Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: aussiebrick on June 29, 2020, 12:22:32 PM
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Hi guys,
I'm new here and I am looking into getting my first Guzzi.
I have recently come across a 1985 V65 Lario that is apparently in good running condition and is in a pretty good price point around 6K Aussie Dollars.
I did however do my research and have discovered these bikes can have issues particularly with the valves. I messaged the owner and asked about the valves he said as far as he knows they are the original factory ones. He is the second owner bought the bike from the original who did 20,000km on it. He has used it to commute over the last 15 years and it now has 45,000km.
It's beautiful to look at but I am a bit hesitant.
My questions are the following.
Is there a common mileage point where I need to consider replacing these valves?
Also how likely is it that after all these years that the engine decides to blow-up? If it's already proved fairly reliable all this time.
Lastly is it also possible the valves were replaced by the original owner under warranty?
I am coming off owning a BMW K75, which I did most of the maintenance on myself. It was a great bike for going camping and doing errands with the hard cases (I don't own a car) It had some minor issues mostly electrical, it was also a bit heavy. I am looking for something with a bit more character and charm to the engine, that has a shaft drive and is somewhat comfortable enough for long distance riding. Obviously BMW airheads fit the bill, but the Guzzis I have always been romantically interested in.
Obviously I need to go ride it and see if I fall for it. But just doing my research before borrowing my dad's car to do the long drive to see it.
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Welcome to the forum
I had a Lario for a couple of years I believe you can keep them going for years if you don't over rev them.
I may be wrong but I think you get sone warning the valves are starting to stretch if the tappet clearance.
One problem I had was with a large connector mid way under the tank.
And they have a spring loaded prop stand that folds itself up, I didn't like that.
There are many much more knowledgable than me on here.
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just change the valves and valve springs as a precaution, even if it is just for your peace of mind, and you should be OK
parts are not that expensive and it is a easy one day job.
the lario is a great little bike ,
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There's still a few Lario's on the road over here. There's a definitive article on the smallblocks, including the Lario by Rod Yeomans to be found on thisoldtractor's archive section. Martin (jacksonracingcomau on here) in Victoria has one running well & has put some of his theories into practice - and set them out here sometime in the last year or so. If you're the correct size & shape for the Lario ergonomics, it's definitely a starter, but you should be prepared for the possibility of some angst in its future. If worst comes to the worst, the modern 2 valve smallblock engines fit. For that kind of money, a lower mileage modern smallblock (say, the V7) would be an viable option, although not the cheap historic registration. Happy hunting.
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Awesome thanks for the replies.
The common valve replacement option is using new valves and springs from a suzuki gn250 correct?
Doesn't look expensive at all.
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At that money with no provenance, don’t walk, run, new valves and springs are not complete fix by a very long way
Saying that, twice that wouldn’t buy mine, I love it
If you like the 80’s styling, it’s possible to fit any small block engine in it, easiest way to go for sure
I’d buy 8v engine as long as rh head hasn’t been welded up already, making project cheapish
Or ride it slowly as is, restraint may be enough,
8v engine
Valves don’t stretch, all I measured (28 , all used) were hammered at tip, clue was there
Current oe replacements are good quality
Pretty easy to see what’s been changed up top, if you can, post pic of valves/springs at max lift, I’ll tell from that.
But exy bit is downstairs, if run with oe or other wrong springs for long, cam is toast, not megga dear or time consuming but not 5 mins either. Then every pushrod, adjuster, tappet etc needs checking. Rocker arms may be mullered too.
Best you can hope for is it is ex WA and fixed at time under warranty, what anybody else has done may be so far off the mark, you are about to enter minefield.
Search for “ why do Larios drop valves ” thread on here for some of it, if you’re up for a proper build, it’s doable but not as easy as quick net search makes you think
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The common valve replacement option is using new valves and springs from a suzuki gn250 correct?
Or you can use Guzzi Nevada springs.
I suggest that you check the camshaft. You can do that by measuring how much the valves opens. It should be something like 8mm. If it is much less, you will need a new camshaft.
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Search for “ why do Larios drop valves ” thread on here for some of it, if you’re up for a proper build, it’s doable but not as easy as quick net search makes you think
This. That said, it's worth it. The Lario is a hoot.
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This. That said, it's worth it. The Lario is a hoot.
Mike Wrenn’s build and pics with your comment on valve springs worth seeing too, that was thread that got my interest in sb8v in first place. Be interesting where that and the other “hot” ones ended up
Or you can use Guzzi Nevada springs.
I suggest that you check the camshaft. You can do that by measuring how much the valves opens. It should be something like 8mm. If it is much less, you will need a new camshaft.
“ Something like much less than 8mm” in relation to cam lift not really good advice, hardening on cams/ tappets only a few thousands of an inch, use dial gauge not ruler ! 8mm not a number that’s relevant
More interesting to me is that you got Navada springs to work
Wouldn’t come close in mine
Do tell installed height you set them up at, and more specifically pressure at full lift ( both measured not guessed)
With new cam and tappets, everything else checked and clear these are the numbers that have to be verified, the factory manual is bollox, springs have to be able to travel the actual distance the valves do . Book pressures good to aim for, distances not what I measured, confused with other model perhaps?
EASY AS ABC
Assume nothing
Believe no-one
Check everything
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hardening on cams/ tappets only a few thousands of an inch, use dial gauge not ruler ! 8mm not a number that’s relevant
Of course it would be better to check with better precision, but the OPs consideration was weather to buy the Lario or not. So a check of the valve lift will give an indication of if the camshaft is OK, without too much trouble. On a knackered Lario camshaft we could be talking of a tenth of a inch wear.
I have installed Nevada springs with spring retainers and collets, without any problems. Ideally they should have an 1mm shim in order to have the same pressure as on a Nevada, but I have not done so, as I don't rev it beyond the red line.
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i have been running nevada springs in mine too.
i cant claim complete success, it still dropped a valve , but that is another story.
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i have been running nevada springs in mine too.
i cant claim complete success, it still dropped a valve , but that is another story.
Haha, brilliant, I struggled with wording for a while but get it now
Only one of 8 valves nevada’d broke, therefore 7 of 8 didn’t
So the optimist might say 87.5% successful !!
Guess we’ve scared the op off by now
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Haha, brilliant, I struggled with wording for a while but get it now
Only one of 8 valves nevada’d broke, therefore 7 of 8 didn’t
So the optimist might say 87.5% successful !!
Guess we’ve scared the op off by now
To be precise, the valve did not break, the collets came out due to the spring seat wearing through.
not sure if that qualifies as a dropped valve. :azn:
having said that ,
i've got more than 100.000 miles on my lario, most of them as daily transport.
I would still be riding it if i could find a servicable cylinder head.
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To be precise, the valve did not break, the collets came out due to the spring seat wearing through.
not sure if that qualifies as a dropped valve. :azn:
having said that ,
i've got more than 100.000 miles on my lario, most of them as daily transport.
I would still be riding it if i could find a servicable cylinder head.
Yep, called dropped valve, named for symptom, not cause
Spring seat wearing another symptom, usually a forever item, I have only seem this on my two silly fix larios
I chucked them all for obvious reasons but might be help to OKA to post pics of your failed one and other 7 with installed heights/ spring pressures. Might be clue for him.
Which head .?
I have left, need right
If you’re opposite, let’s pick $ number, toss a coin which way it goes (or poll on here)
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If worst comes to the worst, the modern 2 valve smallblock engines fit. For that kind of money, a lower mileage modern smallblock (say, the V7) would be an viable option, although not the cheap historic registration. Happy hunting.
....I’ve seen the engine swap mentioned before, but no descriptors on WG that I’ve seen. Anybody describe the mate up?
...and would a V85 swap be feasible? - asking for a friend. :evil:
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Did a search here "V65 Stone" & found it - Original post Jan 2016 by V65TT "2015 V7 engine and box into V65TT with carbs" came up first in line. The photos no longer come up though.
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OP, there is another guy on the site as well as Martin, Mike and Mal who have some experience with these
grenades fine machines. Brian, who goes under the name of Iceblue (he lives in one of the Scandinavian countries) is a smallblock man and has a few 4 valvers.
There was anther guy whose name escapes me at the moment, who was a bit like Martin and warmed one up a bit. Managed to get it reliable. Mal, can you remember who it was? He was working on it at the same time as Mike Wrenn.
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OP, there is another guy on the site as well as Martin, Mike and Mal who have some experience with these grenades fine machines. Brian, who goes under the name of Iceblue (he lives in one of the Scandinavian countries) is a smallblock man and has a few 4 valvers.
There was anther guy whose name escapes me at the moment, who was a bit like Martin and warmed one up a bit. Managed to get it reliable. Mal, can you remember who it was? He was working on it at the same time as Mike Wrenn.
I removed my "grenade" valve caps when I put in the Aero engine. :smiley:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/kXUAAMXQlgtS-9gh/s-l225.jpg)
If anyone needs them, just give me a ping. They are green, though..
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....I’ve seen the engine swap mentioned before, but no descriptors on WG that I’ve seen. Anybody describe the mate up?
...and would a V85 swap be feasible? - asking for a friend. :evil:
V85 engine swap would be nearer to Chuck’s Aero fit, documented well on here with pics
Front case (timing chest) engine mounts not there on Lario frame, would need either earlier case or bit of welding there.
I think original lower mount holes are there on v85 but unused, that needs checking ditto 6 speed mounts.
Definitely doable but prob not sensible unless v85 bits a gift. Easier to just fit lario tank , panels and seat to v85 if that was intention,
Other small blocks, breva, v7 or v9 more straightforward. Carbs or efi both doable, I’d like v9 rear end on mine, drive train looks like it has come into this millennium, same as v85 afaik
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Looks like there are many fixes here for the valves.
Is it possible to just ride the bike with it's original valves and new springs and keep it well under the red line assuming you keep the valves adjusted to spec.
I mean if this bike as the owner said is still running well, may as well just keep those valves adjusted and ride until it blows up one day.
Then just replace the engine with one from a v7 or nevada.
I mean the styling particularly the instruments and the cockpit are what is really drawing me to this bike.
If I ever get out of this bloody hotel quarantine in Sydney I reckon i'll just drive up to the gold coast with a trailer to see it. If it is still around.
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Looks like there are many fixes here for the valves.
Is it possible to just ride the bike with it's original valves and new springs and keep it well under the red line assuming you keep the valves adjusted to spec.
I mean if this bike as the owner said is still running well, may as well just keep those valves adjusted and ride until it blows up one day.
Then just replace the engine with one from a v7 or nevada.
I mean the styling particularly the instruments and the cockpit are what is really drawing me to this bike.
If I ever get out of this bloody hotel quarantine in Sydney I reckon i'll just drive up to the gold coast with a trailer to see it. If it is still around.
I haven't owned one but I have heard the tales of woe.
From what I have learnt, it wont keep running. At the moment you have two good heads. They are very hard to get; if you don't intend to keep the motor there is at the moment the choice of parting it out with the two heads being decent money.
The "Aerolario" that Chuck is talking about is actually a version of the modification you are talking about. It has the drone motor made from Unobtanium that fell off the back of a truck etc etc and was modified by Chuck to work in a Lario that lost it's motor in the usual way. It has a hemi head and made at the time when the smallblocks all had Heron heads. If your ultimate plan (if you get it) is to put another motor in it, yes it would be possible. Chuck could no doubt alert you to any pitfalls.
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For those curious here is the add by the way.
I think for the price and all that has been discussed it is a bit too much money for all the potential work.
There is a Guzzi Breva 750 for way less hanging around I might check out. Should be a much more reliable mount.
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hemmant/motorcycles/moto-guzzi-v65-lario-1985/1238306091 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hemmant/motorcycles/moto-guzzi-v65-lario-1985/1238306091)
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That appears to be a very nice unmolested Lario. I know bike prices are crazy in Oz compared to the US, so I can't say what it should bring in Oz dollars. Here, the seller would be lucky to get $2500, though. They sell like Pete's rat sandwiches. :smiley: <shrug>
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For those curious here is the add by the way.
I think for the price and all that has been discussed it is a bit too much money for all the potential work.
There is a Guzzi Breva 750 for way less hanging around I might check out. Should be a much more reliable mount.
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hemmant/motorcycles/moto-guzzi-v65-lario-1985/1238306091 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hemmant/motorcycles/moto-guzzi-v65-lario-1985/1238306091)
jesus, what sort of rear rack is that?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/phVho-e1yOAVHLEoqTXAM96B7Kp5kE0bbSrlAKPnMrYm3VfuXDRFEI7k7S8LS3USqVfd-0H8YBWYXM5C0D_s5l42-mShbdIe3mXvTTN4eXDysmSHXz10iaSNd-rHwlBvWQKl2RK0GOezjM5_ZZ4)
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I know that rack looks bloody awful right.
First thing to do would be to take that off. Fit some nicer panniers later if touring.
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I know that rack looks bloody awful right.
First thing to do would be to take that off. Fit some nicer panniers later if touring.
They are not very pretty, but they work really well..
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/fb8bf838caf1b625/IMG_20190830_112457086_HDR.jpg)
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Those panniers look way better than the rack.
Very clean also more practical.
Remind me of my old Bmw panniers.
I loved the panniers on my BMW K75. Easy to take on and off. With very unobtrusive mounting points.
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Dusting this off as I've discovered an '86 Lario with 18K miles near me for $1500. Seller states "been sitting' for a while so won't start but engine spins freely. Pictures show a fully intact bike in v. good cosmetic condition.
Is it a fools errand to try and bring it back to life?
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I don't think so, price is right to get it home.
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$1500 for a cosmetically nice Lario is money well spent, IMHO. Don't be surprised if the motor spins over but has a dead head, though.. :smiley:
If both heads are good, it's a bargain. :thumb:
Edit: oh, forgot.. there is a necessary rear drive mod on an 85. There's a transmission vent mod that should needs to be done so a full liter of transmission lube can be used. If fifth gear is whining, it's too late. I detailed both here.. somewhere.
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$1500 for a cosmetically nice Lario is money well spent, IMHO. Don't be surprised if the motor spins over but has a dead head, though.. :smiley:
If both heads are good, it's a bargain. :thumb:
Edit: oh, forgot.. there is a necessary rear drive mod on an 85. There's a transmission vent mod that should needs to be done so a full liter of transmission lube can be used. If fifth gear is whining, it's too late. I detailed both here.. somewhere.
What constitutes a "dead head" and how do you determine if a head is good or not?
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Pull a plug, turn it over with your finger in it.. :shocked: :smiley: No compression? She's dead, Jim..
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Dusting this off as I've discovered an '86 Lario with 18K miles near me for $1500. Seller states "been sitting' for a while so won't start but engine spins freely. Pictures show a fully intact bike in v. good cosmetic condition.
Is it a fools errand to try and bring it back to life?
sounds like a good deal , worst case it dropped a valve and you'll have to find a V65 two valve engine to drop in instead of the 4 valve engine.
if the engine is still servicable after new valves and valve springs it should be ok.
these are great little bikes.
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Pull a plug, turn it over with your finger in it.. :shocked: :smiley: No compression? She's dead, Jim..
Succinct, and to the point as usual Chuck. :grin:
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Pull a plug, turn it over with your finger in it.. :shocked: :smiley: No compression? She's dead, Jim..
I have a cheapie compression tester that should do the job. What's a decent PSI, 150+?
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The point being.. if it has dropped a valve etc. there won't be *any* compression on that side. If you have 2 good heads you'll need to overhaul them anyway so a compression reading is a moot point at this time.
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The point being.. if it has dropped a valve etc. there won't be *any* compression on that side. If you have 2 good heads you'll need to overhaul them anyway so a compression reading is a moot point at this time.
Ah, got it. Thanks for the advice.