Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: AZRider on May 13, 2020, 02:54:24 AM
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I read a couple dozen prior red triangle threads and didn't see my problem.
So, 2016 Stelvio, 20k miles, owned since 17k about 4 months ago, warranty expired under previous owner. For the past month, I've occasionally had the bike suddenly cut out while riding, red triangle and SERVICE! on the dash. Pause a moment and restart and the red triangle disappears, all is well for a day or so. Third time it happened up the hill from my house and stayed on even after a restart so I got home on poor power and got into the dashboard menu, saw ECU code 25, Ignition coil 2 C.C. Gnd. Called Jim Hamlin and batted around ideas for a while (Once a Hamlin employee, always a friend). Didn't like the worst case of a dying ECU, so I decided to try other stuff first. Cleaned and dielectric greased the ground wire on both coils (if one needs it, the other is probably not far behind). Ran fine for two days, then did it again. Not a safe spot to be on the shoulder so I didn't try to get the code. When I got the last half mile to work, no stored code in the menu. Tried thinking in Italglish, maybe "coil ground" means the plug wire, since it does ground through the spark plug. Remembered that the PO had replaced spark plug caps, so I checked those. A bit loose, so I tightened them. 4 days no problems, then again it died a couple blocks before I got to work, but restarted and the triangle disappeared. Trimmed the end of the plug wire and reinstalled the plug cap, week and a half before it did it again. On my commute home, merging onto I-5 in downtown San Diego. Traffic is light due to -, so I didn't become a hood ornament. Again, unsafe place, no code saved by the time I got off the highway. That was today, and three days after I called Jim and said it's fixed, you can add this to your mental file of "odd things I've seen Guzzis do."
Additional note: I think it idles TERRIBLY compared to one of my 1100 Californias after Andy at Hamlin sets it up correctly. It seems to have an occasional low-RPM miss, and doesn't like to putt down the driveway at under 2k rpm, it threatens to stall and sometimes follows through on the threat. I think it's worse than a 1200 should be, but unlike all the 1200's I dealt with at Hamlin, this one is MINE, so I'm extra critical and maybe paranoid. At the 18K mark, I brought it to the local dealership to have another set of eyes look it over and see if it needed any map updates or other PADS tasks I can't do at home. GP Motorcycles checked the bike and says everything looks good and the throttle balance is spot on.
SO, before I dive into the options below, I'm looking for experience from the community. These are the options I've thought of and/or batted around with Jim:
*Simplest answer: Did see in another thread that Stelvios have been known to have plug wires pull loose at the coil end. I'll check that in the morning.
*I had ordered the cable for Guzzidiag almost a week ago, and LonElectric has shipped, but things are slow due to -. No telling when it'll arrive. Maybe it'll allow me to see saved errors, maybe they disappear from memory. I bought it when I thought I had the problem licked, just because I am PADS trained and figured I'd like to have the tool available.
*Jim said he's seen these coils go bad. $151 for a coil isn't too bad to fix this, but it isn't pocket change to just buy and see if that solves it.
*I am tempted to replace the entire spark plug wire, but Guzzi wants $104 apiece for them. See above comment. Maybe get some genuine NGK copper wire and see if that fixes it? MG Cycle sells it for just over a buck a foot, so postage and parts will be under $20. That IS pocket change.
*The manual says this error code is for the black ground wire from the ECU to the cage of the coil. I'll have to inspect the ECU end plug connector and test for resistance through the harness. Guzzi suggests rebuilding/replacing the wiring harness if anything looks sketchy.
*It would be easy as pie to run an extra ground from the coil cage to the chassis. I'm a Tonti-frame guy, so I have no aversion to extra ground wires. But the coil grounds to the ECU, so I'm not certain it's that simple.
*Give in and buy an ECU.
Thanks in advance,
Adam Z
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I do have a suggestion, but I'll qualify it first. Some time back on my '09 Stelvio, I experienced what you describe.I was never able to figure out a pattern but I was leaning in the direction of it happening when I was higher up in the rev band. (ie: accelerating on a merge ramp.) Red triangle, ECU disconnect both on the dash. After it happened a couple times, I decided to send the dash in to Carmo Electronics and have it checked and repaired if necessary. It was pretty much the end of the riding season so no biggie there. It came back "no trouble found" and there was a long period of time the dash sat in the house prior to me putting it back on the bike.
Whatever it was, it has never reoccurred. That was many miles and years ago now. My best guess is that there was a glitch that was being held onto as long as there was some power floating around in the system. For instance, a capacitor that held a charge or something. I really don't know for sure and that bothered me for a long time, but as I said, many miles and years have now passed so...
Someone, (maybe Pete), suggested disconnecting the battery, tying the battery cables together, turning on the key, and leaving the bike set like that for at least 24 hours. I honestly do not remember if I knew that at the time so I don't recall if I had tried that on not. Evidently, this procedure is supposed to bleed off any transient power that might still be in the system. (Allow any capacitors to fully discharge.)
I don't know if this will help or not, but I hope so. Basically, in my situation, the battery ended up being disconnected for most of the winter and my dash was out of the bike for that period.
John Henry
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I’ve gone through the red triangle and limp mode twice on a 1400. The only information I can offer is that both times when I hooked it up to the laptop
And ran a check through guzzidiag it threw the PO155 156 code, which was the TPS. The manual said replace TPS, which I ended up doing both times after about a month of BS attempting to chase a fix. So I’m of the opinion, through experience, that what ever the diagnostic test reveals through the code has been spot on in both my cases.
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I had very similar problems with my 2014 Norge. Odd stumble at low RPMs, occasional stall and triangle of death. Did the same loopdeloop with plug wires, changed caps, tightened, re did,etc.changed both coils to no permanent fix
I ended up with new plug wires and caps. Never another problem.
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If you think it might be the plug wires, simply measure them from plug cap to chassis.
If its a simple single plug head from the cap to chassis will be about 8,000 Ohms (Carl's 2008 shows a single plug)
It will be exactly the same on the other side. What you are looking for is an open circuit on one side telling you something has come apart.
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I'm not a fan of the carbon core resistor cable but if you have that and it's open try pushing a sewing pin into the suspect end to bridge any gap.
On dual plug heads you would measure from the outer cap to the inner cap
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Roy, I'm thinking he may have considered that. I only say that because he said he had spoken with Jim Hamlin. AKA Hamlin Cycle. I know Jim and I can tell you there two dealers that people wish they lived near, and he is one of them.
I might add that you have a very good suggestion. Especially if the bike still had the old plug caps.
John Henry