Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Castorp on July 23, 2020, 02:22:18 PM
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Hi to you all,
I have been interested in Guzzis and lurking here for a long while but I don't believe I have ever posted before.
I currently ride a 2009 ex500. I got it 4 year ago with 5k on it, and I've put about 70K miles more on it so far and it's been a good daily ride/beater bike/pack mule for touring. My only problems with it are 1). I Hate fixing broken plastics 2) Getting to the valves for the frequent checks takes a lot of work 3) it's not the greatest for 2 up riding and finally 4) though the engine has ever given me a problem, it's gonna wear out sooner or later, and from what I understand it's not the most rebuildable of motors. (Ex riders sometimes do, but generally recommend swapping them out with salvage engines instead)
So I've been thinking about bikes that might not have these problems, while keeping things I do like: simplicity,manageable power, reasonable weight/size. Dependability. And the two bikes that check all of these boxes, at least in theory, are the California 1100 and a used Sportster with mid controls (probably a rubber mounted). I keep hearing they're both easy to work on, and I like it. I keep hearing they're both really sturdy and long lasting. I like that too. They're both under 600lbs. So many things I hear, I like about both of these bikes.
But I have little experience with sportster (test ride only) and none with Moto Guzzi, so I don't know the reality. I've read enough of these forums to know that a lot of you have had sportsters in addition to guzzis. So I was hoping you all could help me, telling me things I might need to know.
To be clear: I need this bike for basic transportation and touring. I like to do all the maintenance myself. I am usually willing to learn to do repairs myself. And if I love it as much as I hope to love it, I want to hold onto it for a really long time (with luck). One of the things that attracts me to Guzzi are all those stories about all those super high mileage bikes.
Main concerns:
Am I going to have difficulty finding parts I will need for a California 1100?
Will I have to wait forever to get them?
Are they going to be terribly expensive?
How would you compare running costs between the two bikes?
For the purposes I describe (practical, simple, DIY transportation in the U.S.A), which do you think is best?
Many of the California 1100s in my area that come up for sale are generally "high" miles (50k +) from the 2000s. I know to ask for records if any. I know to look for signs of the bike has been crashed. But are there some more Guzzi-California 1100 specific things I should be looking for?
The sportys usually have much lower miles but have nearly always been customized and I woudl be looking one customized as much as possible the way I want.
I hope to be going to look at some bikes soon, but any experiences/info/advice/anecdotes/stories/recommendations you all could give would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
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Welcome, I had a 2009 Norge. Never stranded me, mostly pretty easy to maintain and overall a good ride. At my height and weight (5’3” 130#) I ended up tipping it over 3 times and that was enough for me. My 2017 Roadster is the first road bike I can flat foot. I had to raise the bars, change the seat, and purchase good shocks. If I try I can get 60mpg, maintenance is incredibly easy and it stops and turns well enough to keep me entertained. Parts and accessories are abundantly available and the dealer network can’t be beat. I was 6 hrs to my Moto Guzzi dealer and then he up and died... I would suggest test rides and choose the one that speaks to you. Best of luck on your search!
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For what you seem to be looking for, you can't go wrong with either option. I put 73K on a Guzzi 1100 and performed all my own maintenance including a clutch rebuild. Very satisfying machine to own.
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I don't consider a Sportster to be a serious motorcycle. They vibrate and don't much of anything well.
The California is jack of trade type of bike that is smooth, handles well, lots of fun and has many touring accessories.
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I don't consider a Sportster to be a serious motorcycle. They vibrate and don't much of anything well.
The California is jack of trade type of bike that is smooth, handles well, lots of fun and has many touring accessories.
What LowRyter said and don’t think about 2 up riding with a Sportie
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Ask yourself why all the Sportster have low mileage then seriously find a nice Guzzi. I'd suggest 1998 and later. Nothing wrong with the Call 1100 up to 98 but the EV got a few nice upgrades, tubeless rims, cheaper TPS, better Brembos etc..
the 2003 EV came with hydraulic lifters but do diligent research before you jump on one of them.
2000 Bassa one of my favorites.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Foto/i-zDQ6FXQ/0/20133c93/M/IMG_0500-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-zDQ6FXQ/A)
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I like sportsters.. But really Im not sure I would trade my 02 cali stone for one. Just as fun around town, and IMHO much nicer on the highway.
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Well the first few posters had it right then a couple of guys who know Jack about the modern Sporty had to chime in.
Starting in 04 the Sportster was reborn into an excellent motorcycle. It got better in 07 with EFI, better again in 14' with brake improvements, better again by 16 with suspension improvements.
That said our 05 and 07s, especially the 07 1200Lr were very good bikes and VERY comparable to my 00 Cali Jackal 1100.
As a matter of fact the Sporty was smoother and more comfortable than the Jackal, made similar power, and was close but second place to the Jackal in handling.
It also handled 2-up just as well as the Jackal, though we only tended to do that when Jenn and I had just dropped off another bike or a car for some reason.
You could go with either, though for ease of repair/maintenance on a daily commuter I would probably give the advantage to the Sportster.
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PS you see so many used ones because since 2004 they produced and sold around 1M of them.
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really liked my sportster and have only owned my ev11 for a short time so I can't claim to be an expert but I have opinions.
Long trips with some interstate travel---ev11.
Ease of maintenance --can't really comment on the ev11 as it came to me ready for the road, so I haven't done much to it but the sportser is hard to beat for ease of maintenance. No valve adjustment, belt drive, easy oil change.lot's of Harley dealers around so it's nice to walk into a place and buy parts instead of having to order them.
One thing I like about the Moto Guzzi is it's nice to be adding a little spice and variety to the motorcycle echo system instead of another HD
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If I wanted a seriously reliable motorcycle for commuting then I would get a Honda or a Yamaha.
Limiting the choices to a Moto Guzzi or a Harley Sportster - then I'd have to pick the Sportster. Reliable, easy to service, unbelievable parts, mechanical, and aftermarket support.
2007 or later would be my choice for a Sportster.
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One thing I like about the Moto Guzzi is it's nice to be adding a little spice and variety to the motorcycle echo system instead of another HD
It's one thing I like about my Guzzis too. You don't see yourself coming down the road the other way every 10 minutes. But that doesn't matter to some folks.
Lannis
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Interesting responses. Here is my .02. I wouldn't worry much about a Cali 1100 with 50k miles. They are good for many more. I have a 2001 EV with 75k, it shares the duties with another Guzzi a beemer and 3 HD.
That being said, I love the EV!!!
Now about the sportster, very underappreciated bikes. Sized really close to the 1100 Guzzis, very reliable, as much or more power......annndddd dd parts and accessories are everywhere.
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I looking at a 98 V11 EV tomorrow, xless than 20k, looks like great condition
What do you guys think?
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98 EV, solid work horse. Tubeless rims
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Hey KevM I know Jack.....see what I did there. :thumb:
inditx aka Jack
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Hey KevM I know Jack.....see what I did there. :thumb:
inditx aka Jack
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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(https://i.ibb.co/nfdnbGb/589-A8537-B269-4-B0-A-8810-8165532-CE581.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nfdnbGb)
Hey Lannis, not once in almost 25,000 miles have I seen myself coming down the road...
(https://i.ibb.co/QCdNjnS/8-C747186-1-CF6-4-C0-A-9378-DADA62-A6-FEEC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QCdNjnS)
:cool:
Not saying Guzzi isn’t a great choice, it is. How many Sportsters, Guzzis (motorcycles other than Goldwings) have you seen pulling a trailer? I pulled the same trailer with my Norge. And really, I don’t give a rat’s patutti...
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I have a 98 EV since 2009,it has turned 70,000 trouble free miles,allot of those 2 up and pulling a trailer i'm still on the original clutch,I vote EV.
I remember when it came out in 98 it was voted bike of the year for its category It beat out many good motorcycles for the title,one thing that always stuck in my head that they said the 98 EV it has the mother of all front ends,really robust.
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When you say "Daily ride/tourer" that sounds like a bike that might spend some time in the weather. I wouldn't do that to a nice Cali. I'd ride red. Go HONDA.
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the Sportster I had handled fine but I'm very pleasantly surprised at how well the Ev11 handles. can't go wrong either way.
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(https://photos.smugmug.com/All/i-m4mzfND/0/15f6c5e8/S/DSCN0227-S.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/All/i-m4mzfND/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/All/i-mfj43zk/0/9cd78d40/S/DSCN0310-S.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/All/i-mfj43zk/A)
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Well the first few posters had it right then a couple of guys who know Jack about the modern Sporty had to chime in.
Starting in 04 the Sportster was reborn into an excellent motorcycle. It got better in 07 with EFI, better again in 14' with brake improvements, better again by 16 with suspension improvements.
That said our 05 and 07s, especially the 07 1200Lr were very good bikes and VERY comparable to my 00 Cali Jackal 1100.
As a matter of fact the Sporty was smoother and more comfortable than the Jackal, made similar power, and was close but second place to the Jackal in handling.
It also handled 2-up just as well as the Jackal, though we only tended to do that when Jenn and I had just dropped off another bike or a car for some reason.
You could go with either, though for ease of repair/maintenance on a daily commuter I would probably give the advantage to the Sportster.
So you're agreeing that before '04 Sporsters were crap? And we know Californias have been consistently good bikes?
OK. And we don't know which years of either bikes the poster was looking for..... I'd say there is a single universal answer. And it ain't a Sportster.
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I’ve owned & been around motorcycles a long time, I haven’t seen too many Harleys with 250000 plus miles still running around. Most parts can be ordered online & in your hand in a few days. There is a great number of knowledgeable owners to ask questions or receive help from. I think the biggest value to Guzzi is the people. If all things were equal, I would choose Guzzi hands down. In my mind they are more reliable, stop better, handle better & are more unique. Anyone can own a Harley. I would encourage you to go to a rally or a monthly Guzzi gathering & check it out. What part of the country are you in?
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Kevin M and Kev m?
Oh screw me. I need apologize to someone but not the other.
The Cali
(https://g2.img-dpreview.com/E118847B9B2E4890852FBE215A228ABE.jpg)
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So you're agreeing that before '04 Sporsters were crap? And we know Californias have been consistently good bikes?
Crap? I dunno, one man's garbage is another man's treasure.
To me the solidmount ones definitely fit the bill you sold a lot more. I mean I had a 93 for 2.5 years (93-95), put 40k on it (commuting, touring, 2-up etc.) and when I sold it I swore I WOULD NOT BUY ANOTHER. Yeah, it vibrated, like put your hands and feet to sleep vibrated. That and some limited suspension was the biggest problem.
That said, I later softened that stance and with multiple bikes in the garage I could happily own a solidmount for "local" duty.
OK. And we don't know which years of either bikes the poster was looking for..... I'd say there is a single universal answer. And it ain't a Sportster.
I dunno, the single universal answer thing seems to be pulling at straws. And what year? What does it matter, both the early-rubbermount Sportys and the Tonti Cali's have bottomed in value. You can pick up a decent version of either for around $2-3k.
That said, my less than stellar experience with the ancillary components on my Tonti Cali would likely push ME toward a Sporty. Not that a Cali couldn't/wouldn't fit the bill. But when I sold my Jackal I was at a point where I didn't think I could ever own 2 Guzzis again at the same time, and I was positive I would NEVER own JUST ONE, because I would want/need a spare. Thankfully that has gotten better with each subsequent Guzzi I've owned.
My big question for the OP is how hands on he wants to be with his bike, does he have support in the way of a DECENT local shop (someone big enough in the Guzzi world that we know them) and how much is he screwed if it lets him down? You can't escape the fact that there's support for HD's everywhere in this country and that parts are generally much more available. Of course barring something bizarre it's not hard to get MOST things for a Cali.
I think it comes down to the OP, his wants/needs, and the particular bike.
I’ve owned & been around motorcycles a long time, I haven’t seen too many Harleys with 250000 plus miles still running around. Most parts can be ordered online & in your hand in a few days. There is a great number of knowledgeable owners to ask questions or receive help from. I think the biggest value to Guzzi is the people. If all things were equal, I would choose Guzzi hands down. In my mind they are more reliable, stop better, handle better & are more unique. Anyone can own a Harley. I would encourage you to go to a rally or a monthly Guzzi gathering & check it out. What part of the country are you in?
Look the truth is MOST people don't ride a bike 100k, never mine 200k. That said you will stumble across a Guzzi, a BMW, a Harley, and YES a 2006 Rubbermount Sporty with that kind of miles (actually this one I wrote about is not even the first I encountered):
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/would-you-ride-the-iron-butt-rally-on-a-sportster
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For the riding you say you want to do, you already nailed it down to two bikes that will meet the need. I think it really boils down to the ACTUAL motorcycles you find once you get started.
KevM shared already that his Jackal (2000-2001 bare bones Cali 1100) had a lot of issues that regularly needed addressing. That's the opposite of my experience, but only because I bought well (25K on the clock, and from a pro mechanic) so it was fully sorted. In my 7 years of ownership I've had a snapped throttle cable and a bad relay. In both cases I had OEM parts in 48 hours, so MY experience with the bike has been excellent. Through this forum and being generally sociable, I also have a group of VERY knowledgeable friends in both the cyber and literal sense, so I'm comfortable with the 'risk'. I'm happy doing my own maintenance, and with the aforementioned friends close-by, If i get in trouble, I'll have good council.
Check these sites for pricing on things you think you may need, from gaskets to controls to brake pads. They'll get the parts in out the door the day you order in most cases, and know our machines inside and out. You can decided if that's adequate parts support for the do it yourselfer. No debate that the Harley gets you better parts and service options, particularly if you're a checkbook rider.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=index
http://www.harpermoto.com/
Man o man, do I love riding my bike. Loaded for camping, Two up, or naked for local geo tagging, I simply don't NEED any thing else.
(https://i.imgur.com/9PEkqlG.png)
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KevM shared already that his Jackal (2000-2001 bare bones Cali 1100) had a lot of issues that regularly needed addressing. That's the opposite of my experience, but only because I bought well (25K on the clock, and from a pro mechanic) so it was fully sorted.
TO BE FAIR.... I can't say if my Jackal was an outlier because of the BIKE or it's history.
I bought FROM A DEALER, with ~1k miles on it.
But the bike was 3 years old, and it was from FL - might have sat out in the sun, too close to the ocean for a few years.
Still in 40k miles I had to:
* Fork seals (leaked on the way home)
* Shocks (leaked oil on the first trip)
* Replace all rubber hoses, started with cracking breathers but eventually included fuel lines.
* Replace the braided steel breather hoses too
* Ignition switch (crapped out on the Blue Ridge Parkway)
* Battery (ok that's typical)
* Regulator (long after the battery)
* Starter
* Rear fender rusted through by year 3 or 4
* Spokes and rims were rusted by year 1 or 2
* Rear main was dripping by year 1 or 2 (never fixed, never got THAT bad)
* Constant issues with the stupid steel ball actuated front brake switch, until I go smart and replaced it with a pressure switch
* Tail Light - first the turn signals broke the housing, then the housing was basically crumbling around the lights as I attempted to save it. Eventually gave up and replaced fender and tail light with custom pieces.
Meanwhile the seat remained a torture rack the whole life of the bike.
It was cosmetically challenged from a design standpoint.
I spent years getting it right in terms of bags, racks, backrest, windshields, mirrors, powdercoating and painting stuff... etc etc etc
STILL, in all that, the BIKE ITSELF, like rolling down the road, was FANTASTIC. The motor was SOLID, the chassis strong and capable.
Somehow it remains one of the favorite bikes I ever owned DESPITE the trials and tribulations. But the tribulations eventually won and broke me.
A few pics - BEFORE - AFTER - OTHERS
NEW:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e4-PEX1-ZjDIuDWVYWwP9TwWJvNTsfEQjGCKiJsVmbhdGXdf-CjInL6zP1kLgY74O1mY0Z_No8hEzIG9CqxtAJop2_Djbl-YW2q2jJoGmXH5vuovUUQTWoB6YfYKW3oKQ3F2NBjzt7gL5NU3dUbpBDJA=w1024-h768-no?authuser=0)
Blue Ridge - Making a New Ignition Switch
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f7IiFc8WbgYhP9LYvQ2tCW8IAl0M4ZtDJ5KgnJ2vELtKMOGmk0ojQKUKHaUANe9QGtwk8tagqI2fBnjke1Fv_hrx-TIgSTCNGemmEU2dRUSI-ZOTi_c7cCUCs39HpkRVVpMygGeCf84L9ZKIVGLZe8EA=w678-h903-no?authuser=0)
Something Old, Something New, Nothing Borrowed, Trying not to sing the Blues:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fKRkXLRBM-_rXpKSRKKz5XevLv2DGqJsT_F-_vMTz4mlgWxxO5Xxc97hA9pz5FmVQ5kEHeSK15Hw8z4F1M3RUTdYbSh2m__-N_BtghriBFi1aS7vj1J9G8L3l2gWsJ-hqvGZjns_zsh-TdrGq4rP7yQQ=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0)
Sometimes you just need a drink:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fNOhZqqXN4O7MH2daduFNNF1lqNmZEGYMYbSGmiY74McG1tMFNIHAejMy3ILyf5F7UIQrZlVosOXC_C0EHf66BSnjo-ADGSuObC_P6iVBMDerUNlGwePhPKt5PcE3EdFCvjdtzldVHpKUYPv44Rs1q-w=w1209-h903-no?authuser=0)
Meanwhile it shared the stable with this (among others):
Most of the years I owned the Jackal it shared the garage with this (among others):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ciC5vgI9hvxpZ8_tZ8r_0wO8eag5GVhvPO3IDsM5Z5s4oonsbus7ya3gCD5nLGcGd4Xu-JE-8OQF6eAIg48ovRn7jcT7JQPITzCjQgxNfdSN9Ph4K8C-jXtsJbw8ECB8jnk3Ou31-nJa6PIoW6J4p_jQ=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0)
It would still be in the fleet if I hadn't bought an RK making it redundant:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fDP5Pi-NVzXzkz9x6v4SQajDE0cA9KlOAcsl5VHnkPPiUFADfselbd_E_JHXMbApWW0XMmcW2cNK8ZvNKI9LJDGm5ikvf1S_VnEy8TxMRndkpCupOrx7fx8ZpEzYDavGDaiPqL7_fRVbHAx61lykkLmg=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0)
Still, after I sold the Jackal Guzzi was kind enough to come out with something that seemed to address everything the Jackal was lacking (for me):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f--C6kSBlcXyXrIJflRS47M2B0tukk26hgD0FKs7fqSeAmcW0iU9NUmWPTS54OA5EcOMYwARwVFfiE6-MaaZPPwZFHCyB35MksFFdKnH1sDUT6j901Za7XyFh0vYIsLUygDTp8tpaLxpI2QrjT7UFbxQ=w1204-h903-no?authuser=0)
But I DO THINK MOST of my experience with the Jackal was an outlier and that a Cali Tonti CAN be a great/reliable machine. I just don't think I would take the risk if it were to be the ONE AND ONLY COMMUTER. (Now if the EX is staying around as backup, go for it).
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Just for some balance , my Jackal is currently taking a long break with 150K miles or so under her wheels and never even took a day off until she had about 90 K miles .
Dusty
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thanks so much to you all for the responses and the pics!
Kev m, to answer your question, I want to be "hands on"--and I want to very free from dependence on shops and dealerships. I started out knowing nothing, but with the ex500 I ride now I learned to do valve checks, rear suspension service, replaced all the bearings and steering stem bearing, rebuilt forks, replaced tires and chains and cables and lines, rebuilt calipers, and I'm sure I did other service items I'm forgetting--but I have never been past the valves in the engine. I did all of that because I had pretty awful experiences at both shops and dealerships in the beginning. I realized it was better and cheaper to do the work myself and I decided that when I got another bike it would be more a pleasure to work on than the kawi. I heard that the guzzis were this way--simple to work on--and that's the attraction for me. The other thing is durability. I've been riding the ex500 70k and I feel like I'm still getting to know the thing in many ways, and I think: it's a shame this engine won't last three times as long. So I read about those high mileage guzzis and thought: ah ha. And I also read years ago the Common Tread piece you linked. That's one of the first things to get me interested in sportys. What scares me about the guzzi is all the talk about uneven quality. I truly do not want something that's going to leave me stranded on the side of the road. If I can fix it on the side of the road, that's okay. And again I don't want to be dependent on specialist mechanic. Coming here for advice is fantastic, but I want to be able to do things myself most of the time. That's one of the main reasons I'm considering these two bikes. And I'm posting here in part to see if people with real experience think what I'm thinkinng about them is true.
Oh, and I think you mentioned weather. I ride all over the Southeastern U.S.A. And I plan to go beyond. I will be riding in heavy rains sometimes. I will ride in very hight heat--stop and go traffic in 100 plus temps. I also ride when it's in the 30s. Pretty cold. Would any of this be a problem for the guzzi? I wonder if the traffic and high heat situations woudl be bad for the sporty too.
At least two of you mention Hondas and/or Yamahas are the really dependable bikes. I don't doubt it. In fact another bike on my list (behind the guzzi and sporty) is an Nc700x. Main objection is the plastic. I am so tired of patching plastic--and looking at plastic I have badly patched and "touched up" with paint. And having to remove plastic. And having to put the plastic back on... The nc700 would work for me in every other respect, I suspect. I think the sportys and guzzis are better looking but honestly I coudl look past that--but not more plastic. I look at other Japanese motorcycles with interest but it always falls short in some way. I don't want difficult-to-get-to valves. I do not want to deal with shims. I think the linkages in the rear suspensionn of these bikes is more complicated--and more time-consuming to service-- than I anyway need them to be and I look at the exposed rear shocks on the guzzis and sportys and think: yeah.
Speaking of looks, I'm looking at the pics you all have posted of your Cali's and they really are such beautiful bikes. I'm TRYING not to be seduced by looks alone.
Another question, I may go look at one of the californias next week--one is a 2002 stone--can y'all give a guzzi noob any tips on what to look for and be on the look out for? I have read the advice on the This Old TRactor site, and i know some of the basic things to look for when buying used bike in general. But if there are some specific guzzi warning signs for california's of this era, I'd love to hear them.
Thanks to you all again. This is great site!
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Kev m, thank you. You've touched on the real issue I wasn't getting to. I do want the bike to be my one and only, partly because of lack of garage space, partly because I like to keep things as simple as possible--so I am definitely weighing in what you're saying about the Jackal.
But I'm weighing in Dusty's and other totally postive experiences too...
Needless to say I'd like to wind up with a postive experience bike.
Again, beautiful bikes. Love the white on that Sporty.
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Dusty makes a fair and balanced point!
thanks so much to you all for the responses and the pics!
Kev m, to answer your question, I want to be "hands on"--and I want to very free from dependence on shops and dealerships. I started out knowing nothing, but with the ex500 I ride now I learned to do valve checks, rear suspension service, replaced all the bearings and steering stem bearing, rebuilt forks, replaced tires and chains and cables and lines, rebuilt calipers, and I'm sure I did other service items I'm forgetting--but I have never been past the valves in the engine. I did all of that because I had pretty awful experiences at both shops and dealerships in the beginning. I realized it was better and cheaper to do the work myself and I decided that when I got another bike it would be more a pleasure to work on than the kawi. I heard that the guzzis were this way--simple to work on--and that's the attraction for me. The other thing is durability. I've been riding the ex500 70k and I feel like I'm still getting to know the thing in many ways, and I think: it's a shame this engine won't last three times as long. So I read about those high mileage guzzis and thought: ah ha. And I also read years ago the Common Tread piece you linked. That's one of the first things to get me interested in sportys. What scares me about the guzzi is all the talk about uneven quality. I truly do not want something that's going to leave me stranded on the side of the road. If I can fix it on the side of the road, that's okay. And again I don't want to be dependent on specialist mechanic. Coming here for advice is fantastic, but I want to be able to do things myself most of the time. That's one of the main reasons I'm considering these two bikes. And I'm posting here in part to see if people with real experience think what I'm thinkinng about them is true.
Oh, and I think you mentioned weather. I ride all over the Southeastern U.S.A. And I plan to go beyond. I will be riding in heavy rains sometimes. I will ride in very hight heat--stop and go traffic in 100 plus temps. I also ride when it's in the 30s. Pretty cold. Would any of this be a problem for the guzzi? I wonder if the traffic and high heat situations woudl be bad for the sporty too.
You sound like the perfect candidate for a Guzzi. I would encourage you to seek one out and give it a try.
Tips: 2002 is fine, watch out for 03-04 Hydros, they MAY be GREAT bikes, but you would first have to confirm the recall was done and done properly (with help from this board). Before around 2002 or so the bikes were open-loop EFI which is even more simple and robust and run cooler. But there's nothing wrong with the 06-?!? Cali 1100s like the Cal-Vin, Black Eagle etc. They are great bikes too with closed-loop EFi and a bit more power too from the Breva 1100 engine internals.
Glad that one of my Common Tread pieces had an effect on you.
No, I do not believe weather or heat or traffic would be an issue EITHER on a Sporty or Cali 1100.
Good luck with the search and keep reaching out.
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Just going by my 02 stone... even though mine had low miles, its still age. Your going to want to plan to replace a lot of the hoses. Other then that ive done sorting... loose bolts, a shifter linkedge ball end was bad, new tires... one caliper slide was stuck.. head bearings loose. all at about 10K mles.. It seemed to sit a long time. Easy stuff, and Guzzi's are a great bike to work on mostly. Really only big issues ive had are all from getting it running better after mods from the past owners... Its before the hydro lifter recall of the 03-04.. I not think the 02 had the single disc clutch issue... is so if it has any miles on it it would have been delt with by now..
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Rubber mount 1200 XL's are a real good all rounder. The pix Kev m posted of the white one is set up nice. Mag wheels easy to fix a flat on the road, dual discs. For 2 up add a detach backrest. A Corbin gunfighter & lady seat all day comfort. mid-controls with highway pegs on the engine guard give you a place to stretch the knees. :thumb:
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I've owned both, two Californias ('98 and '03) and an '04 XL1200R (Roadster). IMO, the major difference between the two is that the Cali is a more comfortable highway bike and the Sporty would be my preference for in town and commuting duty. Both are great machines and their character/souls are quite similar. If I was only going to have one bike though and rely on it for every day transportation, I'd go for the Harley simply because of the availability of support and parts.
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A bike that is stone reliable, requires only minimal maintenance, easily hits 100K with no problems: Honda CB750. Don't laugh. I bought a used '92 from my cousin with 18K on it. I put another 45K on it with the only thing done outside of normal maintenance and was a chain and sprocket set. Pic is at Yosemite.
(https://i.ibb.co/NTPMRxG/DSCN0648.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NTPMRxG)
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A bike that is stone reliable, requires only minimal maintenance, easily hits 100K with no problems: Honda CB750. Don't laugh. I bought a used '92 from my cousin with 18K on it. I put another 45K on it with the only thing done outside of normal maintenance and was a chain and sprocket set. Pic is at Yosemite.
(https://i.ibb.co/NTPMRxG/DSCN0648.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NTPMRxG)
No question that 750 Nighthawk is a great bike and deceptively fast too. And needs no maintenance or set up.
This is a Guzzi forum and the Cali is the best all around bike for touring and commuting vs the the Honda and the Harley. And that is objectively true in any other forum. The caveat is that the Cali has been set up by the previous owner. My guess if the Cali has 25k miles, it's probably set up. Certainly the the Nighthawk is better than a Sportster.
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"objectively better" depends on the metrics being measured.
Few mechanical things in life are "objectively better" than everything else because people value different things.
If they didn't politics would be easy.
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"objectively better" depends on the metrics being measured.
Few mechanical things in life are "objectively better" than everything else because people value different things.
If they didn't politics would be easy.
butter
:popcorn:
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butter
:popcorn:
:drool:
Mmmmmmm butter...
It's almost as good as Bacon.
But bacon is "better". :evil:
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:drool:
Mmmmmmm butter...
It's almost as good as Bacon.
But bacon is "better". :evil:
''
Bacon on popcorn? No wonder you're a Harley guy.
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Chill fellas , it's hot and humid here and I am grouchy .
Dusty
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Hopefully turning this discussion back to something helpful.......
My first Guzzi "Mistress" only left me stranded once when the gearbox/clutch had an issue. Yes I did have a dealer close by as I was on a ride in NORCAL but that was the only time she ever let me down. She is now owned by Dusty with over 150k.
My second Guzzi "Giada" was a fly and ride. Flew to Seattle and had a wonderful trip back to home via back roads. Bought her with 27k or so and then donated her as the raffle bike at Cedar Vale with just over 100k miles.
My 16 V7II "Olivia" I bought new (the only bike I ever bought new) and have been having a blast on her. She is my daily rider. The ride to work is 15 miles but the ride home could be 15-75 miles!!
I have had many Hondas in my life. CB175, CJ360, CB550, GL1000 (which I had MANY problems with) and a CB900C...probably my favorite Honda. All pretty reliable and all daily riders.
There was something about Mistress when I was looking for a bike...not looking for any particular brand....but I saw her listed on Munroe Motors San Francisco website in 2001 and went to take a look. From the first time I sat on her I knew that was the bike for me.
To this day the Guzzi sickness continues!! The V7II is by far the most "flickable" and fun bike I've ever owned. We have a lot of great roads here in NORCAL and Olivia loves every one of them.
The ease of maintenance, the fun factor and the availability of parts through our great vendors online and off is why I am such a fan of Guzzi.
There are a lot of great bikes...the hard part is finding one the "speaks" and fits YOU. For me it's Guzzi.
Ride safe and often,
Jeff
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Put your egos away or I will do it for you . Are we clear ?
Dusty
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Yes Sir.
Peace brother. Ride safe. :thumb:
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Thanks
Dusty
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Thanks to you all again. I am reading (and re-reading) your replies, admiring the pics, and exploring links given.(Thanks for the links to the Guzzi parts places). I'm also reading about what each bike would involve--tire sizes and availability on the cali, belt vs shaft (I know only chains). Either bike is gonna be a new world to me--so the comments here are a great help.
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In the end all things mechanical can be problematic . Either bike properly sorted will give good service .
Oddly enough , the Guzzi will have a less sanitized feel to it than a modern Sportster , for all of the mythology surrounding Harley Davidson , how the MoCo has been the builder of raw motorbikes that are extremely visceral , the newer Harley Davidsons are really kinda tame . The Guzzi will feel more connected to you , more mechanical feeling , like it's something alive . The rubber mount Sportsters are reliable machines , but they won't speak to you like an old big block Moto Guzzi .
Just my .02 ,
Dusty
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These are just a few thoughts and opinions. I have been riding motorcycles since the early 70’s. And have had many makes and models. I have made friends with many people riding motorcycles. But, I have never met or have I ever seen a sportster with 100k+ on the clock. People who ride Moto Guzzi’s with 100k+ on the clock are like chicken poop. They are everywhere. The same with the HD baggers. I have a 83 flht that just got the top end done this week after 41k,but that is the nature of the Shovelhead and I won’t give that one up. To me,an awesome touring machine if you are not in a hurry. If you truely want a dependable long lasting bike with no plastic, buy an old airhead and learn how to keep it alive. My 81 r100rt has 141k on the clock, and the fun I had on it was probably by accident . I don’t ride it as much anymore, only a couple of trips a year.
If you buy a California model, and get the bugs worked out if any,the more miles you put on it the more it grows on ya. I bought my 94 Cali 1100 3 yrs ago and it is my bike of choice to ride everyday. It is snappy like a sportster, pulls some what like my Harley, and so far easier to maintain and as dependable as my BMW.
The Guzzi rallies are the best. I have always, always had a good time. Kinda like the old Honda commercial. You meet the nicest people on a Guzzi. I have never seen or been to a sportster rally, what are they like?
Last comment not fair, yes I have been to HD rallies, I don’t need or have the feeling to dress up like a pirate anymore.
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My take, broken down for the simple man.
If you are a horse person:
The HD would be a foundation Quarter horse.
The MG a Tennessee Walker.
If you are a cyclist:
The HD a mountain bike.
The MG an ole Schwinn varsity.
If a musician is your thing:
HD an upright doghouse bass
MG a D25 Martin.
A carpenter:
HD, builds homes
MG, builds churches.
That’s the way I see it, broke down for a simpleton like myself.
opinions can very without hard feelings 👍
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Head or heart? Fun or function? Back in 1999, I had a Sportster and was on a waiting list for a Dyna (remember when?). I took a test ride on a Guzzi, cancelled the Dyna, and never looked back.
Rich A
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(https://www.nyconthecheap.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/grumpy-old-men.jpg)
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I know 3 people with over 100k on rubbermount Sportys. Two of them with over 200k.
I'm not sure I've met IRL someone with over 100k on a single Guzzi yet. Maybe I have and just didn't know it.
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Thanks to you all again. I am reading (and re-reading) your replies, admiring the pics, and exploring links given.(Thanks for the links to the Guzzi parts places). I'm also reading about what each bike would involve--tire sizes and availability on the cali, belt vs shaft (I know only chains). Either bike is gonna be a new world to me--so the comments here are a great help.
Where in Fl.??
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I know 3 people with over 100k on rubbermount Sportys. Two of them with over 200k.
I'm not sure I've met IRL someone with over 100k on a single Guzzi yet. Maybe I have and just didn't know it.
There are at least 4 WG members that have done that , and a couple of guys that don't have pooters who have done the trick . Hell , memory says the Turnip has done the feat on 2 or 3 Guzzis .
Dusty
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Bodine, Central FL, north of Orlando.
Dusty, I have heard similar arguments made for the older frame mounted Sportsters. I have not had the chance to ride one of those. I shy away thinking they might be too visceral--especially for my passenger. Hoping to find a california "just right."
Ncdan, I used to ride Tennesee Walkers growing up--as well various "mutts" with Tennesse Walker in them. So I'm getting a rough idea.
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(https://photos.smugmug.com/All/i-m4mzfND/0/15f6c5e8/S/DSCN0227-S.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/All/i-m4mzfND/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/All/i-mfj43zk/0/9cd78d40/S/DSCN0310-S.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/All/i-mfj43zk/A)
Foto that looks like a really long tongue ( thread drift).
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Bodine, Central FL, north of Orlando.
Dusty, I have heard similar arguments made for the older frame mounted Sportsters. I have not had the chance to ride one of those. I shy away thinking they might be too visceral--especially for my passenger. Hoping to find a california "just right."
Ncdan, I used to ride Tennesee Walkers growing up--as well various "mutts" with Tennesse Walker in them. So I'm getting a rough idea.
True , but a Guzzi will smooth out with RPM's , and older Sportster shakes more with speed . Once again , the new Sportsters are fine machines , just kinda boring .
There was a couple picking up a used Bassa from our old dealer in Tulsa circa 2003 . He had several HD tattoos , she did also , which made me curious as to why they were buying the Bassa . Apparently a friend had talked him into riding his California , the guy said "At the first cloverleaf (Wichita not many curves) the decision was made for him , the Guzzi connected him to the road in a way that no Harley ever could" .
Dusty
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From an ease of ownership standpoint, it’s difficult to do better than a H-D. Dealer and aftermarket support is by far the best available. Period. The used bike selection is amazing as well.
Moto Guzzi ownership is nearly the polar opposite of a Harley. A few great dealers with very limited aftermarket support and suitable bikes available.
Most of the other brands typically fall in between these extremes. Some of the better questions are:
what type of dealer/parts/maintenance/aftermarket support do you actually require?
Then try to base that off the particular brand and bike you select. Seeking H-D advise on a Moto Guzzi forum can be a bit tricky as you can see above. Like asking about a possible Chevy purchase on an Opel forum.
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A question I have about the california... It does influence my choice. Tires. I keep reading, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what type tires these bikes use on the rear. I see spoked wheels and I think: tubes. But some seem to be tubeless spoked wheels and others are not. And for the rear tire I am finding a limited selection in that size.(bridgestone and kendas) And I'm not sure all of those will work with tubes (if indeed the bike requires tube tires). And then I find that some of these tires even in the right size don't clear the shaft and won't work.. And then I read some people use a slighly different sized tire for various reasons... The one I hope to see this week is an 02 california stone...... Is tire choice and issue with this bike?
Thanks again to you all.
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The EV models have tubeless spoke wheels. Some models require tubes. Many run Metzler 880 and get really good mileage.
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Low is right and I wouldn't let tires make your decision. You CAN get tubeless wheels and you can find decent tires in appropriate sizes for a Cali.
There are at least 4 WG members that have done that , and a couple of guys that don't have pooters who have done the trick . Hell , memory says the Turnip has done the feat on 2 or 3 Guzzis .
Dusty
To be clear, I'm not doubting they exist. I'm just pointing out the lack of coming across them doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means they may run in a different demographic.
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Low is right and I wouldn't let tires make your decision. You CAN get tubeless wheels and you can find decent tires in appropriate sizes for a Cali.
To be clear, I'm not doubting they exist. I'm just pointing out the lack of coming across them doesn't mean they don't exist. It just meanss tthey may run in a different demographic.
Dusty's got 100k+ on his Jackal. It needs tail lights.
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Thanks to you both. When I searched for the 880, I was finding the JP-Revzilla-Cyclegear conglomerate was all out of stock--but searching deeper i'm finding it other places. I wonder if the virus has held up supply lines.
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Dusty's got 100k+ on his Jackal. It needs tail lights.
150,000
Dusty
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I just put Michelin Pilot Activs on my 2003 Cal Titanium, no issues finding the right size. Tubes are required with the wheels I have. Cycle Gear got the tires, and was able to do the mount & balance.
Dave
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Just my two cents:
1 - My 2003 Cali EV has tubeless, both front and rear, Michelin brand. I've done about 14.000km with them, no handling prob and still with 2mm thread on them.
2 - Stand out of the crowd: buy a Guzzi.
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In the end all things mechanical can be problematic . Either bike properly sorted will give good service .
Oddly enough , the Guzzi will have a less sanitized feel to it than a modern Sportster , for all of the mythology surrounding Harley Davidson , how the MoCo has been the builder of raw motorbikes that are extremely visceral , the newer Harley Davidsons are really kinda tame . The Guzzi will feel more connected to you , more mechanical feeling , like it's something alive . The rubber mount Sportsters are reliable machines , but they won't speak to you like an old big block Moto Guzzi .
Just my .02 ,
Dusty
You all may remember a few years ago I bought a 2001 Sportster. It was a lower mileage bike that needed some minor repairs. I disliked the mid foot controls so made decent rear sets, Koni rear shocks, fiddled with the front suspension, tuned the engine and a two into one Supertrapp exhaust.The changes made the bike a good ride on back roads. The rigid mount engine heavy vibration came on just over 65 mph. I tried really hard hard to like the bike but it had that subtle Harley numbness. It's hard to describe and perhaps just me but it was similar to the Shovelheads I owned in the past...
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A question I have about the california... It does influence my choice. Tires. I keep reading, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what type tires these bikes use on the rear. I see spoked wheels and I think: tubes. But some seem to be tubeless spoked wheels and others are not. And for the rear tire I am finding a limited selection in that size.(bridgestone and kendas) And I'm not sure all of those will work with tubes (if indeed the bike requires tube tires). And then I find that some of these tires even in the right size don't clear the shaft and won't work.. And then I read some people use a slighly different sized tire for various reasons... The one I hope to see this week is an 02 california stone...... Is tire choice and issue with this bike?
Thanks again to you all.
OK, so having a 02 stone myself, and just putting tires on it.. OK, I think it was 01, they added a little extra room in the rear for a slightly bigger tire. A 140/80-17. That size is out there, but not as common as some. The older ones had a 130/90-17. Really they are almost the same just a tick different width. I used the older 130/90 on my 02 stone and they work great. Olenty of room, and can get a tire anywhere. The EV model had special tubeless rims. The spokes go into the outer rim of the wheel, not the center like most. Stones, Jackals, and later Cal vintage bikes are tube type. Now you can adapt the tube type to tubeless.I did, but thats a whole different matter that has been discussed in a lot of different threads. SO dont sweat the tires.. Not a deal killer.
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Thanks for the tip on the Michelins!
Paul, thank you. I was wondering if a 130 would work. On the tubes.. You are saying a 02 stone with spokes does require them? I will ask the owner when I go to see it, to be sure. Either way, tube or tubeless, I am okay with it so long as there are at least a handful of tire choices and y'all are showing me that there are--especially if I have the option of 130s too.
Dusty, earlier in this thread, I believe you said your bike didn't get a rest until 90k. What did you have to do at 90K?
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Thanks for the tip on the Michelins!
Paul, thank you. I was wondering if a 130 would work. On the tubes.. You are saying a 02 stone with spokes does require them? I will ask the owner when I go to see it, to be sure. Either way, tube or tubeless, I am okay with it so long as there are at least a handful of tire choices and y'all are showing me that there are--especially if I have the option of 130s too.
Dusty, earlier in this thread, I believe you said your bike didn't get a rest until 90k. What did you have to do at 90K?
There is a story behind the Black Jackal , but I won't bore you with the entire tale .
The previous owner had the bike at 90K , it required a transmission bearing so they did the clutch when they were in there .
The '02 Stone we raffled off last year at the WG National had 94K miles and came from the same PO , it only needed steering neck bearings and a little TLC . I only rode it twice in Cedar Vale for a few miles , but it ran and handled like a new bike .
Dusty
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Thanks for the tip on the Michelins!
Paul, thank you. I was wondering if a 130 would work. On the tubes.. You are saying a 02 stone with spokes does require them? I will ask the owner when I go to see it, to be sure. Either way, tube or tubeless, I am okay with it so long as there are at least a handful of tire choices and y'all are showing me that there are--especially if I have the option of 130s too.
Dusty, earlier in this thread, I believe you said your bike didn't get a rest until 90k. What did you have to do at 90K?
Yes stock the stone uses tubes. Just look at the rim.. if the spokes go in the center of the rim, like most motorcycles and bicycles... its the tube type rims.. the tubeless guzzy rims have the spokes going into the side of the rim. If anything the 130 made mine handle better... but could just be the fact that a] they are new..b] I adjusted the head bearings and c] I raised the fork tubes up a little in the triples.. But all that really means that I have seen zero downsides to the smaller size. Some tell me the slightly taller 130 also corrects the speedo errors from the 140's.. But I did not check before or after so I cant say thats true.
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just to add to the sample set:
2000 Jackal
Michelin Pilot Activ's (2nd set I've run)
140/80-17 rear
110/90-18 front
Original tube rims.
on mileage, my cousin's got a G5 pushing 180K that he just did some work too.
There' a fella from Illinois, Paul, retired his California 1100 at over 300K and bought a 1400. He posted recently that he's already over 100k on it. I wanna say its a 2015. Handy Andy let go of an early carburated California, one of the rare 'LeMans Cam' bikes, with 150k or thereabouts on the clock.
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I currently ride a 2009 ex500. I got it 4 year ago with 5k on it, and I've put about 70K miles more on it so far and it's been a good daily ride/beater bike/pack mule for touring. My only problems with it are 1). I Hate fixing broken plastics 2) Getting to the valves for the frequent checks takes a lot of work 3) it's not the greatest for 2 up riding and finally 4) though the engine has ever given me a problem, it's gonna wear out sooner or later, and from what I understand it's not the most rebuildable of motors. (Ex riders sometimes do, but generally recommend swapping them out with salvage engines instead)
Not sure why you have to keep fixing broken plastics unless you are dropping the bike. :shocked:
Have you considered a Kawasaki Voyager XII? They were made through 2003 and can be had for around $3000. Great touring bike and light enough with low enough seat height for commuting. They have Hydraulic Valves and shaft drive so very little maintenance. Also, many examples that have gone 300,000 miles, but you can still find some some with 50,000 miles or less on them. You can get info at the American Voyager Association forum.
The Kawasaki Vulcan 1600 motorcycles are tried and true with hydraulic valves and shaft drive as well. They are more the cruiser like the Guzzi and Harley you are looking at.
I found the Sportsters to be too small for my 5'!!" frame or I would definitely own a 72 model.
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Not sure why you have to keep fixing broken plastics unless you are dropping the bike. :shocked:
Have you considered a Kawasaki Voyager XII? They were made through 2003 and can be had for around $3000. Great touring bike and light enough with low enough seat height for commuting. They have Hydraulic Valves and shaft drive so very little maintenance. Also, many examples that have gone 300,000 miles, but you can still find some some with 50,000 miles or less on them. You can get info at the American Voyager Association forum.
The Voyager X11 specs say 790 pounds curb weight...that's light ?
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150,000
Dusty
needs tail lights
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needs tail lights
Doesn't matter when everyone is 1/2 mile behind .
Dusty
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The Voyager X11 specs say 790 pounds curb weight...that's light ?
Light for a touring bike. Felt light to me. Very low CG. Fuel is under the seat. Felt like riding a 750.
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Thank you, Paul. Now I know how to tell when a spoke wheel uses tube or not. I needed to learn that.
And thanks for the additonal tire/mileage reports. Very encouraging.
Twowheeladdict: yes, I do drop the bike. I ride occassionally on sugar sand roads, gravel roads, mud, you name it. so it happens. Now and then. I also do parking lot drills to help keep skills sharp. If I get a guzzi, the first mod I will make is adding crash bars and saddle bag guards--and I will put those little doughnuts on those--and I won't expect any of it to stay shiny and nice for long. I don't mind scratches, dents, etc. That's character. But plastic breaks.
Thank you, I have looked at the Voyagers but they are too heavy for me, with pegs/boards too far forward. I want to like them because of the deals but I dont' think I could sit in that position for long.
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Thank you, Paul. Now I know how to tell when a spoke wheel uses tube or not. I needed to learn that.
And thanks for the additonal tire/mileage reports. Very encouraging.
Twowheeladdict: yes, I do drop the bike. I ride occassionally on sugar sand roads, gravel roads, mud, you name it. so it happens. Now and then. I also do parking lot drills to help keep skills sharp. If I get a guzzi, the first mod I will make is adding crash bars and saddle bag guards--and I will put those little doughnuts on those--and I won't expect any of it to stay shiny and nice for long. I don't mind scratches, dents, etc. That's character. But plastic breaks.
Thank you, I have looked at the Voyagers but they are too heavy for me, with pegs/boards too far forward. I want to like them because of the deals but I dont' think I could sit in that position for long.
Starting to sound like you need an adventure style bike. For drop guards, take a look at T-Rex Racing out of Texas. Solid protection with replaceable contact points. Those guards might help you choose one of the bikes they make guards for, like the Versys. https://www.t-rex-racing.com/
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Did somebody say "VERSYS" ???
(https://i.ibb.co/k50QZ14/327.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k50QZ14)
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The EV models have tubeless spoke wheels. Some models require tubes. Many run Metzler 880 and get really good mileage.
Me and my Cal like the 880's. I have owned one and have ridden a bunch of Shortsters and never would consider choosing one over over a Guzzi.
Larry
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A 1200 XL set up like a Road King with zoom down the highway good all day and take you all around Fl. on day trips just fine. Farkles and HD stores all over if needed for a roadside breakdown.
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If I get a guzzi, the first mod I will make is adding crash bars and saddle bag guards--and I will put those little doughnuts on those--and I won't expect any of it to stay shiny and nice for long. I don't mind scratches, dents, etc. That's character.
Thank you, I have looked at the Voyagers but they are too heavy for me, with pegs/boards too far forward. I want to like them because of the deals but I dont' think I could sit in that position for long.
I have a crash bar for a Stone that you can have for the price of shipping. It's got a scrape on one side and might need to be bent back into shape a bit, but it's totally useable for someone not concerned with cosmetics.
ME880s are getting scarce because they've gone out of production. ME888s are the replacement model. They come in Cali sizes too.
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Well I hoped to look at 2 different californias this week and both fell through. One due to vin not matching title/registration. The other was a 2003 and I was worried all the recalls mentioned above had not been done. So I am back to looking.
Yellowheader, if i do wind up with a california and you still have the bar, I will be interested. And thank you for the info on the 880s. I was wondering about that very thing.
Bodine, that is exactly the plan if I go the sporty route. I want to put some used RK shocks on it, side cases (with guards if I can find some that will fit it), good seat for passenger--well very much like the white sportster pictured earlier in this thread (beautiful bike, to me). I do wonder about the belt when I do longer dirt roads, but they seem to easy to convert to chain if that becomes an issue.
Twowheeladdict, I have considered the versys 650, the wee strom, the cb 500x--and especially the nc700x (which I like in part because I believe it has screw and locknut valves that are Relatively easy to get to). I see these bikes more as standards labeled as adventure bikes. That said, I do wonder: if you take them off road or even on just a sandy and take a spill, doesn't the plastic break?
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I am late to this party, but IMO it has to be 100% EV all the way over any Sportster. I have owned a few Sportsters and liked them a lot but they don't compare to an EV out on the highway rolling at 70+ mph.
This is not mine but wish it was. It is a classy looking bike!
(https://i.postimg.cc/PrfbFdbM/guzz.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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I am late to this party, but IMO it has to be 100% EV all the way over any Sportster. I have owned a few Sportsters and liked them a lot but they don't compare to an EV out on the highway rolling at 70+ mph.
I gotta ask.
HAVE YOU OWNED A RUBBERMOUNT 1200?!?
Because the difference between a solidmount 1200 (through 03) and a rubbermount (04+) is significant, almost completely different bikes.
I'm struggling for a Guzzi analogy. It's not quite Cali 1100 vs Cali 1400 but it's closer than not.
Yeah it's the same basic frame and engine architecture, but everything about how they work together changed.
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Twowheeladdict, I have considered the versys 650, the wee strom, the cb 500x--and especially the nc700x (which I like in part because I believe it has screw and locknut valves that are Relatively easy to get to). I see these bikes more as standards labeled as adventure bikes. That said, I do wonder: if you take them off road or even on just a sandy and take a spill, doesn't the plastic break?
I had my 2011 Versys for 30,000 miles. SW Motech engine guards. I never dropped it, but I honed my skills on small Dual sport bikes. There was a YouTube video Out showing a Versys sliding on pavement and the SW Motech guards did their job.
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Interesting that Kevin mentioned the Versys , they are fun , but comparing the 650 Kawasaki to an 1100 Guzzi is almost strange . The Kwacker is a Rat Terrier , the old Guzzi is a big old Labrador Retriever .
Dusty
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Interesting that Kevin mentioned the Versys , they are fun , but comparing the 650 Kawasaki to an 1100 Guzzi is almost strange . The Kwacker is a Rat Terrier , the old Guzzi is a big old Labrador Retriever .
Dusty
Don't underestimate a Rat Terrier. They will surprise you with their tenacity, and voracity when they have prey in their sights.
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Don't underestimate a Rat Terrier. They will surprise you with their tenacity, and voracity when they have prey in their sights.
No doubt , we have a 22 lb Tri-Terrier-of-doom that can herd Pit Bull dogs and humans also . Still , he is a Terrier , a bit unpredictable and he continues trying to "taste" the mail carrier .
Dusty
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OP, Instead of listening to us, perhaps just ride the bikes and buy what you like? Either bike has been in production for years and have been improved over time. Even the Sportster is perhaps a ride-able bike since the "rubber mount" version came out. And an XR might be a fun toy for those guys that like a sporty but low revving bike. :laugh:
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After our 13 year old Daisy May crosses the bridge😩 if I ever recover and get another dog it’ll be a Jack Russell 👍
(https://i.ibb.co/k2LPqLx/5-A1-E5467-0-C4-C-4-E63-949-B-DD541143-E5-E8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k2LPqLx)
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I gotta ask.
HAVE YOU OWNED A RUBBERMOUNT 1200?!?
Because the difference between a solidmount 1200 (through 03) and a rubbermount (04+) is significant, almost completely different bikes.
I'm struggling for a Guzzi analogy. It's not quite Cali 1100 vs Cali 1400 but it's closer than not.
Yeah it's the same basic frame and engine architecture, but everything about how they work together changed.
Yes Kev, or I would have kept my mouth shut. :grin: Like I said, I like them, and a Sportster certainly could suffice, but compared to a EV 1100 - no comparison for higher speed travel.
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Another late to the party feller .
In 2004 when the Sportster went rubber mount the Harley world changed.
My first Harley was just that a 1200cc 2004 Roadster.
Fuel millage in the mid 50's
Plenty of power
Under 600 pounds
Tires - 150/80 or 140/90 -16" tires rear with a 19" front
Parts and accessories are every where.
No vibration delivered to the driver ! Ride as fast as you dare too , no problem . Tall gearing and rubber mount !
My second Harley was even better - it was a 2007 883 Sportster (Harley finally got one of their models 100% right) the motor is not only rubber mounted but it is very well balanced too. :azn:
I'd still have it but I discovered something better --- the Guzzi V-7II !
I'm 5'10" and 190#.
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Starting to sound like you need an adventure style bike. For drop guards, take a look at T-Rex Racing out of Texas. Solid protection with replaceable contact points. Those guards might help you choose one of the bikes they make guards for, like the Versys. https://www.t-rex-racing.com/
Interesting that Kevin mentioned the Versys , they are fun , but comparing the 650 Kawasaki to an 1100 Guzzi is almost strange . The Kwacker is a Rat Terrier , the old Guzzi is a big old Labrador Retriever .
Dusty
So, I was responding to @twowheeladdict post. And you know that I had to add a picture. :grin: :grin: :grin:
Yes, that 650 is a bit of a rat terrier, with copious amounts of Chihuahua in the mix. Very feisty.
He does have a big brother.
(https://i.ibb.co/6vV1xSb/010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6vV1xSb)
:bike-037: :bike-037:
So, the answer (in my mind) is that one needs at least TWO motorcycles. Just because. :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Yes Kev, or I would have kept my mouth shut. :grin: Like I said, I like them, and a Sportster certainly could suffice, but compared to a EV 1100 - no comparison for higher speed travel.
:thumb:
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
Maybe it's a personal thing.
I found the vibration in the Jackal to be tolerable but more noticeable than the vibration on our 2007 XL1200Lr.
Chassis wise the Jackal had a smidge more room and wheelbase which helped a little.
Ironically the XLr had the same shocks as the Jackal, and when I say same I mean I installed a pair of 13.25" Progressive 412's from Harper's on it that I'd originally had on the Jackal but later replaced with even better YSS's.
I remember dropping Jenn's Duc off for a major service (valves, belts, fork fluids etc.) at a decent dealer in PA and riding two up with Jenn the hour or so home. We were flying down the PA turnpike running in the 70-75 range and I was thinking we were damn close to magic carpet comfort.
There are differences between them, but I still think most are RCHs and personal preferences.
When hearing the black and white opinions I can't help but wondering if the poster is talking about a solidmount OR one of the too common neutered/lowered models. Hell even an 883 with lower gearing is going to feel different on the highway to a 1200.
:smiley:
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I hate this thread
Now I wanna go out and go motorcycle shopping
Thanks a lot
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I hate this thread
Now I wanna go out and go motorcycle shopping
Thanks a lot
When do people named Kevin EVER NOT WANT to go Motorcycle shopping?!?
Is there such a time and place?
:boozing:
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MMRanch, what sort of 883? I have been wondering about those (I have riddenly only the 1200). I see lots of the XL "c" or "custom" for sale. Why did you think it even better than the other sporty you had?
Lowryter, believe me I am trying to ride a california. It would be big step in the direction of finally making up my mind. I hoped to go see two this week. Both fell through. I do not see a lot of the Cali 1100s for sale around here--or for that matter anywhere I am looking.I keep trying. That said, a lot of my questions here are about more than the riding experience alone, and the answers are not something I would ever learn from a test ride. So the conversation here is important to me.
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MMRanch, what sort of 883? I have been wondering about those (I have riddenly only the 1200). I see lots of the XL "c" or "custom" for sale. Why did you think it even better than the other sporty you had?
Lowryter, believe me I am trying to ride a california. It would be big step in the direction of finally making up my mind. I hoped to go see two this week. Both fell through. I do not see a lot of the Cali 1100s for sale around here--or for that matter anywhere I am looking.I keep trying. That said, a lot of my questions here are about more than the riding experience alone, and the answers are not something I would ever learn from a test ride. So the conversation here is important to me.
Its always harder to shop for a Guzzi... At least in my area HD vs Guzzi is a easy 1000 to 1 ratio in for sale ads!!!
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Are there are MGNOC or other Guzzi groups in your area?!? (Where are you anyway)?
If you were in NJ I'm sure one of the members here would offer you a ride in one of their Cali 1100s to help you decide.
I've gone I that multiple times over the years.
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Kev m ,
There was something wrong with your Jackal , didn't it have parts breaking because of vibration ? That shouldn't happen .
Dusty
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Kev, you have touched on something I have been wondering about. Those neutered/lowered sportsters. ... I see them for sale everywhere. Can the low height be "fixed" simply with rear shocks from a bigger Harley? I was planning on changing the shocks anyway. But you've made me think maybe I should go read up on that at the XL forum to make sure it's not a bigger deal than i thought. I'm viewing the sportster as a platform that can be set up very much the way I want it, but I don't want to do a lot more work on the setting up than I have to. I do know that I need to get a post 2004 for the rubber mounts
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Kev m ,
There was something wrong with your Jackal , didn't it have parts breaking because of vibration ? That shouldn't happen .
Dusty
No, that was my solidmount Sporty.
The Jackal vibration wasn't bad, maybe similar to my Oilhead but slightly lower frequency. Enough to notice and more than the almost imperceptible waves in the rubbermount 1200 Sporty.
Kev, you have touched on something I have been wondering about. Those neutered/lowered sportsters. ... I see them for sale everywhere. Can the low height be "fixed" simply with rear shocks from a bigger Harley? I was planning on changing the shocks anyway. But you've made me think maybe I should go read up on that at the XL forum to make sure it's not a bigger deal than i thought. I'm viewing the sportster as a platform that can be set up very much the way I want it, but I don't want to do a lot more work on the setting up than I have to. I do know that I need to get a post 2004 for the rubber mounts
Shocks are easy on most/all models. Myself and some other guys on the XL added tall shocks to otherwise stock L models (nothing as low as the SuperLow though) and that alone worked well.
Until you get to the latest years with the cartridge forks you can also get longer damper rods and raise the fine end. Some have even abandoned the cartridge and gone that way on late-model stuff.
Not difficult.
I cheated and installed the whole fork and dual brake assembly from a 1200R Roadster.
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MMRanch, what sort of 883? I have been wondering about those (I have riddenly only the 1200). I see lots of the XL "c" or "custom" for sale. Why did you think it even better than the other sporty you had?
Lowryter, believe me I am trying to ride a california. It would be big step in the direction of finally making up my mind. I hoped to go see two this week. Both fell through. I do not see a lot of the Cali 1100s for sale around here--or for that matter anywhere I am looking.I keep trying. That said, a lot of my questions here are about more than the riding experience alone, and the answers are not something I would ever learn from a test ride. So the conversation here is important to me.
Test rides are a little "different" on a Cali! My opinion is that they don't leave a good first impression for the first time Guzziti. You've come this far so don't get cold feet if you ride an EV with the "nub", can't figure out why the motor sounds like it's about to explode (you didn't rev it enough) or wonder what all the noise is with 5th gear. All of those fade away after a few hours.
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When do people named Kevin EVER NOT WANT to go Motorcycle shopping?!?
Is there such a time and place?
:boozing:
LMAO, you were right Kev when you said I should go ahead and make the other Kev an offer on that V9 😂😂😂😂. You can’t make this stuff up, can’t stop laughing 😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂
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LMAO, you were right Kev when you said I should go ahead and make the other Kev an offer on that V9 😂😂😂😂. You can’t make this stuff up, can’t stop laughing 😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂
I'm keeping an eye on you two, and got my 20 pound Tom cat guarding that V9
(https://i.ibb.co/kXfw005/IMG-20200718-094606-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kXfw005)
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I hate this thread
Now I wanna go out and go motorcycle shopping
Thanks a lot
Well Kev, like you I am always motorcycle shopping. The difference comes in the buying! My last two test rides were the 2020 Royal Enfield Trials 500 and a 2008 Wide Glide.
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Well Kev, like you I am always motorcycle shopping. The difference comes in the buying! My last two test rides were the 2020 Royal Enfield Trials 500 and a 2008 Wide Glide.
I'm looking at an late model FXDL myself...... :thumb:
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I'm looking at an late model FXDL myself...... :thumb:
I would have bought that wide glide but the vibration in the foot controls didn't jive with the nerves in my legs. It sure was a beautiful bike.
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Kev, you have touched on something I have been wondering about. Those neutered/lowered sportsters. ... I see them for sale everywhere. Can the low height be "fixed" simply with rear shocks from a bigger Harley? I was planning on changing the shocks anyway. But you've made me think maybe I should go read up on that at the XL forum to make sure it's not a bigger deal than i thought. I'm viewing the sportster as a platform that can be set up very much the way I want it, but I don't want to do a lot more work on the setting up than I have to. I do know that I need to get a post 2004 for the rubber mounts
Kev M already answered, but Ill jump in. When I was shopping for my first bike in over 10 years I really wanted a Guzzi.. But they are tough to find around here, and I was keeping my eye out for other options. Sportsters were on that list. Almost every one I looked at was modded, hacked, or had all the textbook bling all over it. Most were lowered to the ground with shocks that had to only have a inch or two of travel.. Being I was looking for the "Sport" in Sportster, I started researching shocks. There are a ton of different options out there for them, in all different lengths.. So no issue with that at all! Im happy I ended up with my 02 stone metal though.. and it was about 2 miles from my house to boot!!!!
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Are you liniting yourself to 17 to 23 year old Guzzis? If so pick the Sportster. 4-10 year old Sporties can be had cheap. If you are over 5'7' and 160 lbs. Suspension and ride position will make you a tad un happy.
Buy a 1200 if possible. Loud pipes aren't faster. 1200R is a really good bike. Buy a windshield. Be sure to get a rear rack. Maintenance is a breeze.Get some real rear shocks.
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I want to give a HUGE thank you to Steve, a member here, who just let me ride his beautiful California 1100 this afternoon. He also gave me lots of great info and advice about Californias, Guzzis in general, and Guzzi people. I learned huge amounts today. Rode some pretty roads too. THANK YOU.
And how did I like it? I am still overwhelmed.. I dont' have a lot of experience with different bikes and I've never ridden anything close to the California. Just about everthing about it was different--seating postion, size, character--everything. (Plus there were other things particular to this bike like the heel shifter and connected brakes that were new to me too). It was a challenge taking it all in. I am still "processing." My first impression is the bike is too big for me--it was bigger than I expected it to be somehow. This very well may be because I'm so used to riding a little bike though.
Steve told me--and some of you have here too I think--that getting to know these bikes take time. In my experience this seems to be true.. We took a nice ride today, but I feel like I have only scratched the surface.
I am going to go try some Sportsters. It's been a few years since I've ridden one. I may try a versys or a versys competitor too, just for comparison. And as for what I'll do, I have no idea.
But I do know that you all are great, a huge help. Thank you.
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I had a really nice 360 mile ride through the Adirondacks (where I live) and the Green Mountains in Vermont yesterday on my Roadster. I had done the same kind of loop on my Norge (and other bikes I’ve owned). Out of 26 motorized 2 wheelers I’ve owned I’ve enjoyed every one. 2 I would not ever ride again, all the others I’d be happy to take for a spin... Ride all you can and buy what speaks to you.
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I’ve been hesitant to chime in here due to the fact that I’ve never owned a sportster and only ridden a couple, period.
However I can speak for the 1100 California bikes as I’ve had three of them now. The MG California 1100(1064cc) both hydro and solid lifter versions are fantastic mills and the bikes themselves are really capable tourers as well as canyon chasers, with a competent rider aboard. Not making light of the HD but one surly can’t go wrong with the MG either.
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I’ve been hesitant to chime in here due to the fact that I’ve never owned a sportster and only ridden a couple, period.
However I can speak for the 1100 California bikes as I’ve had three of them now. The MG California 1100(1064cc) both hydro and solid lifter versions are fantastic mills and the bikes themselves are really capable tourers as well as canyon chasers, with a competent rider aboard. Not making light of the HD but one surly can’t go wrong with the MG either.
Unless you're looking for a daily commuter and find you have to crab the frame for a rear main or transmission input shaft. They might but be acceptable to someone who needs it to get to work.
Though I'll add, even back em the Jackal was almost new it was leaving a small spot from the rear main seal I never bothered to fix it. But it could have gotten worse, contaminated the clutch and forced the issue...
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Bill, it was a pleasure to meet you and let you test ride my EV. To no surprise, your analysis is exactly the same as the last guy I let try it. Yes, the heel/toe shifting is foreign to most people, and the brakes are a little odd too. But they have become second nature to me. The perception that the bike is too big probably is a result of that big Swanee fairing and Hepko-Becker luggage. Strip those parts off and the bike appears to be much smaller. Hopefully you can find another model to try, a Stone or a Bassa. They'll have the shifting and braking you are used to. Or you might find a 750 Breva to your liking. Good luck with your search. There's a huge variety of bikes out there to choose from.
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The models with pegs as opposed to boards still have the heel-toe shifter BUT you don't have to use the heel as you can get a toe under it. As a matter of fact in my Jackal I just cut off the heel piece (on my Road Kings I've always unbolted and removed the heel piece).
So yeah those models feel "normal" in that sense.
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Oh, one more thing Bill. I now realize my mistake. I chose the wrong roads to ride. I should have led you on faster, straighter roads. I doubt you ever used 4th gear much. Probably mostly 3rd gear. Where the EV really shines is in 5th gear at an indicated 80mph.
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Oh, one more thing Bill. I now realize my mistake. I chose the wrong roads to ride. I should have led you on faster, straighter roads. I doubt you ever used 4th gear much. Probably mostly 3rd gear. Where the EV really shines is in 5th gear at an indicated 80mph.
I always enjoy 4th gear, 50-60 mph back roads!! Just feels like your flying
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Oh I think they were perfect roads. They let me take it slow and get a feel for things. And there really was a lot to absorb all at once. Towards the end of the ride I was beginning to get a feel for the toe/heel shifter. I can see growing to like that with time. The brake I was still struggling with a little--in part because I had worn clunky boots. I believe on a faster road the windscreen might have become more of an issue for me. This is partly because I have never ridden a bike with a large windscreen. And then, as I have a long torso (but short legs) my head was above the screen in the most turbulant zone. I was ducking behind the screen sometimes and it was really quiet and calm when I did that. Alll I could hear was the engine and exhaust at those moments. (Nice sounds!). I'm glad the screen was on it because I have always wondered what it was like, riding behind a screen like that. But just the fully faired or nearly so experience was a lot for me to take in all at once.
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Castorp ask : MMRanch, what sort of 883? I have been wondering about those (I have riddenly only the 1200). I see lots of the XL "c" or "custom" for sale. Why did you think it even better than the other sporty you had?
As short as I can make the story:
I've been ridding with a bunch of Suzuki Savage/S-40 riders for 10+ years now in the Tail of the Dragon area 3 or 4 times a year. Those little bikes are GREAT to play on in the twisties . In 06 I was ridding my 2004 1200 Sportster Roadster , instead of my S-40.
The Harley is so much heavier it doesn't corner as quick as the little Savages . To compensate I had to run 2nd + 3rd gear up and down the rpm range. Yea , I could out power them anytime ... but ... in the twisty' s all the extra power don't mean nothing.
Harley built the 883 with 3" pistons then later added the 3.5" pistons to make it a 1200. The crank shaft is not a tapered fit to the drive sprocket of the primary either. It seems perfect for the 3" pistons , but the 3.5" pistons and running it like a Jap Bike made the splines on the crank shaft - sprocket connection start slipping.
It didn't take long for the splines to "Disappear" .
So , I say : Harley got the 883 perfect , but Screwed-up by putting the 3.5" pistons in it (going from personal experience) .
I think the conversation at Harley might have gone like :
Hay that's a nice little bike --- But --- Why don't you put these MAN-SIZE pistons in it and make it a MAN'S BIKE ! :laugh: The primaries are inter-changeable between the 1200 and the 883 , its the same bike . Some folks use the 1200 jugs and the 883 primary and have a low geared , DRAG BIKE/STUNT BIKE.
Don't run your 1200 Sportster like a REAL BIKE and there won't be a problem , It ain't nothing but a bored out 883 ya know.! :thumb: