Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dirk_S on July 25, 2020, 01:35:40 PM
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My V7II has already gone through some of the process of becoming more capable of handling some off-road excursions. Up here in New Hampshire we have lots of public roads not maintained by the towns (Class VI highway roads). These roads are often old farm roads, logging roads, and single lane rural routes that municipalities intentionally neglect to avoid cost of repair and liability.
I’ve so far made the bike lighter with a high-mount exhaust, lithium battery, and aluminum mudguards; more protected with engine guards, handlebar guards, and pannier racks; and in the near future will be mounting spoked wheels converted for tubeless tires, with 80/20 dual-sport tires being the minimum off-road tread that I shoot for. From these mods alone, I’ve been able to ride some deep’ish rugs and puddles, and over some mid-size rocks. But let’s see what else can be done.
On a previous post of mine that got removed for complaints, someone mentioned about investing in brake disc guards, which I hadn’t thought about. I didn’t come from a dirt bike background, and was unaware of these protectors. Anybody know any brands/models that will fit the V7?
Also looking at getting off-road foot pegs, but the factory pegs for the Stornello don’t come with removable rubber inserts for paved roads. Opinions on these when used on highway? Too much vibration on pavement I wonder?
Notes on front/rear suspension are welcome. Again, I don’t have too much knowledge other than the fact that my front is bottoming out occasionally these days. Perhaps some heavier oil is in need? I might consider lifting the back to make the lower part of the oil sump lift.
I also plan to eventually add a sump guard, be it the beefy-looking and priced Agostini, or fabricating my own.
Any other thoughts/suggestions/recommendations certainly welcome.
Also, if you’re interested, here’s a recent trip on a couple of these roads. It’s one of the easier Class VI roads I’ve traveled so far, but it does get a little tight 3/4 of the way in. I’m new to editing and uploading videos, so please excuse the royalty-free cheesiness of the soundtrack:
https://youtu.be/1tYTbHDXiPs (https://youtu.be/1tYTbHDXiPs)
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Longer travel suspension may seem the logical , if expensive, way to go, but check the history of the V65 NTX. Swingarm movement has its limits. I'd start with the tyres - you may find that that's all that's needed.
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I'd start with the tyres - you may find that that's all that's needed.
Im finishing up my 3rd pair of Shinko 705 rear & Scorpion Trail II front; trying out a set of Pirelli MT60 next. Curious to feel the difference. If there are other dual sport tire suggestions, I’m all ears/eyes.
Most of these roads so far have been far from cute fire roads, getting a wee gnarly with ruts, water, stumps, and rocks jutting up. That’s why I’m leaning toward the disc guards and sump protector.
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If you are bottoming out you most likely need heavier springs rather than oil, off road you want the travel with more compliant damping there is plenty ont he interwebs to work out what springs you may need. The rear you are limited by the shaft drive the cardan joint is only designed to travel so far and as it's enclosed fitting a doubble cardan joint as they do on 4wd's when they go for stupid lifts is not possible/ it would be cheaper to go buy a more suitable bike.
While the V65 tt's/NTX's had some oreintation to off road they did have some fairly serious design flaws common with the small blocks in this application (mainly the swingarm mount been cast into the rear plate of the gearbox) you don't want to replicate one.
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You mentioned that you were going tubeless. I only tubeless dual-sport F/R pair I have found, with an 18" front tire, is Kenda K-761. The front tire's rotation arrow is labeled "drive". I suggest mounting the tire with the arrow "backwards". I have over 10,000 miles on the pair on my V7II Stone.
Another good choice is Shinko 705, the size for the front is 4.10-18, but it is tube type.
To be able to access all of the "good' dual sport tires have the front wheel re-spoked with a 19" rim.
Regarding the Agostini skid plate: To me it looks like the first good hard hit would bend the mounting studs and you would have a hard time removing it. Do you have to remove it to change the oil filter?
I have never notice any difference between footpegs with or without rubber inserts, as far as vibrations, etc, are concerned. I have over 32k miles on my V7 with the Stornello/Stevio off-road pegs. For some better off-road footpegs check out PivotPegz - Stelvio pegs fit the V7.
Dan
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You might gain some control of the rear by changing the rear shocks for a pair of aftermarket ones, the suspension travel is limited by the single universal joint.
A change of that means a complete redesign of the rear end.
By then you are probably better off buying another bike.
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You don’t need 12” of suspension travel or disc guards to cruise class 4 roads. I did most of the Puppy Dog Route with a 1200 Sport on street tires. I’m heading out in an hour to do part of in on my Ducati Scrambler. 30-40% of my riding has been on dirt roads in VT and N.H. this summer.
IMHO, the most important thing is to slow down and not punch a hole in the sump or oil filter. There’s no really solid way to mount a true skid plate under a V7. The day you start slamming into ledge or sliding the bike over logs you’re going to kill it. Get some sort of sump protection under it but understand that a Guzzi isn’t a KTM. It’s not a dirt bike and never will be but it’s absolutely capable of happily cruising tens of thousands of miles of gravel road as long as you ride within its’ capabilities.
Cut a pair of PVC spacers and preload the fork springs. I’d start with 1.5-1.75”, ride for a weekend and if it still bottoms cut a pair a little longer. MT60’s fit and can be run with or without tubes. That’s it. Sump guard, pvc spacers and a set of tires. You don’t need anything else.
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My V7II has already gone through some of the process of becoming more capable of handling some off-road excursions. Up here in New Hampshire we have lots of public roads not maintained by the towns (Class VI highway roads). These roads are often old farm roads, logging roads, and single lane rural routes that municipalities intentionally neglect to avoid cost of repair and liability.
I’ve so far made the bike lighter with a high-mount exhaust, lithium battery, and aluminum mudguards; more protected with engine guards, handlebar guards, and pannier racks; and in the near future will be mounting spoked wheels converted for tubeless tires, with 80/20 dual-sport tires being the minimum off-road tread that I shoot for. From these mods alone, I’ve been able to ride some deep’ish rugs and puddles, and over some mid-size rocks. But let’s see what else can be done.
On a previous post of mine that got removed for complaints, someone mentioned about investing in brake disc guards, which I hadn’t thought about. I didn’t come from a dirt bike background, and was unaware of these protectors. Anybody know any brands/models that will fit the V7?
Also looking at getting off-road foot pegs, but the factory pegs for the Stornello don’t come with removable rubber inserts for paved roads. Opinions on these when used on highway? Too much vibration on pavement I wonder?
Notes on front/rear suspension are welcome. Again, I don’t have too much knowledge other than the fact that my front is bottoming out occasionally these days. Perhaps some heavier oil is in need? I might consider lifting the back to make the lower part of the oil sump lift.
I also plan to eventually add a sump guard, be it the beefy-looking and priced Agostini, or fabricating my own.
Any other thoughts/suggestions/recommendations certainly welcome.
Also, if you’re interested, here’s a recent trip on a couple of these roads. It’s one of the easier Class VI roads I’ve traveled so far, but it does get a little tight 3/4 of the way in. I’m new to editing and uploading videos, so please excuse the royalty-free cheesiness of the soundtrack:
https://youtu.be/1tYTbHDXiPs (https://youtu.be/1tYTbHDXiPs)
I went with Ktech Fork Springs up front, and Hagon "Enduro/Trail" 420mm in the rear, ended up with about 1.5" static 'lift' at the rear and 1" up front, seated, just a little over 3/4" rise in ride height. I was bottoming and crashing the front forks and rear shocks before, never since. The Hagons dual springs are outstanding on gravel and minor imperfections. Under $300 total if I remember, but it was 2 years ago.
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You mentioned that you were going tubeless. I only tubeless dual-sport F/R pair I have found, with an 18" front tire, is Kenda K-761. The front tire's rotation arrow is labeled "drive". I suggest mounting the tire with the arrow "backwards". I have over 10,000 miles on the pair on my V7II Stone.
Another good choice is Shinko 705, the size for the front is 4.10-18, but it is tube type.
To be able to access all of the "good' dual sport tires have the front wheel re-spoked with a 19" rim.
Regarding the Agostini skid plate: To me it looks like the first good hard hit would bend the mounting studs and you would have a hard time removing it. Do you have to remove it to change the oil filter?
I have never notice any difference between footpegs with or without rubber inserts, as far as vibrations, etc, are concerned. I have over 32k miles on my V7 with the Stornello/Stevio off-road pegs. For some better off-road footpegs check out PivotPegz - Stelvio pegs fit the V7.
Dan
Agreed on the footpegs. I felt no vibrations with the stock pegs, though I did swap the stock Stornello pegs for Goldwing GL1800 pegs. They are wider and a bit longer.
I dont have the Agostini plate, but you have to remove it to remove the filter, and also drain the oil. I'm on an 'every other oil change for the filter schedule' but the juice ain't worth the squeeze for me.
I am considering going with the Shinko 705's if I can get over my prejudice against them. Back in the day Chen-Sin and Shinko's were super cheap and mostly garbage, but they seem to be getting better reviews these days.
Other decent options are the Bridgestone A 41's and Avon Trail Riders, but I am also considering the Pirelli MT60's. I wont be doing it till next year.
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You don’t need 12” of suspension travel or disc guards to cruise class 4 roads. I did most of the Puppy Dog Route with a 1200 Sport on street tires. I’m heading out in an hour to do part of in on my Ducati Scrambler. 30-40% of my riding has been on dirt roads in VT and N.H. this summer.
IMHO, the most important thing is to slow down and not punch a hole in the sump or oil filter. There’s no really solid way to mount a true skid plate under a V7. The day you start slamming into ledge or sliding the bike over logs you’re going to kill it. Get some sort of sump protection under it but understand that a Guzzi isn’t a KTM. It’s not a dirt bike and never will be but it’s absolutely capable of happily cruising tens of thousands of miles of gravel road as long as you ride within its’ capabilities.
Cut a pair of PVC spacers and preload the fork springs. I’d start with 1.5-1.75”, ride for a weekend and if it still bottoms cut a pair a little longer. MT60’s fit and can be run with or without tubes. That’s it. Sump guard, pvc spacers and a set of tires. You don’t need anything else.
This is your answer. You do not have a dual sport bike but you can ride down dirt roads...Just take it easy. Get some kind of skid plate before it is too late. Then maybe some wide pegs to make it more comfortable to stand up. Watch some videos on ADV riding technique. Practice. Learn about picking "lines" and how to read the terrain. Then practice. Remember you will not get real off road performance but you will still be able to ride many miles off road. Maybe the most important thing is to know your bikes and your limits and when to turn around. After learning the hard way more than once (most likely Many times) I still struggle with knowing when to call it quits. ;)
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I’m not looking to turn a Guzzi into a dirt bike. I understand that as obviously unrealistic. But I do believe it can be a little bit more of a “light adventure bike” that’s more capable than the NC750X I rode in Turkey and the F650GS I rode in Spain. I took both bikes onto roads that were old and unmaintained, and some that probably haven’t hosted a car in many years. With both bikes I found myself wishing I’d be traveling with the V7 instead.
Not a dirt bike and not KTM or KLR. I get that, but I do like thinking about what I can change just a bit more to make it even more fun on these less-travelled, less flat paths. The oft-rutted, single lane rural roads still call me, and I have noticed better capabilities with what I’ve already done.
Thanks for the tips.