting points for the side racks built in. Works well, looks good.
Should you want more details &/or photos, that could be arranged - that bike is all coming apart in the near future - needs a new clutch again.
-
As Andy says, I found the Racer rear sets made a positive difference. It went like this:-
The V7C came with the windscreen, which I found put the wind right at the visor. With the standard pegs & bars, even with the screen, at the end of a long riding day, I would have muscle pain between the the spine & shoulder blade. I removed the screen - no more wind at the visor, but I'd get body buffeting at speed. So I tried out the rear sets. Better, that slight forward lean countered the buffeting. Then I was fortunate enough to pick up the 1100 Sport in NZ. Found it to be supremely comfortable for me. When I got back home, I installed the laverda style multi-adjustable handlebars. To get the correct positioning, I would set the bars (& pegs), then ride 500km (310 miles) to see what they were like at day's end, tweak & do it again. And again. Did this a few times, until I got it right. Although not as radical a riding position as the Sport, it now works fine - no buffeting & no back/neck pain. As a bonus, because of the slight change in riding position, the dual seat became more comfortable as well. Experiment, find what works for you.
-
4.b. Re-set the tappets and do a throttle body balance. (Also requires a TPS reset, and auto learning reset). Improves the throttle response, improves fuel economy, improves running. Probably also fix 5. That smell of fuel.
(https://i.ibb.co/mSPmhn3/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSPmhn3)
(https://i.ibb.co/6Wmt7S9/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Wmt7S9)
(https://i.ibb.co/jGqVvL2/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jGqVvL2)
[/quote]
Is there a tutorial you can point me to for balancing the throttle bodies ?
-
In the Files Section in Moto-Guzzi-750@groups.io there's the file - Breva 750 How To Throttle Synchronisation. I use that, same motor. Download it & print it out when needed. To control the rpm, I've found Guzzidiag to be more accurate than the analogue tachometer & the GoCruise throttle lock holds the throttle on. I use a set of vacuum gauges, and the manifold adapters I got from my local Guzzi dealer, more or less standard. I found tensioning clips on the hoses can steady the oscillation of the gauge needles, so you can get a steadier reading.
-
In the Files Section in Moto-Guzzi-750@groups.io there's the file - Breva 750 How To Throttle Synchronisation. I use that, same motor. Download it & print it out when needed. To control the rpm, I've found Guzzidiag to be more accurate than the analogue tachometer & the GoCruise throttle lock holds the throttle on. I use a set of vacuum gauges, and the manifold adapters I got from my local Guzzi dealer, more or less standard. I found tensioning clips on the hoses can steady the oscillation of the gauge needles, so you can get a steadier reading.
This is fantastic. Thankyou.
What kind of rearsets are you using on your classic, are those sato racing ?
-
The rear sets I normally have mounted are those from the Racer (back in the day you could get the kit from Guzzi, but this has since been discontinued). Those gold ones are Agostini's - only had them on for a short time while I had the broken levers welded. The Agostini's are virtually the same, except that the footpegs are rigid, not foldable, and come in silver, black or gold.
(https://i.ibb.co/6RHPvYj/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6RHPvYj)
(https://i.ibb.co/4RR6xfc/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RR6xfc)
-
1. Beatle's map for the 15RC works fine. I found the stock map worked fine with different exhausts, too - either a hard reset, or a TPS & auto learning re-set, plus a few hundred Kilometers & it adjusts. I put in Beetle's map in the V7C around about the time my lambda broke a wire, then with the fatter Agostini headers & the Ago mufflers, there is almost no popping, and what is there you have to struggle to hear as its such a low bass note. As it costs only for the cable & donation (convenient to have anyway), I'd recommend you do it.
2. The 3-4 min wait - check & clean the high idle lever, and the cable, especially at the bottom RHS of the throttle body. It's getting a bit long in the tooth, a new one might work better. Make sure is all works freely, sometimes it catches against the breather hoses. Also see (4).
3. Popping on decel - as well as the map, you must also ensure the exhaust gaskets are good, and the headers are on tight - not letting air leak out. All the other places need checking for leaks - the clamps, the lambda, the rubber manifolds.
4. Mildly reluctant throttle response - not normal, check (or renew) the throttle cables, any pay attention to the movement of that disc shaped bit the lower ends of the cables go into. When OK, then -
4.b. Re-set the tappets and do a throttle body balance. (Also requires a TPS reset, and auto learning reset). Improves the throttle response, improves fuel economy, improves running. Probably also fix 5. That smell of fuel.
5. Fuel smell on idle - sounds like unburnt fuel - ECU playing silly buggers, perhaps. Happens often on the 1TB because the ECU is responsible for the choke & it over-fuels. Not so much on the 2TB, 'though you may get some with the use of a working fast idle lever. Otherwise, a throttle body balance is your friend.
6. Vibrations causing long distance fatigue - shouldn't happen. Sounds like something might be loose, perhaps. Check all the nuts and bolts, especially those on the frame (some are hard to get to, even see). I know where they are, I've had the bike apart - you can get an idea by double checking the spare parts manual. Also the footpegs, pillion pegs (because the mufflers hang off them), the brake caliper bolts and the rotor bolts, the rear shock bolts, and anything else you can find to pass a spanner over. Otherwise, I've found the solo seat more comfortable than the stock dual seat, and there are available plusher versions of both, should you have the money spare. I also regularly do 300-400 mile days in comfort, and have done 550 mile days. I will admit, in the early days, and before I had the pegs & bars set up properly, I did struggle to do 200 miles without stopping. Probably it takes some miles to get properly road-conditioned.
(https://i.ibb.co/mSPmhn3/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSPmhn3)
(https://i.ibb.co/6Wmt7S9/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Wmt7S9)
(https://i.ibb.co/jGqVvL2/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jGqVvL2)
Update - I got the Agos. Love the sound. Ordered vaccum gauge and other tools online to adjust valve clearance and sync throttle bodies. Looking forward to service the bike.
Uploading a video of bike at idle after cold start (7-10 mins running). Let me know if the bike sounds normal or if you guys notice any strange noises. When I get close to the heads, esp the right side, I hear more clacking or tapping. Loose tappets perhaps? But it may be me overthinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAabcRCQvwc&feature=youtu.be
-
Sounds pretty normal, given the unrealistic sound recording of videos. Do the tappets again, especially on the RHS (.010mm inlet, .015 exhaust) and try it again. There's often some kind of rattling, but finding the actual source can be difficult. Tighten the horns, but do note those those originals can get loose in their centres and rattle. Check that the headlight isn't rattling in it's bucket. The spot welds on the inner sleeves of my original pipes came loose & causes another rattle & loose exhaust clamps don't help either (a foot on the header can mute these rattles). Some clutch system/gearbox rattles can be identified by pulling the clutch in while idling. On mine, there always seems to be rattles coming perhaps from the cam (?). Just saying. For sure these are not a Japanese in-line four.