Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tkelly on July 09, 2020, 09:07:23 PM
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Thinking about getting one or the other,price is not the issue,what are the pros and cons?
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I'd get a late model 8v Griso if was going to ride it. If I wanted to work on it and keep a collectible, then the Centauro.
If I wanted to ride a beauty, a V11 Sport Greenie is the best choice. :thumb:
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I’ve had both and can’t think of a single aspect of ownership or performance where a V10 Centauro beats a Griso 8V. IMHO, a Griso 8V delivers on the V10 Centauro hopes and promises.
YMMV
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If $$ is no issue, I'd get one of each :thumb:
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I owned and rode a V11 Sport (Greenie) for ten years. I have also ridden both the 8V Griso and the Centauro. The Centauro was a fantastic bike I had a chance to ride for several long runs. The 8V Griso I had a chance to ride on a few test rides hosted at a couple of rallies. It was my opinion that the 8V Griso was the Centauro refined and finished. Where the Centauro was a hairy chested beast that delivered the goods in a hard edged way and was a gas to ride the 8V Griso did the same job with a smooth and refined feel.
As for the V11S I was totally in love with it and only let it go when I just could not handle the riding position. Not the fault of the bike just an aging body that couldn't adapt any more. Still miss that bike.
If I were the OP I would go for the 8V Griso, rollered if a pre 2013, as the Centuro has some issues that one would want to deal with that are very pricy. Oil pump up grade being at the heart of it.
Just my opinion. The memories of riding that Centauro on the mountain roads north of Elko Nevada are some of the best I have. The fact that it belonged to a very good friend that is no longer with us make them even better.
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I have, and enjoy both, but if I had to choose it would be the Griso Even though the Centauro is fully sorted, the Carac bikes are much more refined.
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I own a '98 Centauro GT and have ridden my friend's 8V 1200 a time or two.
My vote ? Go with the Griso...it's faster, smoother, and a more modern and forgiving bike all around! :thumb: :cool: :wink:
...and I do like "a greenie" version as well. :thumb: :cool: :smiley:
(https://i.ibb.co/6HDYLr3/Screen-Shot-2020-07-10-at-8-07-09-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/6HDYLr3)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZggjJ98/IMG-E1780.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZggjJ98)
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I owned and rode a V11 Sport (Greenie) for ten years. I have also ridden both the 8V Griso and the Centauro. The Centauro was a fantastic bike I had a chance to ride for several long runs. The 8V Griso I had a chance to ride on a few test rides hosted at a couple of rallies. It was my opinion that the 8V Griso was the Centauro refined and finished. Where the Centauro was a hairy chested beast that delivered the goods in a hard edged way and was a gas to ride the 8V Griso did the same job with a smooth and refined feel.
As for the V11S I was totally in love with it and only let it go when I just could not handle the riding position. Not the fault of the bike just an aging body that couldn't adapt any more. Still miss that bike.
If I were the OP I would go for the 8V Griso, rollered if a pre 2013, as the Centuro has some issues that one would want to deal with that are very pricy. Oil pump up grade being at the heart of it.
Just my opinion. The memories of riding that Centauro on the mountain roads north of Elko Nevada are some of the best I have. The fact that it belonged to a very good friend that is no longer with us make them even better.
That sums it up in a nut shell. I put a lot of miles on the Centauro, but it was labor intensive to do it. *Fun* labor, but still.. It would have eventually cost some money to do the necessary mods.
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As a 2nd bike I'd pick the Centauro. As my only bike the Griso. (I've owned both)
Mike
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The Griso is too 'civilized'. :evil:
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I have also ridden both the 8V Griso and the Centauro. The Centauro was a fantastic bike I had a chance to ride for several long runs. The 8V Griso I had a chance to ride on a few test rides hosted at a couple of rallies. It was my opinion that the 8V Griso was the Centauro refined and finished. Where the Centauro was a hairy chested beast that delivered the goods in a hard edged way and was a gas to ride the 8V Griso did the same job with a smooth and refined feel.
I agree with that after having rides on both. Sean Connery vs Roger Moore. The Griso was nice, the Stelvio accelerated to 105 so fast it was scary, the Centauro is still in my garage. Grin factor won out. Regarding maintenance over the last 15 years. Belts, fork fluid change, some extra grounds, a Guzzitech pc3 mapped by MD racing. Only time ever in the shop while I've owned it because of a loss of oil pressure due to the o-ring on the oil filter splitting. Shut it down immediately and let Joe W the Guzzi Doc take a look. Been running strong ever since. Except for this year while it been sitting in storage waiting for the house to be completed.
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TheCentauroI am looking at has the Daytona tuned motor.Does that change anyone’s opinion?What is aDaytonalike to ride?
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I'm almost out of riding the Daytona. It doesn't feel any heavier than the V7 iii and still produces a huge grin. I just need someone to reliably put the side stand down, when I stop. Yes, it's a bit tighter (clip-ons of course), than a Centauro. R3~
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I love riding my Centauro more the I thought I would, just a fun bike to ride. My late friend Ron the, PO had it well sorted. I did the belts this past winter. But I always wanted a Griso and would trade in a minute.
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The Griso is too 'civilized'. :evil:
That is kind of my feeling, but I'm an anachronism, and realize that.. <shrug>
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The wheelbase of the Griso is quite a bit longer than the Centauro (1550 Vs 1475 mm).
How does their handling compare?
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Thinking about getting one or the other,price is not the issue,what are the pros and cons?
There are some fine answers posted here but there is only really one choice I'm afraid if riding the bike is you're priority, the Griso. As someone who has just completed a total engine rebuild on a Centauro/Daytona engine I can tell you parts are getting virtually impossible to find now even second hand and it wont be getting any easier in the future. They only made 3418 Daytona/Centauro engines combined over the production life plus a few MGS-01's which are a little different in internal details so unless somebody like me picks up the gauntlet and starts having stuff made again which I'm investigating currently nothing will become available in the future as the economic numbers simply dont add up for a larger supplier.
Apart from all that the Centauro engine top end is a long way from bullet proof and has issues with high wear esp with guides and followers.
I love this engine as an engineer because it's a challenge but it's not a sensible purchase these days.
If you could find a Centi with less than 30,000 klms on it and you didn't see yourself doing many klms per year then maybe. But the roller engined 8 valve Griso is a better engine in just about every way.
Ciao
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TheCentauroI am looking at has the Daytona tuned motor.Does that change anyone’s opinion?What is aDaytonalike to ride?
Depending on the country of sale the Centi and Daytona RS engines are the same output. USA, Swiss and Singapore Daytona RS's had the same cams and everything else as the Centy. The European Daytona RS's had the different hotter cams. All the other variations are basically identical with the exception of pistons which were different in the earlier Daytonas pre centy.
Ciao
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Depending on the country of sale the Centi and Daytona RS engines are the same output. USA, Swiss and Singapore Daytona RS's had the same cams and everything else as the Centy. The European Daytona RS's had the different hotter cams. All the other variations are basically identical with the exception of pistons which were different in the earlier Daytonas pre centy.
Centauros and RSs have Carrillo con-rods, earlier Daytona engines have Guzzi rods.
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Centauros and RSs have Carrillo con-rods, earlier Daytona engines have Guzzi rods.
Yes true, forgot about that. The Centy and RS Daytona Carrillos also have larger rod bolts than the std Carrillos as well. Not that it really matters.
Ciao
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Phil did the later Daytonas not also have a lightened crank
I don't know for certain but I've heard that if you ordered the 'C' Kit for an early Daytona, which is what the RS engine is, Guzzi gave you a new crank.
The 'C' bikes' mains had a far tighter tolerance on the big ends and I heard that they also lightened the crank too
You'd probably never notice it for day to day riding though
John
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Phil did the later Daytonas not also have a lightened crank
I don't know for certain but I've heard that if you ordered the 'C' Kit for an early Daytona, which is what the RS engine is, Guzzi gave you a new crank.
The 'C' bikes' mains had a far tighter tolerance on the big ends and I heard that they also lightened the crank too
You'd probably never notice it for day to day riding though
John
Main bearing and big end clearances are all the same John from early Daytona to Centy and RS. The cranks are a different part number from early Daytona to Centy and RS probably because they would be balanced differently to accommodate the Carrillo rods which would be lighter. Not sure what came in a "C" Kit but if it was rods then that's probably why you'd get a crank I'd imagine. The MGS crank is different and looks like it has material removed off the crank bob weights to accommodate the 100mm Cosworth pistons.
Ciao
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Thanks to all for the education,looking for a Griso.
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I own a '98 Centauro GT and have ridden my friend's 8V 1200 a time or two.
My vote ? Go with the Griso...it's faster, smoother, and a more modern and forgiving bike all around! :thumb: :cool: :wink:
...and I do like "a greenie" version as well. :thumb: :cool: :smiley:
(https://i.ibb.co/6HDYLr3/Screen-Shot-2020-07-10-at-8-07-09-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/6HDYLr3)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZggjJ98/IMG-E1780.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZggjJ98)
No JJ say it isnt so...... :grin:
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No JJ say it isnt so...... :grin:
Don't get me wrong, I have really enjoyed my Centauro over the last fiver years, and I have installed all the mods / upgrades to make it a reliable, sports touring machine. :thumb: :cool: :boozing:
I am just saying that IMHO, the Griso is a more refined, modern, smoother, and faster Guzzi! :thumb: :cool: :smiley:
Before I had the Centauro, I almost bought a brand new Griso...but I wanted something different, quirky, and unique. :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/RHgMfqy/IMG-1818.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHgMfqy)
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Thanks to all for the education,looking for a Griso.
Good choice! Make sure to let us know how the search goes.
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If you don't like the newer dashes, that would be the thing, not a triangle/service in sight.
I been looking for a Centy off and on. Was tracking one here in GA, well it popped back up a different color.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-Moto-Guzzi-V10-Centauro/153998481247?hash=item23db06575f:g:GckAAOSwIPhfBJUB
And this time the owner put a MyECU in it w/O2 sniffer. Pretty nice bike, no affiliation w/seller. I was wondering what happened to the Blue Centy.
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The Centauro is a hairy beast , the Griso is a hairy beast that has been to charm school .
Dusty
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Don't get me wrong, I have really enjoyed my Centauro over the last fiver years, and I have installed all the mods / upgrades to make it a reliable, sports touring machine. :thumb: :cool: :boozing:
I am just saying that IMHO, the Griso is a more refined, modern, smoother, and faster Guzzi! :thumb: :cool: :smiley:
Before I had the Centauro, I almost bought a brand new Griso...but I wanted something different, quirky, and unique. :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/RHgMfqy/IMG-1818.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHgMfqy)
I think everyone falls in love with the look of the Daytona engine including me. That's the only reason I put one in my V11, it certainly wasn't a rational choice.
Ciao
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I never gave the Centauro much thought...until I saw one. I like it a lot, refinement be damned.
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(https://i.ibb.co/fQn9gBJ/1523154-702748299784811-1081698963-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fQn9gBJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/kgmmxQS/68712063-2541706125889010-3221179094943137792-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kgmmxQS)
Well the Griso is called a Griso. The mighty Centauro is called the beast. Sums it up nicely.
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(https://i.ibb.co/fQn9gBJ/1523154-702748299784811-1081698963-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fQn9gBJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/kgmmxQS/68712063-2541706125889010-3221179094943137792-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kgmmxQS)
Well the Griso is called a Griso. The mighty Centauro is called the beast. Sums it up nicely.
"The Beast" indeed...I remember letting my Ducati-Beemer buddy ride it...and his comment was:
"It's a completely different motorcycle above 70 mph!" :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh: :thumb: :cool:
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I might suggest some peripheral issues:
The Centauro body panels are unobtanium. Anything can be repaired- but bodywork and refinish is time consuming.
The CARC drive system really is quite nice (IF it is lubed ;) From the engine back, the Griso has it all over the Centauro I would think.
The Grisos do have very nice suspenders- lovely ride.
There are plenty of 8V engines out there and the plant is well proven- working on a Griso is pretty simple.
I have no clue about the electronics behind a Centauro- but would ask how reliable the heart of the system is (I'm thinking about the somewhat notorious dash issue with the early B11s)
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I have had both and it is like comparing apples and oranges. The Griso is a better bike in all aspects. My Centauro had upgraded suspension front/back and a Will Creedon chip and was as good as it is possible to make them still the Griso is a better bike. Much more refined and you really feel the better suspension etc. If you want the best bike go for the G. I loved my C but I miss them both. The G is very fussy about suspension set up and tyre/tyre pressure.
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As much as I love my Centauro I'll admit a post 2012 Griso is probably a better purchase due to many of the reasons mentioned. I believe the Centauro was only made for 3 years and had a very limited production, along with the bugs that didn't get fixed in the subsequent versions that were never made.
Now from what I understand, the first version of 8V Grisos had a bit of an issue with their top-ends, i.e. after 2013 vs before 2013 issue with the top end. All that said if I were to buy one today I'd probably buy a Griso. Would I trade my Centauro for a Griso?, No. for a V11 Sport variant or 1200 sport 4v, maybe. For anything currently made by Guzzi, definitely No.
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"....much more refined..."
It's what I like about the Daytona, it is much more visceral and uncivilized than the Griso. That doesn't mean that I don't like riding the later bikes.
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"....much more refined..."
It's what I like about the Daytona, it is much more visceral and uncivilized than the Griso. That doesn't mean that I don't like riding the later bikes.
Ever since The Kid restored his Spot, his Grease O sits. The older bike never lets you forget you are operating a "machine.." and after all..to me..that is why I ride them.
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Interesting to see how this thread has evolved, its drifted down the emotional path which isn't a criticism just an observation. The OP originally asked about thoughts on the purchase of 2 different bikes presumable to actually ride not as a garage queen.
One option is now at best 20 years old with a production run of 1918 units total ( or 3418 total Datyona/Centauro engines) has an engine with significant and very expensive to rectify wear issues in the cylinder head, oil pump and cam drive with parts that are getting impossible to source and highly unlikely to ever be available again due to the economics and engineering challenges involved.Second hand spare parts that do become available are often not from old worn engines but from engines that have had serious failures, generally big end seizures and oil pump failures, which they are renowned for.
The other option is a bike you can relatively easily buy at 3 years of age with low mileage and is a robust design with plenty of parts available. You can even bump them up to 1400cc without breaking the bank if you feel the need. Plenty of tuning and EFI mapping by very competent people about as well.
Emotion will always be a factor but really buying a Centauro over a Griso to actually ride around at this point in time for the average motorcyclist in the street is bordering on madness. Believe me I'm mad enough to have gotten way more deeply involved in the 8 valve engines than most and my advice is dont even go there. Unless you have a fascination with obsolete engineering and you like mechanicing more than riding and engineering challenges of course. If thats the case then the Daytona/Centy community is very supportive.
Ciao
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My RS is my favorite of nine motorcycles, gear and oil pump issues are fixed on mine and I don’t expect to have engine issues... but if I do, forgive me for saying this, the source of parts will likely be a rough Centauro bought cheap. I already had this in mind when I bought the RS in 1999, when the 8V engine was being discontinued and the 4V V11 Sport was introduced as the Guzzi sport bike. Rough Centauros are out there, I’ve thought about buying one for parts but I think they will remain ‘out there’ and probably won’t appreciate in value, even with what I think is a very special engine.
It’s true that the Griso was an Aprilia update to the Centauro concept so its really the only later bike that is directly comparable to what Guzzi made before the takeover. I think the did a pretty good job although I prefer the belt driven cams and the shorter wheelbase of the earlier bike but the styling of the Griso is better.
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My RS is my favorite of nine motorcycles, gear and oil pump issues are fixed on mine and I don’t expect to have engine issues... but if I do, forgive me for saying this, the source of parts will likely be a rough Centauro bought cheap. I already had this in mind when I bought the RS in 1999, when the 8V engine was being discontinued and the 4V V11 Sport was introduced as the Guzzi sport bike. Rough Centauros are out there, I’ve thought about buying one for parts but I think they will remain ‘out there’ and probably won’t appreciate in value, even with what I think is a very special engine.
It’s true that the Griso was an Aprilia update to the Centauro concept so its really the only later bike that is directly comparable to what Guzzi made before the takeover. I think the did a pretty good job although I prefer the belt driven cams and the shorter wheelbase of the earlier bike but the styling of the Griso is better.
Hopefully you will be fine but the cylinder heads are the highest wear part of the engine and it's not oil pump related. I've never seen valve guide wear so bad in an engine as my centy when it was pulled down. We are talking .030" guide to valve stem clearance. Lifters are also another high failure item as well. If I was buying a Daytona/Centy engined bike with 50,000 klms on it I would be budgeting on new oil pump and cam drive assembly and new valves, guides and lifters at the very least. The cam drive and oil pump to prevent catastrophic failure and the valve gear to maintain it's performance and stop it becoming a rattly old lump. The guides valves and lifters would need to be non standard as well or in the case of the lifters, gas nitrided to improve the wear.
A second hand 8 valve Guzzi is like buying a second hand bevel drive Ducati when it comes to the mitigation costs of the mechanical implications.
Ciao
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Owning a Centy sounds kind of like owning a Vincent back in the60s,there were owners clubs and rallies and you could find cheap examples.However I am 75 and don’t care much about collector value in 50 years so the Griso is for me.Thanks all for some very interesting perspectives.
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Yeah, this was (still is!) a lovely thread.
I've never ridden a Centauro, or any other bike with similar motor. Some of the comments on it here are meaningful, though - operating a machine, uncivilised, a beast. :undecided:
More of a handful probably than my roadster, which also is like riding a machine, I'd say.
I was 70 this March, and really appreciate my 8V Griso. Definitely a Guzzi, but very smooth. Rock steady on the road. :thumb:
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Remember to get a rollerized Griso. Check the production dates and models. The final version SE seem to have a little more sporty go than the others I've ridden. I've heard it's got a little different gearing (I'm not saying that it true but I'd appreciate the facts).
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Remember to get a rollerized Griso. Check the production dates and models. The final version SE seem to have a little more sporty go than the others I've ridden. I've heard it's got a little different gearing (I'm not saying that it true but I'd appreciate the facts).
The only gearing change that I know of is the 1100 vs 1200. My SE is 4k @ 70mph top gear and for the 1100 maybe 500 more. Not the the most notable difference between the two however.
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Remember to get a rollerized Griso. Check the production dates and models. The final version SE seem to have a little more sporty go than the others I've ridden. I've heard it's got a little different gearing (I'm not saying that it true but I'd appreciate the facts).
Yes the SE is very nice with the wire wheels and paintwork. It might seem I'm very negative about the Daytona/Centi engines but I'm really just trying to cut through the emotional side and save people from some grief. To me they are the best looking engine Guzzi ever made commercially and are a candidate for engineering refinement. These things are really for the committed owners with a large degree of engineering passion that dont mind stripping down engines for the pleasure of it and are well equipped to do so and dont mind spending more money on a machine than is sensibly justifiable. It's a level beyond the general maintenance and home tune up guy. Currently I'm slowly researching affordable options for remaking major components that are no longer available so people can keep these things on the road. Joe Caruso has done a great job with the oil pump and cam gears so there's a significant part of it and hopefully Joe keeps making them. This wont be a profit making prospect just a service to current and future owners.
Ciao
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I know it “can be” done with enough time and money; but, how difficult would it be to either put Centauro cloths on a Griso or a Griso 8V engine and electronics in a Centauro?
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TK by any chance did you just visit Watertown? They had a couple beautiful Centauros there last time thru. Every time I stop there I leave with visions of one more bike I’d love to own. Eye candy - brain torture, for the bike addict.
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I know it “can be” done with enough time and money; but, how difficult would it be to either put Centauro cloths on a Griso or a Griso 8V engine and electronics in a Centauro?
Not sure but very difficult I'd imagine either way. Putting the V10 engine in the V11 was challenging enough to do and make it look factory with retaining the airbox,bodywork, and V11 injection system and that required zero structural alterations.
The issue with a Hybrid like this isn't fitting the engine in the frame although that's obviously a challenge it's making it look "factory" and professional. Thats why you see so many hybrids with pod filters etc because they dont bother with the finicky painful stuff.
Ciao
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Hopefully you will be fine but the cylinder heads are the highest wear part of the engine and it's not oil pump related. I've never seen valve guide wear so bad in an engine as my centy when it was pulled down. We are talking .030" guide to valve stem clearance. Lifters are also another high failure item as well. If I was buying a Daytona/Centy engined bike with 50,000 klms on it I would be budgeting on new oil pump and cam drive assembly and new valves, guides and lifters at the very least. The cam drive and oil pump to prevent catastrophic failure and the valve gear to maintain it's performance and stop it becoming a rattly old lump. The guides valves and lifters would need to be non standard as well or in the case of the lifters, gas nitrided to improve the wear. A second hand 8 valve Guzzi is like buying a second hand bevel drive Ducati when it comes to the mitigation costs of the mechanical implications.
Mine at circa 35,000 km doesn’t show any current signs of top end wear, but thanks regardless for the details. If and when when it does need the heads redone, they’ll come off and I can work on them while riding my bevel SS instead :grin: That one is my second favorite bike, after the RS.
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Motorcycle Shop in Watertown has the 2 I was considering,priced to sell.