Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: usedtobefast on September 13, 2020, 12:04:59 PM
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So I've found a nice 1988 BMW R100GS Paris Dakar. This is the Red/White tank model. I've always thought this was a great looking motorcycle, but never ridden one.
I would keep my Quota, the BMW would just be an additional for a while.
Other than short ish rides, I haven't spent much time on BMWs of this era.
Looking at specs, it seems like the BMW would be lighter than the Quota, but in all other ways it seems the Quota is substantially better.
Anyone spent time on both? Any compare/contrast? Thanks.
Pic:
(https://i.ibb.co/v46wx0S/r100gs.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v46wx0S)
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Ooooo, that's nice. How bout you ride them both back to back and give us your impressions? :popcorn:
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Nice! Just get it.
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Forget the spec sheet. There’s a reason the GS models are some of the best selling BMW’s, ever. And why the Quota wasn’t a good seller for Moto Guzzi, ever.
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I'd be curious how they compare, so get it!
There are two versions of the 100GS - pre 1991 and 91-5. I like the dashboard of the early PD better with the small tach and clock on the right side. The newer ones just have a large tach on the right, speedo on the left.
The earlier GS also has a simpler electrical system and the early style handlebar switches. The new switches are nice, but more complex and require some expensive electronics.
Other than that they're pretty much the same.
They're great for road trips - much better than the RT in my opinion. I rode my 93PD across the country five or six years ago. Three thousand miles in about 3 and a half days. Sounds like a big deal, but it wasn't really. Pretty relaxed ride in fact. Took it easy coming back and it turned out to be about the same - maybe 4 days.
Kind of big and heavy for off road though some guys have done it. I think that kind of treatment isn't good for such a heavy machine and don't like to abuse my stuff.
Usually they benefit greatly from a rear shock upgrade.
With the bike on the centerstand and in neutral, rotate the rear wheel in reverse. Any notchiness, roughness, it's either the UJoint or transmission output bearing. $400-1200. That's the biggie to watch for.
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Get a Quota and put the $4000 in your pocket.I'm sorry early GS are over priced
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Or buy a Hexhead R1200GS for short money and have an better bike than ether the early GS or the Quota.
I've had a Quota.
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Get a Quota and put the $4000 in your pocket.I'm sorry early GS are over priced
Already got a Quota! :grin: It does seems like the BMW's are about double the Quota prices.
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Get a Quota and put the $4000 in your pocket.I'm sorry early GS are over priced
Prices seem to vary a lot, and don’t necessarily match condition.
I’ve ridden an R100GS in the Alps etc since 2006, had a couple of others before that, and there’s a reason a why they are in demand. In my experience there is simply no bike that can do as many things as well, while also being ridiculously simple in design, high in quality, easy for parts and unbelievably straightforward for repairs & maintenance. They are not perfect and in particular benefit from an improved front brake setup, but they are better at what they do than anything else. Having had both versions, I prefer the ‘88-‘90.
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I think the red/white scheme like that one is the best looking except for maybe the Special which was black with lots of chrome. That's a nice one pictured there.
It appears to have an Ohlins, which is a good upgrade. I have heard, however, that they wear out quickly and are expensive to rebuild.
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Might want to talk to the seller. The bike in the pick isn't an '88 unless somebody converted it. The frame mounted fairing came out on the 1990 models. I also don't think there was a PD version of the R100GS in '88 or '89 - at least not in the States.
I've never ridden a Quota, so for what its worth: I bought my R100GS to ride to Alaska. Then I was going to sell it. In 1992. The Harleys are gone. The Hondas are gone. The Suzuki is gone. The Yamaha is gone. I still have the old BMW. Rode it today. Lovely motorbike.
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Prices seem to vary a lot, and don’t necessarily match condition.
I’ve ridden an R100GS in the Alps etc since 2006, had a couple of others before that, and there’s a reason a why they are in demand. In my experience there is simply no bike that can do as many things as well, while also being ridiculously simple in design, high in quality, easy for parts and unbelievably straightforward for repairs & maintenance. They are not perfect and in particular benefit from an improved front brake setup, but they are better at what they do than anything else. Having had both versions, I prefer the ‘88-‘90.
In March of 1991, I took delivery of my R100GS from Andy Pelc BMW, Canton, Michigan. I'd started on BMWs 6 years prior, when I purchased my 1985 K100RS. Loved that bike even with its niggles ...... enough so that I subsequently purchased a 1988 K75S, followed by a 1989 K100RS/ABS.
Andy's shop was a Saturday morning meeting place, and one Sat, I was greeted by the sight of a black and yellow R100GS. The owner of my previous shop, Heritage BMW in Greensburg PA, loved the GS bikes ...... to the point where the BMW rep asked him to quit putting so many personal miles on the demos! He'd sold me on them.
So, without ever riding a GS, I signed the paperwork and left the shop for a 60-70 miles ride. And I thought "...... what the hell have I done? ......" I pulled back into Andy's shop, he walked up to me, still on the GS, and said, "You don't like it, do you?" My answer was "No!"
Andy then said that the GS was so different from the K bikes I'd been riding, it might take a thousand miles or more to get in the spirit of the airhead. And he was right! Witness the pic below, taken early in 2020, almost 29 years after I took delivery of my GS on that brisk March Saturday in 1991. Lots of bikes have come and gone since then. But this old gal has watched them come and go, knowing full well she's here for the duration.
Bob
(https://i.ibb.co/LRsbzm5/IMG-3282.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LRsbzm5)
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Might want to talk to the seller. The bike in the pick isn't an '88 unless somebody converted it. The frame mounted fairing came out on the 1990 models. I also don't think there was a PD version of the R100GS in '88 or '89 - at least not in the States.
I've never ridden a Quota, so for what its worth: I bought my R100GS to ride to Alaska. Then I was going to sell it. In 1992. The Harleys are gone. The Hondas are gone. The Suzuki is gone. The Yamaha is gone. I still have the old BMW. Rode it today. Lovely motorbike.
Thanks! Did some searching and I see what you mean. That does look more like a 1990 model. Seller is being a bit odd with communication ... we'll see where this goes.
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Thanks! Did some searching and I see what you mean. That does look more like a 1990 model. Seller is being a bit odd with communication ... we'll see where this goes.
Whoops a 1991 or so. At some point they had some art deco grey on the red/white scheme that looked a bit ugly. Certainly not an 88-90.
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Whoops a 1991 or so. At some point they had some art deco grey on the red/white scheme that looked a bit ugly. Certainly not an 88-90.
Here's a pic from their 1993 catalog. Shows the 'art deco' pebble paint job. Not a fan of it, either.
Bob
(https://i.ibb.co/NpbmZZT/011-1993-BMW-R100-GSPD.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NpbmZZT)
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The PD was first available in 89. You never know with the way DMVs processed titles in those days. It could be an early build in late 88 and licensed as an 88 when in fact it's an 89. And yes, it's the early version, not a 91-5.
And even if it's an 88 converted with the PD bodywork, it looks like it was done well. The only difference between the GS and PD is bodywork. Check up on the cost of that tank alone! And that small tachometer? They are SCARCE, and at least $400 when one does show up.
I've had both the GS and the PD - love the PD and that's what stuck with me. Go check it out and let us know how it goes. What's the asking price?
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The PD was first available in 89. You never know with the way DMVs processed titles in those days. It could be an early build in late 88 and licensed as an 88 when in fact it's an 89. And yes, it's the early version, not a 91-5.
And even if it's an 88 converted with the PD bodywork, it looks like it was done well. The only difference between the GS and PD is bodywork. Check up on the cost of that tank alone! And that small tachometer? They are SCARCE, and at least $400 when one does show up.
I've had both the GS and the PD - love the PD and that's what stuck with me. Go check it out and let us know how it goes. What's the asking price?
Thanks. It does have the "older" dash, looks like 91+ got the "newer" dash (maybe).
It has 45K miles and he is asking $5500. Seller has only sent me one odd terse response, so not sure what is up. And the ad barely has any info in it. Hopefully I can get some more info/details.
From looking around at similar year R100 bikes, I see clutch, transmission rebuild, or drive shaft replacement happening between 40,000 - 120,000 miles. And valve train work between 60,000 - 120,000 miles. From your experience, do most of them need that at the higher end of that range?
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The PD was first available in 89. You never know with the way DMVs processed titles in those days. It could be an early build in late 88 and licensed as an 88 when in fact it's an 89. And yes, it's the early version, not a 91-5.
And even if it's an 88 converted with the PD bodywork, it looks like it was done well. The only difference between the GS and PD is bodywork. Check up on the cost of that tank alone! And that small tachometer? They are SCARCE, and at least $400 when one does show up.
I've had both the GS and the PD - love the PD and that's what stuck with me. Go check it out and let us know how it goes. What's the asking price?
The PD parts were available as a kit in 1989. They should fit a 1988 or '89. There first factory PD was 1990 in the US.
Regardless, the bike seems reasonably priced. Obviously would require more investigation. If the seller is being weird......maybe not worth the time. OTOH riders of old BMW's are almost as quirky as Guzzi riders :smiley:
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From looking around at similar year R100 bikes, I see clutch, transmission rebuild, or drive shaft replacement happening between 40,000 - 120,000 miles. And valve train work between 60,000 - 120,000 miles. From your experience, do most of them need that at the higher end of that range?
Driveshaft replacement is indeed 40-120K miles but usually in the lower end of that range. The one on my current bike did make it to something like 80K.
Mine broke the gear shifter spring at maybe 70K miles or so, requiring disassembly, and got a new clutch at the same time.
Valve job on a R100GS (so ‘88 or later) is at something like 100-120K miles. Early ‘80s bikes had issues.
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The R80G/S was produced as a Paris/Dakar model in 85 and 86 - maybe as early as 84. But they weren't documented as Paris/Dakar models on the Vin or anything. It was possible to buy the tank and seat and convert them.
When the GS came along they didn't have the PD kit the first year or two. So the early version GS got the PD kit first in 89. There were two years of PDs in the early version. I'm not positive the 89 was a factory PD, but that's the data I have.
The early version red/white PD says Paris Dakar diagonally across the tank. The Paris Dakar organization sued BMW for using their name without approval, so the subsequent versions only said PD across the tank.
That early PD is a gorgeous bike. For $5500 it's well worth a look. Low miles too!
Yeah, those are about the mileages to expect. You might beat the odds with frequent oil changes and good treatment. Don't over-heat it - in hot weather take frequent breaks. That sort of thing.
With the driveshaft, it's a crap shoot. Supposedly it was originally designed for an oil bath swingarm like earlier airheads, but, as the story goes, engineers (lawyers?) nixed that with concerns about the rear boot leaking and fouling the brake. Early photos show bosses where the fill and drain plugs were to go.
Guys have tried leaving a few tablespoons of oil in the swingarm, but then the concern is the joining material of the two-piece drive shaft. It's some sort of urethane or something like that and is designed to absorb shocks and could be harmed by hot oil.
And then it's been said that it really needs CV joints rather than U Joints. But there are no CV joints that small.
To add to the problems, a circlip was left out of the trans output shaft from about 85 to 94. Because of that, the driving helical gear on the output shaft can walk, which puts pressure on the bearing causing its failure. It's something to keep track of, and the recommendation is to replace the clip next time in there, rather than making a special trip in just for that.
With all that in mind, you must have gotten the idea us GS lovers are some kind of addicted to put up with all that. And, you're right.
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Owned my 1991 R100GS for the past 23 years. Purchased in 1997 with 6,000 miles and currently has 95,500
Converted to a PD with larger tank and side panels. Left the lower front fender. Motorrad of St. Louis advertised them for sale in the MOA back in the day
Some items over the years:
Replaced Veleo starter with Nipo Denso since the Veleo's had a habit of having their magnets unglue
Two transmission rebuilds- first tranny detonated due to lack of circlip in Sturgis SD of all places- Harley guys were amused. Subsequent rebuild was preventative maintenance/bearing refresh
Lots of charging upgrades, Original Diode board upgrade, Omega, Enduralast- might end up going back to stock tired of em all really. They all have quirks and Achilles heals
Ignition: running an Alpha for the past 20k miles but again, may go back to a rebuilt stock "bean can"
Fourth Driveshaft- Back in the day Eric Demant, a German fellow was the go to guy for greasable U joints on the driveshaft- I ran one of his without the rubber piece It was just one straight shaft welded with care. Currently run Ted Porters latest generation rebuildable/greasable drive shaft- runs great /no issues
Relocated the oil cooler to the center, eliminated the exhaust collector box, air tubes and emission solenoids "accidentally" have fallen off, dual headlights etc.
Quarky Bikes but we're all kind of used to that.
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Mike, I recall when St Louis Motorrad sold the GS - to - PD kits. I've replaced many of the same components as you have:
- Starter from Motorrad Elektrik - I think its based on Nippon Denso.
- Tranny has been out for bearings 2x. Locally, could find no one had done the clip install, so at 158k, bearing replacement/shift items/no
clip.
- Still on original diode board (!)
- Running Alpha ignition since 140k, ok with it. Still have un-rebuilt bean can and oem ignition module.
- Driveshafts: original to 120k, repaired original to 155k (shot!) Not an Eric D. Installed oem shaft at 155k. Should outlast me!
- valves,guides,springs,rings - hyd brake rebuild 129k
- clutch plate/diaphragm spring at 70k and again at 155k
Yep, same fate befell my air tubes and solenoids also.
Did you have your collector box made for you, or find an aftermarket one?
Regards,
Bob
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Nice! Just get it.
Agreed....that a nice one! JUST GET IT...and keep the Quota!! :thumb: :cool: :boozing: :wink: :smiley:
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Thanks for for the awesome info!
Seller is strange ... still don't have any real info from him other than he still has it and can see my profile (no clue what that is about, might mean my profile is mostly empty (zero pictures) so maybe he thinks I look like a scammer or something?).
My questions were: How long have you owned it? Have you done any work to the drive shaft or clutch or is that all original?
So ... not looking good for buying it if I can't even get any info other than the pics and mileage and probably an incorrect year model listed.
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another happy 1990 r100gspd owner here too. perfect compliment for my lemans. the bike does everything, yes, a bit quirky, but fun and totally utilitarian. hopefully you can reach the owner. I see it has Jesse luggage too which is a plus and an upgraded shock
(https://i.ibb.co/7pjwgNz/8-BBC431-D-7071-461-E-8-C4-B-3361-A36-C5-DA7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7pjwgNz)
rainy day hd images (https://imgbb.com/)
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Just make an appointment to go see it!
The Ohlins and Jesse's easily add another $1000 to the value.
Just go there and THEN ask the questions.
He probably doesn't even really want to sell it and is having second thoughts.
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Did you have your collector box made for you, or find an aftermarket one?
Hey Bob- looked back through my invoices- The piece was marketed as a Y pipe made by Keihan. Purchased from Bobs BMW back in 2003
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I'm guessing he got tons of msgs about it? Not sure. To date I have 6 words of responses from him! :laugh:
I'm passing on it. Too strange an interaction for me. Maybe he is tired of people msging him, I don't know, but I'm done with it. Kind of sad, seems like it could have been a fun bike to own.
Thanks to all the BMW knowledgeable people that jumped in and provided some excellent info!
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Aw - you give up too easy!
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I'm guessing he got tons of msgs about it? Not sure. To date I have 6 words of responses from him! :laugh:
I'm passing on it. Too strange an interaction for me. Maybe he is tired of people msging him, I don't know, but I'm done with it. Kind of sad, seems like it could have been a fun bike to own.
Thanks to all the BMW knowledgeable people that jumped in and provided some excellent info!
There's a bunch of them for sale. Maybe not as many PD versions as the GS. To hell with this one. Based on what you've said, probably a scam anyway. Want one? Find a seller that's willing to cooperate with you in the selling process.
Bob
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Yup. If you can't get a coherent response out of a seller, its time to move on. One thing about deals: there always be another one
(https://i.ibb.co/kQhdx9b/deal.gif) (https://imgbb.com/)