Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: amamet on May 12, 2020, 11:40:38 AM
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anyone use a 1/4 torque on our bikes? looking at a snap-on package deal but not sure its a deal or not since I don't see the use for such a small torque wrench. anything that requires inch pounds on guzzis seem to be better off by feel, right? I have a 3/8" digital snap-on that I used exclusively to rebuild the lemans, I could use the 1/2" wrench though.
-Allen
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99% of the time I do not use a torque wrench when wrenching on things. Only critical fasteners where equal torque needs applied like head bolts. While every fastener does have torque not ever fastener needs torqued to spec.
To me in the world of garage mechanics there is no need for a 1/4" torque wrench.
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When installing my tooth implant the dentist used a tiny torque wrench. I asked and I think he told me 8 inch pounds. How is a 1/4" wrench calibrated?
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I’m the opposite. I have (I think) five torque wrenches, including one that reads in inch pounds. I use the inch-pound wrench on many of the 6mm bolts on Guzzi sumps and engine covers.
It’s easy enough to see whether you have the feel of a torque wrench. Tighten the sump bolts by feel, then go back and check with the torque wrench. Think you’ll hit 72 inch pounds on all 14? No way.
It’s probably overkill, but I haven’t had a leaking sump in forever.
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I've 3 torque wrenches, including a 5-20NM ¼" drive.
Don't use it a lot obviously, but virtually every fastener has a torque setting, so why wouldn't you.
Maybe it's my 40 years in aviation engineering.
It's calibrated like any other torque wrench, on a torque analyser.
I bought 2 of my 3 on ebay, checked them on an analyser at work and found them almost spot on through their ranges.
¼" drive is a Norbar.
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A torque wrench is of no value other than to destroy stuff unless it is calibrated by (you) and Every day. That said I use a torque wrench often and just make sure it is calibrated. A vise, a simple accurate fish weighing scale and a strong bit of string and a tape measure are all that is required.
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+1 On what dxhall has said. Anytime you put a screw into aluminum is a good time to use a torque wrench, especially gasketted surfaces.
It may be the primary reason all those British sumps leaked; especially when re-using gaskets. R3~
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I have a 1/4" drive torque wrench that goes to 150 inch pounds. It got used recently on my Monster. Ducati wants the oil filter torqued to 110 in/lbs. Well, they said 10 newton/meters I had to do the conversion... The K+N filter I bought has a nut on the top. Nice feature.
Any engineer will tell you that Turn of Nut is a more accurate way to stretch a bolt to the right torque. We used to do it on structural steel until they came out with snap torque bolts. Jes' sayin'.
Larry
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I am not as experience as some of folks here regarding to the feel...and yes, I can even strip a plastic bolt.
So I opted for torque wrench method. I have two 1/4" drive and one 3/8". Trying to somehow squeeze a 1/2" into my tool box without the wife noticing it :P
But yes, every tool has its limitation and life...you don't take care of it, it will not take care of you.
On top of that, a man can never have too many tools :thumb:
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When I worked for Rockwell International (Allen Bradley) another division had developed some sort of computerized torque wrench that was linked to a DEC PDP-8 or 11 (long time back, huh?) As I recall, what it was intended to do was to somehow eliminate the friction coefficient between, say, cylinder head bolts and their mating surface. The goal was to measure pure torque, not torque plus friction as the bolt head was turned and rubbing the cylinder head. Of course, this has been a long time ago, so I could be way off base on this. Anyone have thoughts on this?
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i have one but rarely - i mean rarely - use it. the last time i used it was to torque down one of the bolts that holds a waterjet nozzle collar in place. i have never used it on the t3 build.
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My arm is calibrated.
Gutentite...but that only works on BMWs. :boozing:
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As was mentioned earlier , the really critical torques use a set torque and then an angle (usually 90 degrees ).
Yamaha R1 main bore bolts , HD head bolts , chevette head bolts, ETC , . 1/4" torque wrench was only used during
Yamaha R1 warrenty with their aluminum cover fasteners (aluminum 1 time use fasteners) , kinda overkill , but it was
their direction and they were paying . Peter
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Tighten t'ill she strips then add 3 drops of lock tight and ride.
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^ :grin: , or as my brother would say : tighten her up 'til she strips and back her off a half" , Peter
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1/4" torque wrench: checking / retorquing valve body cap-screws (when pan is dropped on an A/T to clean pan, magnet(s), fit new fIlter and new ATF). Also, on pan screws (into aluminum).
I know, I know.... this is not a Guzzi.
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I have a 1/4" drive torque wrench that goes to 150 inch pounds. It got used recently on my Monster. Ducati wants the oil filter torqued to 110 in/lbs. Well, they said 10 newton/meters I had to do the conversion... The K+N filter I bought has a nut on the top. Nice feature.
Any engineer will tell you that Turn of Nut is a more accurate way to stretch a bolt to the right torque. We used to do it on structural steel until they came out with snap torque bolts. Jes' sayin'.
Larry
The 'nut' on the top of K&N oil filters is for removal only, not fitment. But you knew that :wink:
But...if it sits in a recess like my wife's 696 I guess you've no choice but to use the 'nut' to do it up too.
I'm seem to remember K&N's policy on fit is wind it on til the seal touches, then an extra ¼ turn.
With a once only use on removal, you need to be careful. I've heard of instances where K&Ns have leaked.
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I do like the 1/4 inch torque wrench for the sump bolts and valve covers too. I have an old one and a cheap harbor freight one that cost around 10 bucks on sale. Cheaper than the repair kit, when you strip those little suckers.
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The 'nut' on the top of K&N oil filters is for removal only, not fitment. But you knew that :wink:
But...if it sits in a recess like my wife's 696 I guess you've no choice but to use the 'nut' to do it up too.
I'm seem to remember K&N's policy on fit is wind it on til the seal touches, then an extra ¼ turn.
With a once only use on removal, you need to be careful. I've heard of instances where K&Ns have leaked.
Actually, I didn't know that. Yes, the filter is in a pocket and my strap wrench would not get in there and do the job. Used the old school removal technique of drilling a 1/4" hole through both sides of the old filter and sticking a Philips screwdriver in the holes to twist the old one off. I found the torque value printed on the factory Ducati oil filter that was on the bike. Using the torque wrench, it wound on the new filter quite a bit more than touch plus a 1/4 turn.
Be well,
Larry
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anyone use a 1/4 torque wrench.
-Allen
Yes. I have a inch-pound torque wrench with a 1/4" drive. I also have a foot-pound torque wrench with a 1/2" drive. I find that I can cover any tightening torque requirements that I have using one of those two.
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Yep, I have a 1/4” torque wrench and it does come in handy now and again.
I encourage people new to wrenching to use torque wrench’s as I come in contact with
a lot of bikes that people over torque bolts as if every bolt is holding a bike together.
Yes, some bolt torques are more important then others.
Another problem is torque wrench calibration. torque wrench will lose their calibration over
time causing over or under torque values.
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After snapping the drain plug on my new 1981 Yamaha, a 1/4" torque wrench was my next purchase. I have 1/4, 3/8, 1/2. They all have a place to be used.
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I hardly ever use a torque wrench except for important fasteners like head bolts. I have beam type torque wrenches which never go out of calibration unless majorily abused.
kk
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+1 On what dxhall has said. Anytime you put a screw into aluminum is a good time to use a torque wrench, especially gasketted surfaces.
It may be the primary reason all those British sumps leaked; especially when re-using gaskets. R3~
That is so true! aluminum! aluminum! aluminum! becarful!
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And of course when torquing those sump screws they and the threaded holes in the case have all been
cleaned of any traces of oil ? :evil:, Peter
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I doubt you need it for a Guzzi.
I have one for my Moto Morinis. The heads are tightened a lot less than on a Guzzi (not entirely certain, but I think ~25-27Nm). That's right in the middle of my 1/4" torque wrench. For Guzzi and most other bikes, I use a 3/8" torque wrench, where the values are again somewhere in the middle. I don't think they're as exact at the extremes of the scale. Anyway, I generally only tighten cylinder head studs and axle nuts or screws with one. Otherwise I do everything by hand, with a much shorter leverage.
Also, it's good to keep in mind that all torque settings are for dry threads and nut and screw surfaces, unless stated otherwise (usually for cylinder heads, oiled threads are required). Torque gets higher due to friction. If your threads are not dry, your torque wrench is completely inaccurate. At work we made a test once, screwed down 10 times lubed threads and nut and bolt head and flange, and 10 times on completely dry parts. It was an M16 nut to 100Nm. The difference was a consistently 35-45% higher clamping force on lubed threads. That means the screw material or the threads need to withstand 35-45% higher internal forces! Of course varies a bit depending on the pitch and diameter (and even profile, imperial threads have a different angle...). Even the coating has an impact if you check out a standard for calculating required torque (e.g. I know you have them in the VDI standard, there's a different coefficient for zinc electroplated, zinc hot dip coated, black oxide coated, bare, oiled with various standard oils....). Overall, a value perscribed for an oiled thread is more accurate than for dry threads, because you rarely have completely dry threads if you rebuild something.
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I use them all the time on rifle scopes and mounts...
I prefer these as they are compact and handy: https://store.fixitsticks.com/
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Just purchased one
Generally I only use torque wrenches on critical stuff within the engine, head bolts, shaft nuts and the like, external stuff I just use feel
I purchased it specifically to tighten the belts on a HiCam engine
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well I ended up getting the set. I already had the 3/8" tech2fr100 drive so ill put that up for sale. snap-on tech1fr240, tech2fr100, tech3fr250. If I don't get back to work im going to go broke from buying stuff.
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I use them all the time on rifle scopes and mounts...
I prefer these as they are compact and handy: https://store.fixitsticks.com/
NICE............... .pricey but very nice little kit
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I have a 1/4, 3/8 & 1/2" drive torque wrenches and advocate their use. They are Snap-On, Proto and Precision Instruments brands. FWIW, I believe Precision Instruments makes TW's for Snap-On, they can be bought on ebay, etc. for a lot less than Snap-On money.
Anyway, getting back to the original post Re: 1/4" torque wrench uses? I use 1/4" drive TW on MG oil pan & valve cover hardware....ain't stripped out any of them yet!!