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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on August 27, 2020, 06:20:03 PM
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For those of you who ride both bicycle and motorcycle, on which do you feel more vulnerable to an accident?
I’ve ridden cross country on both, and gone on vacations on both and ridden to work on both. With the large amount of traffic which seems to get more and more each year, even with the flashing light on the front and rear of my bicycle, I feel more vulnerable on a bicycle to the cars approaching from behind me. My life is in their hands and I pray that they are not driving drunk, texting, or high on some drugs.
Yes motorcycles are dangerous but I am covered in leather and have a substantial jacket, boots, helmet and gloves on. I feel that riding mostly WITh traffic and scanning for danger ahead, I am able to avoid most dangers by positioning my motorcycle in the best possible way to increase reaction time and to be seen by other drivers ahead. I would never think of riding my motorcycle in just a T-shirt, shorts and fingerless gloves but that’s how most of us ride bicycles. I realize a lot of bicyclist don’t ride motorcycles and a lot of motorcyclists don’t ride bicycles, but for those of you who do, on which do you feel more vulnerable to an accident?
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I ride both regularly, but tend to stick to less traveled roads on the bicycle to avoid having traffic around, and these days just cycle in the neighborhood, often times on paved trails rather than in the street.
Have never had an accident on either, but definitely I'm much more cautious on the bicycle...but wear the same appropriate gear, helmet, gloves, glasses and stop at stop signs unlike 99% of the cyclists I see who blow right thru intersections.
I don't ride in city traffic and wouldn't here in Houston where there are few bike lanes. Back when I lived in Palo Alto, the town was well plotted out for bike lanes, tons of cyclists, and car drives understood how to treat cyclists, so one felt eminently secure. Living in Miami for a couple of years, I never ventured out on a bike in the city, you'd get killed in a heartbeat, some of the worst drivers in the nation, constantly running red lights.
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I ride my bike a lot to stay in shape as I need, as a ref, to run with soccer players 40 years YOUNGER than me. I feel WAY more exposed on my bicycle.
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I ride both, and sometimes on the same roads. I feel way more venerable on a motorcycle in my neck of the woods as I am way more afraid of deer than cars. Then again some drivers I see lately might not be as bright as the deer.
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Many more close calls on bicycle. As motorcyclists we often complain that cage drivers don't see us. And we act appropriately by assuming they don't. I find the opposite on my bicycle. Cage driver's see a bicycle and instantly compute the closing rate for the bicycle at a childish 5mph. Meanwhile, I'm cranking along near 20mph. So, they just "J" turn or pull out right in front of me. Looking right at me. They see me but can't seem to compute the relative speeds.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Bicycle 1000%
you are invisible to cars on both, but at least on the moto you are traveling at comparable speed... and wearing much better gear
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We have 32 miles of rails to trails bike path really close by so traffic is no problem. Much safer, but not near the woo-hoo factor of a Cal-Vin either :thumb:
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I will say that your situational awareness, perception, and field of vision etc is soooo much better on a bicycle, that does engender a good amount of confidence or perceived safety. But youre just so much more exposed...
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Bicycle 1000%
you are invisible to cars on both, but at least on the moto you are traveling at comparable speed... and wearing much better gear
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Definitely the bicycle, in fact so much so I usually ride the rail trails or park roads.
On a motorcycle you are moving at traffic speed and can also quickly accelerate. A bicycle not so much
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I know this makes no sense. I feel safer riding a motorcycle than any form of self guided transportation. Safer than in a car or truck.
I have a feeling of control. Like the bike is part of my body. I can change my opinion if I'm in bad weather like rain or snow but otherwise I feel safer on the motorcycle.
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Bicycle for sure
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My dad worked at the University here many years. At one point he became friends with a student from Africa who was about the same age he was. Dad made arrangements for him to get a loaner bicycle for local transportation . After a period of time he noticed that the bike was not being ridden and asked if something was needing repairs. Short version of the story is "No you people scare the sxxt out of me I'll walk from now on"
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I know this makes no sense. I feel safer riding a motorcycle than any form of self guided transportation. Safer than in a car or truck.
I have a feeling of control. Like the bike is part of my body. I can change my opinion if I'm in bad weather like rain or snow but otherwise I feel safer on the motorcycle.
Makes perfect sense to me LowRyter.
I would (and do) argue that a Motorbike is far safer than any other vehicle.
Perfect visibility.
No Blind Spots (six or more roof/door/window pillars in a car, headrests, passengers, window stickers, s**t hanging from rear-view mirrors etc).
No isolation from your surroundings.
Better awareness of various situations.
No distractions (eating/drinking, Phones, Radio/CD, Multimedia BS, Smoking/Vaping, kids/passengers talking/yelling/fighting, etc etc).
Better maneuverability/road-holding/handling.
Better acceleration/Braking.
Much higher threshold of aquaplaning in the wet.
Easier to avoid road damage (potholes etc).
When you're cocooned in a steel box, and surrounded by Airbags, Steel impact Bars/Cages, crumple zones etc, you're never going to be as alert as you are without them.
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Makes perfect sense to me LowRyter.
I would (and do) argue that a Motorbike is far safer than any other vehicle.
Perfect visibility.
No Blind Spots (six or more roof/door/window pillars in a car, headrests, passengers, window stickers, s**t hanging from rear-view mirrors etc).
No isolation from your surroundings.
Better awareness of various situations.
No distractions (eating/drinking, Phones, Radio/CD, Multimedia BS, Smoking/Vaping, kids/passengers talking/yelling/fighting, etc etc).
Better maneuverability/road-holding/handling.
Better acceleration/Braking.
Much higher threshold of aquaplaning in the wet.
Easier to avoid road damage (potholes etc).
When you're cocooned in a steel box, and surrounded by Airbags, Steel impact Bars/Cages, crumple zones etc, you're never going to be as alert as you are without them.
Glad we're on the same wavelength John. I know we turned this thread upside down and backwards.
Still, I feel safer when I am in control and I am most in control on a bike in a safe venue. At least, that's how I feel.
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Bicycle 1000%
you are invisible to cars on both, but at least on the moto you are traveling at comparable speed... and wearing much better gear
I agree 1000% :grin:
I have actually thought about this a lot as I spend about an equal amount of time on both. Motorcycles are part of the traffic flow, bicycles are not. I feel much more in control and "part of the game" on a Moto. Fortunately, I have never been involved in a multi vehicle accident on either, but when I have gone down the injuries have always been worse on the bicycle due to lack of protective gear (other than helmet).
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Much more vulnerable on a bicycle.
As mentioned by others, for me it all comes down to control of the situation, on a motorcycle, as much as possible, I try to keep an empty buffer space around me, I usually can do that by turning, braking or speeding up.
On a bicycle it's a matter of numbers; the reality is, hundreds or thousands of tons of steel will be passing by me closely and a certain percentage of those vehicles will be driven by idiots.
I don't like that feeling of them having control of my safety and wellbeing rather than me.
fwiw
Kelly
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Without question, riding a bicycle on the street for sure! :rolleyes: :huh: :rolleyes: :shocked:
(...except trail riding on a mountain bike out in the boonies!) :laugh: :grin: :wink: Just don't fall off at speed! :shocked: :rolleyes:
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I am way more vulnerable on one of my motorcycles than I am on MY bicycle.
The reason is simple, I choose to ride a Mountainbike.
Cars and bicycles sharing the road and respecting each other? What a joke.
In my observation, neither party gives two thurds about the others safety.
I belong to SORBA (Southern Off-Road Bicyle Association). They maintain dedicated trail loops through the woods. Some more challenging than others.
I get all the excercise I can handle, and a good dose of nature to boot!
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I stopped riding bicycles on the street when I left Daytona Beach in 1985.
I stopped riding my mountain bikes in 2010, but I definitely felt more vulnerable on the trails on my mountain bike than I did on my dual sport motorcycles.
I see road bikes out on the mountain roads in east Tennessee, western North Carolina, and north Georgia and have determined that they people are crazy! Not only are they vulnerable, but on those narrow mountain roads with blind turns, they are creating hazards for drivers and motorcyclists. Of course it is the impatient drivers / riders who are at fault for passing the bicycles in blind turns, but if they weren't out on the road the hazard wouldn't be there.
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Some great thoughts here, I really enjoy reading them! For me, I'd have to say I feel way more vulnerable on my road bike than on my motorcycle, in general. As I have thought about why, and read the responses here, I think I can pin it down to 2 major factors, for me;
1) Although I often feel invisible while riding a motorcycle, and ALWAYS ride like it, a bicycle is much worse, in this regard. Not only am I barely noticed, when I AM noticed there are still many who seem clueless as to how fast I'm traveling, or can stop, as was mentioned here. And I can much more easily/safely ride in a manner on my motorcycle that makes me less invisible, with lane position and quickness that isn't possible on a bicycle.
2) I generally minimize #1 through route choice, but I never do anything about this one... Safety Gear! I wear a nice helmet, but other than that, at much faster than running speed on pavement, I might as well kiss my skin, and maybe some teeth, goodbye if I take a header. Been there, done that. Not the same on the MG. I certainly haven't always been an ATGATT guy, but with my recent return to riding I have purchased, and usually wear, nice jackets, pants, boots, gloves and helmet. If I get smashed by a car, I'm a bug either way, but when I contemplate taking a nasty tumble, that leather jacket sure feels cozy!
My 1¢
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My recumbent trike club rides at night. Cooler in AZ then and with all our lights, harder to miss us.
(https://i.ibb.co/r4gNW4p/IMG-5907.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r4gNW4p)
(https://i.ibb.co/pPkJ9QS/IMG-5910.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pPkJ9QS)
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Anytime a vehicle and yes a bicycle is by legal terms a vehicle just not a motor vehicle, is traveling extremely slower than the other traffic on the road, it is much more likely to be involved in a serious or fatal accident, if an accident occurs.
I quit riding in my area due to riding my Raleigh aluminum became much to dangerous To continue to take the risk
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I stopped riding bicycles on the street when I left Daytona Beach in 1985.
I stopped riding my mountain bikes in 2010, but I definitely felt more vulnerable on the trails on my mountain bike than I did on my dual sport motorcycles.
I see road bikes out on the mountain roads in east Tennessee, western North Carolina, and north Georgia and have determined that they people are crazy! Not only are they vulnerable, but on those narrow mountain roads with blind turns, they are creating hazards for drivers and motorcyclists. Of course it is the impatient drivers / riders who are at fault for passing the bicycles in blind turns, but if they weren't out on the road the hazard wouldn't be there.
One of my biggest fears driving a tanker in the mountains is that I’ll come around a right turn and a bicyclist will be on the shoulder. My tractor is already in the oncoming lane and my trailer tandems are usually on or over the white line. Left hand curves my fear is a motorcyclist. Either way when I don’t relax till I’m out of the mountains.
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In aggreement with PJPR01:
I ride both regularly, but tend to stick to less traveled roads on the bicycle to avoid having traffic around, and these days just cycle in the neighborhood, often times on paved trails rather than in the street.
when on the road bicycle, I frequent the Panhandle trail in this area. It gets me safely to some less traveled gravel and rural WV and PA roads. It also connects me with downtown Pittsburgh. PA seems to be very bike friendly also.. There are lots of wide bike lanes throughout the city. Quite the opposite of northern WV. You're on your own!!
*I can connect the Panhandle Trail with the Montour Trail and then onto the Allegheny Passage...that extends to the area around Washington DC I believe.
I feel safer on the moto than on the bicycle, if only because we're always decked out on the motorcycle, wearing full leathers, full face helmets, boots and gloves. On the bicycle, I'm basically only wearing a helmet and padded gloves for safety equipment. I've had one buddy get "smacked" by a large pick-up's side view mirrors.
*We've also lost a good local rider recently to a psycho all drugged out on Heroin driving a truck on the wrong side of the road.. I didn't know him personally, but he had quite a few KOM's in the area.
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I live in Denver and spend equal time on my Guzzi and my road bikes. We have a few hundred miles of off-street bike paths here, paved paths, and they WERE wonderful until bikes caught on with the unwashed public and they made the trails scary indeed. We have cyclists texting, chatting on their phones, riding no-hands through bike-path traffic, racing cyclists training at speed through bike-path traffic, electric bikes and stand-up scooters, you name it. Most of us adult riders only ride during the week after morning rush hour and before afternoon rush hour - never on the weekends. Just too sketchy. The pandemic has brought crazy driving to the highways into and out of Denver so motorcycling is scarier than it has been in memory, but it is not as scary as trying to survive on a bicycle on the Cherry Creek Bicycle Trail.
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The advantage goes to a motorcycle. Quicker in traffic and stops better.
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Roads around me have little to no shoulders and poor road surfaces. Combine that with all the other reasons cited by others and I'm feeling pretty uncomfortable riding a bicycle on the road. Much prefer trails to pavement when I'm pedaling.
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I ride my bicycle three times a week around a seven mile loop as fast as I can just to get a little cardio. I ride at 4:15 in the morning with a bright headlight, two flashing taillights and dressed in a yellow shirt with a helmet. I might cross paths with two or three cars but in the dark with my lights and with that few cars I feel safe but not as safe as on my motorcycle. I live in a shoreline community with lots of outsiders an quite honestly I wouldn't ride during the day here. As the OP says, you have no control of whats coming up behind you where as on a motorcycle you can defend yourself with good riding habits.
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Definitely feel more vulnerable on the bicycle because there are more vehicle interactions for the same distance (due to cars passing). Interestingly the car bike crashes tend to be the same for bikes and motorbikes - cars turning left and pulling out in front. Bicycle also gets the "J" turn. Patrick is right - there are a lot of drivers that think bicycles are slow or stopped.
On the other hand single vehicle crashes are going to be worse on the motorcycle. I'd been riding bicycles for 20 years and then started on a motorcycle again and I had to keep reminding myself that I was travelling 50-60 mph! Not time to smell the roses!
Crashed on both - lots more road rash on the bicycle. Sticky and visible. The motorbike was more like being stuck in a leather bag and beat with a bat - and that was a slow crash. :tongue: So more vulnerable on a bicycle in a 2 vehicle crash, but more vulnerable in a single vehicle motorcycle crash.
Where you live makes a huge difference to cyclists. Everyone here either rides a bicycle regularly or knows someone that does and the drivers know what to do.
I like mtn biking. :grin:
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With the increased amount of traffic on the road and bicycle riders feeling in danger, is one reason why rail to trail bicycle trails have become so popular in Pennsylvania and other states and countries. People want to just ride their bicycles, Enjoy the surroundings, and not have to deal with all the traffic.