Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bikensail on October 03, 2020, 07:55:24 AM
-
I just test rode a V7iii and had concerns with the handling. I found it to be nimble at parking lot speed but it tended to "stand up" in corners at 40-50 mph. The tip in was normal but rather than a nice progressive increase in lean angle from there it would require a noticeable effort past that.
Immediately following that ride I took out a V85TT. It was totally different, being quicker to turn in and instilling confidence in its linear and neutral leaning at any speed.
-
I have a 2015 V7 and have not noticed the phenomena you mentioned.
I do know from many posts on this forum that changing the V7III tires to Conti Road Attack III is transformative regarding handling, and I am looking forward to having them on my bike for the next set of tires.
Also, welcome to the forum. Please take a moment to introduce yourself in the Introductions thread at the top of the forum.
-
Welcome to the forum.
I am really pleased with the predictable way my V7 handles but I'm sure if I was coming from a modern crotch rocket it would be quite scary.
I was reasonably happy with the tires fitted as new but i'm now running Avon Roadrunners.
-
I would also say that if you initial impressions of the V85 are more favorable that might be the most successful path.
If I had the leg length to easily mount and dismount a V85, I would probably have one. I very much enjoyed my test ride.
-
I really liked the V85 but it is too close in function to my KTM which is a perfect on/offroad adventure tourer. I want what I feel the V7 is designed to be, and can modify it in many ways. However, a slow steering chassis geometry is not one of them if it is really the case.
-
I just test rode a V7iii and had concerns with the handling. I found it to be nimble at parking lot speed but it tended to "stand up" in corners at 40-50 mph. The tip in was normal but rather than a nice progressive increase in lean angle from there it would require a noticeable effort past that.
Immediately following that ride I took out a V85TT. It was totally different, being quicker to turn in and instilling confidence in its linear and neutral leaning at any speed.
Were the tires at correct pressures? Your description doesn't match my experience. The OE Pirelli's aren't very good, however. A set of Conti radials will transform the steering and handling, and take the edge off the OE suspension's harshness.
The V85 is a completely different motorcycle so, yes, it behaves differently.
-
I agree, bet it was low tire pressure. Could you do another test ride and check the pressure before the ride?
My v7iii does not handle like you described.
-
I know that the II and the III have different rakes. Keeping that in mind, I’ve allowed a couple people to test ride my V7 II, And every time, the response was that cornering was a bit difficult. I disagree, and think that it comes down to how one is accustomed to using their arms and body to control the bike. If the V7 III is at all like the II, it seems to require a little more hugging up and deliberate maneuvering, like I imagine a cruiser does. In other words, the “flickability” is there, but requires an adjustment in muscle memory.
-
This doesn't compute to me either but there are a few possible reasons:
* Something wrong with the bike (like tire pressure or steering head bearing)
* Differences in tires.
* Differences in expectations.
* You're a dandy (just kidding, sorta). Weight distribution, your size, etc.
I mean I don't think our Ducati turns in any easier than our V7s, but I also think our V7's are downright nimble.
Hell I think my RK turns in with ease.
Could be perspective, or I'm not a dandy (still kidding, mostly).
-
i own the v85. last weekend at a rally, i test rode a v7 racer, the one with the ohlins rear shocks. i really liked it, but it did not have quite the confidence inspiring handling as the v85. i won't say it was bad because i was not familiar with it, but i don't think the standard tires are great. i loved the engine smoothness though, especially at 5,000 rpm, almost ethereally smooth.
-
Not on mine (2019).
The V7 III (2700 miles) is nimble for me at that speed range. I find myself using my butt to steer the V7 most of the time between 40 and 60 mph.
The rear tire chicken-strip is less than 1/2" on both sides and I was riding comfortably.
When I picked up the V7 III, both tires were under inflated at around 25 psi, but I did not notice anything handling issue on my ride home (mostly freeway).
Some people suggested to raise the front tubes 10 ~ 20 mm from the tree to help turning in the corner, but I have not done that.
-
Thanks everyone for your thorough replies. I am relieved to hear that this isn't an underlying handling trait. The bike was a 2020 demo and it could well have had under inflated tires.
I feel better in continuing to look for a V7 to complement my KTM 790 Adventure.
-
Just another vote for "that doesn't sound right". My V7II handles very nicely and is quite competent and predictable in its cornering. And yes, the Conti Road Attack III's are completely transformative on these bikes. I have never experienced such a dramatic transformation in a bike with tires alone, and if I had known how good they were, I would have had them fitted before taking delivery of they bike. Sort of like getting a full top end suspension upgrade for the cost of a set of tires.
-
I found the steering head bearing tension way too tight on my used V7 II. It wanted to stand up in corners, wagged at pavement seams, required constant correction at parking lot speed, and wove its way coasting to a slow stop. Backing off the tension remedied all these things. I can hardly wait to get rid of the Sport Demons.
Sarah
-
My Norge does the same as the tyres get near the end.
You need a lot of “down bar” at suburban speeds and it loses it’s neutrality. The higher speed handling does not suffer as badly though.
A new set of Pilot 5’s makes it feel brand new again..
-
the stock tires are straight line only IMHO! It needs radials.
it takes 10 minutes on a III to drop the fork tubes. drop 12MM and you will only have to do it once. It's then a whole new bike.
-
What Vagrant said!
My 2017 V7 III racer/poser handled badly out of the crate. The suggestion to pull the fork tubes up 12 - 15mm made the difference.
As noted herein: front end geometry is very different on the three series, along w/many other subtle improvements.
Depending how the 'factory' installed the wiring harness the clutch lever may be 'heavy' (tight radius cable bend), and the wire loom
will likely go betwixt the top & bottom steering head clamps; limiting the amount of change.
My bike came with Pirelli Demons. I've used them for several years on 2 stroke race bikes, on the street. Good stuff, in my view.
They do wear faster. R3~
-
Small changes to the rotation of the handlebar can have an effect on that
Experiment
Rolled forward/upwards
Rolled backwards/downwards
You are playing w arm length and posture
I recently moved mine forward and immediately found i tended to pull on the opposite bar while tipping into a curve
Lowered them and found it wanted a push on the bar forward in the direction of the turn and took less effort
Just the bar rotation made the difference
Some guzzi bars place the grips at 90 degrees to the fork
Other models place the grips parallel to the ground..one never knows the set up made w a demo
The brochure for the V700 has them rotated above parallel to the ground...quite a ways up
Small changes one a time and you can feel a difference
-
CP -- great information. Thanks.
-
Small changes to the rotation of the handlebar can have an effect on that
Experiment
Rolled forward/upwards
Rolled backwards/downwards
You are playing w arm length and posture
I recently moved mine forward and immediately found i tended to pull on the opposite bar while tipping into a curve
Lowered them and found it wanted a push on the bar forward in the direction of the turn and took less effort
Just the bar rotation made the difference
Some guzzi bars place the grips at 90 degrees to the fork
Other models place the grips parallel to the ground..one never knows the set up made w a demo
The brochure for the V700 has them rotated above parallel to the ground...quite a ways up
Small changes one a time and you can feel a difference
Damn. Thanks for that excellent information. As I have been trying to hone my very rusty riding skills, I have been noticing how I tend to use both hands, one pulling the other pushing, and have been making a conscious effort to try to push only. I have already rotated my bar back closer to me a bit, but may try a little more following this post.
👍
-
Well I liked what you guys had to say and bought a 2018 Milano. I am loving it. Thanks.
-
I found the steering head bearing tension way too tight on my used V7 II. It wanted to stand up in corners, wagged at pavement seams, required constant correction at parking lot speed, and wove its way coasting to a slow stop. Backing off the tension remedied all these things. I can hardly wait to get rid of the Sport Demons.
Sarah
My V711 had overtight steering head bearings from new.
When I mentioned it to the salesman he said “yeh our demo bike had tight bearings as well”
It made a huge difference when I adjusted them.
All of a sudden I had a light responsive bike instead of a vague feeling one.
Cheers, voncrump
-
Well I liked what you guys had to say and bought a 2018 Milano. I am loving it. Thanks.
Congrats! I love mine.
Raising the front forks around 10 - 15 mm will do wonders for the front end feel and help steering. As well as setting up the suspension properly.
(https://i.ibb.co/z5ftRQc/20201016-105935.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z5ftRQc)
-
I should have added that the main reason for the issue was the new tires. The bike I bought did the same thing until I ran it through the mountains and broke in the tires. It is fine now. I am going to try raising the forks as suggested also.
-
That 1/2" I went with made a world of difference to the way mine handles.
-
Congrats to the OP for getting the Milano. I have an '18 Special, and found the handling to be just fine.
When the original tires got thin, I replaced with the Conti Road Attach 3's, and as a previous responder mentioned, they noticeably improve the handling of the bike. I've ridden since the 60's, but have never been an aggressive rider or particularly sensitive to handling issues, but immediately noticed improved handling with the 3's. The bike always felt like it was on rails in a curve, but the new tires make it even more predictable in the curves.
Hope you enjoy your Milano!
-
When the tires are used up get Conti RA3's. BIG improvement.
-
When the tires are used up get Conti RA3's. BIG improvement.
As a fellow northeasterner, curious how long it took you to wear out those so-so Demons? Or maybe you were on something else prior to the Conti's?
-
My rear Demon was toast at 2500 miles the front lasted until 5200. At about 4500 miles the front started giving me some shake in fast bumpy curves. not terrible but it went away with a set of Conti RA3's. :thumb: After 800 miles on the Contis, I have to say I prefer them.
I never had a big problem with the Demons other than the head shake at the end of life on the front.
-
Thanks for that! I find them just a bit more squirrelly than I'd like, especially on colder and rougher roads.
-
I put Conti Road Attack 3's on my Racer at around the 3,000 mile mark (stock tires were worn to tread wear indicators).
I had heard of all the transformation the Conti tires make, did not really believe it, but oh my, it is true! So then I felt dumb for waiting 3000 miles to do it. Looking back, I would have asked the dealer to put them on before I picked it up. Why waste 3000 miles with the stock tires. Swap them out as soon as you can!
-
I raised the fork tubes 12 mm as suggested and it did improve the front end feel. However I had to raise the front of the bike back up because of ground clearance. I find that the side stand touches down too early and this made it worse. What I gave up in lean angle was not worth it. I also have to run the preload in the shocks at higher than ideal for my weight to minimize this. BTW I measured the sag in the forks to be right on for my 190 lbs with all gear and tool kit, etc.
-
Well I liked what you guys had to say and bought a 2018 Milano. I am loving it. Thanks.
Well done. Enjoy your new ride.
I was about to comment that your comments did not compute either.
I don't know what tires you have on it. I will say my Breva (bought from new 2003) came with the Demons, and other than the rear wearing out quickly I thought for an OEM they could have been worse. I was given a loaner Breva to ride while the shop did a warranty on it; this was fitted with Bridgestone BT45s, and I HATED how the front felt, or in actuality, how it didn't feel. Due to running out of tire in godforsaken places, I now have a Metzeler Roadtec on the front and a Metzeler MZ2 steel belted radial on the rear, and I must say the bike feels much more planted than it did with the Sport Demons. Cornering is neutral and it is a barrel of laughs in the twisties. :thumb:
-
As the OP of this thread I thought I should close out by saying that I followed suggestions and threw away the Demons and put RA3's on. I agree with everyone who said that the difference is astounding. The handling is better but the main change is that the tires absorb the roughness in the road so much better. The bias Demons are like wood compared to the radial RA3's.
The bike enters corners easily and follows through neutrally. Really enjoyable. The side stand is the limiting factor.
I was convinced that I had to upgrade the suspension or sell the bike, and now it is fine. I will still upgrade to get a stiffer but more compliant ride but it isn't absolutely necessary.
-
Thank you for the feedback!
I'll have to look into a new pair of tyres too...
Cheers,
D.
-
Glad you're happy with the new tires. I changed to Pirellis shortly after buying the bike.
The correct spring rate is also a biggie. At 200lbs I found the springs too soft and I'd blow through the travel. .95 Kg springs in the front and taller/stiffer Hagon shocks on the back made a big difference. Being 40mm longer than OEM also helps the ride height and sharpened the steering too.
(https://i.ibb.co/55chqHf/20200416-115900.jpg) (https://ibb.co/55chqHf)
-
V7III handling will also benefit from some better shocks and upgrades to the forks.
Rich A
-
Oh yea. Hamlin had that DIALED in big time. He really knows his stuff on those bikes.
-
A follow up: Besides pulling the tubes up I had K-Tech frt. suspension added b4 delivery.
Pirelli demons stick like snot and do well on crumbly and/or wet pavement.
My only problem with that bike is weight - the bikes'! It's obvious that I have aged out of bikes weighing very near 500#.
4 sale. '17 Racer, w/out looking like a racer. Brembo Radial mc and 4 pot radial caliper. 7800 miles. Further details and pictures? PM through WG.
R3~