Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bad Chad on June 19, 2020, 02:59:39 PM
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A bias set of these, but made in Brazil, came a shod the Roamer. They only have 1.5k of road at this point, but I am not super impressed. Despite the name they don’t feel very sporty. They feel a little greasy at times, which is not exactly confidence inspiring. Have others experienced similar? If so , what do you like better?
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Michelin Pilot Activ :thumb:
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For the V7's (and the Enfields) I prefer the Avon AM26 Roadrider, but the Conti Road Attack 3 is getting some good press here. The V9 is a different bike & may very well prefer something else. Try to get opinions from other V9 people. The only sure way is to rack up the miles & keep experimenting.
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I have Sport Demons on the roadster, and am satisfied.
But then I'm not a very discerning rider.
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I used to really like SDs out in the Kalifornia Kanyons. Haven't had them for years, though. I'm a serious fan of Contis, now.
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Soon as my Demons wear out I'm going radial with Contis...LM2.
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I did a track day at COTA 3.5 miles 22 turns on my V7 III with sport demons and they worked great .I have a expert road racer license and was pushing it to the max passing some sport bikes in the tight sections I have no problems with SD .
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A bias set of these, but made in Brazil, came a shod the Roamer. They only have 1.5k of road at this point, but I am not super impressed. Despite the name they don’t feel very sporty. They feel a little greasy at times, which is not exactly confidence inspiring. Have others experienced similar? If so , what do you like better?
Yup, the Demons are awful. I'm running Pirelli Scorpion Trail IIs for the past 6,000 miles and I'm very happy with them, lightyears better than the Demons. I will try the Conti RA3 when these are done (those have fantastic reviews), which will be somewhere between 8,000 and 10,000 miles based upon current wear.
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I did a track day at COTA 3.5 miles 22 turns on my V7 III with sport demons and they worked great .I have a expert road racer license and was pushing it to the max passing some sport bikes in the tight sections I have no problems with SD .
This ^^^ though I'm so far from an expert it's not funny!
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I did a track day at COTA 3.5 miles 22 turns on my V7 III with sport demons and they worked great .I have a expert road racer license and was pushing it to the max passing some sport bikes in the tight sections I have no problems with SD .
On perfectly smooth and dry pavement, when up to temps, I can see the Demons performing well, even very well as you describe. But on bumpy roads with poor pavement/a little dirt they are mediocre at best as their stiffness becomes the enemy of grip. In wet conditions they are downright scary, especially 2up and loaded down.
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I did remove the kick stand after 8 laps
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>snip< They feel a little greasy at times, which is not exactly confidence inspiring. Have others experienced similar? If so , what do you like better?
After 1K miles they still felt kinda greasy on my V7 III so I switched to Pirelli MT-60s (like the Rough) and haven't looked back.
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This is the only time I ever heard knobby tires make a street bike handle better on pavement .I guess the motogp and superbike teams should which to knobbys hahhahahahahahah !
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I have run several sets of the sport demons and never experienced a problem with them not sticking. Only issue I had was wearing out in 3000 miles.
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i have a set on the sporti and although i only have 500 or so miles on them i like them. i even put them on the k-bike. they are costy as hell but they feel grippy and i have never had a problem with them
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Re: Sport Demon tires?
« Reply #13 on: Today at 10:05:47 PM »
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I have run several sets of the sport demons and never experienced a problem with them not sticking. Only issue I had was wearing out in 3000 miles.
I'm with GroundHog on this one , My Roamer was done with the Sports Demon in 3k miles and the V-7II was done with its SD by 4k miles.
The Roamer has a Commander II in 140/90-16 now and on dry pavement it holds as good as the
150/80-16 Sports Demon ever did. I'm sure the Commander will run at least 18,000 miles on the rear too ! Maybe even more miles ... I got 22,000 miles on one of them running on a smaller bike. :smiley:
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I'm under the impression that tires installed at the factory are not quite the same as aftermarket tires of the same brand and model. The factory tires are supposed to be cheaper, possibly made in a third-world country with a thinner tread, and won't last as long as dealer-bought tires installed later. This implies that Mandello-installed Sport Demons are inferior to store-bought Sport Demons. I put a Sport Demon on the front of the Mille and it works well -- am considering it for the rear as the Shinko is wearing thin.
Has anyone else heard this?
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Has anyone else heard this?
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Testarossa , So how many miles has your Shinko severed ya and which one did ya get ?
Aren't all motorcycle tire made in places that don't have strict environmental standards ?
The Shinko 712 on my V7II works really well ! If Commander II's came in my size I'd run them .
So , the question is
"How many miles do you run in a year" ?
and
"Are you willing to use a 5-6 year old tire" ?
A Commander would be waisted on a bike that only get 2k miles a year ... you'd be on a 10 year old tire before ya got it wore out !
But
Running 15k miles a year , a 6k mile tire would just piss me off. :wink:
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I'm under the impression that tires installed at the factory are not quite the same as aftermarket tires of the same brand and model. The factory tires are supposed to be cheaper, possibly made in a third-world country with a thinner tread, and won't last as long as dealer-bought tires installed later. This implies that Mandello-installed Sport Demons are inferior to store-bought Sport Demons. I put a Sport Demon on the front of the Mille and it works well -- am considering it for the rear as the Shinko is wearing thin.
Has anyone else heard this?
Yes I have.
I'm having an old timer moment right now and can't remember his name, but the young lad that does the excellent videos for Fortnine did a video recently on this topic, I think the link for it might have been posted on wg over the winter,idk.
Apparently when bike manufacturers put out a call for tenders to the top name tire manufacturers, the winning tire supplier bids are built to a price point; as you say, usually the tread will be much thinner and sometimes the tire compound or manufacturing standards will be of a lower quality as well, trade secrets?.
It's unfortunate but the Sport Demons supplied stock as OEM "might" not only be thinner but of a different inferior compound or construction as well.
The differing opinions/experiences expressed above, vary widely, part of the reason may be that with Sport Demons supplied as OEM on a new bike vs replacements with the "same" tire may be comparing apples to oranges.
fwiw ymmv.
Kelly
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This is the only time I ever heard knobby tires make a street bike handle better on pavement .I guess the motogp and superbike teams should which to knobbys hahhahahahahahah !
I presume you're replying to my comment. The MT-60 is 1) hardly a knobby tire 2) if the MotoGP teams rode on gravel and dirt roads they'd probably use something like the MT-60, 3) yes, IMHO the MT-60 radial IS better than the bias, cheapo OEM tires and 4) if you had any sort of experience you'd understand that not everyone rides the same or has the same needs.
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I'm under the impression that tires installed at the factory are not quite the same as aftermarket tires of the same brand and model. The factory tires are supposed to be cheaper, possibly made in a third-world country with a thinner tread, and won't last as long as dealer-bought tires installed later. This implies that Mandello-installed Sport Demons are inferior to store-bought Sport Demons. I put a Sport Demon on the front of the Mille and it works well -- am considering it for the rear as the Shinko is wearing thin.
Has anyone else heard this?
Yes - there are several stories about OEM rubber being more about looks and cost than actual performance. FortNine recently did a credible job explaining this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv97i_-V7hA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv97i_-V7hA)
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So how many miles has your Shinko severed ya and which one did ya get ?
I've been using Shinko 712s on the 850T for years -- the last three rears have gone about 7500 miles each, the fronts do twice that.
When I got the Mille it had age-hardened Contis and I wanted to try Sport Demons but couldn't find one in stock (this was October '16) so I used the Shinko. It's going thin at 6000 miles, while the Sport Demon front has lost only a millimeter of rubber -- about 20% of tread depth. I see the Sport Demon rears are in stock now.
Has anyone actually measured the tread depth of Pirelli OEM vs aftermarket tires?
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Has anyone actually measured the tread depth of Pirelli OEM vs aftermarket tires?
oh, interesting question. i'd like to know that too.
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I presume you're replying to my comment. The MT-60 is 1) hardly a knobby tire 2) if the MotoGP teams rode on gravel and dirt roads they'd probably use something like the MT-60, 3) yes, IMHO the MT-60 radial IS better than the bias, cheapo OEM tires and 4) if you had any sort of experience you'd understand that not everyone rides the same or has the same needs.
I wonder why Moto Guzzi on their website calls the MT-60 tires on the V7 III Rough Knobbys ?
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I wonder why Moto Guzzi on their website calls the MT-60 tires on the V7 III Rough Knobbys ?
Marketing fluff. Compare the MT-60 to any dirt bike tire and they're nothing close to that definition of knobbies. The "knob" height is street depth at best and the bock size isn't really a knob either.
To me - the MT-60 is NOT a knobby like the DOT MT-21
MT-60
(https://i.ibb.co/1KqjJGy/mt60.png) (https://ibb.co/1KqjJGy)
MT-21
(https://i.ibb.co/0YtXjNj/pirelli-mt21-rallycross-tires-750x750.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0YtXjNj)
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in regard to 3rd world countries, the Michelin Anakee's on my v85 are made in Thailand. 7,000 miles with pretty serious twisty roads and they still look good but the rear is squaring off some. I think they should go 10,000. I am satisfied with that.
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On perfectly smooth and dry pavement, when up to temps, I can see the Demons performing well, even very well as you describe. But on bumpy roads with poor pavement/a little dirt they are mediocre at best as their stiffness becomes the enemy of grip. In wet conditions they are downright scary, especially 2up and loaded down.
Exactly my experience. I had two sets on my 2013 V7 Stone. The stock set lasted as long as the new one. As I like to ride in the winter also I chose the Dunlop Arrowmax Streetsmart. They last definitely longer and the work in the cold, in the wet and even on wet grass. I have just ordered a new rear tyre after about 11000 km. However when I have to change both tyres I will try the Conti radials.
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This time round, I am trying a set of these, SHINKO Ravens, on my Centauro GT.
So far, so good, 500-600 mile trip next Tues, so I will let you know more. They were $150 cheaper than Pirelli Angel GT's. :thumb: :cool: :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/6wXZJD3/Screen-Shot-2020-06-25-at-5-45-55-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/6wXZJD3)
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I tried Sport Demons when they first came out maybe a dozen years ago on my LeMans. They were just OK. The best tires I ever ran on the LeMans were Avon Super Venoms, NLA. The Sport Demons were geasey by comparison. No idea what are good sport tires today but just put a set of Anakee IIIs on my KLR which I am also running on my Triumph Tiger and am fairly pleased with them though lean angles are not close what the LeMans can do.
Pete
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One of the most important factors affecting tire grip is age. Guessing that, even if they were the same compound and tread depth, the SDs on a 'new' bike would be a few years old by the time the owner gets it on the road. BC, what's the date code on yours?
EDIT: Just noticed that your Roamer is a 2017 model. I bet those tires were made in late 2015 or 2016. :popcorn:
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My second set of Sport Demons was new. Changed nothing on its bad behaviour.
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I haven't noticed a problem with the Sport Demons. I don't push the bike that hard tho. After 1000 miles, the outer 1" of the tires remain unused and my chicken legs stand tall!
(https://i.ibb.co/C1DQmHN/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C1DQmHN)
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Sport Demons work fine on my LM2 and it handles fairly well for a 40 year old machine.
Maybe it's because the tyres are so skinny and the bike so heavy that it seems well 'planted' and also that I don't get many miles from them - they are cheap enough to not worry about the life though...
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I bought a forum contributor's V7 Special 14 months ago with 15 thousand miles on it. The Michelin Pilot Activ tires had about 2,000 miles on them at that point. I replaced the rear one with the bike's odometer showing 22,000mi, so that tire lasted about 9,000mi. I just replaced the front, and if the previous owner and I calculate correctly, it had 15,000mi on it -- and it had not reached the wear bars! I'm sure I could have ridden it another thousand miles. I live in Colorado and I ride curvy roads a lot but I'm pretty old and cautious. I'm happy with the Pilot Activs but I wish I could run them tubeless on my spoked rims. This winter Woody's Wheel Works will seal them and I'll throw away the inner tubes.
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The fact is you can buy a hard compound high mileage tire that's good for touring on the interstate in a straight line and slow riding in the curves that will last 9,000 miles or you can buy a soft sticky compound that wont last near as long maybe 4500 miles or far less if you are a fast rider ,I've wore out a set of brand new tires and brake pads in less than 6 hours at the track . You can have a high mileage tire with ok grip or a low mile high grip soft compound tire but you can't have both the sport demons are in the middle and thats one reason Moto Guzzi and I run SD's on my V7
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I checked the tires dates, they do have gray beards. Front is (4615) rear (0916) on a 17” but purchased in (5019). So there there not exactly factory fresh!
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I checked the tires dates, they do have gray beards. Front is (4615) rear (0916) on a 17” but purchased in (5019). So there there not exactly factory fresh!
If you park your bike in the hot sun like here in south texas and ride in 100 degree heat they don't stay fresh long .
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On perfectly smooth and dry pavement, when up to temps, I can see the Demons performing well, even very well as you describe. But on bumpy roads with poor pavement/a little dirt they are mediocre at best as their stiffness becomes the enemy of grip. In wet conditions they are downright scary, especially 2up and loaded down.
Sounds like a suspension problem.
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Yes I have.
I'm having an old timer moment right now and can't remember his name, but the young lad that does the excellent videos for Fortnine did a video recently on this topic, I think the link for it might have been posted on wg over the winter,idk.
Apparently when bike manufacturers put out a call for tenders to the top name tire manufacturers, the winning tire supplier bids are built to a price point; as you say, usually the tread will be much thinner and sometimes the tire compound or manufacturing standards will be of a lower quality as well, trade secrets?.
It's unfortunate but the Sport Demons supplied stock as OEM "might" not only be thinner but of a different inferior compound or construction as well.
The differing opinions/experiences expressed above, vary widely, part of the reason may be that with Sport Demons supplied as OEM on a new bike vs replacements with the "same" tire may be comparing apples to oranges.
fwiw ymmv.
Kelly
Thus hurting future sales of that product. Doesn't make sense that they would build different tires with the same name. That would mean new molds, so why keep the same name?
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Thus hurting future sales of that product. Doesn't make sense that they would build different tires with the same name. That would mean new molds, so why keep the same name?
I've read that OEM suppliers use the same mold but different construction with thinner tread and different compound to keep costs down and therefore, lower the price of the bike. They LOOK identical but are not quite the same quality as direct from the tire manufacturer. It's all about what the OEM is willing to pay for tires in volume so the tire guys have to cut cost somewhere. And yes, it is a tightrope they walk of meeting OEM demands vs. brand equity.
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I've read that OEM suppliers use the same mold but different construction with thinner tread and different compound to keep costs down and therefore, lower the price of the bike. They LOOK identical but are not quite the same quality as direct from the tire manufacturer. It's all about what the OEM is willing to pay for tires in volume so the tire guys have to cut cost somewhere. And yes, it is a tightrope they walk of meeting OEM demands vs. brand equity.
Ryan F9's video says the OEM tires have a different manufacturer's part number on the sidewall. Sidewall numbers (like manufactured date) don't require a different mold, just a different plate inside the mold.