Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stu on August 05, 2020, 05:10:21 AM
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Bit of background; I bought myself a 76 T3 back in April and have been fiddling with it since (Mamma Mia project thread). Hopefully it'll be back on the road this weekend at least to get a feel for what else needs doing. I currently have three bikes. As well as the T3, I have a 91 Kawasaki 750 Zephyr, which is cute but not really my cup of tea, and a BMW GS1200 (07) which is useful, but huge and not terribly inspiring. They are both for sale, which leaves me with the Guzzi. I don't need more than one bike, I quite like the idea of having something old and quirky and if it's off the road being fixed it's not the end of the world; I only ride for fun.
My question is: Is it realistic to have a 44 year old Guzzi as an only bike? What would I have to do to it to ensure its ongoing reliability? I've been through top end (it has cast liners), brakes, suspension, tyres, fuel system. I haven't looked at the electrical system yet, which I guess may be the main issue... everything seems to be working so far, but I'm not sure I trust it! Everything is original including handlebar switches and contact breaker ignition. I have replaced the ignition switch.
Any thoughts and experiences? Should I go for it and invest time and effort into this one bike, or do I hedge my bets? Is it still capable, with some work, of knocking up some miles (only maybe 4-5000 per year) or should I keep it as a toy and maybe keep the BM or similar? If I go for it what mods are essential/desirable to keep it going or make it useable in modern traffic? Your input and experiences would be appreciated!
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Electrically the ignition should be reliable, whatever you do DONT change the capacitor, the ones on the market today are just rubbish as are some of the points sets available.
You could boost the headlight by adding relays to take the load off the bar switches, Other than that just clean connections and add some Vaseline to ward off corrosion.
I assume its got the type of fuses that sit between two spring loaded clips, I suggest stretching an "O" ring around the clips to add tension after first polishing the ends by rubbing on your Jeans.
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After the Apocalypse, the only thing left moving will be cockroaches and old Guzzis. :smiley: Of course it can be an only bike. Go through the electrical system completely. Take every connection apart. Clean, spray with Caig DeOxit, use Vaseline *not* dielectric grease as necessary, and it will run forever.
I see Kiwi Roy posted at the same time. :grin: Great minds and all that..
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I used mine in that way from 92 to 06..had the occasional hick up but it behaved overall very very reliably after routine maintenance. I then striped it down after a full nut and bolt restoration that was mainly cosmetic and for tuning purposes.
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Thanks Guys
Electrically the ignition should be reliable, whatever you do DONT change the capacitor, the ones on the market today are just rubbish as are some of the points sets available.
One of the things I had on my list to do soon as I noticed the points were sparking a bit... :undecided: Anywhere reliable to buy new contacts and condensers from?
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Guzzis are one of the few 40+ year old bikes that can still be a realistic everyday bike
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Thanks Guys
One of the things I had on my list to do soon as I noticed the points were sparking a bit... :undecided: Anywhere reliable to buy new contacts and condensers from?
The condenser is not there to prevent sparking it acts as part of a tuned circuit along with the coil
I think you would have better luck with a condenser from some old abandoned car from the 60s rather than buying a new Chinese knockoff
I thought I would treat my old loop to a new one, big mistake, it ran fine for a day, then I barely made it home cutting out with any throttle.
(https://i.ibb.co/VYQQM8j/Apart.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gZPPtCj)
(https://i.ibb.co/Pj1rZjj/Arcing.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JtrcRtt)
The ends weren't even connected to the foil. I could see where it was arcing inside.
Perhaps go to an auto wrecker.
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In my 31 years of owning an old Guzzi, my experience tells me it's better to run the old bikes more often is better that not. My cx100 was my only street bike until I bought a Triumph in 2006, you'll be OK with the old Goose.
(https://i.ibb.co/zsXWbCB/3bikes.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zsXWbCB)
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Not really applicable to you but...
Situation in the States is different from here in the old world. But if you already have an old Tonti, especially something sought after life a LM, T3,T4, then it quite happy to be used a everyday bike. Its a different situation to buy one. Prices are so high that you really got to ask your self are they worth it for the money. You can but something much more modern (Guzzi Inc) for the same or a lot less money. When i see shattered ex Carabinieri T3/T4 for 6.5K and pampered Norge's lucky to get 2k, you gotta ask yourself.
The tonti's are just gettin old and rare I guess.
Regards
Kev
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Bought mine here in UK for £2.5k. Hadn't been taxed since 1990. Not much wrong, considering. :undecided:
Thanks for input... will have to see how she goes once I get her back together this weekend.
I suspect she might be coming apart for a rear crank seal in the not too distant future :sad:
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On top of what has been said for electrical (find NOS Magneti Marelli points and condensers if you can), I'd say also be sure your final drive has good seals (inner and outer) and proper oil level then you should be set.
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There's sort of a difference between "An Everyday Bike" and an "Only Bike".
Does it make sense to have ANY bike as an "Only Bike"? Up to 1976, I had One Bike and no car. From 1976 to 1999, I had One Bike and a car or truck.
Any bike can be down for some period of time if something goes wrong. If it's a shop job, you're dependent on the shop's schedule and you could be without the bike for weeks if they've got it and can't get a part or something. You have to decide whether you'd be happy with that or not.
Certainly a Tonti Guzzi could be a ride-it-every-day bike ... but what if it needs some maintenance that you just haven't got the time or parts to do? Might it be a good idea to have a backup bike to ride, or is a car good enough as a backup?
My problem is, when my main bike needs maintenance, and I ride my backup, I tend to ride it until IT needs maintenance, and maybe by that time I've bought another, and ... and .... well, you get the idea.
Be that as it may, no reason that a properly sorted T3 couldn't do exactly what a 2020 Triumph or Honda could do in terms of on-road time and miles ....
Lannis
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I’d keep the GS until you get this bike sorted. And I’d replace the entire wiring harness, contact Greg Bender @This OldTractor for all your wiring needs.
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Gilardoni cylinders make a long in storage T3 an everyday bike
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Gilardoni cylinders make a long in storage T3 an everyday bike
This one had cast sleeves put in years ago. They're not perfect, little bit of rust pitting in one pot, but they're not the old chrome ones either. I'll leave it this way until I've run it a bit and seen if the pitting causes any issues.
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Gilardoni cylinders make a long in storage T3 an everyday bike
I was going to say he'd mentioned it had iron bores.. but Tom is right. The weak link in the bike other than the chrome bores is that old wiring. It may (or may not) be ok. I had an SP where the copper inside the sheath was green. At that point, a call to Greg Bender is in order.
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There's sort of a difference between "An Everyday Bike" and an "Only Bike".
Does it make sense to have ANY bike as an "Only Bike"? Up to 1976, I had One Bike and no car. From 1976 to 1999, I had One Bike and a car or truck.
Any bike can be down for some period of time if something goes wrong. If it's a shop job, you're dependent on the shop's schedule and you could be without the bike for weeks if they've got it and can't get a part or something. You have to decide whether you'd be happy with that or not.
Certainly a Tonti Guzzi could be a ride-it-every-day bike ... but what if it needs some maintenance that you just haven't got the time or parts to do? Might it be a good idea to have a backup bike to ride, or is a car good enough as a backup?
My problem is, when my main bike needs maintenance, and I ride my backup, I tend to ride it until IT needs maintenance, and maybe by that time I've bought another, and ... and .... well, you get the idea.
Be that as it may, no reason that a properly sorted T3 couldn't do exactly what a 2020 Triumph or Honda could do in terms of on-road time and miles ....
Lannis
I get you... this is where I've been most of my life. I've got to the stage now where I only ride for pleasure when I want to... commuting and other necessities are all done in the car (an old BMW z4 3.0i convertible, so no great hardship). Working on the bike (don't think there's any such thing as a shop job these days) is almost as much fun as riding them. Agreed there could always be a spares problem, but the bike's not a life and death thing.
A friend of mine has a theory. The more bikes you have, the less chance any of them are working at any given time... (She may be on here, between her and her husband they have at least three Guzzis including a Mk1 Le Mans and a Monza). It's probably been the case for me. If I only have one, it gets all my time and attention, and money, and I make damn sure it's fixed!
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I was going to say he'd mentioned it had iron bores.. but Tom is right. The weak link in the bike other than the chrome bores is that old wiring. It may (or may not) be ok. I had an SP where the copper inside the sheath was green. At that point, a call to Greg Bender is in order.
I'll definitely give it a going over and check it through.
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Sorry, I did not catch the part where it had iron sleeves. What I found on my T3 over the years with the harness is the crimp on ends themselves work harden/get brittle and tend to split and not make good contact. Mind you I have not replaced the entire harnesssj just replaced about half a dozen female ends as they give problems. One of Greg's harnesses would not be a bad thing though. His stuff is top notch.
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I visited a good friend this last weekend who has a 75' 850-T he bought new. It has been the only bike he has ever owned. It still runs and sounds great. Always maintained and repaired when needed so it has been down a few times but not for long. He has no plans to sell it. He has talked about possibly doing the Gilardoni upgrade in the near future.
(https://i.ibb.co/2KRsPPX/20200802-144314.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2KRsPPX)
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Charging system: In addition to making sure the terminals are tight and clean, plus wiring is all in order, I'd recommend an electronic voltage regulator and a big battery. The updated v/r will enable to the system to charge earlier and better overall. A large battery such as the ETX30L has more power and reserve than most smaller, cheaper options. Or, one can upgrade to a permanent magnet alternator w/matching reg/rect. which has higher output.
Lighting: LED bulbs will reduce the load on the charging system, and if chosen wisely, will provide much better illumination as well.
Ignition system: Original points will stay in adjustment for quite a long while if the cam is lubed with Bosch Distributor Grease. I've put 17k miles on my Convert since I got it on the road and the points are still at the gap I set them at and timing is still spot on. I've had two Dyna III ignitions fail on other Guzzis, so will never fit another.
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My theory is that bikes like to be ridden on a regular basis. They will actually last longer and be less problematic if you use them.
If you like the bike, why hesitate to make it a daily rider so you can enjoy it more? Life is short.
I would also be patient with the old girl. Put her back into regular service, and be prepared to address any issues that crop up without getting frustrated or second guessing yourself. Fix any issues the right way. Pretty soon it will probably be fine.
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Carry a comprehensive toolkit. Ride :thumb:
People are too scared of the occasional breakdown. It's never likely to be something desperately dire. Carry a few spares. Fix it yourself.
Nick
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My T3 has been an extremely reliable bike, always starting, running well, never leaving me stranded.
I use the Dyna electronic ignition system, which some distrust but I have found reliable.
Obviously you know that you will have to service the bike from time to time.
Moto
P.S. The Greg Bender wiring harness, should you give up on the one you have, is here: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/for_sale_wiring_harness.html (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/for_sale_wiring_harness.html).
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After the Apocalypse, the only thing left moving will be cockroaches and old Guzzis. :smiley: Of course it can be an only bike. Go through the electrical system completely. Take every connection apart. Clean, spray with Caig DeOxit, use Vaseline *not* dielectric grease as necessary, and it will run forever.
I see Kiwi Roy posted at the same time. :grin: Great minds and all that..
Also old VW bugs, which share the same technology! (See the movie Sleeper.)
M.
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I got the 77 T3 about five years ago and the only time it let me down was the starter wouldn't start. A few roll starts got me home. Since then I've had an 87 LM I've put 20K on, an 85 LM I resurrected (parked since 1991) and an 84 LM III. I don't recall any issues with them once they were sorted. They all needed a clutch, but each for a different reason, none because the friction material was worn out.
I've ridden these bikes on trips and would trust them to a X country trip tomorrow. They're all I've been riding in the last five years.
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Im riding a 76 Convert with 60000 miles. This is my new to me 9 years ago.
Look at my signature below for the mileages on old Guzzis.
To quote a old Guzzi rider IRON MIKE " your not riding it hard enough".
Mike was a very good friend of mine who passed away way to soon but people on this board
have great memories of Mike.
Sort out your bike and enjoy many memorable miles.
TOMB
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My "almost new" G5 is on it's second time around the odometer. :smiley: I'd get on it tomorrow, and head out to California fully expecting to get there..
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T3 being a keeper and every day rider. :thumb: The problem on mine was that some spokes on the front wheel snapped. That's fixed and I'd ride it again as the only bike in the fleet to be on the road.
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I acquired my 850T in 1983 and it was my only bike until the flood in 2013. A daily rider most of the year throughout that time, and a dependable one. It was down for the winters because I lived in ski country.
Electrical issues: Bit by bit I replaced everything electric. The T has some problems you won't see in a T3 (weak alternator and switchgear, wrong master cylinder for instance) and wound up with my own wiring harness, somewhat simplified to shorten critical circuits. When I upgraded the alternator I adopted a solid-state rectifier/regulator. The factory switchgear is gone, and the headlamp runs from a relay, which should be standard practice. I did switch to Gilardonis. After the flood rather than fiddle with lousy new-manufacture ignition plate and condensers I put in a Dyna III and am happy with it. The original clutch began slipping around 50,000 miles but I don't know how much of that is due to the drowning.
After the rebuild it's better than new and I could get by with it as my only bike and daily ride. Of course I no longer commute, and the rest of the collection is fun so those bikes aren't going anywhere.
Bottom line is that with regular maintenance and fixing the electrics as needed, a T3 can be immortal. If you live in a damp climate, daily riding is part of regular maintenance.
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Details on the 07 GS. Mileage, location, price?
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https://m.facebook.com/groups/814215495331283/permalink/3098214973597979/?sale_post_id=3098214973597979#!/marketplace/item/2697106443908258/?refid=18&__tn__=H-R (https://m.facebook.com/groups/814215495331283/permalink/3098214973597979/?sale_post_id=3098214973597979#!/marketplace/item/2697106443908258/?refid=18&__tn__=H-R)
20k miles, Wiltshire UK, asking £4900. Sorry, this wasn't meant to be an ad!
Thanks all for your fantastic insights... Will give it a lot of thought over the weekend, hopefully while riding her!
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. . . daily riding is part of regular maintenance.
That is brilliant. Well put. I plan to steal that if you don’t mind.
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My theory is that bikes like to be ridden on a regular basis. They will actually last longer and be less problematic if you use them.
If you like the bike, why hesitate to make it a daily rider so you can enjoy it more? Life is short.
I would also be patient with the old girl. Put her back into regular service, and be prepared to address any issues that crop up without getting frustrated or second guessing yourself. Fix any issues the right way. Pretty soon it will probably be fine.
I guess that can be said for any Guzzi really.. Even my under 10K mile 02 stone took about a year to get sorted..and fix a few Issues.. Plan for a year of fiddly bits, and then ride!
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My "almost new" G5 is on it's second time around the odometer. :smiley: I'd get on it tomorrow, and head out to California fully expecting to get there..
My G5 is heading for the 3rd time round and over that time sure its had a few issues but hey... I don't pamper it. Stuff generally gets done when it needs it. Or maybe a few years down the line. Replaced RH carb this week whose lid had been hanging on by one screw due to stripped thread since I dont know when.
Lives outside without a cover 365 days a year in sunny North London.
Cheers
Min
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My G5 is heading for the 4th time round and over that time sure its had a few issues but hey... I don't pamper it. Stuff generally gets done when it needs it. Or maybe a few years down the line. Replaced RH carb this week whose lid had been hanging on by one screw due to stripped thread since I dont know when.
Lives outside without a cover 365 days a year in sunny North London.
Cheers
Min
Min, any chance you could post some photos of your bike?
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(https://i.postimg.cc/pddRynsr/20200428-192753.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kzPcW5Q)
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Thanks, that's inspiring! Love a well, used bike like that.
Mine, coming on...
(https://i.ibb.co/QYk0Pbd/IMG-2525.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QYk0Pbd)
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i have been running old guzzi's as daily bike for 25 years, apart from the lario , i had no big surprises.
my current daily ride is the newest guzzi i own , (a 750NTX) but still 30 years old.
i would rather take a old guzzi on a long trip than some modern bike i cant repair on the road.
having said that , expect small things to fail, the generator and starter will eventually fail.
so will the coils.
the UJ will eventually need rebuilding. the gearbox return spring will fail.
no problem if you can handle that, but it is not new honda/BMW 1200GS reliable.
personally i would do some upgrades like electronic ignition , a modern starter, and new coils
these are cheap upgrades, and not worth being stranded later on.
if properly maintained a old guzzi is as reliable as anything out there
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but it is not new honda/BMW 1200GS reliable.
I've been told BMWs don't enter (or was that , finish?) the iron butt anymore because they can't be trusted.
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I've been told BMWs don't enter (or was that , finish?) the iron butt anymore because they can't be trusted.
Well, whoever told you that, get them to simply have a look at the Iron Butt website for a look at the finishers in recent Iron Butt rallies, and you'll find that THEY can't be trusted ....
Lannis
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My question is: Is it realistic to have a 44 year old Guzzi as an only bike?
Yes, as long as you know how to and are willing to work on it yourself. The time and money you invest now will continue to pay you back for years to come. In 1999 I bought the Convert as a rig and went through it from stem to stern: updated suspension, brakes, motor and even replaced the transmission, final drive, U joint etc. Kids are grown so the sidecar is gone but glad I never sold that bike. Just got done replacing foot boards with pegs and it feels like a new bike again. Could be very happy having it as my only bike...
John Wendt in Wisconsin
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My question is: Is it realistic to have a 44 year old Guzzi as an only bike?
Yes, as long as you know how to and are willing to work on it yourself. The time and money you invest now will continue to pay you back for years to come. In 1999 I bought the Convert as a rig and went through it from stem to stern: updated suspension, brakes, motor and even replaced the transmission, final drive, U joint etc. Kids are grown so the sidecar is gone but glad I never sold that bike. Just got done replacing foot boards with pegs and it feels like a new bike again. Could be very happy having it as my only bike...
John Wendt in Wisconsin
I think thats a good point. If you need someone to work on it, you cant really expect every modern guzzi dealer to know the ins and outs of a 40+ year old motorcycle. One of the pet peeves of mine back when I worked for a VW dealer was someone that would show up, after picking up a old aircooled bug, and be pisssed off because the guys didnt have the tools, parts, and skill to work on it.. I love old cars and bikes.. but there is a certain amount of self responsibility that comes with it.
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Well, whoever told you that, get them to simply have a look at the Iron Butt website for a look at the finishers in recent Iron Butt rallies, and you'll find that THEY can't be trusted ....
Lannis
Thank you for the correction, Lannis. I'll file that tidbit in the circular file. I do recall a time many years ago when that was true with final drives failing and forget what all else. But I don't keep up on the iron butt myself.
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Thank you for the correction, Lannis. I'll file that tidbit in the circular file. I do recall a time many years ago when that was true with final drives failing and forget what all else. But I don't keep up on the iron butt myself.
I don't know whether the "final drive failure" thing was a real issue or not. People with BMWs had to catch a little bit of a hard time when photos of flaming, exploded BMW rear drives started showing up, especially since (over the years) there are many BMW owners with their noses a bit in the air over their white-glove Teutonic quality and robustness compared to the plebian motorcycles of the common man. For all I know, the three or four pictures that circulated were all there were out of 100,000 motorcycles, which wouldn't be too bad at all ....
Or it could be that you can't trust them around the block. Never owned one since my new 1981 R65, which was a REALLY nice motorcycle ...
Lannis
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These have only one real design flaw - the charging system is not up to snuff, especially if you run the headlite around town. Additionally the rotors in older bikes are prone to failure.
Euro Moto Electrics has a kit for it. Not cheap, but it really is an improvement.
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Lannis - Yeah, who really knows for sure? I don't think you'll ever get the stats from BMW. Perhaps a BMW tech could answer that one. I heard that when they came out with the no-service-needed final drive there was a shop that had no (or not very many) fail because they changed the lube at the first service, which wasn't called for. When did they come out with that final drive? Fifteen years ago? My only excursion into the newer bikes was a one year old R1100S back in 2001. That was enough for me - nice bike, but it just didn't jerk my chain.
Funny you should mention the R65. I've got an 83 LS with an 850 kit and a bunch of engine work. Love that one!
Furbo - I've been riding old airheads and now old Guzzis for 25 years as my main transport. They all use the Bosch charging system. I've done multiple trips across the country without issues. I will say that I've gotten used to riding without heated gear because way too often the connections go bad or break - in the plugs or inside the gear - leaving me without heat. I've grown tired of hassling with it, so haven't placed that strain on the system. Running the largest battery that fits is one way of reducing strain on the charging system. Frankly, from what I've heard, the higher wattage systems don't really provide much more electricity than the stock system. And for a fun machine the Bosch electrics will be more than adequate.