Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: lucian on May 09, 2020, 09:48:01 AM
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Yeah, I did it :violent1: I'll take my whippin here willingly. I actually over torqued it a couple of oil changes ago . Not surprising given the fact the M10 plug take a 17mm wrench. Anyhow , at the time I discovered that there are additional threads in the pan beyond the length of the original drain plug. Easy fix, went to the hardware store and got a M10 bolt and cut it to the full depth of the drain hole. It has worked just fine but I really want to have the original plug with the magnet. I have thought about drilling my homemade plug and installing a magnet but instead I am opting to do a Timesert repair to the pan. I like the idea of having the steel drain plug threading into a steel insert instead of directly into aluminum.
I have dropped several guzzi sumps before with little complications however it looks like you may have to drop the frame cradle on this beast to remove the sump. since it is snowing here today i thought I would get to it.
Any advise appreciated greatly. Timesert suggest only using oil to install but I am thinking red locktight would be the way to go here. I will get a few pics of the process for those who may find themselves in a similar situation. Hope you all have a good weekend!
(https://i.ibb.co/tMtkpsG/IMG-3217.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tMtkpsG)
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Check this out. You are not the first...
https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/sump-bolt-stripped-damn-blast-and-bugga.20134/page-2#post-158122
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Dave,
The same thing happened to me, on my V7 750. As you said, the nut hex head is much too large for the bolt body, so it's easy to use too much force. I Helicoiled mine, and it's good now. I also bought an aftermarket drain bolt, made of aluminum w a magnet, and a smaller head. So it won't happen again!
W the V7 I was able to drop the sump directly. I hope you can do the same w the bigger engine.
Joe
P.S. I might have used loctite on my insert too.
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A Timesert is definitely the way to go. After that, never use a torque wrench on a drain plug again. The torque rating is generally for dry threads which the drain hole isn’t. The number of people who strip the pan with a drain plug using a torque wrench is very, very high.
As a general rule of thumb: those who defend the use of a torque wrench on a drain plug, shouldn’t be wrenching on the bike. Period.
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Dang Dave what a bad luck thing to happen. Thanks for the heads up as you know my luck with my 1400 :(
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Late lunch break, all stripped down and ready to install Timesert repair. Lots of stuff needs to come off the 1400 to get the sump off. Oil cooler /fan , exhaust, floorboards , rear brake cylinder, lower frame and lots of minucia. Funny thing is the more iron you take off the better the bike looks. My opinion only. Found a spare oil filter, now hoping I can find the sump gasket I ordered a year ago.
:huh:
(https://i.ibb.co/K2DN7S2/IMG-3224.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K2DN7S2)
(https://i.ibb.co/QDbG9R5/IMG-3226.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QDbG9R5)
my homemade plug and whats left of the old threads
(https://i.ibb.co/MRfYGz8/IMG-3229.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MRfYGz8)
ready for drilling
(https://i.ibb.co/rb1pvqK/IMG-3231.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rb1pvqK)
(https://i.ibb.co/rGxvQ44/IMG-3232.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rGxvQ44)
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In case anyone reads this thread later, trying to solve the same problem: Time-Sert makes a shorter version of the correct size/pitch insert marketed for oil pans. They don't protrude up into the sump, thus leaving a little puddle of oil that can't drain. I used one to repair the transmission drain on my Stelvio that had been cross-threaded by whoever did the service before I bought it, and the depth was just about perfect. Jim stocks them at Hamlin Cycles because enough people make this mistake. I opted for red Loctite on the time-sert even though the manufacturer says it's not necessary.
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Timesert job finished, all went well , just a lot of time getting to it and putting things all back together. Very happy with the result. The steel insert is very solid once installed and will have a much better service life than aluminum threads . as AZ mentioned the insert does protrude to the inside of the sump slightly however I don't see it leaving any puddle inside the pan as the hole is bored so low that the insert actually sits below the bottom surface of the sump slightly. thus you must be very cautious when drilling, tapping and installing the insert as the hole bottoms out into some of the sump bottom thickness, basically a shoulder on the bottom of the hole. shorter inserts are available but not in the M10 size which is the original plug size.
here is the basics of installing one. In this case the sump needed to be removed which is always a best practice to facilitate accurate installation and to prevent any swarf from getting in your pan. The kit comes with everything needed , however in this case the insallation tool is too long and would bottom out in the hole long before it could seat the insert. A few nuts stacked over the tool as spacers served to shorten it up and worked fine.
Be sure to drill and tap squarely to the hole and make sure to check your progress and proceed slowly. Before installing the insert check the hole depth to the shoulder at the bottom to make sure there is adequate clearance for the insert to fully seat. Finally add a couple of drops of oil to the insert threads , and I added a little red locktight just beneath the inserts top shoulder and wound it home. I'm glad to have this one over with and have the original plug with the magnet back in. You would think aluminum pans would come with these in them from the get go!
(https://i.ibb.co/qCbdJkM/IMG-3233.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qCbdJkM) (https://i.ibb.co/CMB83TQ/IMG-3236.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CMB83TQ) (https://i.ibb.co/W5vGMNp/IMG-3237.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W5vGMNp) (https://i.ibb.co/Bt0L1x8/IMG-3243.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Bt0L1x8) (https://i.ibb.co/kXMMqwf/IMG-3244.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kXMMqwf) (https://i.ibb.co/tPwHLdc/IMG-3246.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tPwHLdc) (https://i.ibb.co/cT0Yndn/IMG-3248.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cT0Yndn) (https://i.ibb.co/hZb7x4t/IMG-3250.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hZb7x4t) (https://i.ibb.co/fqFsWVC/IMG-3251.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fqFsWVC) (https://i.ibb.co/5cHrVGR/IMG-3252.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5cHrVGR)
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Great documentation to a job well done, thank you.
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Dave,
Glad you got it done. Don't forget my suggestion to get an aftermarket aluminum drain plug with a smaller hex head. That way you'll use a smaller wrench w less force, and the alum plug may strip before the sump threads.
See you on the road, friend,
Joe
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Thanks Joe, that's a great suggestion, I think i found one in M10 1.5 for a Kawi. Don't need to go through that drill again !
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Billet-Aluminum-Magnetic-Oil-Drain-Plug-For-M10x1-5-Kawasaki-KX125-KX250-KX500-/182796884636
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Excellent documentation,and write up, Lucian. Thanks for posting this.
Rick.
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Dave,
The same thing happened to me, on my V7 750. As you said, the nut hex head is much too large for the bolt body, so it's easy to use too much force. I Helicoiled mine, and it's good now. I also bought an aftermarket drain bolt, made of aluminum w a magnet, and a smaller head. So it won't happen again!
W the V7 I was able to drop the sump directly. I hope you can do the same w the bigger engine.
Joe
P.S. I might have used loctite on my insert too.
The size of the hex has no bearing on the torque you’re applying.
It’s solely a function of the length of the handle and the perpendicular force vector...(how hard you pulled..)
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So,,,,,,,,,,, size doesn't matter? :shocked:
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Yeah, I did it :violent1: I'll take my whippin here willingly.
Is your name "Dave"?
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^^ Of course "Huzo" is correct , but who grabs a large wrench and then pulls from half way down the handle ? :wink:, Peter
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Is your name "Dave"?
Affirmative. Lucian's my middle name. I've been called many others.
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My transmission drain plug got stripped out on my 1400 T during a dealer service, and never got repaired. No way to get at it without removing the tranny. Just wrote on the side of the case, DO NOT TORQUE!!! So now the transmission oil has to be sucked out the fill hole. What a pain in the arse!!!
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Is your name "Dave"?
That’s Mr Dave, unless you’re friends😂😂😂
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My transmission drain plug got stripped out on my 1400 T during a dealer service, and never got repaired. No way to get at it without removing the tranny. Just wrote on the side of the case, DO NOT TORQUE!!! So now the transmission oil has to be sucked out the fill hole. What a pain in the arse!!!
I see where that's a real problem for the transmission drain. There's no sump pan to drop. Actually I've wondered why so many motorcycles maintenance schedules require annual trans oil changes. In automobiles that's usually done after 60k miles and the like.
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I see where that's a real problem for the transmission drain. There's no sump pan to drop. Actually I've wondered why so many motorcycles maintenance schedules require annual trans oil changes. In automobiles that's usually done after 60k miles and the like.
I thought is was in there for the life of the motorcycle 😂😂😂